Linda is biotch...! LOLz JayKay
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Well, actually, Willingham has 1 million commons and I agree, he will have a multi-million dollar salary while on the board/committee post bk. He is set no matter what happens.
imo
I concur. I am anticipating TPS's objection to be forth coming as well. We may even see an objection from Epoaks )or what ever that hedge fund's name was that was on the EC).
Willingham's sham of a settlement is basically a three way split between TPS / P&K / commons. Not only that, Willingham and Co (2 more) EC memebers will be getting a "job" on the trustee/board/committee post bankruptcy emergence.
imo
Actually, WAMPQs end up doing better than the commons, based on the current ratio of company ownership.
The trustee for the PIERS blew this mediation. The debtors have done another pathetic job of disclosing the true value and risks associated with a DIME win. The estimation tables puts it at 9%, and the market is trading it at a slight discount.
Correction: After reding it further, P/K are classed in Class 19, unlike the other DS/POR where they will Class 20, a seperate class from REITS.
imo
Oh, I didn't know you were serious! Ha ha. Well, there lies a problem, there was no provision for Class 20, the Class we are in, however, we are suppose to be ranked at the same level with Class 19, with the exception of the $50 million to REITS.
So, if we use that as an indication of what we P/K are going to get, then we would receive a prorated share of the 70% plus "other stuff"... (I have not read the entire thing yet)
... BUT, I would like to see it in print before I relay on the Class 19 verbiage and apply it to Class 20 distribution.
oh... and the anwser to your question about the PPS, it should GAP up!
imo
I didn't read the whole thing, but skimmed it. They basically get a share of the 30% of the commons and other stuff... they are equal to commons, however, I don't know if the Judge will still rule on their trial, may be may be not. I don't know since there is a DS out or if there is a provision in the DS stating if Dimeq were Class 12, 18, or 21 re: Judge ruling etc.
I didn't really follow Dimeq.
imo
Oh, I didn't know you were serious! Ha ha. Well, there lies a problem, there was no provision for Class 20, the Class we are in, however, we are suppose to be ranked at the same level with Class 19, with the exception of the $50 million to REITS.
So, if we use that as an indication of what we P/K are going to get, then we would receive a prorated share of the 70% plus "other stuff"... (I have not read the entire thing yet)
... BUT, I would like to see it in print before I relay on the Class 19 verbiage and apply it to Class 20 distribution.
oh... and the anwser to your question about the PPS, it should GAP up!
imo
Well, judging by your posts today, I figured you sold, and that is why there was a settlement (after you sold). Well, anyhow, congrats to all! LOL
Jerele, tell us the truth. Did you sell some shares today? eom
Help me out guys, I am looking for "2X value" somewhere in this Pacer doc and I just can't find it. Guru... can you help me out with that?
the more i think ,i feel this is all just bull crap...i see no approval from susman nowhere on these docs,also just cause they say willingham wants a quick approval means nothing ,i don't believe it ...
Seventh Amended Joint Plan of Affiliated Debtors Pursuant to Chapter 11 of the United States Bankruptcy Code
http://www.kccllc.net/documents/0812229/0812229111212000000000003.pdf
30.2 Impaired Classes Entitled to Vote on Plan: The Claims and Equity
Interests in Classes 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 12A, 13 through 16, 17A, and 18 through 22 are
impaired and receiving distributions pursuant to the Plan, and are therefore entitled to vote to
accept or reject the Plan; provided, however, that, in accordance with the Original Disclosure
Statement Order, entitlement to vote in Class 19 does not include the right to elect to receive any
portion of the payment provided for by JPMC in Section 23.1 of the Plan.
