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Sure, some entities paid in full, and now, they are paying post petition interests..
It is not strange. They are different debtors. Im not questioning the satisfied in full concept, something that some pumpers are trying to show up. But they seem to forget some clauses about the POR.
Of course, I will answer, LD. Just read the paragraph:
(c) To the extent that any Debtor has Available Cash after all Allowed Claims against that Debtor have been satisfied in full in accordance with Section 8.13(a) of the Plan, each holder of each such Allowed Claim shall receive its Pro Rata Share of further Distributions, if any, to the fullest extent permissible under the Bankruptcy Code in satisfaction of postpetition interest on the Allowed amount of such Claims at the rate applicable in the contract or contracts on which such Allowed Claim is based (or, absent such contractual rate, at the statutory rate) until such time as all postpetition interest on all such Allowed Claims has been paid in full.
Postpetition interest must be paid in full, even with allowed claims satisfied in full with a different meaning than paid in full
After selling 5B, I wouldn´t say it is subjective. My point is it doesn´t seem to be close to an end. I think it could take 2 years more to say the least.
What do you think about the treatment of RSUs? I see too much work on this to be wind down next year. The Plant Trust agreement should expire on Dec 2014, 3 years after the confirmation date of the Plan.
I think you are wrong with that. There are sources of cash pending of liquidation.
For example, in May and June, LBHI sold lower priority claims totalizing 5.22B of its unsecured claims against LBI at 45% face value. I believe there are 9B pending to sell. LBHI did agree no to sell the remaining package before Dec 31.
http://www.law360.com/articles/450367
His DD says zero to CTs..You can read for yourself, LD
half empty, half full glass, the difference between an optimistic guy (you) and a pessimistic one. lol
Just my point, 21.1% is in all four notices. The number never increased with the CFE.
I again agree with that, but I have to say that the debtors never updated their estimates..so the door is open.
The debtors estimate that Class 3 claimants will recover 21.1% of the allowed amount of their claims after all the distributions have been made pursuant to the Plan.
Im trying to be objective. I repeat, I mentioned this note a long time ago. In the first notes, the term 21.1 is on black and underlined in the original letter.
I always saw CT´s destiny linked with Class 10 debentures except a swap to preferreds that Cotton explained very well a lot of times.
It could be the same thing if paid off means 100%
Nothing in FAQ or the POR says something like this:
The debtors only need to achieve each class payout percentage to consider them paid off.
You are right on this, and I was the first copying and pasting the paragraph of the note, but the notes says it is an estimate. Im mentioning the fact, not my own speculation.
Note: The LBHI class 3 senior noteholders has already been told that they will only receive 21.1% in this bankruptcy. Is 21.1% an estimate or the real cutoff percentage?
All the notes sent by Wilmington Trust clearly and explicitly says it is an estimate.
With the clause of post petition interests in the POR, and an antecedent of payment of these interests on some affiliates like LBSF, I don´t see how they can stop the reallocation and pay in full Class 10 or 11. No chance at all. In case they stop payments under the POR, they stop them to all classes. It will be time of reorganization or final liquidation.
LBHI’S NOTICE OF HEARING AS TO PENDING CLAIMS
RELATED TO RESTRICTED STOCK UNITS AND CONTINGENT STOCK AWARDS
PLEASE TAKE NOTICE that an evidentiary hearing regarding claims related to Restricted Stock Units and Contingent Stock Awards appearing on the omnibus objections
listed on Exhibit A attached hereto will be held before the Honorable Shelley C. Chapman,
United States Bankruptcy Judge, at the United States Bankruptcy Court, Alexander Hamilton
Custom House, Courtroom 621, One Bowling Green, New York, New York 10004 on April 1,2014, at 10:00 a.m. (Eastern Time) (or as soon thereafter as counsel may be heard), and continuing as the Court may direct on April 2 and 3, 2014.
