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JoePick, I get where you're coming from. believe me I feel this way too, but no.
THJMW NEEDS TO MAKE THE DEBTORS PAY FOR THEIR ACTIONS.
THJMW NEEDS TO REVIEW THE NUMBERS FROM THE EX, EC, AND SOLOMON. THE NUMBERS MUST SUUPORT AT LEAST $30 BB IN ASSETS, PROBABLY MUCH MORE. THEN SHE NEEDS TO RULE BASED ON THOSE NUMBERS, PERIOD. IF THERE IS A QUESTION OF VALUE, THEN SHE NEEDS TO ACCEPT THE NUMBERS GIVEN BY THE EX. AT THIS POINT SHE SHOULD NOT ALLOW THE DEBTORS/JPMC/FDIC TO MAGICALLY PRODUCE THEM...TOO LATE GUYS, YOU MISSED YOUR OPPORTUNITY. SHE COULD SPELL THIS OUT FOR THE DEBTORS/JPMC/FDIC BEFOREHAND, BUT I'M HOPING SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO BECUASE THERE HAS BEEN SO MUCH OPPORTUNITY FOR THESE PARTIES TO PRODUCE THE REQUESTED DOCS TO DATE (legal eagles?).
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
Final settlement?
Good for all classes through and including wamuq / commons?
william48
Thank you for your insight and the post. Thank you for taking the time over the weekend to go over the document. Very informative.
It seems to me, if I recall correctly, someone posting something about a BK case where the EC attempted to communicate with shareholders through the various court documents, or something to that effect. If I'm not mistaken, a settlement was reached for equity. I don't have time to look for the post right this minute, but it seems applicable here.
My thought is NEVER. Isn't it true that WAMU was told THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO RAISE CAPITAL because their reserves were sufficient?
The FDIC didn't give them any opportunity to 'improve their performance' because I'll bet they didn't want to see WAMU's performance improve...and by all accounts WAMU's performance was above par, even under conditions where the deck was stacked against them, by the FDIC and JPMC, AIMO.
As you well know.
Now I'm really pissed at myself. Must be that it's the end of my week and I'm a little fried. WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT?
That explanation makes a lot of sense. Thanks.
Who knows what this means? Please sound off for clarity.
Are they selling their stock? If so, then why?
What do you mean by 'both'? To be determined and which other? Us, FDIC or JPM?
If the final settlement date was extended, then who owns the rights to the asset derived profits from the last two years?
FDIC, us, JPM, or to be determined?
BIG!! Don't hold back when you post at the poll!! LOL!!!!
LOL!!!
Right on, thelimeyone..
Please JH, dig. Use those smarts you've been given to dig deep into this, and then present an honest assessment of the situation. Dig true, and with the ruling of THJMW change the status quo, for the better.
Now that's a FIRST!!! FIRST decent spin on the crap that has happened. Love the bit on wamu loans performing better than expected.
Thanks dix. Excellent information. North of $52B seems about right. So $52B + 1.88B (not yet received) is $54B +. That would leave approx. $18.24 / share common stock, hypothetically.
Might THJMW award damages? And, I'm wondering whether JPM, with or without the FDIC would be willing to pony up in this ballpark ($18-36 / share commons).
It's getting more interesting each day.
Brings to mind another question. Just how high can the FDIC go in adjusting the price? Oh, well we didn't know (fdic) there were $30-150B in assets @ fair market value, therefore since we've recently discovered this to be the case, the sale price is now...$XB.
Makes me then wonder even though jpm coveted wamu is there a price point at which they will lose interest?
SlyOne and dmceng, thank you for your posts.
I admit I didn't know the $8B in A were NEVER disclosed. You've got to be blankin' kidding me (understatement). I'm amazed it took so long for an examiner to be appointed let alone an EC.
The debtors claim A = L, and L = roughly 8B. So A, in their view are roughly 8B. Now does anyone remember what the assets they already account for consist of / are?
On top of these assets, they already count, there is yet to be ruled on 4B in NOLs (or is it 7B?), and what else? There are 'the subs' which are in the process of being valued I understand. The 2200 branches, the air fleet, the trusts. What are the most valuable assets we have the best case to prove?