ARTICLE XXIII
PROVISION FOR TREATMENT OF PREFERRED EQUITY INTEREST (CLASS 19)
23.1 Treatment of Preferred Equity Interests: Commencing on the
Effective Date, and subject to the execution and delivery of a release in accordance with the
provisions of Section 41.6 of the Plan, each holder of a Preferred Equity Interest, including,
without limitation, each holder of a REIT Series, shall be entitled to receive such holder’s Pro
Rata Share of seventy percent (70%) of (a) subject to the right of election provided in Sections
6.2(b), 7.2(b), 16.1(b)(ii), 18.2(b), 19.2(b) and 20.2(b) of the Plan, the Reorganized Common
Stock, and (b) in the event that all Allowed Claims and Postpetition Interest Claims in respect of
Allowed Claims are paid in full (including with respect to Allowed Subordinated Claims), any
Liquidating Trust Interests to be redistributed; provided, however, that, in the event that, at the
Confirmation Hearing and in the Confirmation Order, the Bankruptcy Court determines that a
different percentage should apply, the foregoing percentage shall be adjusted in accordance with
the determination of the Bankruptcy Court and be binding upon each holder of a Preferred
Equity Interest. In addition, and separate and distinct from the distribution to be provided to
holders of the Preferred Equity Interests from the Debtors, pursuant to the Global Settlement
Agreement, and in exchange for the releases set forth in the Global Settlement Agreement and in
Article XLI herein, on the Effective Date, JPMC shall pay, or transfer to the Disbursing Agent,
for payment to each Releasing REIT Trust Holder its pro rata share of Fifty Million Dollars
($50,000,000.00), determined by multiplying (a) Fifty Million Dollars ($50,000,000.00) times
(b) an amount equal to (i) the principal amount of REIT Series held by such Releasing REIT
Trust Holder on the voting record date with respect to the Sixth Amended Plan divided by (ii) the outstanding principal amount of all REIT Series (which is Four Billion Dollars
($4,000,000,000.00)); provided, however, that the release of claims against the “Releasees”
delivered in connection with the solicitation of acceptances and rejections to the Sixth Amended
Plan shall be deemed binding and effective for each Releasing REIT Trust Holder; and,
provided, further, that, at the election of JPMC, the amount payable to Releasing REIT Trust
Holders pursuant to this Section 23.1 and Section 2.24 of the Global Settlement Agreement may
be paid in shares of common stock of JPMC, having an aggregate value equal to the amount of
cash to be paid pursuant to this Section 23.1 and Section 2.24 of the Global Settlement
Agreement, valued at the average trading price during the thirty (30) day period immediately
preceding the Effective Date. While JPMC’s maximum liability pursuant to this Section 23.1
and Section 2.24 of the Global Settlement Agreement is Fifty Million Dollars ($50,000,000.00),
JPMC’s liability shall be reduced to the extent the Releasing REIT Trust Holders comprise less
than all of the outstanding REIT Series holders.
23.2 Cancellation of REIT Series: Notwithstanding the provisions of Section
23.1 hereof, on the Effective Date, all REIT Series shall be deemed extinguished and the
certificates and all other documents representing such Equity Interests shall be deemed cancelled
and of no force and effect. For the avoidance of doubt, this Section 23.2 shall have no effect on,
and shall not result in the extinguishment or cancellation of, the Trust Preferred Securities and, in
accordance with the Global Settlement Agreement, JPMC or its designee is the sole legal,
equitable and beneficial owner of the Trust Preferred Securities for all purposes.
23.3 Cancellation of Preferred Equity Interests: Notwithstanding the
provisions of Section 23.1 hereof, on the Effective Date, all non-REIT Series Preferred Equity
Interests shall be deemed extinguished and the certificates and all other documents representing
such Equity Interests shall be deemed cancelled and of no force and effect.
4.20 Class 20 Intentionally Left Blank
Nothing needs to happen with DIMEQ before this case proceeds to the next round of Disclosure Statement hearings. We already had 2 rounds of such when we were much farther away from a decision in our adversary trial. We have a disputed claims reserve established in case we win and this allows the main case and the adversary case to move independent of one another.
The Judge's decision on Dime certainly impacts many classes within the waterfall but her decision does not need to be rendered before we see another DS or have another hearing. In fact this case could be confirmed before she renders a decision and were it not for the IT issue it likely would have been confirmed before our trial even began. The new DS will have to outline the treatment of the Dime based on the various potential scenarios just as the previous ones did.
You are obviously dreaming. Maybe you're a bopfan follower. I, on the other hand, have served on an EC, so I kinda know how they work. The ONLY way the IT claims could be dealt with in a trial holding up confirmation, is by pure incompetence from the debtors and the judge. I doubt Rosie is sympathetic to your cause. If he is so dumb that him and his crew at Weil can't put a confirmable plan together notwithstanding the IT claims, then you may be right. If that happens, dozens of motions to convert to a chapter 7 will be filed. Then, if granted, your precious EC colorable claims and standing will be relegated to the duties of a trustee, and the EC will no longer exist. Bye bye
... because, if you take into account, EC's colorable claims, and through litigation, any money coming from SNHs, will go back into the waterfall and pay off Class 18. Without disallowance, the waterfall does not flow to Class 18.
