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We've stopped complaining and posting so I doubt we hear anything any time soon. As long as there's no pressure on them they won't do anything. Or even pretend to do anything...
Obviously not the details of the case, no, but that chatter has to start somewhere and this place is as good as any. You listening Wanderport? This isn't just going away so better get testing and deliver what you promised over and over.
Lol... It's weird cause it went from at least 4-5 posts a day every day (even a lot more before) to nothing at all for a week... I think we shouldn't give them the impression we've given up on this and went away cause that's probably what they are trying to get with all the delays and BS.
Is there something wrong with my IHUB or did this board die a sudden death?
Lol 2010... Wow... Pretty sad. And yet we're still here.
Lol really you smell lies? Yeah they never really said why the measurements could not be repeated...
The way I understood it they don't have anything they need right now. They are ordering parts for option A and also have options B and C lined up as contingencies. I think the PR said that they are waiting for them to meet in some place, go in the same box and be shipped to the US (Canada wherever...) and that would take over 4 weeks. Pretty sure that if they had a working testable unit they'd be testing. And lets face it WDRP is not the kind of company that has a million contingency plans 100% ready before they start to do something. They are super lucky if they have one plan that barely pans out from start to end and even that hasn't happened even once so far.
Can't really be testing anyway when the components are a month away (supposedly)... And then they need to put the whole contraption together, hopefully everything works and fits and only then testing. Very very possible they stretch this into next year with more excuses.
Oh yeah, also I forgot to add they've been lying to us all this time... That's another thing we know.
That doesn't necessarily mean they don't have anything or that they won't in the future or that they weren't genuinely working on things. It's just that they definitely misrepresented their progress and the the status of the unit, sometimes in a big way. It's obviously not a good sign. It could be lack of experience, incompetence, naivete, mis-communication internally, things not progressing as fast as they thought when they promised etc etc, whatever you want to call it but it could obviously also be a sign of a scam.
Technically speaking both sides are correct in this argument.
On one hand it is 99.99% sure that they have a working unit. After 3-4 years of development it would be ridiculous if they didn't. It would take someone with a basic knowledge of physics and electricity a weekend to put something together from parts of microwave ovens, pvc pipes and other stuff you find at any DIY store, something that does technically heat water. However, that doesn't really mean anything at all since that device could be horribly unreliable, may have to be operated manually, may be dangerous to human beings, may be horribly inefficient, may be crazy expensive and the list goes on. Making something that technically heats water using microwaves is technically very very easy, making something competitive in the marketplace is infinitely harder.
On the other hand it is 100% correct that Wanderport has provided no proof of anything so far. Sure, they are testing at Intertek and sure they do have a box with components in it but that isn't proof of any value in their technology. Anyone can pay a few thousand to a third party tester, spend a few thousand more on some components that when put together heat water for 30 seconds and then blow up and call themselves a company. Not saying this is the case here but they have provided absolutely no proof whatsoever that it is not the case.
So bottom line it is really ridiculous to claim they have nothing. And it is just as ridiculous to claim they have something worth investing in. They definitely have something and it definitely could be worthless.
Wanderport’s contingency positions are to use the lower powered magnetrons with two inductive drivers or to use 2 air cooled magnetrons that the driver manufacturer certifies as compatible while permitting a manual calculation to compensate for the 30 percent loss due to air cooled magnetrons rather than recuperating the 30 percent loss by flowing water through the usual water cooled magnetrons.
Way I understand it plan A is to use the "almost-production" setup, the one they had all along, just with the lower powered magnetrons that would go with the newly procured drivers. There should be no major number fudging there, tested numbers should be close to finished product specs, more or less... The contingency plans are either replacing the drivers with "inductive drivers", whatever those are OR using the normal drivers but with air cooled magnetrons and this is where the manual 30% addition would occur. So the way the PR is worded it sounds like they would use the air magnetrons only if the other, "main", option doesn't work. It would be plan B or C. At the end of the day it's good they have more than one option since it leaves fewer ways to weasel out of getting test numbers.
