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dear "jan" & "matty":
1. "jan" re: finance help--why $/tree owner; why not $/tree owned? 2MM trees @ $2.50/tree owned = $5MM.
2. no harvest reports for me for 3 years; "jan" what overdue trees do you have; are they just not reported?
3. "ma" as I understand it--$1MM sunk cost in already harvested/thinned trees w/proceeds not yet paid pending Raleo' value add(hence, not deducted from proceeds). Another/different $1MM paid for lumber sold to Raleo' or outside (like mine).
4. "ma" evidence, evidence, evidence? you were there and spent about 4 hours with the owners in May. Were all your questions not posed nor answered?
What additional evidence are you seeking; are you now CSI matty?
5. "ma" please re-read projections and notes; you need to understand what H&P costs are & assessed when, and when C&M fees are paid for what.
My suggestion for TATF was to request H&P cost upfront if a Tree Owner wanted to get their thinning/harvesting going. Need to have money to pay people.
6. "ma" do you have a customer & need a quote? I sold some of my lumber, after getting a specific quote. Current local market prices for seed and teak clones are in projections.
7. "ma" re; no/low value for young teak--please read many historical Tree Owner News.
Show us your cost information for 20-cents or less/B-F
Dear "ju:"
Please share your "expert" cost analysis for each 7" DBH and 20" DBH Teak trees:
felling
moving trunks to sectioning station
sectioning into logs and piling
milling logs into cants
load cants on flatbed
transport cants to wood-yard
unload cants in yard
moving/piling cants in yard
mill cants into flitches
edge->random width lumber
mill flitches->fixed width lumber
stack/unstack for air dry
load/unload, stack/unstack solar dryer
solar dry
kiln dry
All costs need to include: total labor, material,& equipment costs attributed to each activity for each of 2 sizes of tree.
Thank you for your analysis and sharing your expertise. If your costs are in colones, please specify your exchange rate to $US.
so far you have admitted you are negative here
Dear "ju:"
I'm very sorry that (as you explained in your post # 1703) "a bully repeatedly took your money and your lunch."
What you care about is "being negative and honest"--regardless of the impact on TATF and all other Tree Owners? Really?
These may explain a lot!
If you would be so kind as to read (and, hopefully, understand) that in my Suggestion # 3, TATF should let all Tree Owners know their lumber-sale options.
Personally, I am willing to wait to see how the high-volume/value-add initiatives work out.
Your 65-cents per (sawn) B/F is going to be significantly depleted with 39/40-cents H&P cost; and that is only going to get your trees harvested, milled, and dried--still on the farms--unsold! I wish you good luck in that!
Common sense? More like nonsense!
We are still waiting for your positve suggestions on helping to make TATF healthy for the benefit for all Tree Owners.
No, "ju," ju are the joke & a competitor!
The members of this forum would love to hear YOUR positive suggestions for TATF, rather than your constant whining and un-truths that, in fact, damage all Tree Owner investments.
With all the negativity here, yours especially included, whom do you think would lend TATF operating funds and money to re-capitalize (for high volume, value add products)? Huh, genius?
In addition to the teak farm and teak trees that you sold under yet un-explained circumstances, you are now trying to sell more tropical hardwoods--both in competition with TATF (although, apparently, at lower prices).
Absolutely nothing you say is credible; no one should even consider buying your "alleged" trees! Likely scam!
Rejuvination @ Tropical American Tree Farms
As I read the latest "What's New" on the TATF web site, here are my key takeaways:
1. TATF has over $1MM tied-up/spent in already-thinned tree-owner trees.
2. They are beginning a new phase in the development/evolution of the company--concentrating on high volume, value-added production and products sale.
3. With proceeds from the current "Very Special Offer" they are re-capitalizing (buying) equipment and leasing facilities--adding 10k square feet of space.
4. They are both purchasing and fabricating equipment to allow high volume production to speed turning trees into Tree Owner proceeds.
5. A sales team is being recruited and hired uniquely for these new product sales.
6. If tree owners would choose to not provide funds now for thinning, they are free to let their trees continue to mature and add value.