Now is through litigation. If there is a settlement, then scenario is different.
imo
You are obviously not following the wamu case. It is not a dual track case. The coloarable claims will be dealt with BEFORE any confirmation hearing. What does that mean? That means the estate is funding the entire discovery period until there is a ruling on IT claims, UNLESS there is a settlement.
As for your:
Translation = ... it will be added directly to the waterfall. That means, commons are still toast. Preferreds may benefit, but I doubt by much. If DIME were to land in 18, they'd still get to reap any disallowance ahead equity.
Class 18, agree and disagree. In a cram down, the waterfall will stops at preferreds and Dimeq gets paid. In a settlement, the water fall did not reach Class 18, it stopped at Class 16 PIERS aka HUQ. Therefore, there is no money for Class 18. If Dimeq is classed at 18, then they are toast (settlement wise, UNLESS they were included in the settlement, even though Walrath said they need not be in the mediation settlement, however, that was before the ROsen Class 18 footnote in the pleadings). Rosen put in the clause about subordination of Dimes to Class 18 for a reason. We all know, Rosen does not just throw virbiage for no reason.
Really? Are you serious? Okay, it's like this. The current thinking from the EC and the Debtors prior plans is that DIME has no claim.
If they land in 12, boom, everything from wahuq down just got a 330 million bich slap.
If they land in 18, boom, preferreds and commons get the slap.
And finally if they land in 21, the commons are diluted into oblivion.
That should read 'a huge impact on wamuq'. The best that could come from mediation for equity is some extortion from the SNH's. If Dime gets the shaft, they will take whatever equity 'thinks' they will get in a settlement.
The thing with mediation is.....that the debtors can come back to the court and say "judge, we've had arm's length negotiations...the EC had it's chance, now we're gonna cram them down".
Look up the case law folks.
Maybe, just maybe, the debtors will issue some worthless warrants to get releases.
Yes, very important to know whether Class 12, 18, or 21 (or was it 22) in a settlement or straight forward waterfall. Huge impact on Dimeq. imo/eom
DS (Jan) and Confirmation (Feb) hearing. imo/eom
Unoffical Transcript of 12/8/2012 hearing
(Br): Ah we have a status conference on the agenda today everything else has been handled . Ah I would like to report that ah although Judge Lyons did not send a letter or report to you he Asked me to represent to you that the mediation is on going , that all of the parties are working very hard and they stay you have implemented by way of the order should remain in affect….ah (jmw): for how long (br): well your honor we do have another Omnibus Hearing set for the 22nd which is two weeks for today so it would be are hope to extend that and Judge Lyons Mediation at least through that period of time. As I indicated your honor the parties have been working very, very hard meeting non stop to try and reach an agreement ah and at this point while we cannot say we have an agreement we can say we are still working towards that. With that in place your honor it is are hope that we could reach some sort of agreement that would lead us or allow us to get to a confirmation hearing in the middle of February and an effective date at the end of February and the reason for that your honor obviously as we have talked about many times the ongoing burn rate associated with the chapter 11 cases and the occurrence or accrual of post petition interest and therefore the reduction of returns with respect to some of the lower classes. Your honor if I could ask for a special indulgence which is to try and meet that time frame. Ah what we were looking for is if we are successful in reaching an agreement , and again no promises that we are, but if we are and we are able to file something by this coming Monday , which is a goal of the debtors, to try and have a discloser statement hearing the week of January 9th ……..what that does your honor presumably your honor you have …….19 days ah for the balance of December 11 more in January ,but we would ask therefore to have discloser statement objections ah received by January 4th . It’s a slight shortening your honor of what would be a twen….ah 28 day period. And so if we were to do it on say January 11th and a week before to understand any objections that might be interposed. Again your honor the goal here to move forward obviously it would be a tentative holding date…..and ah if we did not meet our time frame we would come back and ask you for an alternative time period. (JMW): well I can give you a hold date daah.. certainly ummm……………January the 11th you are looking for……..how about 2 o’clock (br): That would be fine your honor…………….with the goal we would have objections before that, so we would be able to put something together and get it to you a clean copy with any charts …ahh by Monday the 9th by 5:00pm so you would have at least two days to consider it. (JMW)……..ahh ok . (Br) That’s so.. (Jmw) But we have no idea when you’ll be filing ah(br): Well you honor it’s like I said we think no later than Monday …aannd if in fact we cannot meet that time frame ahhh we would release the hold date your honor and come back and talk with you, if we could arrange a status conference and let you know where things are………(JMW) Alright that fine. (br) Thank you your honor.
