Linda is biotch...! LOLz JayKay
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Just looked at the chart. It shows accum/dist dropped and money flow up. Translation: MM shorting and while there are buyers buying. Also shows in the volume spike.
As I type this post, my right palm is itching. $$$
imo of course.
Especially when discussing an amended GSA. That's freakin great news. Good catch Mattchew!
Thanks for providing where the Class 12 verbiage came from. eom
Yes, I agree, all warrants (except the pending Dime ruling). imo/eom
If you are referring to the H warrants, yes, they are cancelled. imo/eom
During the time, it was an option. Cash out or shares or something to that effect, but to day is diff. We should wait and see. imo/eom
It had something to do with H's at the time, when they were suppose to get the new co. Said something to the effect: Shares are to be worth $25 or issued at $25. Maybe someone will remember more clearly.
Keep in mind that this was way before. Today is different.
imo
It was believed to be $25 ($2X) per share, written on one of the pleadings/POR/DS, if memory serves me right. imo/eom
Yes, "executory", it was a typo, LOL. Only someone in the legal field would have caught that!
Well, it all started when DIMEQ was classed as 22 in the POR. Then they filed an adversary proceeding against debtor. They had nothing to lose, but all to gain. I do not know how class 12 came up (could be a clause in amended POR) or if it was prayed by DIMEQ in their pleadings.
Debtor and dimeq went to court ordered mediation. It was fruitless or settlement was not enough for DIMEQ to accept.
Now, all of the sudden Rosie put in clause about class 18 in their pleadings, rather that class 12/class 22, if judge finds debtor breach their agreement.
So as of today, it looks like "all or nothing" for them since we are now waiting on a ruling any day now (now really all or nothing, but it depends on the class they end up in).
I do not know the exact time line, but I assume this is pretty close. Note, I am not really following the DIMEQ case closely.
imo
Under normal circumstances, I would categorized DIMEq as a warrant and void as an excretory contract, however, this one is different in which it was attached to litigation proceeds. Litigation tracking warrant was a bad name for these securities.
DIMEq adversary proceeding is derived from a alleged breach of contract that resulted in a claim against the WMI estate.
That claim, if prevailed against WMI, will categorized as a creditor (Class 12 or 18). Rosie is saying subordinate the claim, ie Class 18.
There is no ambiguity. You can either be equity or debt/creditor.
If the Court finds that the LTWs are equity then the LTW holders have claims in Class 21. If the Court finds in favor of the Plaintiffs on their breach of contract claim, and finds the LTWs are not equity securities, then the LTW holders have claims in Class 18.
My post was in regards to a settlement.
I agree, if there was not enough to reach commons through litigation or a regular straight forward plan, then commons get zilch, however, it is expected that there will be a settlement and common will be part of it. That is the consensus. Roise has even stated publicly that he wanted commons to receive a distribution (but we all know it was for releases).
I do agree and have voiced it on a few occasions, that I am not very fond of Willingham and I wanted him off the committee because of a conflict of interest.
imo
While all settlements are not the same in every case, imo, absolute priority is a template that should be used, however, not strictly adhered to. Example: Not enough money to flow to commons, however, I am sure preferreds would agree on a fair amount going to commons from preferred' share.
We know SNH is in settlement talks to redistribute their funds to EC (as a group), but it is up to the EC to divide amongst the equity classes. We can only hope absolute priority is adhered to.
The variable we have, imo, is Willingham since he owns only commons and what the other EC board members are made up of, however, Willingham is still going to be compensated (via Trustee Lit trust/Liq Trust, etc.) it he takes the either litigation route or settlement route.
If the EC (Willingham) unfairly distributes the $$, I am sure there will be objections to the new proposed reorg plan from either TPS, Preferreds, Dimeq (if the are class 22), etc.
This is assuming there is a settlement of course.
IMO of course.
