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It's not permissible to criticize management?
of either WAVX or INTC? Are you serious? I've already protested your arbitrary and nonsensical censorship practices with regard to this latest message to Sheriff Matt. It should be interesting to see his reaction. I'm giving five to one he lets you do whatever you want.
P.S. There was not a SINGLE crude word in that post.
Snackman: Why did you delete my post?
There was no personal attack involved. Unless you have expanded the scope to include critical comments directed toward management.
24601: True, but you forget...
that rationale preceded Steven's flight to California in which he may or may not have held a gun to his own head while negotiating with INTC. The alternative to that theory (one, anyway) is that Steven has only been posing as a bumbling silver-spooned rich boy all these years and that he actually is a genius (who makes music videos on the side) who rope-a-doped the idiots at Intel.
Doma: Unfortunately, I must protest just a little...
[Suppressed Sound Link]
We try to keep a civil tongue here.
That's three-and-out for me. Ciao!
ZEN: Permit me to politely suggest...
[Suppressed Sound Link]
Bluefang: Your acronym-post is a model...
of lucid prose compared to the "intro" to this here Wavoid "bar and grill", which reads like Babelfish doing a translation from English-to-Polish-to-French-to-Spanish-to-Portuguese-back-to-English again.
DDD: So, following your reasoning...
SunW must have made just tons of money off java. Right? Guess what? They didn't. They sacrificed profitability for ubiquity. WAVX is headed down the same path in my ever-so-humble opinion. Except they might end up with neither profitability nor ubiquity.
Steven to that EFF guy post-conference...
talking about what happens if things don't get a move-on with TCG...
[Suppressed Sound Link]
Kevin: It's TRANCE on line 2...
[Suppressed Sound Link]
Just joshin!
Doma: I actually believe...
there may be something of value in the WAVE intellectual property. And, furthermore, that some portion of the workforce may well be competent. It's a shame that these folks have been held back by the glaring ineptitude of top management and stifled by rampant nepotism. A company in this space needs professional leadership to get it from point A to point B. Not a bunch of silver-spoon-fed children. But, hey, maybe they'll make it anyway.
Bluefang: I don't think it's product-related...
so much as a credibility thing. Anybody who follows stocks in the space WAVX inhabits knows by now that this is a family-operated company that is poorly managed and given to issuing PRs at the drop of a hat. You have a CEO who defended the "makability" of a $20 million revenue projection in the seventh month of a year in which it fell 95% short of that number. You have a company who "launches" things like the Envoy, that never see the light of day. You have management spending $7 million to buy an internet portal in order to obtain "talent" in the midst of a crashing technology market awash in cheap "talent". You have $10 million deals with garment-industry sharks that never result in a dime of real income. You have joint ventures with folks who line their hats with tin foil. You have a need for a new CEO in the only subsidiary of the company and, amazingly, the best person in the technology world for the post happens to have the same last name as the other CEO. No, Blue, it's not about the product at this point. It's that the rest of the world is more than a little leery of this group. I think the watchword going forward, frankly, is gonna be: SHOW ME THE MONEY!
zen, zen, zen...
[Suppressed Sound Link]
Also, tofu...
While you have been horribly, terribly, awfully wrong on those numerous points you listed, certain of us were just as equally right on many of them. (Booth, Finread, SSPX, etc., etc., etc.). It is not unheard of to connect a degree of credibility to a person's history in such matters. In fact, some rational people who know about investing actually insist on it. The truth is, I think you're about to be horribly, terribly, awfully wrong one more time. But, hey, maybe this time I'll be. Ya never know. Could happen.
Tofu-saint: Here's what your dream meant...
You know, the one where you are chatting with William F. Buckley and he's sitting on your, gasp, left and then you both take to lookin for swans?
Well, the fact that Buckley is on your left means that his symbolism is not political in nature. I believe it signifies his stature as a wordsmith. (One may be entirely opposed to everything he stands for politically and still be willing to concede his command of the language.) The swans symbolize beauty. Which means, possibly, that your creative instincts are being stymied by the pragmatic aspects of your work.
Of course, I could be wrong.
doma: Thank God you reconnected...
to the Kool-Aid Katheter! For a minute there you almost had a rational expectation. I like it better when you insist on immediate world dominion and a $100 billion market cap. Otherwise, it's like the world's gone crabby!
That's it for me today! Thanks again Matt for allowing me to express my opinions, even if it is for a meager three posts per day.
Rachel, my dear...
That $30 per annum ain't ever gonna be WAVE's. The big boys are busy salivating over it even as we speak. A little foot-dragging here, a little bureaucratic obstacle there, and poof, two years pass and the revenue stream is up for grabs. If there, in fact, is any such revenue stream, which I sincerely doubt. Do you imagine the folks at MSFT are sitting on their hands during this time? In this cynical day and age, it's almost refreshing to come upon such a naive and optimistic group of folks!