The planned objectives of these initiatives are:
1. TATF will be able to begin again thinning and, hopefully, distribution of proceeds.
2. The going-forward objectives are to volume-process 4-6 million B/F per year and eliminate the 4 million B/F of lumber/cants/logs now in inventory. (Compared to the above, that is about 9-10 months of ongoing production)
My suggestions to accelerate TATF progress and Tree Owner benefits/proceeds:
1. TATF should look for new ways to attract cash flow, speed expansion, and harvest efforts. Does anyone know someone who would lend $5 million, secured?
2. To help ourselves and assist re-capitalization, all consider purchasing either/both older trees in the Very Special Offer, or other available trees on the TATF web site.
3. TATF let all tree owners know their options to sell any/all lumber in the current market.
4. If Tree Owners would like to have any thinnings done in 2010, they must provide Harvest & Process funds (@ $.30/projected B/F) upfront, rather than deducted from lumber-sale proceeds.
TATF has said, publicly, on many occasions, that there was no published information in the beginning on lumber value of young Teak; they admit significantly over-estimating the market value.
There is nothing in any signed agreement that obligates TATF to add value; this is an enormous, internally-funded endeavor for the benefit of Tree Owners!
abn-rgr-rvn
my apologies, "snap"
Was not thinking of negotiating on this forum; but assumed (maybe in error) that you were were really making an offer (to any reader) to sell your trees.
In asking about year/species/quantity/price, I thought some (in addition to me) might show an interest.
Feel free to send a private message if you wish to follow up; we or an associate might have an interest in purchase.
we be passin'.
"designated hitter"--thanks coach "belmo," put me in!
That you assert that you "know what I know" clearly indicates your buffoonery.
Unlike you, I do not believe everything I say, think, or write is fact!
The current administration in D.C. needs you, "belmo!"
I try to state what facts I know, or label my writing as either opinion/belief--or clarify something written/projected by TATF when appropriate.
The questions you cite were answered honestly; most I had no idea!
We know what proceeds--either $ distributions or credits (to purchase more teak trees)-- we have received and what price/BF we got for sold lumber.
TATF clearly stated a couple years ago their erroneous estimates on the value of early-thinning teak lumber and changed their projections.
After extensive research, TATF really had no idea what young teak lumber was worth, because nothing was published.
Based upon our world-wide survey, we believe current projections are now "about right" for teak--mostly pretty conservative!
For our shade-tolerant native species, we also agree with the expert forester's thinning plan that maximizes IRR for tree owners.
Only 2 of our 9 native species have been thinned to date--all are '93-'97.
And, we are very optimistic that the value-added/high-volume product sales (following re-capitalization) will be a hugh benefit
(above-current-projections) for all tree owners--us included!
Suggest you ask TATF what help you can give, and quit whining!
details?
What species do you own?
How many trees?
What year planted--seed or clone (if teak)?
What is your asking price(s)?
"(sic) I (and others) are very interested...."
A. I read the Update; only "certainty" is death & taxes
B. No clue
C. I'm good with your guesses
D. Unknown
E ?
F. TATF ordered the audit of all planted trees on all farms when questions were uncovered by them.
2nd A. No
PS You, "fawt," never told forum readers of the HUB about your teak tree/farm sale--waiting! Competitor?
nope; done with purchases
110% effort going toward supporting value-added/high-volume initiatives by TATF/TAH/Raleo' and selling of our lumber.
Too old to buy more recent plantings; hope my last check bounces (to the undertaker).
thanks for asking, "snap"
See my first posts # 1172/3 (7/9/09)
To date we have yet to see thin/harvest reports from '07-'09; no audit report of holdings; no distributions/proceeds since '08 when I sold some of our own teak lumber.
Looking forward to all of the above and the high volume, value added initiatives now underway @ TATF/TAH/Raleo'.
We own thousands of '93-'97 Teak trees and 9 native species-
'93-'97..
Started purchasing trees in 1995.
Met Mrs. Brunner, Beto (former farms manager) and Mr. Brunner on our family visit years ago--no relation; not an employee!
Simple stakeholder!
abn-rgr-rvn
you could be correct.....
Dear "a1:"
"..posters say similar things, it tends to make the posts more believable..."
Many people said/believed in "hope and change" and guess how that is turning out!
When posters here publicly denigrate, trash, dis-credit, and otherwise damage their own investment, suspicion should rear its ugly head.
Factually, we already know there are postings on your board from both competitors and former TATF employees.
They may, in one way or another, probably have an interest in doing damage to TATF. Opinion.