Unfortunately it sounds like they still need production of magnetrons and drivers, having the magnetrons and drivers meet and go in the same box, having that box shipped here, having whatever changes made to fit it all in the box and wire it all and only then testing. Sooo much that could go wrong. At least a couple of months before results, at the earliest. And then the holidays will be here so...
Come on guys lets be realistic here, does anyone really believe anymore that they have some revolutionary super efficient product? I certainly don't, we would have seen some type of proof by now. So them fudging the numbers and adding 30% just like that is pretty much a good thing. It will make for good numbers and possibly give us a chance to cut our losses. Numbers that look bad only once you dig into how they are calculated are better than numbers that look bad to start with. I say do whatever you need to do as long as you move forward, do some tests and come up with some decent numbers.
It is really disappointing that they now seem to be saying (the way I understand it which is not a lot...) that they need new magnetrons too even though before they said just drivers and that everything else is lined up.
I will have to give them credit for finally providing a more detailed explanation of what is (supposedly) going on, providing more frequent updates and providing a rough time estimate. We could have used a whole lot more of that before.
Company I work for does a good 80-90% of its business in Asia and while there are some cultural differences we don't have to constantly fly there and blow air up someone's ass to get the smallest simplest thing done. These are really huge companies and aren't in China so it may be different but still, it seems strange to have to fly over there just to do what? Place an order? Personally hand them a piece of paper with the specs? Give them the Fedex box? Especially for a company that is as cash strapped as WDRP is it seems like a waste. And we aren't talking about a huge million dollar order, we are talking about a bag of parts worth maybe a few hundred. And especially with their history of slightly bending the truth it certainly raises some questions. Anyway, I really hope you are right and things are really moving along and the trip was necessary and gets results.
I was confused by that too, Was thinking great, we'll be testing in a couple days but then it says they haven't even shipped. I would assume they meant he arranged to have some made and shipped... But then it's hard to see how he knows they will be what he wants if he didn't even lay hands on them... And why he had to go all the way over there if he didn't actually bring anything back, test anything etc. Surely some specifications and an order can be emailed, faxed etc... They do play pretty fast and loose with the English language. And with the facts...
Awesome news! In 3-4 years at the very most we will be ready for testing. Barring any unforeseen circumstances of course...
That was funny.
Hmmm, don't know what to say... On one hand this is actually more detail than we ever got about what is going on although as others have said it is most likely because of the talk of going after them, not because they are mending their ways. On the other hand, again as others have noted, there is no explanation at all as to why these drivers are needed in the first place. Ok, tests were not correct but then just test again...
Also, this whole idea that only this one company in China manufactures these magical drivers that are the only part in the world capable of powering the magnetrons... Aren't these devices, at least some of them, adjustable? Do they have to have these super exact characteristics hard wired into them from the factory and nothing else at all will do? And the idea that you have to physically hop on a plane and ring the guy's door bell in China to get a certain part... Seems part of the medieval way they do business where they are hampered by all these hurdles the rest of humanity overcame decades ago...
Overall I'd say this is a small step forward but a really really tiny one. Nothing about all the lies so far, about patents, about most of the questions we had. I would at the very least want a detailed description of 1. why do they need the new drivers in the first place and 2. why is there no other source in the world for some drivers that would be at least sufficient for testing. This whole premise that only this one company in China can help them leaves the door open for so many excuses going forward.
I obviously agree with you but I was talking about valid reasons, reasons that would be considered reasonable for a "normal" company. The reasons listed are all about them not caring about us. But since we cared about their many PRs and bought their stocks they don't have the option to not care about, at least if they don't want us to go after them and be considered a scam. I don't think they can tell the SEC "yeah we promised all this stuff for years but we just didn't care enough to give them any information".
I am not saying we will make them produce it. I am saying we will give them a chance to, in the interest of fairness. Maybe they really are that inexperienced and incompetent and naive that they think they've been doing ok so far and that only very few investors are dissatisfied. We need to let them know that is not the case and the vast majority of investors are not willing to wait any longer without this information. Which is all information that any real company should have and should provide. If they don't we will know what we need to know and move from there accordingly. If they refuse to provide this information we can all officially say that they are lying to us and are hiding something. Unless someone can think of good valid reasons why they would refuse to tell us these things...
