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So, will the Translock system replace the T-AGG, or be in addition to it? Also, does anyone know its patent status?
This just shows how hard management is working toward eventual major contributions to the energy drilling businesses.
I think S. Korea was an entirely different, and much smaller deal. It included a secrecy agreement, it was for Korean plants only, and I suspect it was for technology only to produce sucrose( using SucreSource). Korea apparently does not have the strong desire to make cellulosic ethanol that China does.
I do think the DOE may reverse their decision, since all the rest of financing plus construction is now available. Also, the DOE has a lot of clean energy failures on its record, and a highly successful grant for cellulosic ethanol now could reinstate a lot of respect to the DOE.
Of course, Zerov, but license revenue would not become very significant for a while. The Chinese will need to study the Fulton process for a while, etc. and then plants in China could take a few years to plan and become numerous enough to become significant to Bluefire income.
That means revenues for Fulton should be around 35-40 million $/yr, depending on ethanol prices, and that maximum plant capacity of 19 mgpy is generally maintained.
BFRE will probably need to pay a big part of that amount to pay down the loan. Fortunately, they will not need to watch the price of corn to see if they will be profitable! It will be interesting to see how long they will need to come into profitability, once the plant comes up to capacity production!
I would expect future plants will be made with much higher capacities, depending on raw material availability and type.
Revenue should be about 19 million times the price/gal of ethanol.
I think there is a good chance of a reversal in the DOE decision, now that BFRE has both the construction contract, and financing for all except the DOE amount promised earlier. Another incentive for the DOE is to offset the Solyndra crisis with a final favorable result of their grants.
That all may be eventually determined by company lawyers and available BFRE stock?
However, I think there is a lot of good-will between these companies, since both have much at stake here: China with increasing trash and ecological considerations, and Bluefire with a superior and partially-proven technology, with a need for financing and construction expertise to begin building up a good company that can benefit many nations in future years.
I suspect the 5 US plants will belong to BLuefire, but the China plants will likely be owned by Three Gorges, using BLuefire technology and patent rights, etc.
Once Bluefire develops US expertise, and builds capital, they will likely build more US plants, and eventually export their unique technology to other nations. It will be interesting to hear what Klann has to say about future plans, once Fulton gets fully financed and then operating!
remember, too, the BFRE process can be applied to any number of organic raw materials, depending what is most readily available and/or lowest in price.
Remember, that Bluefire does have a semi-commercial pilot plant experience in Japan a few years ago, including positive economic and yield results, all of which points to success on the first commercial plant. I think this background was helpful to the Chinese ( and Koreans) in making their decision to go ahead with Bluefire's technology.
Five plant contract with Three Gorges will probably each require separate financing, which in turn may not be completely available until the first plant is a proven success, both operationally and financially?
Anyone have more insight into this?
Wow, it sounds like the Chinese companies are as excited as most of us!
I noticed Pres. Klann is seeking additional financing sources if the DOE won't reverse their earlier decision. With the two Chinese deals just announced, it should be much easier now to fund the remaining 30M$ to begin construction. If you ask me, the DOE really needs to continue their original committments in order to offset the earlier failures, such as Solyndra.
Maybe this was based on a technology based on enzymes that didn't work out, and now the Chinese have turned to a proven process, which BLuefire's happens to be!
I think it's more like 19m gal/year. Fulton has been planned now for several years, way before Bluefire began talking with the Chinese, I think.
Remember, they talked with a Korean company first, and did something under a non-disclosure agreement, so we have very little info on that. It is my guess that BLuefire only provided technology and license agreements, and that it may have been only for the production of sucrose, which is the purpose of SucreSource. Very likely, they have at least one plant already in operation in Korea, from which the Korean company would be able to produce final products obtainable from sucrose, using their own technology.
This is all speculation on my part, but it seems the Chinese have a much deeper interest in Bluefire's entire process, and may be planning on a HUGE ramp-up in cellulosic ethanol production capability, in close cooperation with Bluefire?
Spidaman, thanks for the excellent review of the early pilot work done in Japan with the Arkenol/Bluefire patented concentrated acid hydrolysis technology for producing ethanol( and other potential products obtainable from sucrose).
It appears the Chinese are being much more visionary here than the Japanese, who have not done much with this process, that I know of, since this work was done some years ago.
One thing not recently mentioned, is that BFRE has already proven their process in Japan a few years ago, whereas most competitors with different means of extracting sucrose from cellulosic materials, still must build pilot plants to prove out their production efficiencies and economics.
So, the Fulton plant will be a full-scale, final production proving plant, with an expected high probability of success. Both Bluefire and the Chinese should benefit from studying its initial runs, which should provide ideas on how to tweak the process for maximum efficiencies.
China will probably build much bigger plants than Fulton, depending on the amount of feedstocks available at each location. They have a vital interest in helping BFRE here in Fulton, MS, as it will determine the viability of building plants in China, once the Fulton plant has proven the economics, and other aspects of the cellulosic process.
remember, ethanol isn't the only product that sucrose can be converted into, either. Some other products may be more important to China than ethanol?
