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To all,
I am too tired of the fight. The stock is no good, and Steven can't make it profitable. Instead of trying to convince those who remain, I'd rather simply cash out and move forward with whatever is left.
The technicals aren't there. The partners aren't users. The TCG isn't using and deploying. EDS is now owned by HP. The Fed has bought nothing from Wave and we are at the end of Q4. The market sucks, and there's simply no good news on the horizon.
CFBE will not occur in Q1 or Q2, because I say so! And my word is better than Steven's.
Good luck to you all. I will stay in touch. And I will take my position out slowly, so as not to upset anyone. And, I am sad that this day has come.
Who knows. Maybe when I get out, things will finally pick up.
Best of Luck to you all,
Tampa123
Nothing spells good news these days for Wave
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/intel-hitachi-unveil-solid-state-drive/story.aspx?guid={66E7495F-D5A3-4DDC-B329-B67BF0CDFA89}&siteid=yhoof
Intel, Hitachi unveil solid-state drive venture
By Benjamin Pimentel, MarketWatch
Last update: 5:59 p.m. EST Dec. 2, 2008Comments: 15SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Shares of Intel Corp. rose more than 5% Tuesday after the chip giant unveiled a joint venture with Hitachi Global Storage Technologies to make solid-state drives for business computers.
Intel (INTC:Intel Corporation
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Last: 13.28+0.72+5.73%
4:00pm 12/02/2008
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INTC 13.28, +0.72, +5.7%) rose 5.7% to close at $13.28 after unveiling the pact, which will develop the drives for use in computer servers, work stations and storage systems.
The move highlights an industry-wide push toward solid-state drives, which are more expensive than the more commonly used hard-disk drives, but are also considered more energy-efficient and stable.
Analyst Roger Kay of Endpoint Technologies Associates said the joint venture is significant as it signals the competitive expansion of solid-state drive technology into other areas.
The steady decline in the prices of NAND Flash technology, triggered by a market glut, has made solid-state drive systems less expensive. Other tech companies, such as EMC Corp. (EMC:EMC Corporation
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EMC 10.40, +0.27, +2.7%) and Samsung, also offer Flash memory systems for business computers.
Kay said Intel's move could be a strategic step to prevent Samsung (SSNLF:SSNLF
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SSNLF, , ) from taking a more dominant position in that market. But the move also could mean trouble for traditional hard disk drive makers, such as Seagate Technology (STX:seagate technology shs
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STX 4.31, +0.46, +12.0%) and Western Digital (WDC:Western Digital Corporation
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WDC 11.96, +1.18, +11.0%) (WDC:Western Digital Corporation
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WDC 11.96, +1.18, +11.0%) , he added.
"Because Flash prices are coming down, larger drives are feasible, and not just for price-insensitive customers," he said. "Ultimately, this development spells trouble for the hard-drive guys, who have maintained up through now that they will remain king at the high end."
He added: "Intel-Hitachi are showing that solid-state drives can be viable in more general applications. Since solid-state drives are more sturdy, use less power, and run faster, the only thing wrong with them is that they are more expensive. As prices ameliorate, there's no reason not to convert more and more applications over to solid-state storage."
Intel and Hitachi plan to make their first products available in early 2010, the companies announced.
The new systems will be branded and exclusively sold and supported by Hitachi GST and use Intel's NAND Flash memory and solid-state drive technology.
Analyst Brian Piccioni of BMO Capital Markets said that financially the deal may not have that much of an impact although he added that Intel "has a big stake in increasing solid-state drive penetration."
Benjamin Pimentel is a MarketWatch reporter based in San Francisco.
RWK - Rhetorical statement of gloom. Not a math problem statement of fact. When do you see us getting to 1.36?
khal04 - Not until you get someone who can manage the company to such, instead of just the tech.
This is not the kind of progress that anyone could find encouraging. You don't get to cash flow breakeven with this progress until 2019
How about coming up with their own killer app instead of trying to have it mandated by the government. We've only had 15 years to come up with one
internet - for the Feds to start adopting Wave, Wave needs to get FIPS compliant. The Fed takes very little that is not working from industry standards ~ IMO
khal04 - I really meant just their european office, even though EMEA stands for Europe, Middle East and Africa
barge - yep. let's see how that goes, and what his word means.
