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Mnuchin wants these assets for himself so much so, that he will linger until the last possible moment to find the 'edge' with which to take these companies into his own pocket. that was the game plan all along.
That's All Folks!
Rob, I commend you for your fortitude. I bet you garnered a huge dividend payout during the Halcion years until 2008.
Nice research.
Let's review where Fannie came from. FDR established the Federal National Mortgage Agency in 1935 in order to save the banks by buying up their nearly defaulted inventory of home mortgages. He saved the banks and the economy. For the next 38 years Fannie has backstopped the banking industry and stabilized home ownership in America. In 1973, President Nixon was struggling with stagflation. There was much ado about the national debt running amok. the solution, at the time, was to 'sell' Fannie to the public and turn this agency into a private corporation. The net effect of this machination was that about $50 Billion was remove from the national debt and transferred to the private sector. Everyone was happy with this arrangement as there was also a salutary side benefit of raising substantial sums for the Treasury in the IPO. Then...in 2008...you all know the rest.
Anyway, Freddie came along a little later to give the impression that Fannie was not a monopoly. Today the combined assets of these giant firms are in the hundreds of billions $s and they still provide an incomparable value to our national wealth and stability.
thank you Kip128932156. That's all that needs to be said about this case. If anyone reads this he can save 12 years of ihub postings.
Your post is THE BEST OF THE BEST that I've seen anywhere! Congrats!!!!!!
trunkmonk, I agree 100%
Mr. GHOST you make perfect sense. But, what about this insanity is sensible? Nevertheless, i agree with you.
kthomp19
"Nobody, and I mean nobody, in power cares one bit about current common shareholders. They have no power, no voice, and no vote in what happens."
'nuff said.
OH! Great Wise Man. I hope you are right!
955 I just re-read your wonderfu excerpts from Judge Sweeney's Court., way back in 2019. excellent summery and very revealing. should it only happen that her perceptions be part of her final decision.
Wise Man. Your dictionary definition of conservertorship is spot-on. The reason it has taken 12 years to finalize the escape route for F&F is that the lawyers have been looking for just the right clause in the FHA legalese that can be deliberately misconstrued to give the term a totally opposite meaning. They will write up a motion to the courts and ppfffettt! the 'conservertorship' changes its meaning to 'confiscationtorship'.
And that's how it's done in the US court system!!!
trunkmonk, I agree. Unfortunately, we are already a banana republic.
It's very simple...if this government continues to be operated by LOBBYISTs who dictate laws - I mean they actually present the congress with fait- accompli, completed text that become the law. how's that different than a banana republic?
The timeliness of F&F exit will depend on Trump's team whether they gauge that he will win or lose the election. If the prediction is a loss, F&F will be 'freed' (with strings attached). If a win, F&f will spend more years in purgatory, until they are subsumed by friends and family.
Hello, Hello, anybody here?
This stock took a crapper worst than others.
IS AIG taking it on the chin because they insure business for 'business interruption insurance'? Is this the fear? Or is it a big dump by institutions? What a shocker?
Skeptic7. SPOT ON!
I hate to disagree. Mnuchin and Calabria are on the same team. both are looking to extinguish shareholders. Period. No dilution. Just outright taking (stealing) it all away from the current shareholders. A complete 'Nationalization' of the entities, followed with a quick grab of the entire GSEs enchilada, all for their own personal qain. They are diligently working on some plot that completely circumvents the law and the courts. That is why it's taking them so long to execute the master plan. Trump is in on the deal and so are the courts. It is just a matter of time before some 'clever' lawyer finds a word or phrase that will let the compliant judge to declare all the shareholders claims as null and void. Didn't Bush Jr. do something similar by gifting Conrail to the chairman of CSX who was his secretary of commerce at the time? Strange and wonderful things happen to those who are greedy and powerful. Meet Mr. Mnuchin and friends!
Anyone who has lived through the 2008 crash knows that the powerful are busy plotting, sometime for years, to 'take down their prey'. Witness Lehman Brothers, Bear Sterns, Washington Mutual sagas and learn the lesson of power and greed.
Sorry folks, I'm lost!
Yes Wise Man, in the real world I would heap great praise on this gem of a find. To my great regret, we are living in Bizzaro-world where might is right, and big brother can and does what it pleases. The Fannigate story is still unfolding and the evil players are manipulating the rules to profiteer for themselves. No doubt the pusillanimous, inept, and toothless SEC will abide by every twist that our governing masters wish them to bend.
Every day that goes by without an outcry from the media, the courts, the legislator, and the public (other than here-present), is another nail in the coffin of capitalism and justice.
So, while I cheer you for this nugget of information, I am much too jades to give it even a smidgen of credibility.
ano, you did it again! I love it!!!
ano,KUDOS! GREAT DISTILLATION! IMPRESSIVE CONTRIBUTION!