PS. ICBW
PPS TO KITE-SURF: GE is a lot of things but one thing they ain't is magnanimous. You might want to check with Webster on this.
Kevin: Finread will probably be big!
I expect to see the revenues rolling in any day now. Right after the KidCard money.
24601: Yes, the world was nuts...
Wavoids, however, were hyper-delusional. You may recall my reaction at the time. I believe the words I used were: Utter Insanity! Which, naturally, drew the usual brickbats. Bigtim posted a message containing a dozen reasons why it wasn't an unreasonable prediction. Classic stuff. Those were the days!
By the way, where is Bigtim?
That's it for me today! Cheers.
24601: If it takes that long...
to deploy 20 million TPMs, the company will dilute and dilute and dilute some more in order to even survive that long. Heck, Doma thinks it'll be about that many per month!
mannomur: Since you keep mentioning me...
may I remind you of the last time there was a contest of this nature? The infamous Donald Duck contest? And may I remind you who the winner of that contest was? The $20 values are, of course, not nearly as loony as the truly insane expectations evidenced in the Donald Duck contest, which if I recall correctly, was $187 per share. However, as always, delusional thinking prevails. My own guess would be:
July 4, 2013. If ever. Of course, I could be wrong.
Vacationhouse: Just a little bit TOO QUICK...
to be convincing. The press release timed at 8:30 A.M. Your IHUB post timed two minutes later! I always suspected you were being fed inside information along with God knows who else. Come clean, VH. Confession is good for the soul!
Doma: No wonder you project 25 million units sold...
or whatever that ridiculous number was. You, apparently alone amongst the Wavoids, at least recognize the miniscule per unit revenues this Intel deal represents. Oh, well, the folks in Lee can keep pumping out the PR and selling stock into it!
24601: Speaking on behalf of the glib critics...
I have the following responses:
1. As to a gorilla ever acknowledging WAVE at its website, this is a function of WAVE's new role as pawn in the INTC/MSFT match.
2. See point 1.
3. See point 1.
4. It appears that WAVE has closed a real deal with INTC, but I believe they were able to hammer Steven at the bargaining table to the point of his virtually giving the product away. So, yes, they're shipping something, presumably not boxes filled with styrofoam. The question is whether there is any sort of material revenue stream to come from it. As you can imagine, I remain a skeptic.
Cheers,
24601: I classify myself with those...
who predicted that WAVE revenues in the 4th quarter of 2002 would be less than $2 million. I believe you fell in the opposing camp. I doubt they will reach that quarterly figure at any time in 2004, either. Possibly for the entire year they might book that level of revenue.
24601: Spouting off on how things might unfold...
is what people do on message boards. I don't see any objections to Barge, Awk, Doma, etc., etc., etc., offering their insights on what the future might hold.
Dell wants to see if the customers are there...
and, yes, they certainly do get it. My guess is they remain skeptical whether their competition's desire for something to drive sales will amount to anything the customer actually wants. There is a reason why they are the leader in their field.
Barge: SKS claiming that WAVE "owns the space"...
is akin to President Luis Angel Gonzalez Macchi, President of Paraguay, announcing that he "owns" South America.
HhH
Alea: The Vromans folks AREN'T clueless...
when it comes to books. You can get very competent assistance there, by almost any employee you flag down. These are intelligent and well-read kids. Which is why I find it baffling that almost uniformly the staff doesn't seem to grasp that shaving a percentage off the price of a book affects the store's profits and that the store's profits are what allow it to compete with the chains. This is such elementary economics that it is mind-boggling to me that such a thought seems so foreign to them. It's as if I'm speaking Swahili.
Magdelina: In Pasadena...
there is a well known independent book store called Vromans. They have the readings and book signings and all that, in addition to rows that are wide enough that if you are more than six feet tall you don't have to squat to see what's on the lower shelves. They also have this "Give Back" program where you register your favorite participating charity and they allocate some percentage of the sales price to them. An admirable notion. When they ask me if I'm a member of the "Give Back" club, though, I always answer no, I'm not. Not only am I not, I furthermore don't want to be. When I remark that I prefer to contribute to Vromans' profit margin, I do not get a response that indicates any sort of comprehension at all. These are fairly intelligent young people, but they don't get it. I will on occasion explain that I want Vromans to be able to compete against the chain stores, but even that seems only to evoke blank looks. I'm beginning to worry that the basic concept of capitalism is not very well grasped by these folks. I find that troubling.
24601: Thank you...
Anything else you can think of?
I just have one question...
has anything EVER actually shipped?