(jmw) You may (?starke) (unintelligible)starke on behalf of Brown Ruddick and the ad hoc TPS consortium I really did come here not intending to say anything just intending to learn umm but I sort of can’t help myself after the request for a hold date. Ah ah um Mr. Rosen talked about all of the parties being involved in a process uhh I don’t know which parties he is referring to litigating… urrr …or litigaaa…in his mind’s eye iterating them down. Ahh I don’t know if his list of parties is ,,is .. is inclusive as our list of parties ,but we will leave that issue aside. Ahhh I have no idea what deal will be in a plan someday perhaps . Ahh I have no idea what our objections will be to that deal I don’t know about today. Ah I presume umm, knowing this case, being in it as long as I have, we will have objections to whatever I don’t know about today. Ummm and so the idea of advance ramming into a status conference , that we should have a discloser statement hearing on advance notice with advance ah .. obligations for people to file discloser statement objections seems a little bit procedurally premature… a hold date is just that a hold date, but I just did not want my failure to arrive and to say something about that the..Can’t come back to haunt me at another hearing. (JMW) ahh yeah I think we have to wait and see what the changes are that ahhh ah…. will be in the black line I guess, but ahh I will reserve everybody’s right..(?B) Thank you your Honor. (JMW) alright. (br): you honor just to pick up one point ah to the debtor and the debtors meeting with the parties as requested by Judge Lyons to the extent that judge Lyons excused certain parties from the mediation that’s nothing we can be involved with your honor, but we are working very hard with all of the parties Judge Lyons is having at the mediation. (JMW) Alright well I… (br): And your Honor I would say uhhh Congratulations cause Judge Lyons has been doing a very nice job and he has been available to al of us a moments notice.l(emphasis) (jmw) Well aaahh I am very happy he is doing it (laughter in court) hopefully it will reee… uh mean that I have less work uh(br) :(in background) We hope so. (Jmw) I will extend the stay on the record until are ah omnibus hearing on the 22nd (br); Thank you very much your honor(JMW) alright thank you will stand adjourned
Unoffical Transcript of 12/8/2012 hearing
(Br): Ah we have a status conference on the agenda today everything else has been handled . Ah I would like to report that ah although Judge Lyons did not send a letter or report to you he Asked me to represent to you that the mediation is on going , that all of the parties are working very hard and they stay you have implemented by way of the order should remain in affect….ah (jmw): for how long (br): well your honor we do have another Omnibus Hearing set for the 22nd which is two weeks for today so it would be are hope to extend that and Judge Lyons Mediation at least through that period of time. As I indicated your honor the parties have been working very, very hard meeting non stop to try and reach an agreement ah and at this point while we cannot say we have an agreement we can say we are still working towards that. With that in place your honor it is are hope that we could reach some sort of agreement that would lead us or allow us to get to a confirmation hearing in the middle of February and an effective date at the end of February and the reason for that your honor obviously as we have talked about many times the ongoing burn rate associated with the chapter 11 cases and the occurrence or accrual of post petition interest and therefore the reduction of returns with respect to some of the lower classes. Your honor if I could ask for a special indulgence which is to try and meet that time frame. Ah what we were looking for is if we are successful in reaching an agreement , and again no promises that we are, but if we are and we are able to file something by this coming Monday , which is a goal of the debtors, to try and have a discloser statement hearing the week of January 9th ……..what that does your honor presumably your honor you have …….19 days ah for the balance of December 11 more in January ,but we would ask therefore to have discloser statement objections ah received by January 4th . It’s a slight shortening your honor of what would be a twen….ah 28 day period. And so if we were to do it on say January 11th and a week before to understand any objections that might be interposed. Again your honor the goal here to move forward obviously it would be a tentative holding date…..and ah if we did not meet our time frame we would come back and ask you for an alternative time period. (JMW): well I can give you a hold date daah.. certainly ummm……………January the 11th you are looking for……..how about 2 o’clock (br): That would be fine your honor…………….with the goal we would have objections before that, so we would be able to put something together and get it to you a clean copy with any charts …ahh by Monday the 9th by 5:00pm so you would have at least two days to consider it. (JMW)……..ahh ok . (Br) That’s so.. (Jmw) But we have no idea when you’ll be filing ah(br): Well you honor it’s like I said we think no later than Monday …aannd if in fact we cannot meet that time frame ahhh we would release the hold date your honor and come back and talk with you, if we could arrange a status conference and let you know where things are………(JMW) Alright that fine. (br) Thank you your honor.
