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Matt - Can you give me a chart on EVRN? It looks ready to go
The examiner's job was to determine if Wamu was solvent at the time of seizure since the bank was an asset of the holding company WMI. Wamu was indeed "Solvent" as far as assets/liabilities and tier 1 rating go so this right here is a wrong statement. The problem Wamu had was liquidity and this was stated in the examiner's report. Had Wamu been given the same loans JPM, C, BOA, WF were given from the FED, they wouldn't have had liquidity crisis either.
That is one of the reasons bank holding companies are set up so as to insulate the parent corp from the bank. They could technically still be able to survive by filing BK under chapter 11. They may be able to operate, yes... If their assets are not taken unwillingly. You look at any corporation out there and if their holding company assets are taken, they bk right? The trust preferred securities Wamu is responsible for? The assets to those are sitting with JPM right now. How is it possible for JPM to receive assets without accepting the direct liabilities from those assets?
The unfortunate thing is that the remaining assets get dispersed in a totem pole fashion with common shareholders getting wiped out since they are at the bottom. This is entirely understandable, although unfair, understandable. At the same time, when assets are taken which should not have been this makes a big difference on what the company still holds at the end for shareholders
I have had this happen to me personally when I worked for a savings bank back in the late 1980s early 1990s during the S&L failures. I was sitting on a boatload of options and even though I knew the lenders had given the bank away I couldn't exercise and SHORT the company as an insider. I got over it and changed careers when the FDIC seized the bank. Now, at the same time with the FDIC giving JPM and everyone else INFORMATION that Wamu was failing, do you believe it would be "ok" for them to short Wamu? Do you really think JPM, C, GS didn't short this? LOL, got the money got the power to be above the law huh?
Banks are failing on a daily basis.
investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=55874854
It's all a result of stupidity by lenders and Congress. The latter not realizing what they unleashed when they repealed Glass Steagall. I do agree with you here, at least on something...
BTW as far as you other post on the run on the bank, when a bank needs deposits they boost their interest rate on Jumbo CDS which extend beyond the FDIC limits of insurance. It is known as hot money. The caveat to the item below is they'll yank the deposit in a heartbeat if there is any clue the bank will fail.
Funds that are controlled by investors who seek high short-term yields when the funds are likely to be reinvested somewhere else at any time. Some financial institutions attract hot money by offering above-average yields on certificates of deposit. However, if the rate is lowered, the funds are likely to be lost to another institution or investment. This is the answer that was never made, was it this type of money or was it money JPM & their cronies deposited, waited until it was loaned, then pulled theirs creating the "run"
Finally with regard to the short selling of WMI. It is not the SEC's job to protect an investor who has an interest in a failing company. If other banking institutions (some much smaller than Wamu) were considered systematically important to not be able to be shorted, why was Wamu not put on the no short list when asked by killinger
They were shorting WMI it had nothing to do with the bank. They were shorting the holding company. As I previously posted above I would have done the same thing with regard to the holding company I worked for. Well, at the same time with the "competition" shorting the stock... Doesn't this go against them also being able to buy the scraps? You are right, they shorted the holding company which in turn gave a dishonest outlook of the holding companies finances, thereby assisting in the so called bank runs
The issue of shorting only dealt with the forebearance agreements regarding bond holders. The stock price drops the interest rate goes up on the bonds. It had nothing to do with the bank failure. The FDIC would have been ill-advised to suggest to the SEC that WMI get added to the no short list. The FDIC didn't advise for any of the banks to be on the no short list, that was the Treasury & FED behind it. As far as shorting only affecting forebearance agreements, it also affects confidence in not only the holding company, but also the the bank. I'm sure this confidence buster of seeing Wamu dropping from tens of dollars per share to the over 40% short pps of $2. This DOES affect confidence in someone that just watched IndyMac fail and lehmans fail soon after!