Thank you 955! Can I call you "9"?
That was the most comprehensive collection of Judge Sweeny's open court remarks that I've ever seen. And I totally agree with your summation as to 911 and subsequent diminution of our freedom. Congrats!
There are way too many posting on this board for me to keep up with. maybe 50 or more a day. Some very smart people here, as well as, bulls and bears. I have been pondering as to who will be the ultimate buyer - or recipient, courtesy of the current gang of thieves in Washington. These entities are worth $Billions (I say, $Trillions)so, who has that kind of cash lying around. It came to me that Warren Buffet has a cash hoard of $128B, which is just about the number being banted about for the purchase of one of these outfits. Maybe this is completely out of the box thinking, but, I am beginning to have this vibe. Could be wrong, of course. food for thought. JMHO
Hi Brooge,I can't speculate on what motivates others to hold these shares. However, let me share with you some experiences that I have had with Hegies and pending Court results.
The Hegies are closely connected to each other and to Mnuchin and cohorts. Since the lawsuits are primarily funded by the same Hegies, they are in constant touch with the BIG BOYZ in Washington because they won't pursue a losing case by squandering millions in legal fees without knowing the outcome well before the public is informed. Thus, they will push the price of the commons to new heights just days before the Courts release their findings. If the Hegies are winning, everyone benefits. If, on the other hand, they find out that the fix is in, they will dump ALL their shares in a single trade and destroy the market in a matter of seconds. They are ruthless hyenas without a shred of community concern. Since they own so much, they can manipulate the price as they wish. And that is what I think has been happening all along.
Hi 5Bagger. I see two versions of my short blog. Were actually written 7 years apart? Personally, I have no concern about the shorts. What concerns me are the long term holders who trusted the American Capitalist system of private ownership. That is the foreboding that I was referring to. Anyway, thanks for putting these items together.
OK Amelia, we both on board with this conclusion. There are ten thousand more investors who think alike. Unfortunately, this board is full of Polly-annish dreamers who need to be reminded of this danger every so often.
This sounds very ominous. Mnuchin is hell-bent on destroying the shareholders and taking the companies for himself. By appointing an 'independent advisor' he passes muster with compliant Congress to Nationalize and obliterate the shareholders. Calabria is a lacky to implement this atrocity. That leaves the Courts. but they too are a sorry bunch of yes men. The judges' job is to find a loophole that justifies the robbery. This does not bode well!
Hi CatBird,
Why are Congressmen allowed to trade on inside confidential information? Calabria and friends are deliberately manipulating the stock value of F&F for their own benefit, Who knows what kind of shell games they are playing? Is there an ethics code for these gangsters or are they given free reins to profiteer off the public without oversight?
The SEC is an empty barrel of cronies, not in the least useful. Under Bush Jr., the SEC was guttered to a mere shell. Cox, who was put in charge, reduced the enforcement bureau to a mere 4 enforcers. When, in 2008, their computers were searched for ongoing investigations, they were found to be full of porn. Don't count on this agency to do anything about Calabria.
hi cat,
Fully, I thank you. for your informative post. It's hard to believe that the Washington gangsters are still at it 12 years into the theft. Though your post is revealing, I still give them (Mnuchin and Co) a better than 50% chance at snatching these super lucrative assets from the shareholders. A crime committed as an afront to the very heart of our capitalist system and no one in officialdom to comprehend the magnitude of this crime, not even the courts(or this madness would have been stopped years ago).
I have been watching this board since 2008. I made a big time commitment to purchase both common and preferred. Lots of F&F boosters here.
Sadly, Mnuchin & Co. are out to terminate any value held by shareholders and decimate their equity entirely. Listen to the garbage emanating from Treasury and FHA via the obliging media (Bloomberg, WSJ, CNN FOX etc.)and you'll understand that this is a major engineering effort to confiscate these entities and redistribute $19 Trillion in assets to friends and family of Trump & GS. $16-20 Billion in annual profit is a very tempting prey, and Mnuchin &Co. are pretty much have it in their gun-sight. So, while I remain fully engaged, I don't sleep at night knowing that the rich and powerful are indeed, RICH & POWERFUL enough to steal, plunder, and conquer the vanquished shareholders. I also, don't have too much faith in our judicial system to be able to stop this travesty. Congress (both parties)is already in the pocket, so, don't count on any support from there. I have yet to see a shareholder friendly article describing this horrific action and its devastating ramification on the capitalist system as a whole.