Why would any reasonable tree owner do that?
You are correct, verifying accuracy and truth may be near impossible on this board.
You are not correct, however, that opinions can be not distinguished from facts.
"People are entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts" (Daniel Patrick Moynihan)
abn-rgr-rvn
what turnip truck.....
Dear "fawt":
What turnip truck did you fall off of?
If "todolosabe" (former employee?) is accusing TATF of fraud and that the whole operation is a scam, why do you accept that as a fact?
Because it fits your belief system, and obvious intent to damage the company!!!!
That you are even a legitimate tree owner is highly unlikely! You are more likely a competitor!
Anyone who posts and does not agree with your opinion, is labeled as "it's Steve."
Which is about as ridiculous as most of your other circling "black helicopter" scenarios.
Anyone who agrees with your non-factual opinion is a "hero" and can "speak nothing but fact" in your mind.
Give the readers of this forum a break.
What proof do you have that sold trees have not yet been marked, or do not exist? Do you have Tree Registry documentation?
I reckon the upcoming individual audit reports will pull back the curtain on all that.
Perhaps "todolosabe" was let go for cause; and perhaps because the pruning, thinning, marking, &/or office communication did not get done as directed.
Perhaps no pay, because "todolosabe" is no longer employed and bitter.
If you are not paid for work actually done you have recourse with the authorities.
dear todolosabe (I know it all)
When did you start and stop working for TATF?
What was your last job/position?
Why are you no longer employed?
en englais', por favor.
excuse me?
Dear "ma:"
Do you have some inside information that no one else has; isn't TATF still offering trees for sale on their web site?
how much lumber?
Dear "bf:"
How much lumber from the '93 teak did your friends and you sell?
If none, and only speculating here, that could be the reason no payments were received.
ANNUAL ACCOUNT FEES WITH EQUITY TRUST
As the annual account fees for Equity Trust are coming due soon, we thought the following might be helpful.
We have spoken with some folks who were not aware of the following "Quote" from them.
From ETC service rep AJ:
"The adjusted annual maintenance fee for any account that only holds TATF assets is $160.00 per year. The account could hold 1 or 100 assets with TATF and the annual maintenance fee would still be $160.00 per year. If your IRA held assets other than TATF, then your fees would follow our regular fee schedule."
Hope this is helpful.
Our family has been tree owners with TATF for 14 1/2 years. We own thousands of '93-'96 Teak trees in 18 different fields on these farms:
Campo Real
Santo Domingo
Rio Blanco
el Capital
la Esperanza
In addition, we own the following native species in 9 fields on Campo Real, Santo Domingo, and Rio Blanco farms:
'93 Idigbo
'93 Peroba Rosa
'94 Goncalo Alves
'94 Brazilian Cherry
'94 Nargusta
'95 Cocobolo
'95 Trebol
'95 Lapacho (Ipe)
'97 Purple Heart
In addition to my having made a number of fishing/vacation trips to both coasts of Costa Rica over the years, our family made a wonderful Spring Break trip to Quepos to inspect our trees on the farms where we met Mrs. Brunner, Beto (farms manager at the time), and Mr. Brunner.
To date, we have received specific, written thinning reports dated the following:
5/16/01
8/25/04
11/28/06
All of our teak have had at least one thinning, most had 2+ (some combined thin/harvests); Idigbo and Nargusta have been thinned once.
On almost all our Teak Trees, early on we had elected to use the projected proceeds as credits ($2.51 teak, $2.05 native) to purchase additional Teak Trees.
For the balance, we have have received cash proceeds from the first thinnings and some from the second combined thin/harvest--when I sold the lumber.
We do not ask for pre-thining reports to simplify our paperwork and the work at TATF; we have no unique knowledge that could contribute anything to their tree-care and management expert knowledge.
We are looking forward to our first '93 teak harvest after 17 full growing seasons--probably within the next 18 months.
We remain optimistic that the planned value-add and high volume initiatives by TATF/TAH/Raleo' will be very successful and yield at least the current web site projections.
abn-rgr-rvn
I'm done.
Dear "ma:'
I'm done responding to your requests for imformation.
We have told you our:
experiences
facts
beliefs
opinions
what we know and don't know
We have no idea what:
you know or don't know
We assume when you ask a question, you would like some information--or an honest "I don't know."
That appears not to be the case.