It doesn't matter, you have your opinion of "Well, the FDIC followed the law as Wamu may have ended up failing"... Yes, but at the same time the FDIC was undermining Wamu finding it's own buyer themselves, why? John Reich even told the FDIC that it was NOT their job to merge banks. Why? It would have been NO COST to the FDIC if Wamu would have found their own buyer, so why do it? Why didn't the examiner find this out? C'mon now, the FDIC should not have been out telling people interested in the bank that wamu is getting ready to be siezed. This in itself tells me there was the pre-meditated plan to kill Wamu and feed the scraps to JPM. Why the secret meetings with BAIR/PAULSON? Why the meeting soon after BAIR/Paulson had with Bonderman? To let Bonderman know he'd be taken care of with another bank failure, this one he could control (Corus)? This is a pathetic way to steal from a lot of people and I hope those responsible will burn in hell. Don't worry, I won't be visiting your board anymore as this is my last post here. I've lost all my faith not only in the legal/judicial system here, but the POS Country as a whole since greedy power hungry idiots are running it all! Where are the checks and balances of the FDIC/FED? It's went from a Country of freedom & justic to a Country ran strictly by those with the money
I respect your position, yet at the same time there is ongoing litigation between JPM/Wamu regarding what's been posted
If this were to adversely affect JPM's stock then there would be a lot of ticked off shareholders there (kinda like those from Wamu who were robbed) but at least JPM has the assets to back up the losses
Just needs more volume and we'll be back in pennies
And IN FACT it was supposed to be the examiner job to see if there are any grounds for lawsuits and a possible recovery.
The examiner only did the job of finding out if Wamu could have been seized at the time. If he also looked into any of the other banks, he might have felt there was a reason to seize them as well so you can send that one out the door.
The examiner's job should have been "Is there any evidence for lawsuits which would help Wamu shareholders get some of their investment back". This was not a time of the world why one bank should have been sacrificed for many, nor should it have been able to have it's stock manipulated. For God's sake why wasn't Wamu able to be put on the no short list of financial firms which could have a massive effect on the economy? Because they didn't owe JPM/GS money like AIG? Wamu was the 6th largest banking institution in the United States, and they felt this would have no impact on the economy if Wamu failed? Why, because JPM was right there to take it and only the shareholders would lose? This needs to be brought to light
You do realize if every bank was getting bank runs during this time (which supposedly Wamu being 6th largest in Country only lost less than 5% of total deposits lost by all institutions of over $500 BILLION in banking withdrawals during this time). The point is the FDIC did not take into account what the whole market was doing, only used the fine line process to steal Wamu for JPM. The $16 billion, this should have been investigated to see if this was large transfers and by who or was it really small time mom & pops. If this really was a few large transfers making up the majority of this it would be easy for groups of people with enough money to steal a bank, especially when there is an overall situation like Lehman and the whole economy is getting ran.
And speaking of stock prices being manipulated, this is in direct relation to the Bank's Tier 1 Capital ratio. If someone shorts the stock to nothing which is the case of Wamu, not only does their Capital ratio change but also brings on public fears that the bank is unstable, thereby causing deposit runs from people that wouldn't have taken it out. Anyone with enough money could steal a bank fairly easily, especially with the economic problems at the time. This is what the examiner should have looked in to, not just the "Did the FDIC follow procedures BS that he did". There needs to be answers on who shorted Wamu, who took their deposits out, how much did the rest of the financial institutions lose in deposits during this time, and was it a necessity to close Wamu while Wamu was still solvent. Wamu themselves could have done a number of things to change their cash position, including selling buildings, branches, land, mineral rights, wind farms, loans, companies, etc. Wamu was not LOST at this time and should have been "saved" with TARP just as JPM, CITI, WF, BOA were.
Nice volume and gain first thing in morning, what's up?
The examiner himself stated he didn't know what assets were gained by JPM didn't he?
His job was to see if with the current information he had available if it were worthwhile to pursue. He didn't check with the SEC to see who shorted Wamu to nothing, he didn't check to see why Wamu wasn't allowed on the no short list, he didn't check into who was shorting Wamu like crazy. He didn't check out FDIC's deal with TPG to see if that was a "GIFT". He didn't check to see what assets were transferred, he didn't check to see who took out $16 billion after Lehman's failure, he didn't check if that was the same percentage every other bank was losing at the time, he even stated that there was information JPM was putting out bad wording about Wamu months before Wamu's failure(see John Reich's comments about him telling Jamie Dimon to stop)
You can also state that JPM set aside $74 billion for failed home loans. JPM also has the assets backing that $74 billion in home loans so even if they lost 25% (which they probably won't as they are really pushing to get the foreclosures over with and then they will again give just anyone a loan to rise the prices back up).
I have myself realized this "examiner's" scope was severely limited and his hands were tied and apparently there is no fighting it, but still doesn't make what happened to me and thousands of other shareholders right. For God's sake he couldn't even talk with anyone important at the FDIC as they stuck just a couple people with a little information about Wamu to talk to him.
You do realize JPM was supposed to pay fair value though don't you? Do you really believe fair value was acquired?
I don't believe I will gain anything back of my investment, too much govt tied up in this. I do think what was done to Wamu was wrong though
Eh, it's been bouncing back and forth in this area for days... I just doubled up as don't know if there are too many shares left!
