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Dyno, I agree, but believe that part of the problem is the 2.5+ years of non-stop control. Anyone who's been watching this for any period of time, knows the pattern, and has seen over and over and over. etc... again, that regardless of news, big names, test results, etc..., they're just not going to allow it to move up. Also, they know it will never be addressed by Charles & Co., so instead of of buying in (they know their $$/investment will sit stagnant & lose value), they sit on the fence and wait for a sign that the control is ending or they invest somewhere else where their $$ actually works for them.
Not bashing here, but seriously. We've all seen/know the pattern, and therefore we know what to expect, so I personally don't blame them for staying on the fence until something changes. Right now its the same thing every day. Typically we see an early morning teaser, followed by a10:30AM takedown, then the end of day 2:30 takedown. We're dealing with 6 non-Joe-Retail MM's (7 when we get close to .10 and VIRT joins in) that hold us under 05 at all costs, are in complete control, and do as they wish. Maybe when this changes, we'll begin to see retail come back, but I just don't see it happening prior to something changing. But that's just me...
Good Morning ENZC! Another Shocker today! OTCN holding at 05, but not low enough for INTL, so they drop to 0491. Also it now appears that trashy-ALPS is joining in on the fun, sitting at 0505. The number of NON-Retail MM's coordinating to maintain the chokehold at 05 or under, is just insane, but oh well.... Just another day in the life of the ENZC shareholder.
Catpole, I would typically agree here, as I'd expect it as well, but with Charles statement in that first SAGA PR that "ENZC will continue trading on pinks," I'm not so sure. Hopefully we get some actual clear clarification as it pertains to ENZC in next weeks update.....
Yup. They can't allow it over 05 Catpole. Anytime we breach 05, they're back immediately. Also, earlier I noticed that our buddy is STXG is selling in the 05s too. So the conclusion I come to is that this is not going to be allowed to move up with the ridiculous number of non-Joe-Retail MM's controlling it (PUMA, OTCN, INTL, STXG, AEXG, and if we ever get back over .10, which I know is laughable right now, VIRT comes back). 2.5+ years of complete control
I hear what your saying 29, but this has been going on for 2.5+ years, and there are some rather simple and cheap solutions out there. I've listed 1 below.. Also, I'm not so sure that we're dealing with naked shorting anymore, as those who have been in control have more than enough shares at this point to control it as they wish. Back in 2021 I would've agreed, as the initial "Coordinated Takedown" that took place during/after Charles's interview at the "Emerging Growth Conference," was 100% coordinated to allow crooks to cover their FTD's (I took a snippet of OTCM showing "Significant Failures to Deliver" back then).
Anyway, my point being that our pps has been illegally controlled for a very long time, and the only thing that we've ever gotten from Charles & Co. was the bumper sticker slogan of "Don't Chase Daily PPS." I personally don't consider 2.5+ years of a non-stop beatdown & control as "chasing daily pps." However, that said, we can agree to disagree just as well, and thats ok, as I still appreciate your input on the board....
https://shareintel.com/
I doubt they're actually stepping back 29, as they're still ensuring we remain under .05... Yes, we get a teaser a few fractions of a cent above 05 every once in a while, but the chokehold remains. We'll also need to see what they do when we get to 2:30-4pm to know for sure, as that is when we see the typical takedown...
Catpole, I can't speak for anyone else, but with me, if it weren't for the 2.5+ year non-stop coordinated beatdown going completely unaddressed by the company, I would care less about the delays. We commons shareholders have been illegally kicked in the teeth day in/out , and have dealt with unprecedented coordinated-control over our pps for 2.5+ years, and not once has it been addressed or any action whatsoever taken to bring it to an end. That is what bothers me more than anything... I don't view 2.5+ years as "chasing daily prices," as some have suggested.
As I have posted many times, being driven into the ground with any/all good news over the past 2.5+ years is not normal/organic. The VIRT+OTCN/X synced-up-algo-tagteam that takes over anytime we breach .10, without buying or selling any shares, is not normal/organic, nor could it even be considered anything remotely close to "making a market." The coordination between several non-retail MM's to "chokehold" this under 05, is not organic. These things bother me more than anything, as I believe that Charles has a responsibility to at the very least address it, and see what options are available to end it.