I believe TATF will prune, thin, and harvest when the weather allows. Historically, the nominal dry season is explained in FAQs.
We have no idea when your trees are scheduled, where they are planted, or anything about your holdings. Don't honestly care one way or another.
The only thinning reports we know anything about are the ones we have received.
1996 plus 14 equals 2010; our '96 teak is probably due a yr. 13 harvest sometime soon; maybe 2010 if it is sufficiently dry and they are in the cue.
Nothing was "shoved back in your face;" some would choose a different anatomical part.
I have received no thin/harvest reports for '07, '08, nor '09; so, I don't know exactly what was "sparingly harvested" with oxen or not.
"Stop bringing up stuff you already know;" how does anyone except you, know what you know.
You don't seem to know how TATF, TAH, nor Raleo' chooses to sell their products, nor the difference between retail, wholesale, manufacured goods (e.g. value added), nor commodities (e.g. teak lumber in bulk quantities).
For example they don't appear to be in the "flooring business,"
but, I suspect if you wanted your lumber turned into flooring and wanted it sent to CT air freight and were willing to pay for it--they would send it to you.
"ZERO evidence" of what (in your last statement)? Of what I believe?
Done here!
Frequently Asked Questions
Dear "ma:"
See Q-19 http://www.tropicalhardwoods.com/htm/main/questions_and_answers.htm#a19
We have no personal knowledge of thinning plans, nor schedules.
We were told at the end of the '09 harvest season, by the now departed Tree Owner Relations Manager, that our teak thinnings ('93-'96 planted) were "up to date."
As previously stated, we are awaiting thinning/harvest reports from the '07, '08, & '09 harvest seasons; with the very unusual heavy rains in '07 & '08 dry seasons, I believe some harvests were combined in '09 with a hugh amount of "catch-up" completed.
Personally, I am very happy our '07 and '08 harvests/thinnings were held back and sparingly done with teams of oxen.
TATF could easily have used the heavy equipment--damaged remaining prime tree roots--and said nothing about it! They explained their management logic--thankfully!
As for this potential harvest season (2010), we are due '96 teak 13-year harvest. We hope, again, if it is excessively wet that they not be done! To us it is absolutely, most essential to give maximum care to the remaining very prime trees--that is where the major (IRR) returns are!
Further, we would very much like to see a high degree of success with the value adding in high volume for earliest thinnings; no interest at this point in selling logs (at virtually no return) nor 7 yr. thinning lumber at $.65/BF while significantly better is being actively worked upon by TATF.
Contacting Tropical American Hardwoods for Quote
Here is how they say to contact:
"http://tropicalamericanhardwoods.com/"
Here is the lumber they say is available:
"http://tropicalamericanhardwoods.com/tropical_hardwood_lumber.htm"
Suggest sending a request for lumber quote with your specifications on:
dimensions & quantities (full half container is about 7200 bf)
desired moisture content
R/S or dimensioned
S4S, etc.
100% heartwood vs. sapwood/heartwood blend-mix
any other quality specs.
FOB where?
target delivery timing
and, if it is your wood &/or someone's else's you specify
abn-rgr-rvn
No Smokescreen
Dear "belmo:"
Offer no smokescreens here; on numerous occasions in T.O.N. and their web page, they have stated publicly that they are "behind" on:
*thinning--too much rain in the dry seasons in '07 & 08--chose
not to damage tree roots with heavy equipment; our thanks!
*no thinning reports since '06--that I have received.
*getting out pre-thinning reports--we don't request them.
*letting each tree owner know the results of the complete audit.
*sending out projected proceeds.
I have no pipeline to the farms. Shucks, other than the 9 in the C.R. pix on the web site, golly gee, I don't even know the names or locations of other than those 9 farms.
Except la Esperanza, where we own some '96 teak; no clue even where it is. Can anyone help here?
No knowledge of planned thinning schedule by year, by farm, by species; all we know is history that has been reported to us.
The only wood marketing I know about is what we have done.
Suggest if you want your information or have investor questions, politely call Mari Jo on the switchboard.
Always found her very pleasant and helpful, but somewhat knowledge-limited herself--guessing they are open Monday.
In the early days of Raleo'
Dear "ma:"
Rest assured I am not trying to convince you of anything at all!