Docket 41589
You can be right. From last Wilmington Trust´ notice to notholders, Oct 13:
"The debtors estimate that Class 3 claimants will recover 21.1% of the allowed amount of their claims after all the distributions have been made pursuant to the Plan"
They keep the target, even being so close with last distribution, 20,55%
Under the POR, Class 10b will recieve nothing. Zero. No chance at all. And it means satisfaction in full under the plan, even with a complete reallocation. Some posters diferetiate between the debt and the equity and this IS the big question, if there is life or not after a discharge of the debt.
From your post:
"The guarantee will not cover payments when the trust does not have sufficient funds to make payments on the preferred securities. "
So, first, will be there remaining money/life after the POR?, In a positive case, second, will CTs survive the discharge of a satisfied in full debt related?
I think the thesis of Cotton about a swap to preferreds is very possible. If not, I think CTs are toast, because of its guarantee is an unsecured claim.
The preferred securities must be trading on a market to keep their guarantees alive.
Where did you read this? Where did you read that a guarantee expires without quoting?. It is a presumption.
It does not matter because the CTs are covered by the LBHI subordinate guarantee.
I don´t want to start an old discussion again, but it does matter, because of the subordinate guarantee is an unsecured claim, like it was on LBIE. So, as you mentioned in a post before, the POR clearly says how to treat allowed clams under the POR.
(“[t]he confirmation of a plan [of reorganization] . . . (A) discharges the debtor from any debt that arose before the date of such confirmation . . . whether or not [ ] a proof of claim based on such debt is filed or deemed filed . . . .”)."
The debt side, Class 10b under the POR, should be discharged. Can the equity side keep its substance without its related debt? I think they can´t, and it was told to me by a an expert lawyer on Trust securities.
The quoting of Trust securities was a MM´s game. It should be clear after all the speculation in relation with CTs being redeemed.Still waiting for LEHNQ.
And it will be discharged.
ORDER EXTENDING THE PERIOD TO FILE OBJECTIONS TO AND REQUESTS TO ESTIMATE CLAIMS
ORDERED that the Objection Deadline imposed by section 9.1 of the Plan is hereby extended for a period of eighteen (18) months to September 6, 2015, without prejudice to the ability of the Plan Administrator to request further extensions; and it is further
Docket 41286
"PLEASE TAKE NOTICE that a status conference to address procedures for an evidentiary hearing for claims related to Restricted Stock Units and Contingent Stock Awards appearing on the omnibus objections listed on Exhibit A attached hereto will be held before the Honorable James M. Peck, United States Bankruptcy Court, Alexander Hamilton Custom House,One Bowling Green, New York, New York, Room 601, on November 22, 2013 at 10:00 a.m."
Docket 41210...
Too much work for a lost cause...(?)
Mr. Schager´s email
schager@ssnyc.com
Because there is a very slim chance that the POR will close with a discharge of all allowed classes. If it happens, the discharge will envolve all the debentures in Class 10. What about the CTs if they are not swapped to preferreds on Class 12? Cotton did see that. In case it is true that RSUs will see some money, it will be because there will be a discharge, and Class 10 will be smoke in the air.
Unfortunately, I think Joe is right.
There is a mistake in last post and it´s fair to mention it. It refers to individuals and not corporate bussines.
Otherwise it would not state that the confirmation of a plan does not discharge a debtor if (C) the debtor would be denied a discharge under chapter 7 of this title
Misinforming..
"In a chapter 7 (liquidation) case, for example, the court usually grants the discharge promptly on expiration of the time fixed for filing a complaint objecting to discharge and the time fixed for filing a motion to dismiss the case for substantial abuse (60 days following the first date set for the 341 meeting). Typically, this occurs about four months after the date the debtor files the petition with the clerk of the bankruptcy court."
http://www.uscourts.gov/FederalCourts/Bankruptcy/BankruptcyBasics/DischargeInBankruptcy.aspx
I did post it on this board, long before you mentioned. You can check it. And you are reading it in wrong way:
(3) The confirmation of a plan does not discharge a debtor if—
(A) the plan provides for the liquidation of all or substantially all of the property of the estate;
(B) the debtor does not engage in business after consummation of the plan; and
(C) the debtor would be denied a discharge under section 727 (a) of this title if the case were a case under chapter 7 of this title.