(jmw) You may (?starke) (unintelligible)starke on behalf of Brown Ruddick and the ad hoc TPS consortium I really did come here not intending to say anything just intending to learn umm but I sort of can’t help myself after the request for a hold date. Ah ah um Mr. Rosen talked about all of the parties being involved in a process uhh I don’t know which parties he is referring to litigating… urrr …or litigaaa…in his mind’s eye iterating them down. Ahh I don’t know if his list of parties is ,,is .. is inclusive as our list of parties ,but we will leave that issue aside. Ahhh I have no idea what deal will be in a plan someday perhaps . Ahh I have no idea what our objections will be to that deal I don’t know about today. Ah I presume umm, knowing this case, being in it as long as I have, we will have objections to whatever I don’t know about today. Ummm and so the idea of advance ramming into a status conference , that we should have a discloser statement hearing on advance notice with advance ah .. obligations for people to file discloser statement objections seems a little bit procedurally premature… a hold date is just that a hold date, but I just did not want my failure to arrive and to say something about that the..Can’t come back to haunt me at another hearing. (JMW) ahh yeah I think we have to wait and see what the changes are that ahhh ah…. will be in the black line I guess, but ahh I will reserve everybody’s right..(?B) Thank you your Honor. (JMW) alright. (br): you honor just to pick up one point ah to the debtor and the debtors meeting with the parties as requested by Judge Lyons to the extent that judge Lyons excused certain parties from the mediation that’s nothing we can be involved with your honor, but we are working very hard with all of the parties Judge Lyons is having at the mediation. (JMW) Alright well I… (br): And your Honor I would say uhhh Congratulations cause Judge Lyons has been doing a very nice job and he has been available to al of us a moments notice.l(emphasis) (jmw) Well aaahh I am very happy he is doing it (laughter in court) hopefully it will reee… uh mean that I have less work uh(br) :(in background) We hope so. (Jmw) I will extend the stay on the record until are ah omnibus hearing on the 22nd (br); Thank you very much your honor(JMW) alright thank you will stand adjourned
Point out the word canceled. I can't seem read this quote, nor the other quotes after this post that have already been addressed.
Thanks.
imo
All Cap Trusts, subordinated debt, all types of preferreds, commons, etc. are toast.
Do not waste your time with this Lehman stuff unless you have some sort of senior obligation(s).
Trust me, you guys are just "spinning your wheels".
imo
EDIT: Would like to add that I hear that new stock is going to pay dividends now.
------------------------------
If you were to have held to the end, you have gotten new share shares, two set of warrants, and something else, based on general claims, if it exceeded a certain amount.
I, however, did not hold to the end, but sold during the run up because it was taking a little longer than I thought and I wanted to cash in to enter another security. Still did good though.
Finding gems that will make you good money are very hard now.
Good to know you remember me recommending it to you.
I will let you know if I come across something similar.
imo
Why, yes that is the security. If you know what I am.talking about, you must have been one of the ones that made money to. Made a nice change and also on the gm mini senior security. :)
"Illiquid" is not hedgie code for retail won't be filled on the smallest of orders. It is a term widely and commonly used.
I have been filed in illiquid securities before all the time. The most recent one I was filled on was a Lehman security tied to GM senior bonds which I made out nicely.
Illiquid means there are just not a lot of buyers or sellers. That creates an illiquid market. Supply and demand. You can't expect a market maker to sit around all day to fill your ticket while the other securities and trading at high frequency. Lets be realist please...
Do you own LEH cap trusts? If you do, then you were filled, right?
BTW, I am not the kind of person who cheers along with the "perfect storm" crew, and then when they are gone and no more cheering, blame anyone, including them for reality. Just have to face reality and the choices YOU make/made.
imo
Really.