Even if they don't get money for taking the trash, they will have a MUCH lower raw material cost than companies that buy corn for ethanol feedstock. Also, in some places it may be more beneficial to produce other chemicals from the sucrose(sugar) that is the first product to come out of their concentrated acid hydrolysis process.
Another thing, not mentioned in discussing Chinese deals, is the question of adding woodchips in Fulton for sale to Europeans. My guess is, that will not be needed under the Chinese financing package, and a separate plant for that, may not be needed now.
The DOE needs a success here as much as Bluefire does, in light of their poor record so far in funding bad new energy deals, such as Solyndra.
For them to now reverse their earlier decision to discontinue the Bluefire funding could become one of their wisest choices in a long time, and hugely improve their record in backing successful new technologies.
Does anyone know if this will allow plant construction without needing the DOE to change their last decision to refuse further funding?
It seems the Import-Export Bank of China committment has been available for a few weeks now, but the DOE piece is still needed to complete the whole financing package.
I sure hope the DOE does reverse their decision, as they themselves
really need a good success story to counter the earlier disasters in renewable energy projects. I truly believe Klann and his team have the fortitude to move on to success, once financing is completed.
From reviewing Bluefire's process and economics reported on their website, I really feel, as a Chemical Engineer from the petrochemical industry, that Bluefire has the potential of becoming a huge winner in producing valuable products both economically and ecologically efficient.
Newsmen report a MORE than 50% probability of Republicans winning the Senate next month. Think what a conservative President could then do for the economy, including energy, if elected in 2016? [:^)
Geodon, nothing to do with Bluefire. The whole OTC market is shut due to an unspecified glitch! [:^(
The higher volumes have been on the upside today, showing favor from investors also!
Not sure anything has been requested of SucreSource, unless it possibly could have been involved in the Korean deal? They have a secrecy agreement, so very little has been reported.
As I understand it, sucrose(sugar) is the initial product of the concentrated acid hydrolysis process. It takes additional, standardized processes to then produce ethanol, and/or other chemicals from the sugar. It is possible that some companies may wish to only use the Bluefire to extract sugar out of the waste raw materials, and then apply their own processes to continue with final products.
Thanks, Chiefs, that really encourages me!
Guess that settles its location in Slidell. The next question is: When will plant redesign begin? Same question regarding the Transprop AGG?
I understood they have a secrecy agreement with Korea. My guess is, they have already built at least one plant using Bluefire concentrated acid technology. We may not get actual reports from Bluefire about this , however.
I think BFRE is very wise to partner with this company, and with China, as I believe its growth could even bring the Chinese economy comparable with our own in another two or three years.
The partnership could greatly aid China too, as they build plants using Bluefire Technology, to economically convert waste materials into useful sucrose, and/or all the chemicals it can be converted into, in addition to ethanol.
All this should produce a win-win deal for all involved.
I have no idea, HV. Someone mentioned Slidell on this board, I think. Maybe whoever it was will explain their source?
I wonder if Slidell is really where it's at? They say New Orleans, and Slidell is a separate city, across a significant body of water from New Orleans?
I have heard similar things. Of course, it won't really get going until full financing is in place. However, this new agreement should now empower that process, and maybe even spark a turn-around within the DOE's willingness to help after all!
I am convinced Pres. Klann is a man of integrity, and would not knowingly allow untruths in company documents! JMHO.
The only patent I am aware of, and I think that is still a patent application, is for the Transprop AGG shipping system.
Amen to that!!! I do believe his integrity and patience will be rewarded by a major breakthrough in financing!
Hopefully, the DOE will realize they have a potential winner here to make up for the losers they have financed to date, and change their minds about not backing BFRE!
Very encouraging! It shouldn't be much longer now before new buyers come in!
I doubt if there is any set time, but it seems to have been going on now for a few months.
Haven't much about any possible China deal(s) for a while either. Last I recall, they were talking with an engineering company, and at least one Chinese bank?
Anyone have anything to add here?
I think in another year or so, we will be thinking of ddcc as a Lion( King of beasts)! [:?)
I'm with you guys, RR$ and HV. I also know who released the fracking technology/understanding to US businessmen at this time when other "fossile fuel" recovery methods were beginning to falter!
This technology is helping America regain our leadership and positive influence in the world, and companies like DDCC are becoming increasingly important factors in that overall process.
That's very exciting news, ProfitScout! America is on its way to reducing Federal debt as we ramp up energy exports in coming years!
I wonder how much gas and oil needs to be extracted from shale miles below the earth's surface before we stop calling it, "fossil" fuels!
Well, Profit Scout, we now know which way it is going! Mostly upticks today, and "the sky is the limit", for now! [:^)
I truly believe this is finally the time for the cellulosic process, as applied to low-cost raw materials by companies like BFRE with efficient technologies, to take off around the world.
If (or WHEN) the DOE realizes they have missed backing a potential big winner, and reverses their grant decision for BFRE, I expect the other financing pieces to come together, to begin their building new plants in China, the US, and around the world.