A) It means NO DISCHARGE inmediately following the confirmation. It doesn´t mean no discharge with a Chapter 11 Liquidation. Thats why LBHI didn´t discharge it yet, taking advantage of NOLs.
I don´t know who are these senior bond holders that you mention. If that is the case, under suposition of this board, they are almost satisfied in full, so, whats the problem? WOW
I agree about the RSUs. I always mentioned it, even in my negative posts.
Brilliant. Excelent point.
Who said that? There is no money for a pay in full scenario. It is clear.
I didn´t see it. Thanks! I would think that satisfaction in full on different classes would have some priority over postpetition interests, at least I understood that from the POR:
(c) To the extent that any Debtor has Available Cash after all Allowed Claims against that Debtor have been satisfied in full in accordance with Section 8.13(a) of the Plan, each holder of each such Allowed Claim shall receive its Pro Rata Share of further Distributions, if any, to the fullest extent permissible under the Bankruptcy Code in satisfaction of postpetition interest on the Allowed amount of such Claims at the rate applicable in the contract or contracts on which such Allowed Claim is based (or, absent such contractual rate, at the statutory rate) until such time as all postpetition interest on all such Allowed Claims has been paid in full.
I only can smile if somebody thinks that $60 million are the total of postpetion interests of 250B on allowed claims..but Id like to know what claims receive these interests and were satisfied in full. Were they paid in full? What class are they? It deserves some DD.
Mis informed? You should say it to Lehman. Did you read the Press release? I only made a transcription.
You are wrong with that, without any intention of starting a discussion. Otherwise, I don´t see why there will be a next distribution on March.
It was an old semantic discussion on this board about the meaning of the term "satisfaction in full" on the POR.
In the Notice of Wilmington Trust to holders of LBHI notes, it is mentioned:
"The debtors estimate that Class 3 will recover 21.1% of the allowd amount of their claims after all the distributions have been made pursuant to the Plan."
You can remark the word estimate, or the term all the distributions have been made pursuant to the Plan with all underlined in the original letter. It is your choice.
http://www.wilmingtontrust.com/lehman/pdf/Lehman_Notice_to_Holders_of_CUSIP_524908NF3_dated_06_13_12.pdf
We know now that there will be a next distribution on March. So we can start the speculation about it will be or not the last one. It seems that 3B were not enough to close the POR.
"and (iii) $36.5 million and $24.2 million from Lehman Brothers Financial ProductsInc. and Lehman Brothers Derivative Products Inc., respectively, on account of postpetition interest to holders of Allowed Claims that have been satisfied in full. "
Interesting, but it seems they are talking about LBF and derivative Unit. Interesting anyway.
They have not satisfied the POR in full. Class 3 was expecting a 21.1% distribution under the Plan, in case it means satisfaction in full.
In accordance with the chapter 11 plan, which was confirmed on December 6, 2011, and subject to available funds, the Lehman Debtors’ fifth distribution to creditors is anticipated to be made within 5 business days of March 30, 2014.
We will see it soon. Im buying the ticket to the circus lol. POR statement of discharge is a normal procedure if they are under chapter 11 liquidation. Eventually, they will discharge but It doesn´t guarantee there will be remaining assets. But you read what you want, you didn´t read about pay in full of interest to every allowed claim, something like 250B in a whole.
I was saying for 3 years on this board that it is a Chapter 11 Liquidation Plan probably with discharge (with or without remaining assets? I don´t know, but the POR says pay in full of interests on every allowed claim, so, enough to wipe out every asset). It is weird to read satisfaction in full of claims at avg 20% and pay in full for interests of every allowed claim..
Some people still wait for a cancellation of the POR with next distribution and I posted a docket related with Federal Mortgage claim, actually under restricted cash, asking for a re classification under Class 3, with hearing on October 24 lol. I mentioned that some lawyer with expertise on Trups wrote to me about the default of CTs, and He mentioned that Lehman is already on default- something obvious-, so there is no chance of payments of divis... so, relax and wait what happens on next 10 days.
I admit I have some hope about the fate of RSUs. Too much work classifying them last days.