It's not. Charles doesn't give news anymore. He drops fluff and/or provides more questions.... Oh well... Let's see how low they drive us at the end of today. We know it's coming with 100% certainty, just don't know how low they'll go... And as I said earlier, I really don't like seeing ALPS on L2. They are garbage, and usually only see them on garbage tickers.
Of course. Makes perfect sense! I found it on OTCN... Unfortunately I don't believe anything will drive ENZC until the control ends or is addressed. Also, I definitely think we need the following, pulled from PR. Although I don't know what "the first week of July 10th" means. Not sure why they said first week vs week of, but that's just me...
The Company, assisted by Sagaliam Acquisition Corp. ("NASDAQ:SAGA"), is preparing a supplemental information filing to give insight into the SAGA transaction and offer explanations to some of the shareholder questions surrounding the sale of ENZC's operating subsidiaries, Virogentics ("VIRO") and Biogenysis ("BGEN"). The filing is expected to be completed the first of the week of July 10th.
What news? Did Charles actually follow through with providing more details to ENZC shareholders?
Yup…. Somewhere around .15, but when there is and has been completely unaddressed coordination to maintain it below a certain pps, we shouldn’t expect anything else….
Unbelievable. L2 now showing the lowest of the low MM’s, which is not a good sign for pps. ALPS showing on L2, so I interpret as a sign that we can expect to see them drop this further.
ALPS is literally the scum at the bottom of the barrel
I wish I knew CK. Class Action? It genuinely blows my mind that it's gone on for 2.5+ years, yet has NOT been addressed a single time. Doesn't appear to be getting any better any time soon. If anything, the chokehold has grown tighter.
Sure would, but it's obvious that's not gonna happen. Charles refuses to address it for some reason, and has done so for the full 2.5+ years...
We can always count on that end of day TakeDown at ENZC! Never fails. Wash+Rinse+Repeat tomorrow, as we continue to sit in muzzle-silence
I fixed it for you below Catpole.... I completely agree, although I still view this as the understatement of the century...
The exciting thing is that we have all these developments with a stock that is extremely & INTENTIONALLY undervalued.
Correct Catpole. Although I don't believe they're diluting right now, I think they're selling the newly unrestricted shares, which were already a part of our OS (not the float, but OS). The part that I've found strange is that they (OTCN) worked in tandem with VIRT back in May to drive this pps down, before they started selling. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense if they're truly just selling for $$. Why not let it go and stay above .05, .10, and sell for more? Unless they have some prearranged deal with whoever PUMA represents, it doesn't make any sense.
I hear ya. Until we get something from Charles that gives the missing details we're all speculating about, nobody knows how it will play out. I understand why some are saying X and some are saying Y, but as BT has so eloquently pointed out, we don't know what we don't know, and we won't until Charles puts it out as "fact."
Currently you cannot buy stock in either BGEN or VIRO, but as of right now (pre-deal) they are owned by ENZC. I believe you could buy stock in SAGA at 11.20 per share if you wanted to right now.
No disrespect Dusty, but did you really expect anything different? As long as PUMA retains control, especially while OTCN continues dumping, Groundhog Day continues. Nothing we can do about it. It's ridiculous, I know. C3 by itself puts ENZC > $3pps, and even if we just base ENZC value off of the SPAC deal, we should be trading around $0.15.
Anyway, until they are finished allowing PUMA to control this, we can pretty much expect more of the same. Early morning teaser (organic trading), followed by our typical 10:30AM / 2:30PM takedowns. Wash + Rinse + Repeat
I would agree with you Mutat. I've been saying for a while now that I believe whoever's been in control of this pps/stock, is considered a "friend." There is a reason that the coordination/control have gone completely unaddressed/unchecked. If they were doing so at the direction of somebody/somebodies that weren't considered "friendlies", I'd imaging that it would be addressed.
Completely agree BT. 100%
Good job BT. I for one, get it. Nobody's trying to be rude to them and/or acting as though they owe us, but a lot of us have passed up on enormous life-changing gains over the years because we believed what we were being told, and decided to hold/add, so we're just looking for a little clarification to reinforce our decisions.