Both very good points, added them to the original list below so it's all together.
If it was up to me I would give them until the end of the month, so pretty much a full 4 weeks. I really don't think they need anywhere near this long but whatever, just so they don't have any excuses.
I would ask for:
- ALL results ever obtained from the unit, both at Intertek and at their location and wherever else. They absolutely 100% have to have something after all these years.
- Photos of the insides of the box. At this point excuses about IP are BS because there is no I and hardly any P in there and nobody is trying to steal their "technology". And you can't replicate something based on a couple of photos anyway.
- A video of it heating water, as soon as all parts are in and it is functioning.
- Exact plans going forward, what parts are still needed, exactly why, where are they, when will they be here, when will the unit be ready for testing, etc. No general fluff like until now, something specific that a grownup can consider a valid excuse.
- A firm commitment to a date for obtaining results at Intertek. Ideally since there are 4 weeks we should already have the actual results.
- An explanation of why the patents/patent applications are not kept up to date. Since intellectual property is all the company has at the moment and since the company constantly refuses to give investors any details about the product quoting fears of losing its IP it seems very very strange that there are not more patents and that existing ones are not kept up to date.
- A list of planned products (if more than one) and price points for any products. Ideally details of how they will be sold too.
- An explanation of exactly why it took 3 years to get... well nowhere. We are exactly where we were 3 years ago, absolutely 0 progress. I would like a detailed explanation of all the delays and all the supposed progress, just so we have it all together and in writing with as much detail as possible.
- An explanation of how they feel about the huge discrepancy between what has been promised and what has been delivered. And especially not just what was promised for the future but what we were told the status and progress was versus what it actually was. And an explanation of exactly why that does not constitute flat out lying on multiple occasions.
I am sure I am forgetting some things and others here can improve on those items and add new ones. Also, there may be reasons for giving them more time than that or less time.
It is not a lot to ask for, not more than half a day for one person to put it all together on their side since it should all be information they have and at this stage they owe us far more than just that. If they do not deliver on these simple requests we consider it a done deal and go after them right away. No reason waiting further.
It may be a good idea to put together a somewhat formal document and email and/or mail it to them, with as many aliases as possible included, ideally actual names. Individual investors trying to contact them obviously achieves nothing at all but hopefully they have a harder time ignoring a detailed, respectful and constructive request from a large number of investors. If they do then we have to do what we have to do...
Anybody should feel free to post anything on FB or anywhere else. At this point we need to shake things up and there is no point waiting too much longer. Only thing I would say is we should maybe wait a couple of days so that everyone has a chance to add anything to the list of questions/demands. Just so it isn't just one person's opinion.
If it was up to me I would give them until the end of the month, so pretty much a full 4 weeks. I really don't think they need anywhere near this long but whatever, just so they don't have any excuses.
I would ask for:
- ALL results ever obtained from the unit, both at Intertek and at their location and wherever else. They absolutely 100% have to have something after all these years.
- Photos of the insides of the box. At this point excuses about IP are BS because there is no I and hardly any P in there and nobody is trying to steal their "technology". And you can't replicate something based on a couple of photos anyway.
- A video of it heating water, as soon as all parts are in and it is functioning.
- Exact plans going forward, what parts are still needed, exactly why, where are they, when will they be here, when will the unit be ready for testing, etc. No general fluff like until now, something specific that a grownup can consider a valid excuse.
- A firm commitment to a date for obtaining results at Intertek. Ideally since there are 4 weeks we should already have the actual results.
- An explanation of exactly why it took 3 years to get... well nowhere. We are exactly where we were 3 years ago, absolutely 0 progress. I would like a detailed explanation of all the delays and all the supposed progress, just so we have it all together and in writing with as much detail as possible.
- An explanation of how they feel about the huge discrepancy between what has been promised and what has been delivered. And especially not just what was promised for the future but what we were told the status and progress was versus what it actually was. And an explanation of exactly why that does not constitute flat out lying on multiple occasions.
I am sure I am forgetting some things and others here can improve on those items and add new ones. Also, there may be reasons for giving them more time than that or less time.