955 great post! Those CPAs really put it to Treasury manipulation and malfeasance. Nevertheless, I predict that Mnuchin&co. will have their way and F&F shareholders will be hosed. I don't like it one bit...but, the current trend of power elites is that they rule. They are outright thugs, yet they can do whatever they want and the congress, press, and courts will genuflect to their every whom. Welcome to America 21st century. Shareholders have a 5% chance of winning anything at all. This is the sorriest time in the history of this Republic.
mrfence, you are spot-on correct. We knew this fact in Sept 2008, yet no one paid mind to our protests. The Congress is corrupt and the press, especially, Bloomberg and the WSJ, are stooges for an agenda-driven autocrats in Treasury. Personally, I do not trust the Courts as they have been deliberately (11 years)tardy in issuing their 'judgment' by letting the treasury loot the shareholders of $Billions while this vile BIG LIE was blatantly repeated by congressmen and officials. And even after 11 years, the en banc decision was not unanimous. Really?? Not unanimous!! On this BRAZEN ACT OF THUGGERY??
Interesting. FNF were long in private hands BEFORE HERA was written. An Ex post facto law cannot denude the shareholders just because some a**hole wrote this garbage. See what these idiots have done?! Now, SCOTUS has to review and nullify the gobblygook confiscatory verbiage that was inserted into the HERA.
Donotunderstand
"sorry I must say this"
'you just realized now that there is a potential for such dilution'?
That - IMO - has been the subject of many (and more) posts"
NO, I'm not a new-be! I know you said it in jest.It is a far gone conclusion that the intention is to nullify current owners sake in these companies. To what extent is Treasury going to dilute stakeholders is the issue.
There are two options IMHO.
1.- Retain the 79.9% Warrants and re-market it as a secondary offering.
2. Disregard the Warrants, and just issue new shares to shore up the capital.
Both options stick it to the current shareholders. My point is that the Warrants are more toxic to Treasury and downright deadly to current holders. If Gov't insists on exercising the Warrants, we'll be in litigation purgatory for the next 10 years.
Option 2 is dangerous as well, since we do not know how far the dilution will cut into our equity.
It's hard to keep up with all the opinions on this board as everyone is all-in with remarks and rebuttals. Healthy, but time consuming. All the best.
5bagger, I'm am perplexed by the Warrants issue. If Treasury exercises 79.9% takeover of F&F thru this mechanism, the lawsuits will end up in SCOTUS - invoking the 'Taking Clause'.
Yet, should this path be taken, there will be no room for a secondary dilution. the $20B of income will shrink to $4B available to shareholders, or ~$1.30 per share (that's Moellis's calc. of 10X =$13.00).
I see an opening here for numerous additional lawsuits and potential reversal of NWS. I think that it's too messy.
RickNagra I understand your reply. As it stands right now, Frank-Dodd is hampering the TBTF banks from initiating numerous types of loans, so they use intermediary outfits such as NEWTEK Corp, to originate and consolidate loan applications- including mortgages - into securities that they are permitted to own. I can contemplate a scenario where these small originators/consolidators will be set up as schills to 'share' the mortgage business with F&F. In this manner, the small Main Street people would feel comfortable with the new arrangement as it would disarm their fears that the Big Boyz are taking over. Trust me, the Big Boyz ARE taking over. They will just hide behind the facade of 'hands-off'.
Of course, all of this is pure speculation on my part and should be treated as such.
KIp, good point!
Once we can figure out the gov't game plan, we'll be able to predict the final 'settlement'. I concur with you that the new team wants to enlarge the playing field by allowing the TBTF banks a chance at the brass ring that F&F have been basking in for 84 years. To that end Mnuchin and Co. will dilute shareholders' value AND diffuse F&F earning power by letting TBTF banks and insurance companies to steal market share from these GSEs.
The problem with that concept is that the banks' greed will push us back into the brink. This is a bad idea, since F&F are the very instruments designed to backstop the banking industry at times of illiquidity. Depleting their profits and capital will only force the Treasury to step in with much more intervention than contemplated and at far greater cost to this Nation than the 2008 debuckle.
Rest assured that this folly will be adopted by our 'wise' men at Treasury...until the next time.
thanx for the compliment cmdr I always read your just -in - time comments
I've been looking at the valuation for the combined F&F. As I read it, the annual profits are in the $11-15 Billion per annum (combined). With ~3B shares outstanding this means about $4.00/shr (yes, it's more or less. This is a hypothetical calculation). If we just give it an 8X multiple the common should trade at $32-36.
I don't expect Mnuchin to give the shareholders the full ownership of these entities since Treasury already has its tentacles firmly lodged in their jugular with the NSW. Therefore I'll adjust my expectations to a 50% haircut on the price. I also expect that these companies will have NO FEDERAL TAX payable for many years in order to compensate them for the years of unremitting Treasury withdrawals.
Holding and biting my nails.
PS Only an occasional poster here.
thanks Velcro, that will be $.232 per Annum then.
5/21/19 Just posted div of .05EUR.
Anyone know how to translate this to US $s?
It claims 4.37% forward yield that would be about $.20?