" You can still trade caps and subs, but it does not mean recovery or distribution."
Volume or trading indicates otherwise imo. "Illiquid" is a hedgie code for retail won't be filled on the smallest of orders. I know. I have several unfilled while thousands have traded lower and higher.
... however, the security may be very illiquid . . . but still tradable...
Really.
" You can still trade caps and subs, but it does not mean recovery or distribution."
Volume indicates otherwise imo.
You can still trade caps and subs, but it does not mean recovery or distribution.
Commons/pref, the last time I looked were to be consolidated into 1 share w/ their respective tiers, as such, effectively no trading.
My outlook has not changed, toast...
imo
Read what I posted and then read what you posted.
Now the question: Where did I say the Cap trusts and sub notes are cancelled?
Your response makes no sense . . . or relevance nor does it dispute anything I have posted.
All you did was strengthen my position.
imo
I said:
The Godfather: I will keep my post brief and straight to the point because of time constraints. Anyone can chose to face reality or keep their "rose colored" glasses on.
Equity: preferrds and commons. Debtors keep them so they keep NOL carry forwards intact because all the major holder/institutions have already sold. Debtors canNOT have any major changes in ownership for at least 3 years or it will effect NOL carry forwards and reduce recovery for the creditors.
Cap trust/subordinate bonds (example: LEHNQ, LEHKQ, LEHLQ, CUSIP's etc.): Keep them intact. Why? So senior bonds can continue to enforce the subordination clause / make whole clause provisions. What does this do? Any distribution to cap/subordinate bonds are re-allocated to seniors bonds. Seniors bonds make (recover) more money than any other holding company creditor because they keep cap trusts/subordinate bonds intact. The reason why there is no ownership restriction on Cap Trust/subordinate bonds because it does not effect NOLs.
Using the combination of the above, yields a higher recovery for senior bonds because debtors are not paying any taxes (while enforcing the tax attributes on no ownership change re: NOLs) while they are liquidating Lehman and thus any taxes money not paid is then going to creditor.
Those of you know me, know I am straight shooter and tell it like it is.
In the end, I do not like to see people lose money and I want every one to make money.
People can choose to wait 5 to 10 years and be disappointed or face reality today.
Truth hurts, but I rather be the told the truth than lied to for many years... but that is just me.
imo
While you may be right that the CTS are considered to be Debt and not Equity and therefore do not preserve the NOLS, your statements are missing one very important fact:
1. If the Debtors cancel the CTS and other SUB NOTES in CLASSES 10A - 10C a trigger event of COD - Cancellation of Debt - will occur - which will reduce the NOLS by $ 15 B. There is a tax penalty for Canceling Debt - such as a reduction by the same $ amount in NOLS.
If the CTS/SUB NOTES are canceled/toast then so is $ 15 B in NOLS.
PG 126 - OF THE 2ND AMENDED DISCLOSURE STATEMENT -
" The IRC provides that a debtor in a bankruptcy case must reduce certain of its tax
attributes – such as current year NOLs, NOL carryforwards, tax credits, capital losses and tax
basis in assets – by the amount of any cancellation of debt (“COD”) incurred that arises by
reason of the discharge of the debtor’s indebtedness. Under applicable Treasury Regulations, the
reduction in certain tax attributes (such as NOL carryforwards) occurs under consolidated return
principles, as in the case of the Debtors who are members of the LBHI Group. "
Agreed, however, I am still weary of Willingham... until I see the DS. imo/eom
I concur, any settlement/GSA will be incorporated within the DS. To me, the settlement has been reached/accepted by EC, and all they (all parties) are doing now is DS/POR verbiage that will be acceptable to all parties. One of Parker Foses' arguments during the last confirmation was mediation should also include all parties in agreement to POR language to streamline the POR/Confirmation process without objections and more wasted estate resources.
Judge Walrath has stated no dual track (if I can remember correctly).
No peep/disagreement from EC lawyers while Rosen speaking re: filing of DS as soon as Monday and Rosen's mention of confirmation hearing in Feb 2012.
Everything "seems" to be headed in the right direction for a nice Xmas 2011/New Year 2012.
Well, gotta go, I have get back to work. tah tah
imo
Subordinates, in the same sinking boat as you. imo/eom
Wow... Sure does not change the Lehman POR. imo/eom
Joyce:
I have always advocated "diversification".