It is not a lot to ask for, not more than half a day for one person to put it all together on their side since it should all be information they have and at this stage they owe us far more than just that. If they do not deliver on these simple requests we consider it a done deal and go after them right away. No reason waiting further.
It may be a good idea to put together a somewhat formal document and email and/or mail it to them, with as many aliases as possible included, ideally actual names. Individual investors trying to contact them obviously achieves nothing at all but hopefully they have a harder time ignoring a detailed, respectful and constructive request from a large number of investors. If they do then we have to do what we have to do...
Ugh, don't even remind me... There's a really really long string of those PRs, each better than the last, each more optimistic, with mentions of huge world markets, revolutionary products, everything is ready, almost being manufactured, lots of interest, juicy steak and so on... And where are we now?
I really doubt there are many fans left... Don't think even Andy would bother to post here under whatever name since nobody would take him seriously and it would only make things worse.
As far as what we can do unfortunately the answer is not much. I think at this point we are in a cliff type scenario, we just wait however longer and then go after them with whatever we can. We could give them an ultimatum saying hey, unless you release all the information you have and come clean (whatever the truth may be, good or bad...) by this date we will consider we were lied to and scammed and go on the offensive. Going after them straight away with no warning is perhaps not wise since it will give them an excuse to pull the plug on the whole thing, saying hey we were almost there but investors ruined it. But at this stage waiting much longer doesn't make much sense either since it is pretty obvious they will just keep stringing us along forever. So I would say the only option we have is asking them for everything they have and for an honest explanation and if we don't get anything then go after them for whatever it's worth, just to feel better and protect others in the future, if not to actually recover a lot of money.
What I meant is that before there may have been some doubt, some small chance that they genuinely had something but just hit a lot of potholes on the way there. Now that's not really a real possibility, the excuses they are using lately are increasingly childish and far fetched. But obviously everyone has their own idea of when it became obvious they were lying.
Unfortunately I have to agree. If they had anything that in any way resembled a competitive product or could even be spun to look like one they would have released something. This whole "protecting IP" is total BS at this stage. It looks like they have nothing and they will try to stall as long as possible before it's official they were lying all this time and the $hit really hits the fan. Only conclusion that fits at this stage, sadly.
These guys are acting either really immature or really desperate, whatever you want to call it, by not answering any questions at all, not saying anything, no email replies... Who possibly imagines that by sticking your head in the sand it all goes away. Wake up WDRP and act like grown-ups and tell us what is really going on...
I agree this looks really stinky but technically there is no SEC case of any kind against WDRP or even any mention of one anywhere. So saying "THE" case is misleading. It is only some separate case that may be related. There is only an AMF case that names the company as the target of manipulation.
And second, no matter how true it is it will not make the pps go up so...
That doesn't seem like what they are doing here... At this point this thing looks like a sad failure, with really sad, transparent excuses, not sure how anyone would believe anything about a buyout. They aren't even disappearing, at least not yet... I am curious what their plan is.
Both of you guys have a point. On one hand it makes no sense to keep piling lies on the plate when you have a chance of avoiding jail, which I think they do. On the other hand they could be so desperate that they could be out of ideas and are literally clutching at straws buying themselves a month at a time.
The strange thing is that if this is a scam, which we are starting to slowly all agree on, how come they didn't have some semblance of a plan of how to wind it down? What they are doing right now is really childish and ridiculous if it is to cover a scam. Surely they should have come up with a better plan and scenario from the start since they knew there would never be a product... You can't make all those promises for months and years and then just say "ooop, just kidding, there's no heater". I think the story is a little more complex.
Also, why not give us something, anything?
Why not publish those 30 second interval results, why not show a picture of these magical drivers, the old ones and new ones, show us the modified box, tell us what you are doing every day. At this point anything less than 110% full transparency is a clear sign that it's game over and we need to decide what we do from now on. Just one paragraph every two months with some third grade excuse won't cut it.
First of all what the hell are drivers?
Second why do they need the freaking box? Just put everything in that wood crate we saw in the pics, maybe wrap it in foil or something and fire it up, just don't stand too close to it. Or buy some metal box from Home depot or somewhere.