I'm really hoping you're right.
barge - I don't disagree with any of your opinions regarding TVTonic ~ except I have lost some faith in Steven. I believe that while he may be a very smart man, he hasn't shown me that he's a really smart busniessman
There is a difference ~ and Steven is proving that difference every quarter that he fails to hit his targets, and continues to dilute investors. At some point, you have to stop blaming everything and everyone else, and look in a mirror.
His company is struggling. Has anyone checked? I believe that Steven may even have closed down his EMEA office. I haven't confirmed, but the rumors are out there.
trustcousa - I can't tell you whether I'm more tired of the question, or the answer after all of these years. But I don't think that CFBE should even be discussed on this board anymore until Wave actually hits it ~ whenever that is.
That could make things awfully quiet around here for a while.
TPT - Lots of questions. Never any answers
TPT - They have nothing to give us, and have had nothing to give us for several millions of dollars now. Unfortunately, those millions have come out of many of our wallets.
I'm afraid that even the most optimistic long has to admit that there has been ample time for Wave to prove out its business plan. There has been ample time for Wave to find someone more recognizable than Papa Ginos to carry their upgrade flag. There has been ample time for Wave to convince someone/anyone in the TCG that using Wave's solution to securely manage their keys was a good thing. I could go on, and on, and on...
However, it simply comes down to the very simple fact that there has been ample time. We are now going through a 3rd rough period for the market since 2000. It has now been almost 2-years since Steven first mentioned Cash flow break even. And I have not seen or heard anything that would lead me to believe that Wave will become CFBE sometime this year either. Progress is not a secret!
If there were something to hear, we'd hear it loud and clear. What we are hearing clearly here, is that Wave's dependency on the the giants educating the markets, selling to the markets and distributing the chips to the markets has still not been good enough to get the market to turn on better security.
My investment in Wave has sunk lower than I ever thought it could go. Complaints on this board no longer could affect the share price any more than Steven and Wave has already. I will hold on. But only because holding on allows me to save face with the many I've convinced to spend their money on Wave over the years.
may1sep2 - Only Wave's performance (financial) is helpful or hurtful to Wave's apprearance. Nothing we say on this board makes a bit of difference. But I'll let whomever you wanted to answer to answer for themself.
If Wave was selling millions of upgrades, and WXP was bought out for $50 million, I could sit here and whine all day and the stock price would still go up IMO.
To that end, I can't see the share price of Wave going down for any other reason, other than complete lack of performance, and revenues. So, anyone can say as many nice things about Wave as they want to, and the reverse effect should also be true. The effect on Wave's appearance for saying nice things is negligable, if not invisible.
That is why I find it facinating that we longs on this board haven't learned the difference betweeen a basher, or short-seller, and a loyal long who may just be venting some long-time held frustrations. I think the latter should always be tolerated, as long as there's respect in all directions for the remaining posters.
Just my opinion...
Best Regards,
T123
may1sep2 - I can not tell you of any good that comes from some of the statements made on this board. I can only summize that if the person is not short on Wave, then it might simply be an outlet for frustration.
To me, this is acceptable at times, as investments are not always sugar and spice... But, when it becomes a blatent attempt at starting an argument, then I believe it is unacceptable.
may1sep2 - given the amount of years that Wave has been steadily on the decline - almost 8+ years now - we should be glad that people are still posting anything on this board, because the company hasn't given us one tangible investment reason for continuing to do so. I would guess that if those not so heavily leveraged in Troux had the opportunity to get out at even a breakeven for what they've invested over the years, this board would be a ghost town compared to what it is currently.
I have also seen many implicit links posted that try to connect Wave to something that they might be doing, considered doing, should be doing or eluded to doing in years past.
They are often as frustrating and/or untrustworthy as someone's opinion. At least without the link, I can assume it's an opinion. When someone provides a link to something they believe Wave MIGHT be doing, that's when it gets hard to be as tolerant IMO.
Regards,
T123
tkc ~ it may surprise you, but I respectfully disagree.
If, and I say IF Wave can justify their spend as contributing to near-term revenues, then I believe that spend is justifiable. In normal circumstance, I would also include mid-term in that. But since Wave's mid-term has far come-and-gone, then either they can justify their spend and their borrowing habits, or they cant.
It all depends on how we shareholders hold their feet to the fire on the CCs. If we ask the wrong questions, we deserve what we get ~ nothing to hang our hat on. Those days are over. The 'next 2 quarter' days are over.