DOMA: If there ARE delays...
past history has shown that management will not communicate that fact to shareholders. Shareholders will have to wait and see the absence of revenues for however many quarters it takes to become obvious. This is the result of WAVE management's practice of cheerful-disclosure-only, under which only positive matters need to be disclosed. All negative matters fall under the catch-all disclaimer they put out with each and every PR, to the effect that they are not required to amend news. The disclaimer, however, does not relieve them of the responsibility for disclosure of material events. The extreme docility of the shareholder base allows management the luxury of behaving in this fashion.
24601: As someone who opines on SEC procedure...
and securities law on occasion, would you please inform me as to why there has been no Form 144 filed by Mr. Peter Sprague on his sales of company stock. If the reason is that the company does not consider him an insider due to his stepping down as Chairman of the BOD, do you consider that to be even remotely defensible? Considering his being the founder of the company, personally related to the CEO, and presently the CEO of the only subsidiary company, I don't see how that argument gets even halfway to first base. But, as usual, I could be wrong.
zen: You miss the point entirely...
this company is and has been a development stage company for more than a dozen years. That fact has never prevented management from expressing its utmost confidence in an imminent revenue stream. Go back and look at the record, zen. There have been products since day one, all of which management was just certain were going to sell. Now you and certain others are prepared to sweep under the carpet all the misleading pom pom waving because you feel that this time will be different. The reality is you can't trust what these folks say. Whether they lie or whether they wear rose-colored shades all day every day isn't the issue. After thirteen years of balderdash it's only common sense to say: SHOW ME THE MONEY!
P.S. Twice in CCs, Steven has said unequivocally, "We are shipping product." My conclusion is that either Steven doesn't know what's going on at his own company or he told a lie.
ZEEV: Re the WAVX outings...
those occurred at Yahoo (of course). However, it is illustrative of what the cult of Wave condones. In the last month three individuals have been convincingly threatened with "outing" either via direct e-mail or on Yahoo. Each of the three has posted for years and all own the stock, although two are of the dissident/skeptical variety of long. IHUB administration obviously has no control over what is said privately via email or on Yahoo or RB and I don't expect them to act directly. However, it seems to me the carte blanche treatment that board monitors are given to delete virtually anything they want is at a minimum collusive with the "outers". The board monitor, Snackman, participated in an erroneous "outing" of me on Raging Bull. Ask him. He won't even attempt to deny it. He and the one known as KevinS posted a link to an article by a man named Howard Golden and then alleged that he was me. (He is not.) That in and of itself ought to disqualify this individual from being a board monitor here at IHUB. In any event, I post this here on your thread because if I posted it on WAVX's it would be deleted immediately. WAVX is a cult stock. Some Wavoids are almost reasonable, but the zealots are nut-cases with NO respect for privacy. (Given that this is the stock of a company that would like to be a leading provider of Internet security, it is obvious that they do not grasp the irony of their behavior.) Thank you. I will not interrupt your thread again.
ZEEV: For those who post on WAVX's board...
two posters (both of which happen to be long the stock) have been threatened with "outing" by members of that community. I have myself been the target of such activity in the past, although they got my identity wrong. Below is the text of the threatening message from the Yahoo board. Matt has informed me that he doesn't actually care as long as the threat doesn't appear on IHUB itself. Anyway, the Wavoids include a number of thugs who are tolerated, if not encouraged by the so-called community (that I fondly refer to as a cult). A word to the wise...
From Yahoo...
btk
by: cookiecarmelo 10/06/03 01:21 pm
Msg: 43439 of 43441
I forgot about your handle. If you want to act like a a smarmy smartass child, you will be treated like one. You are free to start the btk board and discuss anything you like. It is quite easy to do on the Internet.
However, if your sole aim is to disrupt conversation with smarmy baloney, your conversation will be snuffed out. You get?
Follow the ihub rules. It's quite simple. You idiots pull this free expression crap out, when your sole intention is getting your jollies posting garbage, simply to get a reaction. You limeys are transparent.
Show some class for a change. I could have 'outed' you long ago, but have not done so. If you didn't post purposely to disrupt, you would not fear being outed. Act like an adult, not a jackass with too much time on his hands.
Larry: Facts on WAVX are irrelevant...
if they contradict the cult's consensus as established by certain individuals (who also act as the board monitors). Those who persist in posting negative information are threatened with "outing". Take it from one who's already been erroneously identified publicly on the RB WAVX board. There are thugs among these folks.
HhH
P.S. Sorry, would have made this a private communication, but don't have that option here.
ALEA: Financing considerations...
there isn't a lot of room to maneuver with the fairly low cash reserves. It makes sense to strike a deal before you absolutely need to, but it would not surprise me if management decides to let it play out for a while and then makes a deal...at a lower price, of course. I'm not saying there's anything imminent. Another round of bonuses will happen first, I imagine. Just conjecture, of course.
doma: I actually agree with you!
That the case for a MSFT buy-out is reasonable. However, if it happens, I predict the MSFT boys will make Winkler look like a choirboy. It should be interesting to watch!