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That was my question too Dyno. I'm all for it if it's true, but I don't recall seeing any information that suggested such, so I too am wondering where the "selling only 10%-40% of assets" is coming from.
I hear ya Smitty, but point has been that we just don't know at this point. In regards to them taking care of ENZC, the statement that really raised a "red flag" for me after this deal was announced, is when Charles stated in the first PR that "ENZC will continue trading on pinks." For the past 2.5+ years we've been told many times how the audit was such a priority, so they could go SEC Reporting and get out of pinks, bring in BP partners, etc.... leading me and I'm sure many others to believe we would see ENZC appreciate to the true value they've been talking about for 2.5+ years. Now, and this is the part that I hope I'm wrong about, it seems that those plans have went away, and the new plan is keeping ENZC on pinks, and transferring all focus & IP to BGEN/VIRO.
Anyway, I'm hoping/praying that I'm just confused and/or misunderstanding everything, which I'm not ashamed to say is a very real possibility. At this point I'm looking forward to Charles supplying us with more details about the plan for ENZC/ENZC commons, per today's SAGA PR. Until then I am neither for nor against the deal, just waiting for the full picture of the plan for ENZC.
Catpole, I believe it to me more than this. There is obvious coordination between them. PUMA has been in control forever, and they don't go inactive every single time that OTCN takes the lead by coincidence, and then come back when OTCN moves away from the top ask. OTCN comes back, and PUMA moves their ask up.... There is no way that it's a coincidence.
They're all (Non-Joe-Retail MM's) playing games with very little participation from Joe-retail.
If the dividend is coming from the $450M, then the most shares they'd give us would be around 13,339 for every 1M ENZC shares owned, but that would be if they used the full $450M for the dividend, and I don't see that happening.
1 SAGA Share = $11.20 (as of right now today)
1,000,000 ENZC Shares = 0.0332% of ownership
0.0332% = 0.000332
0.000332 x $450,000,000 = $149,400
$149,000 ÷ 11.20 = 13,339 SAGA Shares
However, it believe it more likely that they use $200M or less for the dividend, which would be around 6,039 SAGA shares for every 1,000,000 shares (0.0332% ownership) of ENZC.
Thanks for the info Coach, but again let me say that I am not suggesting that this is good or bad. The details that we don't have and/or that are not out there are what happens to ENZC & us, the commons shareholders. We have held through a nonstop 2.5+ year bloodbath because we were all led to believe that we would see ENZC appreciate to it's true value, while we still own the qty of shares we currently hold. We were told for those 2.5+ years that ENZC was going through 2yr audit, so we could go SEC Reporting and move out of pinks. We were all led to believe that we would be a part of ENZC appreciating to a high enough value, where it would move out of OTC. Now it seems that ENZC will not be doing any of these things, and instead, everything is moving to BGEN/VIRO, where we may end up with same % ownership, but it will be a fraction of the shares we currently own, which is the equivalent of an RS.
With the sale of BGEN, who apparently owns the AI, and VIRO, what is ENZC left with? I know that ENZC will end up with a small % of ownership in the new co, but it will come nowhere close to the Qty of shares that we have each been holding for 2.5+ years. Like I mentioned in other post, if they determine our shares based on % ownership, we would end up with roughly 6,039 SAGA shares for every 1,000,000 shares of ENZC that we own. If ENZC moves into the new co, is this all that we're left with? 6,039 for every 1M ENZC we own?
Anyway, I hope Im explaining this right. I appreciate all of your input and by no means am I suggesting that I believe this deal to be good or bad, just that I want to understand the future of ENZC ticker, what it's left with, and if what we've been told for 2.5+ years is still happening, before I make that determination.
I can't speak for anyone else SA, but I'm assuming they're hitting us right now because we have a $450M deal on the table, PR'd by both Co's involved, which places our value (solely on deal) at .16-.17, However, we're being held via OTCN nonstop unlimited selling under 05. OTCN had taken break until the day those 68M went unrestricted, and then they came back with a vengeance. They sat on top of the ask all day yesterday, and back today, with unlimited asks under 05. I believe they are dumping those 68M newly unrestricted shares.