Wave will see a mass exodus if they do not make CFBE this year. It's as simple as that ~~~~~~ they have this year to make good IMO
player1234 ~ agreed. EOM
1260 - Nope. Didn't miss it. I just disagree. It's okay to disagree.
Regards,
1260 - That's simply not a true statement IMO.
Find the right replacements, and a company often times does much better than it did prior.
barge - It's the "Well-funded" part of the description I have issues with.
Snackman ~ Re: The Ugly
I want to offer up my opinion, as being my opinion only.
The Wave team has (as you said) done a phenomenal job building and evangelizing a whole paradigm shift ~ no question about that. And, as you said, they should be properly compensated for that ~ and I believe they have.
So there's no issue there.
However, there comes a time in every company's history where 'Crossing the Chasm' from the early adopters over to winning over the pragmatisits is critical for the success of your business. In many cases, the visionaries that got the company to the chasm, are not the same leaders that are able to help the company cross the chasm.
As an investment, it is well past the time when this company needed to begin monetizing their business plan. At some point, it has very little to do with the partners you keep, or the platforms you support, or even the people you excite about your product. At some point, it's a dollars and cents game. Meaning, if they make no dollars, we have no cents continuing to invest in them.
Everyone who is still in this investment has demnstrated patience. Many times over. But when you base your whole revenue stream, for all of your products/services on the simple premise that if your prospects begin to turn on the TPM chip, and use it ~ you make money. And if they don't ~ you make no money, then you are risking your whole business on the adoption and use of the TPM by your target audience.
Someone, and I repeat, SOMEONE needs to figure out a way to make that an imperative, critical need. All of us can think of a couple of generic ideas for that:
1. Create something (like a cell phone) that every person needs, but it only works if you turn on the chip and begin to manage keys.
2. Give the upgrades away to 1 high-profile, F100 company and allow them to deploy and use it for the first 3-years free, as long as for every year it works as promised, the company allows more and more PRs to be released about how satisfied they are ~ kind of like Papa Ginos on a bigger scale.
3. Partner with a reputable SaaS vendor (i.e. Salesforce.com) that could benefit by the use of TPM Key Management, and begin to build up add-on applications, and/or hooks into every business via features and functionality that only work when the TPM chip is used.
Some of these might be far-fetched, but you get the point. That point being, that someone (in Wave) needs to find the killer 'use-cases' for the TPM-Chip, and then work to develop these biz-dev relationships for that, instead of just building the field of dreams and hoping people will come.
I feel like they've now been compensated for building the playground. But what they need now, is to invent or find the games that everyone wants to play, but can only be played on that field. This is where the ball is being dropped. This is where new ideas, new relationships and YES new blood in some areas is not only called for, but appropriate at this point.
T123
Best Option ~ Make lots of money
thanks for that weatervane. Have a nice day
So Weby ~ allow me to add my observations.
I see a company that has worked with the TCG for several years now. I see many large companies that have joined that organization. And, while I realize that Steven says these are Standards guys, not Marketing guys ~ The TCG should have been able to figure out how to get to the Marketing arms of these companies long before now. Any one of them coming out and adopting this technology would be huge.
Next, I see a company that is in need of its own Killer App to unleash its Killer App. By that I mean that Wave seems to be waiting for that cool, "everybody's gotta have it" (ala the iPod, or online gaming, or salesforce.com) application that essentially cries out for trusted computing, and for everyone to turn on their trusted platform module chips, and begin to exchange keys. In this, I find it extremely difficult to imagine the likes of Wave, Microsoft, Seagate, Dell and 100s of other TCG companies not being able to come up with a single compelling usage for this technology that would make it, not only a self-marketing machine, but a must-have for everyone. As this appears to be what is holding back the adoption, then who among us has a reasonably sound Killer App in our back pocket ~ if not Microsoft, or the Credit Card Companies?
Finally, I feel that the education aspect of this enterprise has been over-played quite a bit, and begs our patience a bit too long. The government knows it has the computers, and the need. Wave could have given free use of their technology to the DoD, and seen better adoption rates everywhere else by now.