My reliance was on this: http://www.sidedraught.com/stocks/WashingtonMutual/DIME-LTW/302.pdf
See Footnote No. 26, at page 80 (PDF 90):
If the Court finds that the LTWs are equity then the LTW holders have claims in Class 21. If the Court finds in favor of the Plaintiffs on their breach of contract claim, and finds the LTWs are not equity securities, then the LTW holders have claims in Class 18.
Probably because it cited zero authority or case law. imo/eom
Dudebug:
Disallowance can only come from litigation, in which case, any funds from disallowance will flow in the order of the water fall of absolute priority. I agree with the other posts you saw.
My post was about settlement, a voluntary redistribution (nice word for disallownace) of SNHs funds. SHN's funds redistributed to their direction (to the EC) since it was their money they received from the waterfall. The settlement is mainly between SHN and EC. Using the BK model of absolute priority, the $$ stops at H's.
The DIMEq is a variable of where it is placed in the water fall (in a settlement).
* Class 12, they get paid. (above H)
* Class 18, they get shafted again (because waterfall won't reach them) or "go away money". The $337 reserved is redirected back into the water fall to H's to slow the H's burn rate. (Below H)
* Class 22, conversion to NEW common at a to be determined ratio. (Above Commons)
Or heck, they may not have a claim, but we will see and wait for Walrath's ruling)
Don't anyone trade on what I post.
imo
LOL We all know Chiron. eom
Maybe before you bought DIMEQ shares but since you're a new holder, they're equity ...lol
Bankruptcy Court Authorizes Insider Trading Claims Against Hedge Funds
Eric B. Fisher and Katie L. CoopermanContactAll Articles
New York Law Journal
December 1, 2011
Dickstein Shapiro's Eric B. Fisher and Katie L. Cooperman discuss Washington Mutual's collapse and how a recent, related decision from the Delaware Bankruptcy Court serves as an important bellwether for distressed investors pursuing activist strategies in bankruptcies, even as the bondholders pursue their appeal from the decision.
I think that is why is has bodyguards with him in court. LOL eom
Here is my other theory on the cover of shorts through DIMEQ:
There is no way to convert DIMEQ to commons because you cannot execute a "warrant" for new shares while in BK, plus, with the ownership restriction in place by the court in favor of NOLs, there is no way to convert to commons without upsetting the 5% (%4.x) change of ownership rule inposed by the IRS to maintain NOL carry forwards.
How does Rosie get around diluting commons (Assuming class 22)? He will use a ratio of conversion of old securities (DIMEQ, Commons, and preferreds, TPS w/ their own ratios, some better than the other, but preferreds are equal)) to new commons securities. So, IMO, you can't use DIMEQ to convert to commons to cover any shorts in WAMUQ.
Rosie accomplishes the same thing, but just took a different avenue.
When he brought up the Class 18, is what got me thinking about it. One does NOT propose something without an intent.
My opinion of course.
He is a 'crafty' one. Even if all parties we're to settle, they could cover the 40 mil SHORT wth a 1.5 million purchase of DIMEQ. It's why I bought DIMEQ a long time ago...This class 18 stuff has me looking at it strangely, but I think DIMEQ would just appeal that to a higher court. 12 or equity. All of a sudden Rosie says 18?!? Serious jail time for a lot of peeps is in order over the BK and the court BS.
Even a decent settlement wouldn't be true justice IMO...
Too many revisions, there is really more to it, I have to get back to work
Here is a very interesting theory in which why Rosie included a clause (in
one of the recent pleadings) in which DIMEQ to be in Class 18. It was initially because DIMEQ was going to be Class 12 OR Class 22 ONLY (cant remember which Class was directly above commons).
Rosie still intends to screw DIMEQ and here is how.
Under a settlement, H's is where the distribution stops (Absolute Priority). Now if Rosie is successful in putting DIMEQ in Class 18 (under H), the distribution does not reach there (below H) anyways because of the burn rate on the estate and no funds to distribute, then DIMEQ is still unpaid.