Can anyone offer their best recollection?
Great, succinct, simple, effective, POST.
So our judge infact does mean business. Big right turn yesterday. FDIC and JPM still playing poker while waiting to see what the examiner digs up.
We now know the examiner. We know he will have full subpoena power. THJMW has signed off.
Let's see him get after it. Bring a s#@t storm to 'em JH! Don't hold anything back. MAKE IT RIGHT!!!
I'm leaning heavily toward THJMW and the UST being in full court press right now. I really am. It appears the tide has turned. I'm just saying, not predicting at all, just saying, man I wouldn't be surprised.
To me, why approve the examiner unless you intend to let him do his work properly. No holding him back. THE WORK WAS NEVER PROPERLY DONE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! I just want to SEE the results we are looking forward to at each juncture.
By the way, interesting post by fsshn.
It's looking more like political spin on this whole mess is coming, IMO. November is fast approaching. Wonder who wants to be the 'hero' here? Wallstreet shennanigans thwarted, scapegoat for the financial crisis blamed, subsequent market rally...all before the elections...
You just might be right, REAL. It seems like with every hearing there is great anticipation. Yet, in the end a spin off result occurs that is at least slightly different that expected. I would be surprised.
On the other hand, if it is signed, then maybe we can have more confidence, a bit more anyway, that THJMW and the UST mean business. That they really do intend to force proper valuation of assets here.
Maybe THJMW and the UST want to go the distance at this point in time. Maybe they believe evidence indicates the work was never accurately done.
The entire proceeding was a sham for well over two years. Maybe everyone has awakened and they mean to full court press now.
We'll know more soon enough. It wouldn't surprise me to see another left hand turn though.
I like that strategy. Enough is enough.
That's good advice. Thanks, and I'll take it!
In jest, i will add:
Lighten up Francis! :)
It was interesting to me that the post citing the 22% figure in FDIC seizures equated to approximately $24 / share. That's all.
I know just as well as the next fortune teller if / what settlement will ocur. I have no clue. Agreed. I do hope though.
Wonder what Sussman already holds on Dimon? Betcha somethin'.
Love for Sussman to forward it to the examiner, the examiner subpoenas Dimon, questions Dimon under oath, and the examiner knows the right answer. Dimon lies. Then we see the rest of the story unfold.
All speculation of course and IMO only, but doesn't seem impossible at all.
I don't think they can use taxpayer money legally, can they? The FDIC is privately owned, isn't it? What's confusing is the FDIC has a 'charter', one I believe they've been operating outside of, correct?
This fiasco will stink even more to high heaven if it's taxpayer dollars that pay other taxpayers off. I still can't believe how many taxpayer dollars were 'approved' for the 'economic recovery'?
And do you know what's interesting?
64BB - 8BB (liabilities) - 15BB (P + K shares max value) = ...
YOU GUESSED IT...$24 / SHARE FOR COMMONS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Morning. I'll stay away from banks after this fiasco.
And I'll buy you your drink of choice!
Ooooh the dream of that. Could you imagine? I'd take a month off just to savor it. A We could afford it. The good ole USA would be much improved.
That was then, this is now? Maybe THJMW is the sleeping giant that Sussmsn and the UST awakened.
Thanks for the shot of well needed sanity. You may have said it a few times before...let's get busy valuing those assets yesterday then. Tally them up accurately and shove them up their arses. Then rule for equity.
What should be done instead to improve our position IYO?
Then here's hoping the subpoena order is signed. That key FDIC higher-ups are questioned under oath. And as a kicker the examiner has solid evidence of the correct answers to certain pointed questions, compliments of Sussmsn, and the vice is tightened to the breaking point. IMO.
Who has the power to force the FDIC's hand here?
I just want to know what the court CAN do about the FDIC's stance. What can be done to force the court's will here? If it turns out the FDIC can simply refuse, withouy any significant ramifications, then it seems we are powerless. I can't accept that this is the case.
Again, I trust Sussman. He would know this. He wouldn't be wasting his time. Bet he has more up his sleeve?
I believe it. What's next? Hope in the end they pay for it.
Thank you for the source. I'll get on it.