The education, selling, proof-of-concept, and procurement phases that Wave has been speaking of for the past 2-3 years doesn't take this long (does in Fed, not in commercial market) if you know how to build a user base. Having Dell should create an immediate user-base. Having 1-large European Bank from the Societie that they used to say they had would do it also. If Wave isn't establishing clear success-factors to buy for these customers, then they have no one to blame (at this point) but themselves. I don't buy the fact that Wave couldn't have converted multiple large players by now, using existing partners and TCG acquantences. Raising the issue all of the time (as Steven said) isn't forceful enough. Go get enough money to spend on taking the story to the Marketing arms of the TCG members if you have to. Stop nickel and diming yourself if this is an inevitable adoption.
If it is, all you're doing is investing in the acceleration of this adoption.
There are some things I hear that I understand. There are some things that I hear that after this long, simply don't add up in my experience. And there are some things that simply cry out for new blood in certain aspects of the business. As we all say, "Only Time Will Tell"
Well I think it's telling us a lot ~ we're just not listening very well.
My best regards to you and your wife,
Tampa123
as always, implying that only those who think the same process correctly.
There's simply nothing more to say these days. The numbers will speak to the health of Wave. The rest is all just fluff, and excuses.
See you at 4:30 on the call
NetFlix Streaming Video and Microsoft XBOX 360
http://seekingalpha.com/article/88757-netflix-lg-reveal-streaming-capable-blu-ray-dvd-player?source=yahoo
Netflix, LG Reveal Streaming Capable Blu-Ray DVD Player
by: Seth Gilbert posted on: August 04, 2008 | about stocks: DELL / LPL / NFLX Font Size: PrintEmail In January, Netflix (NFLX) announced the first of several ambitious partnerships to integrate the software behind their “Watch Now” streaming video service into TV-connected consumer electronics. The deal, they revealed just prior to the Consumer Electronics show, was with LG (LPL) for a set-top box. At the time, the battle for next-gen DVD standards was still ongoing so it was unclear if “set top box” meant we might see a DVD player (HD DVD or Blu-ray) or some other device. Little clarifying information was provided. Today, long after the standards war ended, the mail-order DVD pioneer and the South Korean electronics giant filled in the blanks with detail.
Coming this fall, LG will begin selling a Blu-ray DVD player that is jointly capable of streaming Netflix movies via the Internet and playing traditional or Blu-ray discs.
Labeled the LG BD300, the player will allow existing Netflix subscribers to browse their rental queues and stream on-demand movies from the more than 12k titles in the “Watch Now” catalog (Netflix has more than 100k titles in its rental catalog but so far has only been able to secure licenses to stream a fraction of them).
As with Netflix's other consumer electronics partnerships, beyond monthly membership dues, there will be no additional charge to use the streaming service nor will there be a quota on how many movies are streamed.
The LG BD300 will be the third consumer electronics product to bring the Netflix internet service directly to the television. Netflix recently announced a partnership that integrates “Watch Now” with Microsoft’s (MSFT) Xbox 360 gaming platform. They have already gone to retail with a $99 stand alone player made by Roku.
As with the other two devices, the LG DVD player appears to suffer from one small usability flaw that interferes with how viewers choose what titles to watch. Specifically, it appears viewers won’t be able to browse the entire Watch Now catalog through the player. Instead, they’ll need to first log into their accounts by computer and set up a queue of preferred titles (there are separate queues for mail order rentals and the Watch Now service). The Watch Now queue, which can be loaded with hundreds of titles, is the list of titles accessible via the set top players (Roku, LG BD300, etc).
The LG player is expected to be available at retail in September at a price “well below” $500.
In other consumer electronics news ….
Reports are continuing to trickle out about a planned Dell (DELL) MP3 player.
Dell was previously in the MP3 player business between 2003 and 2006 but failed to capture more than a few percentage points of U.S. market share.
The new effort, according to several reports including one in the Wall Street Journal, is part of a broader plan to integrate more home entertainment functionality into Dell PCs and across their product lineup.
The player will feature on board WiFi and content discovery/organizational software developed by Zing, a company Dell acquired last year.
One big question is whether the offering will add anything sufficiently unique to allow it to stand out from the already crowded marketplace or compete against Apple’s (AAPL) dominant iPod line up (Apple has more than a 70% share of the U.S. market).
Historically, Dell hasn’t fared well with expansion efforts outside of PC products. The first foray into MP3 players failed as did the company’s effort to sell TVs and hand-held mobile devices.