Now, under this settlement, it is, as we all presume, the SNHs are the ones giving up THEIR money (Absolute Priority) to equity, not the Estates. So in this scenario, all classes get paid except DIMEQ because distribution stops at H's and SNH give up "whatever" to equity.
If Dimeq were to be in Class 22, then I assume commons get less from settlement, BUT EC wants more to compensate their dilution. This is where mediation parties are waiting on a DIMEQ ruling to see how more has to come from SHNs, ie $337 million.
In other words, Rosie wants DIMEQ to be in Class 18, below H where distribution does not even reach. If not 18, then Class 22.
In the end, DIMEQ might end up with "nuisance" money if in Class 18. If in Class 22, with commons. I doubt, class 12. Rosie is trying to subordinate.
IMO, speculators might think Class 18 is a win, but if you look at the totality of circumstance, it may not be a true win if distribution stops at H's. Class 12 would be a true win, imo.
I must say, Rosie is very crafty and a genius, we (as equity) are just on opposite sides.
Strictly a thought and speculation.
She (Bopfan) is a bankruptcy attorney. eom
Here is a Bopfan post (approx. 12:15 PST/3:15 EST, November 30, 2011) for all you fans out there:
The thing to keep in mind is that Judge Walrath's role is that of claims adjudicator. That said, the DIMEQ claimants have asserted a claim against the debtors which will be assessed for its validity as a legal matter. The claim can only be based on (1) contract (express or implied) or (2) tort. In the case of (1) the debtors would have had to have a contractual obligation (with all the elements of contract satisfied and no defenses). In the case of (2) the debtors will have had to have become liable to the DIMEQ claimants under a tort theory (i.e., the debtors did something wrong and have to compensate the claimants for that wrong).
Like many of you I have enjoyed Art Steinberg's court performances, though I have not been following the DIMEQ matter closely. Now that I have focused on it, however, my view is that Art must show that his clients have a valid claim under (1) or (2) or he is out of luck. It is my conjecture that mediation was delayed as a signal to Judge Walrath that the mediating parties want/need a resolution on DIMEQ to complete their negotiations, and I expect that she will accommodate them, otherwise we can expect another mediation delay.
I further conjecture that Steinberg's clients were offered some amount but that it was unsatisfactory and they decided to go for all or nothing.
That 'nothing' is a very real possibility, because if there is no valid tort or contract claim that's precisely what the DIMEQ interests will get. Simply stated, it isn't whether DIMEQs are properly characterized as debt or equity, but whether they are entitled to ANY priority in the WMI estate (i.e., WMI has any obligation to them whatsoever). If the DIMEQs have no valid claim, a contingent $337MM liability is removed from the waterfall.
Agree, settlement this year 2011:
We all know that this is especially true for Willingham since he "only has commons" and that is the ONLY why commons will see anything.
Does Willingham take the settlement which will give commons something, since he only owns commons?
Does Willingham pursue litigation and send commons down the river, including his common holding (assuming GSA in effect)?
Bottom line:
Litigation = Absolute priority strictly enforced and commons zero'ed out (assuming GSA in effect).
Settlement = Commons gets something on the backs of preferreds.
Either way he decides, Willingham is covered because he will be on the Trustee Board and Litigation Trust, etc. drawing income in the millions.
He makes the most money on a Settlement scenario. So settlement it is.
We know that a "bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush."
imo
"I wasn't going to reply to you but..."
Let me know when you take off your "rose colored" glasses and realized your investment here vanished. Oh wait, you can always sell at BID, assuming there is one.
Have a nice night thinking about it.
imo
WAMUQ is f**ed if there is no settlement. LEHNQ is screwed period. Take off your "rose colored" glasses and face reality. Have a nice day. imo
I corrected your post for you:
So its definitely emerging from bankruptcy. I guess most are waiting closer to judge Peck decision, Bloomberg states he will approve. Good for those who got OUT early.