Hopefully the co doesn't shaft me. Been in this thing from .036 and down and finally doubled what I have.
860k more shares for me so hopefully it gets above .0089 which is now my average and get my cash back
Actually the company has not yet sold on Amazon but plan to according to what I got from Robert
Stock is on FIRE, yet moves on water!
Good, good... glad they are finally able to produce the veggie dip. I'd like to have seen it ready to go before they went on TV last year!
Anyway, think the bottom is in & have a nice buy order at .001 to average myself down a little. Anyone have shares to sell?
Oh, don't forget that he got the shell from his buddy who had some nice hidden debt to his wife in it... That right there was 800 million share dilution, just by him taking the shell!
It was a PUMP & DUMP... How else could you see it?
Tom doesn't dilute for 2-3 days and let the pumpers run it up, then he dumps on everyone!
Hope you sold at .037 - seems like the dilution machine is kicking in now!
You don't think ole Tommy Boy has done this in the past? Not dilute for 2-3 days and let the pps get up, then hundreds of shareholders averaging down? Thousands of us lost money on this POS
HARBOR BREWING COMPANY INCORPORATED $ 0.02
HBWO 0.00
Daily Short Sale Volume - NEW view
Short Interest (Shares Short) 6,200
Days To Cover (Short Interest Ratio) 0.0
Short Percent of Float view
Naked Short Selling List - NEW view
Short Interest - Prior 9,800
Short % Increase / Decrease -36.73
Short Squeeze Ranking™ view
% From 52-Wk High ($ 0.05 ) -56.00 %
% From 52-Wk Low ($ 0.01 ) 340.00 %
% From 200-Day MA ($ 0.02 ) 10.00 %
% From 50-Day MA ($ 0.02 ) 10.00 %
Price % Change (52-Week) -26.70 %
Shares Float view
Total Shares Outstanding 38,982,492
% Owned by Insiders
% Owned by Institutions
Market Cap. $ 857,615
Trading Volume - Today 0
Trading Volume - Average 686,700
Trading Volume - Today vs. Average 0.00 %
Earnings Per Share
PE Ratio
Record Date 2010-OctB
Let's hope the company has their ducks in a row now... Anyone had a chance to do a taste test?
LOL... I feel like I have enough of a loss here to take over operations! Granted I only have 860k shares, but those shares came at a much higher pps than it sits now!
I do everything electronic through Schwab and was able to vote online for the low price of a $39.99 fee!
So, WamKQ $39.99, WamuQ $39.99, WamPQ $39.99 - What's waisting a few more bucks huh?
maybe bbb could add you to his list of bagholders... It definitely seems like there will be quite a few more before too long!
Thought you said you finally got in at .0071 ?? I don't believe .0071 to .009 is 70%
I guess this stock is showing up on one of the pump & dump boards?
I email
roppenheimer@corebusinessone.com
&
Paul@naturespeak.com
Paul is the CEO here but Robert is the business guy
I've always emailed, hence their way of getting out of getting me the correct info back!
I don't believe it's a total scam either, just management not on top of things and apparently do not need shareholders to feel good about their investment.
There is no excuse for them not filing their financials though.. What is the holdup?
860k shares started purchasing at around .03 so quite in the hole here!
I've gotten 2-3 replies, but it's always skirting what the OS is and that the "transfer agent" shouldn't be gagged (well, they will NOT give out the information on this stock but the company says they never gagged 'em).
Anyway, no one can give me the OS here. I haven't seen "massive" amounts of dilution, although have seen some which is to be expected by a growing company. I'd just like to know where it stands!
Short sellers... They know most only trading it and as they continue to force it down traders bail like they are doing with AVNR right now!
Not to mention the SEC too busy watching porn to enforce short covering
You have enough money you play by a completely different set of rules, the ones you create
That was also before an examiner stood up and said "that seems reasonable".
For the examiner to not be able to talk with Bair who was at the very center of involvement... BS - The FDIC didn't give jack for information & got away with it. I'd bet the only 2 people at the FDIC they probably let the examiner talk with were janitors that might have overheard something about Wamu, but had no real information other than the bank failed because that's what the news on TV said!!
For the examiner to put in his report that Reich got a hold of JPM due to talking dirt about Wamu in March/April (and probably later) yet never followed up on that information as Jamie said "We didn't do it"
For the examiner to not at least try to find out what assets &/or values were transferred to JPM and/or value of whatever is left in Wamu - BS
For the examiner to not find out where the deposit outflows went (or for that matter were these outflows any larger than any other bank) BS
For the examiner to not look for the short shares killing equity all the way from July, therefore making Wamu look like they were going under - BS
For the examiner to say "You can't fight against the FDIC" - BS
For the examiner to look at why Wamu wasn't placed on the "No Short" list - did he even talk to Paulson? - BS
For the examiner to find out why the FRB wouldn't give the same 84 day loans for liquidity to Wamu like it did for the other banks - BS
The examiner has been here for a show... The examiner didn't try to what he should have, only did his job which was to appease the masses and state that nothing is wrong here, move on.