I'm happy to share the facts about the trees we have planted, the proceeds we have turned into both credit for additional trees, and cash returns from the lumber I sold.
In the early days of Raleo' they were willing to make things from your trees and sell them at an appropriate discount; now, I have no clue.
I did get a teak triangular shaped case made for a folded flag for my Dad, a now-deceased veteran.
My understanding from the web site and T.O.N. is that you can take delivery of your wood anytime; they will add value, such as dimensioning, drying, T&G, & etc. if you would want flooring. If you pay the shipping, they might even send you a sample from one of your thinnings (or comparable).
In the past, I believe, but don't know where/now for certain, they have Raleo' pieces on display in showrooms--possibly Columbus and Miami (DCOTA) and L.A.
They (TAH & Raleo') do not seem to be set up to sell to the person off the street (full retail), but choose to sell lumber in container load quantities and furniture thru reps & possibly their showrooms (doubt they are Raleo' employees, however; but, honestly don't know)--never been to one.
If you were going to buy a new (dentist) chair, I doubt you would go to the foundry where they made the base from a casting expecting them to have your exact model; you would go, probably to an outlet (wholesale or retail place-"the trade") that was in that business--selling chairs.
It seems TAH is in the business of selling lumber to whomever would want to buy a full half-container load--about 7300 BF; or break bulk a smaller quantity--individually quoted by exact specification.
A "catalog" could not cover all the possibilities and prices would probably be out of date quickly.
Just my beliefs.
If you enumerate your other questions, I will try to answer.
What are you going to do?
Dear "ma:"
What decisions are you going to make with a thinning report--you can't spend it?
I agree, more information--promised to be on the way by TATF--would indeed be nice to know.
Raleo' sells only to the trade--highly customized and specific, I assume thru reps and possibly their own showrooms around the world.
So why should Raleo' spend the $ to advertise, any more than on the Raleo' web site, to individual customers--go see the rep!
You would be highly unique if you bought a Raleo' custom table on ebay, then used "paypal" for up to $20-30k!
You ARE going to have additional $ obligations to TATF.
We paid to have trees planted and cared for--as their own.
Any thinning, culling, and processing (tree felling, milling, and drying) at this point is money TATF has and will have to spend--not re-paid until proceeds are available, currently $.29/bf and increasing annually.
Further, their care and management fees are only deducted (pocketed by them) when proceeds in excess of purchase price are realized.
How do we know TAH does not have lumber inventory management systems?
Since all TAH orders are container load only, they are probably processed to the buyers specifications on Grade (FEQ, etc.);
R/S vs. dimensioned; A/D, K/D, S/D to a target MC; specified thicknesses, widths, and lengths--with tolerances; on pallets; stretchwrapped and possibly banded.
There is probably not enough space to warehouse and store all the permutation, combinations, and probabilities of lumber orders. This is not a retail item like a blender or even a (dentist) chair.
Agree, web site pix would be nice.
Are you likely to order a container load of teak lumber; better question is--can you find a business that would?
No "happy camper" here
Dear "belmo:"
We are in the same exact boat as every tree owner. Looking for any positive news, but, most importantly, any possible way to further our investment and help TATF/TAH/Raleo'
Not my company; is it yours, my friend?
I have no "testimony," only optimism, as I understand what is at stake--and what type of long term investment this is.
Who said I was a "happy camper," maybe you as a cub scout?
We have been investors since purchasing '93 Teak trees.
My information is from Tree Owner News and the web site. Have you carefully read all of them?
We have looked for and found customers, and provided what we believe are helpful suggestion and ideas. Not here, @ TATF.
Have you; or, are you just content to whine and complain?
If you are not yet an adult, suggest you grow up!
What helpful ideas/suggestions might you have to offer here, my friend?
abn-rgr-rvn
CAN'T SPEND RELEVANT INFORMATION
Dear "Ma:"
I agree with you that relevant information would be desirable, but, unfortunately, it is not bankable/spendable.
We are 1000% supportive of any effort by TATF/TAH/Raleo' to re-capitalize (as noted in last T.O.N.) and add value way beyond the $.65/bf in the current projections for youngest teak.
They are saying they getting equipment to produce various "value added" and "high volume" products.
I hope they do not publicly disclose those, as competitors are always watching the web site--even here!
If anyone has any good ideas on how tree owners could be of assistance, let's hear them.