Wow, vodoo, this is probably the most sane post of yours. Congrats. Ha ha
here's voodoos take ,not like anyone wants to hear it but here it is...i'll start off with i don't give a rats arse about the p's k's h's z's t's a's ,i'm all about the mega payout u's ...ok i'll admit i do hope we all are happy in the end..but we are here for 1 reason and that reason is the u's..they know there is mega potential for unbelieveable gains on the u's ,in which they don't wanna pay and also the naked shorts on the u's ..i remember rosen on numerous occasions even unexpected at most trying his best to scare u holders to sell saying there is no money no money for common equity ,even stooping way down low to even call us (his clients) VULTURES ,who does this ..someone who does this is desperate and it's very obvious it's a tactic to me ,someone who tries so hard ,is doing it for a reason period ...to get into this so called millionere club it's very hard and they don't want none of us vultures to get into it ,so they will try everything .they all know there is billins of dollars missing and they are all caught ,they just don't know how to pay it out on top of the naked shorts...but i feel the payout will only be to certain holders of u's up to a certain date also shares in the new co....that's my take ..so u can say rosen basically made me buy n hold to this date
99.99999999...% totally screwed, yes. imo/eom
Thanks for the information. eom
Thanks Mordi. eom
Volume straight upshot up along with Accum/dist & money flow (today's chart).
Anyone have lvl II who can tell who is on BID and if they are an old player or new player coming on?
TIA
I agree, if you look at the accum/dit chart along with money flow for today (not the daily chart), it looks like the retail sold while the MM bought. Accum/Dist went straight up.
imo
I really have no idea since I really do not follow Dimeq much, but them being the ones who brought and financed the adversary proceeding, and then all of the sudden stop, makes you wonder.
At the time Debtors did NOT want to mediate with DImeq, but Walrath forced them into a mandatory mediation. At the end, mediation between them was fruitless.
Now, I do not know the timing between the mediation between debtors and Dimeq, or if they were related in Broadbill dismissing themselves from the adversary proceeding because something they found out from mediation.
So my thoughts are: Either the Debtors knows something and are very confident (despite them giving bad oral arguments in court and Walrath is a reader, NOT a listener), or Broadbill knows something and decided to dismiss themselves from the action.
Again, I do not follow dimez so this is all speculation on my part.
imo
I agree with all the delays in the past, but these delays now is better in the long run since we, as the EC, are part of the ones at the table this time.
Litigation will ruin everybody, especially the commons (assuming GSA remains intact) and the HFs.
imo
What is really interesting and I do not know why (and no one talks about), is the lead Plaintiff, Broadbill, gave up or otherwise no longer the Plaintiff. They were the ones (or major one) financing the adversary proceeding against the Debtors.
I do NOT know why or whether they found out "something" and found they were no longer interested in continuing the fight.
imo
Yes, I agree, however, this time we are tooooo close to a settlement to take a risk of being out of the market.
HF have a lot more to lose (in terms of reputation, run-off of their clients, investigations by SEC/DOJ, etc, third party lawsuits, etc. etc. etc.) going the litigation route. and they know it. They would effective file their own BK of their own firms.
I am sure every one knows, once they sell, that is when the settlement comes out.
All speculation of course.
Good night all.
imo
MARY WALRATH READ THIS ,THIS IS WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE A REAL JUDGE .FROM JUDGE RAKOFF “An application of judicial power that does not rest on facts is worse than mindless, it is inherently dangerous,” Judge Rakoff wrote in the case, S.E.C. v. Citigroup Global Markets. “In any case like this that touches on the transparency of financial markets whose gyrations have so depressed our economy and debilitated our lives, there is an overriding public interest in knowing the truth.”
The S.E.C. in particular, he added, “has a duty, inherent in its statutory mission, to see that the truth emerges.”
I concur! imo/eom
Yes, approx. $7.5 B (TPS included), however, hedgies also own preferreds, so we don't know if they will give up some as part of a settlement. imo
Off the top of my head, I believe the amount was/is $337 mil reserved. imo/eom