I wanted to sell & rebuy, but the 3 day rule kills... The 3 day rule is only for those with money to not lose it and take from all us suckers that have to wait!
Susman has had Nelson taking care of the case has he not? Has Susman been around or is he letting a "newbie" take the biggest case he's ever seen? Why?
Susman will do nothing. There is nothing like fighting an uphill & one-sided battle. This is like the Indians using bows and arrows against Union Guns! You can't win. JPMC bought everyone they could not beat and/or the GOVT was involved (Treasury/Fed Reserve/FDIC)
See page 81, Freilinger states that Wamu should have been siezed as it was sooo horrible (assistant treasurer of Wamu)... Where is he now? A Vice President at JPMC. Where is everyone else that mattered? JPMC. Why? Who would give up a VP position at a corp the size of JPMC along with the bonuses they receive to be honest? Rotella was the Cheif risk officer for Wamu and JPMC kept him AFTER he killed Wamu... they even promoted him as he's now Chase Manhattan Mortgage Corp President... Everyone that could give info is now high up in JPMC... What else is there to do? You think they will bite the hand that feeds them? We will find out 40 years from now when none of this matters, someone will come out and want to clear their conscience before they DIE... Other than that, this is pretty much over. The govt/big guys stole a few more bucks from the working families, what's new? How is this any different than what they've done for the past 100 years?
And for all of you that had that US 911 patriotic spirit in thinking the Twin Towers were really hit by hijacked planes with a bunch of Muslims.. Look again as it was your govt behind it. A small loss of life compared to the changes we made in Iraq! Booyah, GO US
Hochberg will probably be working for JPMC soon as their cheif legal officer.. Watch and see!
Not so sure about that... You can get to the top, but who is above them to go to?
We're already in belief that the Treasury, FDIC, SEC are all in cahoots... Who exactly is there to go above them and say "Make this right"?
The GOVT is crooked, those at the top of our GOVT are crooked... where to turn now?
How about everyone saying a big FU to JPM and not paying their Wamu credit cards/loans? I really wish I wouldn't have paid mine off because even though I got another card and transferred my balances off JPM, I'd love to have gotten my pre-siezure money back by not paying! Let them see their Wamu loans really fail!
Makes you wonder how much Paulson had short doesn't it?
Did this guy even look at the shorts that caused the scare?
Did he even look into JPM making statements which caused the problems with Wamu's downgrades? (he definately makes a mention that the OTS brought it to his attention that JPM was putting out the dirt on WAMU, but nothing further)
Did he ask why Wamu wasn't able to borrow from the FED window with it's double 84 day loan window like everyone else?
Did he ask why Wamu wasn't allowed to follow one of their 4 scenarios to help with liquidation issues?
Did he check on who took the $16 billion in deposits out of Wamu starting Sept 16th?
Did he consider checking every other bank to see what % of funds were withdrawn starting Sept 16th as my parents banked with JPM & immediatey withdrew their money so regardless of what bank it was I'm sure all banks had a "run" on their cash
How about Venezuala... They actually take business owned by OTHER COUNTRIES for public good rather than just steal from their own people
GO CHAVEZ
He's basically saying there is no need for "list of assets" because of the fact that JPM was the ONLY bidder of the bank without some form of govt guarantees that it doesn't matter what JPM paid, not that it was at a fair market value!
I like how he states you can't fight the FDIC
And that Reich from the OTS stated that JPM was giving out bad information about Wamu all the way back in March/April
Yet none of this matters?
And yet he uses "Stock Market Value" as a case of solvency on page 69 even though there was over 50% shares short at time of siezure and yet the SEC did nothing about this?
Anyone else ready to move to North Korea with me? At least there you know what is going to happen with everything you own!
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News for 'WAMUQ' - (*DJ Bankruptcy Investigator Files Report On Collapse Of WaMu)
(MORE TO FOLLOW) Dow Jones Newswires
November 01, 2010 16:29 ET (20:29 GMT)
Copyright (c) 2010 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.- - 04 29 PM EDT 11-01-10
It's there... anyone have link to it?
Around 1/2 the float has already traded today, this is looking very good!
We should find out next week, shouldn't we?