As for the "perfect storm" group, I did call out Brik, howver, I have no comment on coach.
imo
Phong67 said:
phong67 Member Profile phong67
Share
Tuesday, October 25, 2011 4:33:09 PM
Re: None
Post # of 1552
If anyone is interested, I have placed a sell order for 8742 shares at .09.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=68334474
VivaLasVegas Member Profile VivaLasVegas Member Level
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Tuesday, October 25, 2011 9:53:51 PM
Re: phong67 post# 1504
Post # of 1552
Give me a few minutes on Wed. I'll bid 7c.
LOL
Cheers and hang on tight!
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=68342456
phong67 Member Profile phong67
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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 11:17:06 AM
Re: VivaLasVegas post# 1510
Post # of 1552
OK Viva. I set the asking price to 7c now.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=68360817
VivaLasVegas Member Profile VivaLasVegas Member Level
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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 12:07:31 PM
Re: phong67 post# 1512
Post # of 1552
Really? I spent money on the D's .... Damn!
I'll snag them over the next few days if they last.
Gotta free up some money and wow am I locked up. LOL
Sorry I didn't see this earlier or you were out. Damn.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=68364074
phong67
Share
Thursday, October 27, 2011 11:34:04 AM
Re: VivaLasVegas post# 1513
Post # of 1552
Viva, I have 10K shares available at .7.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=68406719
Who is loud, you?
Usually the loudest (cough) cheerleader is the one dumping. =)
Like I (Dick Flud Jr.) said: would you rather be told the truth or be lied to? imo/eom
Ding ding ding!!! We have a winner. Yes, any money above $65 billions still goes to creditors up until the allowed claims amount.
Regarding your equity question (keep in mind, I do not know the poster nor do I endorse him, however, I can tell you that equity is toast):
Capinvest63 Member Profile Capinvest63
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Wednesday, December 07, 2011 12:12:51 PM
Re: None
Post # of 10140
Spoke to Lehman Attorney Yesterday
I posted this on yahoo as well. I spoke to Tom Hummel yesterday. Pardon if I misspelled his last name. A very congenial bloke. He explained that Common Shares will be "canceled" and that there will be no equity for Common holders.
He also stated that the first date of possible cancellation is January 31, 2012. That is unless Marsal & Alvarez request an extension. However he did not think the stock would trade beyond the 3rd Q.
He said specifics to the Common Shares are the expertise of another attorney at Weil, Gotschal and Manges, by the name of Rob Lemons. I have left him a message yet I doubt that any of the information will be materially different.
Disclosure: I sold all of my 1.2 million shares yesterday.
Best of luck to all.
The Godfather: I will keep my post brief and straight to the point because of time constraints. Anyone can chose to face reality or keep their "rose colored" glasses on.
Equity: preferrds and commons. Debtors keep them so they keep NOL carry forwards intact because all the major holder/institutions have already sold. Debtors canNOT have any major changes in ownership for at least 3 years or it will effect NOL carry forwards and reduce recovery for the creditors.
Cap trust/subordinate bonds (example: LEHNQ, LEHKQ, LEHLQ, CUSIP's etc.): Keep them intact. Why? So senior bonds can continue to enforce the subordination clause / make whole clause provisions. What does this do? Any distribution to cap/subordinate bonds are re-allocated to seniors bonds. Seniors bonds make (recover) more money than any other holding company creditor because they keep cap trusts/subordinate bonds intact. The reason why there is no ownership restriction on Cap Trust/subordinate bonds because it does not effect NOLs.
Using the combination of the above, yields a higher recovery for senior bonds because debtors are not paying any taxes (while enforcing the tax attributes on no ownership change re: NOLs) while they are liquidating Lehman and thus any taxes money not paid is then going to creditor.
Those of you know me, know I am straight shooter and tell it like it is.
In the end, I do not like to see people lose money and I want every one to make money.
People can choose to wait 5 to 10 years and be disappointed or face reality today.
Truth hurts, but I rather be the told the truth than lied to for many years... but that is just me.
imo
All Cap Trusts, subordinated debt, all types of preferreds, commons, etc. are toast.
Do not waste your time with this Lehman stuff unless you have some sort of senior obligation(s).
Trust me, you guys are just "spinning your wheels".
imo