And third and most important I'm starting to not understand how what they are doing makes sense. If you have nothing (which really looks like the case now) why keep up this ridiculous crap? They are just digging themselves into a hole. When (not if) it comes to the trial/investigation all these endless lists of childish excuses will look just as bad as they do to us now... They can't possibly think that anyone is genuinely buying this crap anymore. when they will have to explain the technical reasons for these delays in court their whole front will crumble. Why dig yourself in that hole, why not say ok, turns out it doesn't work... Just don't get it.
Pretty sure they read this board too, they do complain about it enough. Maybe we should have a show of (virtual) hands of who's for and who's against going after them in court or with the SEC so we have some idea. Maybe a list of handles, not actual names in an ongoing post with who is A. ok with going after them and willing to get involved, B. ok with going after them but not willing to get involved and C. not ok with going after them, thinks we should wait etc. Do the same on FB for whoever is there and see what's what... Maybe not right now but at some point.
What would happen would be that we would get some money (probably not that much) and they would get what they deserve. All in all pretty good. If it did go that way but it's very far from a sure thing. Although I do believe there is something there, I mean there have to be some rules as far as what you say you have vs what you actually have and what you deliver. And in there case there isn't one PR that could be a misunderstanding or something, there are tens of them over the years, plus the FB stuff, emails they sent, a lot of stuff, saying over and over how the technology is there and working great and all it needs is just minor touch ups and testing. If it then turns out they have next to nothing and are nowhere near competitive then that is obviously a lie with the direct purpose of financial profit.
As far as the SEC, not sure that would spur them but it certainly would not hurt the chances of them getting involved. But I think complaining to them would be a separate and parallel thing. The AMF seems to be pretty lame, nothing came of their supposed investigation in forever.
By "go after them" I meant SEC and lawyer route. Although the Russian mafia isn't a bad idea either, they are incredibly efficient. What I would focus on is what they PRed and promised versus what they delivered. After a million PRs saying product almost done, almost being manufactured etc if it turns out that even the core of their technology is useless and bogus then they have obviously been lying in a big way. I.e. stealing. And I'm not saying go after them tomorrow, I am not even expecting results tomorrow or in two weeks. But unless they actually start communicating and stop lying I don't see the point in waiting any further. If they start giving some details of what they are doing and some believable, adult-level explanations for why things are not happening then ok, I can wait. But right now they are acting like 8 year olds and treating us the same, staring into the ground and eventually saying the dog ate their homework... No reason to wait even one more day, there are absolutely no excuses for the way they are acting and the BS they are feeding us in the very rare occasions they feed us anything at all. If they are willing to be honest and transparent and finally put their cards on the table then maybe that is different.
It's possible. But they have to have known something was up ages ago even if that was the case...
Like the lawyer and SEC options. Doubt we can get much money back but it would feel oh so good. The schooling and tax write offs are a given... I'll give them at least a couple of weeks, not because I think they have a product but because they might say they do. If they say they don't we should go after them.
Really sad but that's actually better worded and more clear and concise than any of their PRs...
And the week when they said testing would be completed ended but we have heard nothing one way or another. Were the tests carried out? If yes when can we expect results, if no why and when will they be? Just more silence... It's so frustrating. How hard is it to write one line on FB, "Tests completed" or "Tests not done yet, estimating two more weeks". No excuse whatsoever for not doing that. When/if they go to the big house I hope they share the cell with a big guy who's in the mood every night.
If only the technology existed for the company to provide quick updates on what is going on every couple of days or a week so we don't have to keep wondering... But alas we must still rely on the carrier pigeons, a lot of which don't make it to their destination meaning we only get updates every 6 months if we are lucky and everything is "tentative". And probably Robert not being able to make it to Intertek for months is due to him traveling by horse drawn carriage. Parts delivered by donkey, camel and galleon from China, orders and results written on fragile clay tablets, no ability to work past sunset due having no electricity, health problems due to no running water and sanitation, the weather affecting every little aspect of their activity and so on... Pretty much the only way to explain their progress and excuses so far. The Amish will have a microwave heater before these guys do...
Lol!!! In the last phrase they're basically already pumping the next shell they'll get into. And telling us that the "chase the carrot" game with WDRP will continue indefinitely... Not good.