Personally, I'm fed up with bashing, whining, and complaining--go tell it to your dog & cat!
As they say in Newfoundland: "we don't want to hear your grouches."
I have some SWAG ideas, but would strongly prefer to build on good ideas by others here on this board.
abn-rgr-rvn
please excuse the duplication, CRS
Dear "ju:"
If you can control: inflation, teak selling price--over 25 years, and control yield to exactly the projections you are looking at--resulting in an exact 25% IRR, I want you to start buying my lottery tickets!
Quite honestly, we see just too many variables in this
(ad)venture to precisely forecast 25 years any better than you or TATF.
If you completely eliminate the current projections for 7 and 10yr proceeds--the effect on the IRR is almost negligible.
That doesn't put cash in our pockets now, but it emphasizes
(for us) the long term nature of this endeavor!
What are your PROJECTIONS for price and yield?
Dear "ju:"
If you can control: inflation, teak selling price--over 25 years, and control yield to exactly the projections you are looking at--resulting in an exact 25% IRR, I want you to start buying my lottery tickets!
Quite honestly, we see just too many variables in this
(ad)venture to precisely forecast 25 years any better than you or TATF.
If you completely eliminate the current projections for 7 and 10yr proceeds--the effect on the IRR is almost negligible.
That doesn't put cash in our pockets now, but it emphasizes
(for us) the long term nature of this endeavor!
YOU SIMPLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND IRR
Dear "ju:"
Re: your statement on investing in stocks vs. teak trees.
Your perception of the obvious is phenomenal!!!!!!
Suggest you get someone to help (big time) you understand IRR--it has nothing to do with returns each and every year (annually).
Please let the readers of this forum know if this looks familiar to you:
NOTE: THE PROJECTIONS IN THE TABLES ABOVE AND THE EXPLANATORY NOTES BELOW ARE PROVIDED FOR YOU TO BETTER UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS OF GROWING AND HARVESTING TEAK TREES.
WHILE WE BELIEVE THESE ESTIMATES OF GROWTH, COSTS AND YIELDS TO BE FAIR AND REASONABLE, WE CANNOT GUARANTEE THE FUTURE VALUE OF YOUR TREES, NOR THE LUMBER OR PROCEEDS YOU WILL RECEIVE FROM THEIR THINNING OR HARVEST.
IF YOUR DECISION TO HAVE US PLANT TROPICAL HARDWOOD TREES FOR YOU IS MOTIVATED BY THE EXPECTATION OF FUTURE PROFITS, WE ENCOURAGE YOU TO SEEK THE COUNSEL OF AN INDEPENDENT PROFESSIONAL WHO CAN EVALUATE THE REASONABLENESS AND ACCURACY OF THESE PROJECTIONS.
Comprende, amigo?
Wouda, coulda, shouda
Dear Ma:
Does your stock broker guarantee your trades; does that person even provide projections for a stock appreciating?
I doubt it.
TATF, in my experience, has updated "projections" (NOT GUARANTEES, NOT PROMISES, NOTHING YOU CAN SPEND) when new information is discovered--like no international market and very little value for young thinned teak trees.
Those are probably, in 20/20 hindsight, good fence post material, unless value adding can be somehow done!
Doesn't the web site indicate they are working on that; why, publicly let competitors know what specifically you are doing?
This is a (mostly) 25-year project for most teak holders, with
90%+ PROJECTED return coming in the final 3 harvests; and 61% of PROJECTED returns on the last harvest.
Suggest you ask TATF what, if anything, might be of assistance to them.
You have said you have seen your trees; they have been planted; they are growing nicely; they are recorded in the tree registry.
Why would you want your personal tree-owner information posted on their web site?
Please let readers here know what factual, contractual guarantees to you have not been fulfilled?
What harvests of your trees are overdue; what "guaranteed" proceeds should you have gotten by now?
Many posts ago, I asked you for information
Please post your name, rank, and serial #, SSN, home address, and bank account #. Some people would really like to have that!
What zip code/planet are you from?
I asked under what circumstances, you, as a competitor to TATF--selling teak trees in Costa Rica--sold your farm and trees in an adjacent plot.
No answer yet!!!!!
No personal estimates nor forecasts here by me
Dear "belmo:"
The only projections that were cited by me are directly from the TATF web site, including Tree Owner News. Read my posts, again, please.