I agree 100% rockie, but would they come on board/partner with ENZC, or would they partner with SAGA/BGEN? It's starting to make sense to me why all of those toxic-debt holders agreed to hold off and take shares in BGEN/VIRO instead of converting in ENZC....
Yes, until we have more details, we're all left to more guessing/speculation. However, if what we're thinking now, ends up to be correct, the biggest problem I have with all of it is how for 2.5+ years we were all led to believe that we would see monstrous growth/pps appreciation in ENZC. "Don't chase daily PPS." "Be patient. The time will come when we all meat up on yachts (not exact wording, but Chandra replied something along those lines to somebody tweeting about buying a yacht when ENZC hit) " etc...etc...etc....
Also, I went ahead and fixed your quote below Dyno....
but it doesn’t seem like it’s possibly going to be the massive benefits that we were led to believe we'd see and/or that some of us were holding long for
I agree bfast. In regards to hovering below 05, they have been coordinating to hold us under 05 at all costs for quite some time now, and I have no idea why or who is behind it. In addition, 68M shares went unrestricted the other day, so I believe OTCN will continue destroying us until they are all dumped. This raises the inevitable question, if this deal is so good for ENZC shareholders, why are those who probably know more than us (those who've been holding restricted shares) selling their ENZC shares, the second they go unrestricted, instead of holding for a little while longer to get 3X or more for those shares?
I pray that I am JT. Charles statement in today's SAGA PR about having shares in both companies makes me feel a little bit better, but I am still very confused as to what IP ENZC will have after the deal is done. Also, Charles made a statement with the original SAGA deal PR that "ENZC will continue trading on pinks." He made this statement after 2.5+ years of all of the talk about audits & SEC reporting, so ENZC could get out of pinks. Now supposedly his plan is to continue on pinks? That, along with all of the nonstop selling of unrestricted shares, does not inspire confidence for me, in the future of ENZC ticker.
My point and worry, and I don't believe I am alone here, is that I've held ENZC and passed up massive returns, because we were all led to believe that we'd see ENZC (and the qty of shares that we each own) explode in value (realize it's true value), not to see that value, along with our C-Execs, sold to another company, where we'll end up with a tiny fraction of the shares that we currently own in ENZC. I believe SA is right in the way the dividend will be calculated (%), but I don't believe for a second that it would be based off of the full $450M. I believe it would be closer to $200M best case. This would mean that if SAGA's pps was $11, for every 1 million shares (or 0.0332% of ownership), we would get roughly $66,427 in SAGA shares (6,039 shares).
That said, whether or not I view this as bad, good, great, or amazing, completely depends on what happens with ENZC after the deal, as well as what IP do they actually own after the deal? I'm pretty sure ENZC completely loses 100% of the AI platform, as that belongs to BGEN, so best case scenario is that we retain ownership of Clone-3, ITV-1, and all of the other mABS.
I'm not saying that this deal is good or bad for us, as I personally need more details to make that determination.
1. What is the plan for ENZC? Are we remaining on the God-awful pinks, or are we going SEC reporting as promised for 2.5+ years and moving up? For the past 2.5+ years we have been publicly told NOT TO CHASE ENZC DAILY PPS, which suggested that ENZC pps would eventually realize it's true value, and convinced many to hold, while those with restricted shares have been selling non-stop the second their shares went unrestricted. So, does their vision for ENZC include it appreciating to it's true value (C3 Alone presented to us as $9.09B per year)?
2. What IP does ENZC own after the deal? Does that IP have the potential value to move this where we were originally led to believe it was going?
3. When Charles talks about future BP partners, are they going to partner with ENZC or with the SAGA/BGEN/VIRO?
Anyway, like I said, I'm not suggesting that this deal is good or bad, as I don't have the info to make that determination yet. However, based on everything that they've shared thus far, leads me to believe that the value we were waiting to see in ENZC, is being moved to BGEN (AI + C3 + other mABS).
Not really, but why start now? Anyway, I'm done for the day. We've got at least 60-68M shares to move through before we even have a chance of being allowed over 05, and then we still need to deal with PUMA, so still a way's to go... However, when buying stops today, OTCN will start whacking bids and drive us right back down. I've seen this movie before... In fact, I've seen this movie for about 900 days straight now... Gives a new definition to the word "rerun"