Report: Apple's new MacBooks won't have Intel chipsetsAtlanta Business Chronicle
Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 4:43 PM EDT
Print Email Reprints RSS Feeds Add to Del.icio.us Digg This CommentsApple Inc. may stop using chipsets developed by Intel Corp. and start again utilizing proprietary core-logic sets inside its Macintosh computers, according to a report.
The AppleInsider Web site reports that Cupertino-based Apple (NASDAQ: AAPL) could be using a chipset from a different company or an internally developed one in the next MacBook, which is expected to arrive in the next six or eight weeks.
Apple has been using Centrino chipsets from Santa Clara-based Intel (NASDAQ: INTC) in MacBooks since 2006 but won't be using the Montevina version of those chipsets, according to the report.
Separately, Computerworld has reported that the new MacBooks will arrive in September with glass touchpads.
http://atlanta.bizjournals.com/atlanta/stories/2008/07/28/daily44.html?ana=yfcpc
I don't know why you all ocntinue to dwell on the sale of WXP, when our success is based on other things. The sale of upgrade seats, and Seagate's progress in Dell laptop sales are much more important topics to discuss on a regular basis, than the diversion of the NBC Olympics.
While it is a noteworthy and significant event, it is not significant enough to cloud the real questions that Wave needs to answer over the next 2-quarters. If they don't begin to answer those questions this coming quarter, I believe the rest will become fodder for many new investors
T123
Somewhat OT - Did I do something wrong?
I am trying to get in touch with Steven Sprague, and sent an email to ssprague@wavesys.com ~ but got kicked out.
Do I have this wrong ~ it worked before?
Dory ~ No. But if I went by gut feel alone, I would probably be buying at these levels. It looks like a bargain to me.
helpful ~ assuming that logic always should prevail when it comes to the Federal Government is an assumption that has been proven wrong multiple times over.
However, assuming that the Federal Government has a predictable procurement schedule is a fair assumption. To that end, Q3 each year is their buying season ~ I'm sure you probably already knew that. So if there is going to be any meaningful purchases and/or announcements pertaining to Seagate, Enterprise Upgrade Seats, etc. it should occur within this quarter ~ or likely not at all the rest of this year.
My guess ~ we should see something.
Wildman262 - In absence of revenues to move the stock, what would you want Steven to do?
zen 88 - no that's not right. Re-read it. It says that the Olympic coverage will no longer be available for viewing once the Olmpics is over. Meaning, you need to watch it during the Olympics.
Not a complaint, but the $1 shr threshold will continuosly be pressured until revenues dictate otherwise ~ especially when shelf-registrations and/or PP continue to be the every quarter norm.
This has to stop. You'd have to be somewhat daffy not to recognize the parallels
BCaSE - IMO only, if one has to call tech-support every time one wants to find out how to do something, this business model will never (ever) get off the ground. The experience has to be seamless to the user ~ just go here, point and click, and you're in. It has to be that simple.
To figure out whether your computer is eligible for it is already too much for the average user. Many will say ~ I have a computer, I can download TVToninc, I have MS Media Center as my default ~ why doesn't it work? If the companies aren't clear on how this works, the masses will likely get confused, frustrated or mad if their configuration doesn't work right.
I know that you and I are not the average Joe-consumer here, and that we sometimes call these places just to see how tight the offering is. But there are many consumers that won't even bother.
may1sep2 ~ This isn't that new. My Blackberry Pearl from Verizon has GPS and tells me where to go ~ much like my wife does at times
weby ~ of course. Just to provide the right disclaimers, I can only say that I've heard from others that Wave has been in a company that I've spoken to.
I've never seen this occur first hand. So it's only hear-say, third party
Weby ~ I watch, I listen, and I speak to many of the same companies Wave does all of the time.
There are enough trials that have been run now for every company (big and small) to see the results of Wave's enterprise offering. This is being further accelerated by the Seagate relationship.
This is no longer a 2-quarter away company. It is happening now, and it will either succeed or fail based on activities happening as we post. The news should pick up. The deals should pick up. The revenues should pick up.
Significantly = success
Sporadically = failure by many at this point. Not just Wave.
Budgets are already planned. First test = Q3 for Fed space. That's when budgets begin to be spent in Fed. Wave and Seagate will either get their share or they won't.
I finally agree that it is now a binary proposition for Wave. Every quarter should improve from here, and every year-over-year earnings report should double for a little while.
Let's see what happens now!