We make no other predictions, nor have any non-public "administrative information."
You do not seem to comprehend "ASSUME" in my post #1487 to "Ma" about an imaginary dental practice in CT.
Check out your window, there may be black helicopters circling--"fear the worst!"
I'll try one more time for the more dense, "I have no company!"
I believe there are (&/or have been) both competitors and former employees posting here with the intent to do harm.
Why would a genuine tree owner (investor) attempt to do damage to his/her investment??????
Please answer that!
abn-rgr-rvn
Some telephones have blocking systems
These allow threatening/obscene/annoying/harassing calls to be screened.
Maybe another poster here could try.
"expectation" is not a "prediction"
Our expectation that thinning reports from '07 '08 & '09 harvests was simply based upon the TATF web site indicating they "hoped" to be finished by the end of 2009.
Can't speak for anyone else, but we have yet to receive any additional thin/harvest reports since the first 3 factually documented in posts # 1172 & 3--expectation not yet realized!
Rest assured "belmo," I'm no company spokes-man/person, have no company, and I see hardly any of the inane questions being answered here (like "who are you", it's steve!). Bravo, Sierra.
abn-rgr-rvn
800 # is on the web site
ALIVE AND WELL: TATF, TAH, RALEO'
Nicely ask for Mari Jo on the switchboard, she will try to help any way possible, or find someone who can.
MERRY CHRISTMAS, HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL
Here's hoping for a fabulous 2010 for all tree owners.
YOU MIGHT WANT TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE?
If someone here does not know the difference between public (e.g. Investors Hub postings) of:
Libel
Slander
Defamation of Character
and critique, suggestions, &/or positive input sent to TATF,
they may want to have a lawyer explain it to them.
We have!
We have provided significant privately directed: input, researched data, ideas for operational improvement, questions, marketing ideas, and definite hard-hitting critique.
We have always found that TATF would carefully evaluate the above provided submissions from us and use them, as appropriate.
If Mr. Brunner is any longer reading posts here (and I doubt it), I submit, he is wasting valuable time on some trivia, mis-informed opinions, and venom-spewing hate mongers.
If you want your constructive suggestions heard/read, mail or email them to TATF.
Our experience is that they will be appropriately taken into careful consideration.
COMPETITION IF FUNDAMENTAL TO THE CAPITALISTIC SYSTEM
It is the greatest economic system ever developed and practiced!
Dear "mattyo5"--you are missing the whole point.
--Assume you are an ethical, practicing dentist in a very successful family practice in CT.
Someone, perhaps another dentist--perhaps a disgruntled former employee--takes out an ad or writes in a Dental Trade Journal, local newspaper, or other public forum (e.g. Investors Hub).
It accuses you of malpractice, dental treatment billed but not performed, unpaid employees, contract violation, labor law violation, non-payment of taxes, etc.
Your business suffers to the extent that your partners and you are in "survival" mode and are seeking an additional capital infusion to modernize/improve-the-throughput of your facilities and equipment.
You have cut support staffing to the bone.
Your entire professional career and future ability to practice dentistry is at stake.
You know these are lies, distortions, fallacious claims and constitute:
LIBEL
SLANDER
DEFAMATION OF CHARACTER
I submit this is not COMPETITION--the cornerstone of capitalism!
My family, my partners, and my associates are in contact with a significant number of tree owners who own hundreds of thousands of TATFs 2+ million trees.
Simply inspecting your trees on the farms does not un-do damage.
We have a growing movement and have formed a consortium to aggressively pursue, LEGALLY, everyone who has published lies that are damaging the company, TATF/Raleo', and, therefore, ALL TREE-OWNERS INTERESTS.
We have millions of $ of hard-earned capital and harvest proceeds at stake; (these are not PEANUTS) and have enlisted the best legal advice we have found in North and Central America.
COMPETITION, if under the law is, indeed, wonderful.
IF NOT, more to follow.
Untruths, distortions, lies, and other questionable postings?
Just like other competitors did (e.g. Fred & Amy), former dis-credited (maybe fired) employees on this forum need to identify themselves as such.
Credibility is very suspect!
There is another frequent poster here who had a farm nearby TATF and has never fessed up as to the circumstances around his mysterious selling of the trees and farm.
If this is not teak-selling competition for TATF(albeit small), I don't know what is.