Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Thx Dyno, but I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying. If SAGA drops, it wouldn't be beneficial to us. If they can hold the $10 or more pps after the 45M shares are added, and they div out the full 45M shares to us based on ENZC ownership (ENZC OS remains at 3,010,804,133), then it would be beneficial to us. We would gain $100K for every 1m shares we own (based on today's ENZC pps). Calculations shown below again.
However, since the make whole calculation happens prior to getting the shares, if it drops as soon as we get the shares (45M added), than it wouldn't be beneficial.
1M ENZC Shares = 0.03321% (This is based on ENZC current OS, not the 5B used in their example)
45,000,000 x 0.003321 = 14,946 SAGA Shares
14,946 Saga Shares @ $10 = $149,460
1M ENZC Shares = $49,000
Gain of $100K+
This was my conclusion as well... And as long OTCN, INTL, PUMA, & STXG continue to hold us under 05 with unlimited shares, it's gonna be an uphill battle. Not to mention that if somehow we get close to .10 again, VIRT will rejoin the party to drive it back down.
Anyway, I originally saw yesterday's filing as an enormous slap in the face to commons, but then took some deep breaths last night and started analyzing it in more detail, which is when all of that post came to mind. However, if SAGA somehow does hold the $10pps after the 45m shares are added, and ENZC OS doesn't increases to 5B as used in filing example, it wouldn't as bad as I originally thought. The calculations would then break out as follows:
1M ENZC Shares = 0.03321% (This is based on ENZC current OS, not the 5B used in their example)
45,000,000 x 0.003321 = 14,946 SAGA Shares
14,946 Saga Shares @ $10 = $149,460
1M ENZC Shares = $49,000
Gain of $100K+
That said, I still don't like it as much as what we were all led to believe was going to happen with ENZC (SEC Reporting, Uplist, Appreciate to true value, go to naz, etc...), but it wouldn't be as bad as I originally thought. However, it really depends on whether or not SAGA retains a $10pps after the 45M shares are added, and whether or not ENZC's OS stays the same. Why did they 5B in the example? Also, we still have no idea why they added those 900M shares, but if they start hitting us while we're down here, they'll eventually push us back into the 03's, 02' or lower... Hopefully that's the not the case and our OS stays the same, while SAGA retains a $10pps
The success of the scenario depends on the value Biogenysis and Virogentics can create in the meantime.
Normally that's how it should work rockie, but they're not going to allow this over .05 for some reason. I don't know if it has to do with the SAGA deal and/or something else, but after 2.5+ years of this, it's obvious somebody wants this down here, and Charles & Co have never cared about it/addressed it.
As I said yesterday, once the little teaser was over, they'd drop back under 05 and stack it, which is exactly what they've done. If we get good news/test results, maybe we'll see .052 for a portion of a day, but as we've seen, they'll erase it all the following day. PUMA, INTL, OTCN, & STXG control this and unless that stops, the 2.5+ year Groundhog Day continues. You don't have to take my word for it, just pull up the chart, then pull up OTCM with all the news links/dates, and match up the dates we heard something good on the chart. So easy to see....
foxi, I've got a couple a questions that you may know the answer to and/or for those who interpreted the filing different from me, and are seeing it as though we're gaining from this.
1. SAGA right now has roughly 4.7M OS, and a market cap of about $48M. Yesterday's example showed them taking the $450M, and using it split up 45M new SAGA shares at $10 value. Does everyone think that SAGA will remain at $10 or higher when they add 45M new shares, or will that pps drop down to somewhere between 0.97 - 3.99? (I'll explain below where the .97-3.99 are coming from)
- Right now ENZC MC is roughly $149M and SAGA is roughly $47,766,244. SAGA is purchasing ENZC for $450M by adding 45M shares to their OS and giving to ENZC. So, if SAGA adds 45M shares to their OS, and does this with a market cap of $47,766,244, it drops their pps down to roughly $0.98. However, since they're acquiring BGEN/VIRO, which basically hold all of ENZC value, what will that add to their value/MC? For ENZC, it's only $149M, so if we add that $149M to SAGA's pre-purchase market cap of $47,766,244, it would give them a post-purchase MC of $196,766,244.
SAGA pre-purchase OS = 4,346,337
SAGA post-purchase OS = 49,346,337 (4,346,337 + 45M new shares div'd to ENZC Shareholders)
$196,766,244 ÷ 49,346,337 = $3.98pps
For example, I'll use the example everyone was using yesterday, which included a 5B OS for ENZC. If somebody owns 1M shares of ENZC, they would receive 9,000 shares of SAGA valued at $10. If this were true, then they would see the gain below:
1M ENZC shares currently = $49K
9K SAGA Shares at $10 = $90K
Gain of $41K
However, what if that SAGA drops to $3.98 after the 45M new shares are added?
1M ENZC shares currently = $49K
9K SAGA Shares at $3.98 = $35,820
Loss of (-$13K)
My point here is that I saw a lot of calculations yesterday suggesting that we were gaining so much because everyone was using a SAGA pps of $10, but the question is, will it remain at $10 or higher once they purchase BGEN/VIRO & add the 45M new shares? I believe that ENZC (BGEN & VIRO) would need to be valued at/have a pre-purchase MC of an additional $296,697,126 to keep SAGA pps at $10 post purchase. The make-whole calculation happens before they pay the dividend to us, but will the 45M shares be added to their OS prior to that, so SAGA has an accurate MC before the dividend? Anyway, what I'm getting at here is that whether or not those shares are actually valued at $10 or higher when we receive them, will depend on ENZC's MC at the time of transaction. If we only have a $149M MC at the time of the transaction, where does the extra $296M come from that SAGA's MC will need to maintain a $10pps after adding 45M new shares?
2. If ENZC takes the full $450M to create 45M new SAGA shares to div out to ENZC shareholders, where is the money coming from to fund trials, which is what they originally told us this deal was for?
Ok. SA is correct. They used an OS of 5B in that example, so I think the calculation I used of 14,946 for every 1M ENZC would apply. That is unless they screw us further and actually increase our OS to 5B prior to the deal, which at this point would not shock me.
I would be happy with SAGA deal if ENZC retained the value we were led to believe they were going to bring to market under ENZC. However, I completely disagree wtih you, as I am not happy with a reverse split polished as something else. Also, it seems the market is leaning more towards my line of thinking, or we'd actually see ENZC pps move up for once; and I don't mean to 05, 06, I mean Beyond the ridiculous and intentional level it's at now. If this was such a good deal for ENZC shareholders, the market would be racing to get shares, but thats just not happening.
Yeah. I see that now. Thanks... Wow. That's even worse than what I was figuring, so we end up with 9,000 shares for every 1Mm shares of ENZC we own. Not big deal that we keep the 1M ENZC when they're selling all of their value.
I genuinely believe that if we can show that they were working towards this kind of deal at the same time they were telling all of us that they were working to get ENZC sec reporting and uplist, as well as at the same time they were tweeting #Audit, #Uplist, ENZC Rocket Ships, etc..., then we could definitely bring a class action.
Where are you getting 900 for every 100,000 ENZC shares? That's even worse than what I was calculating. They said it would be done using 45million SAGA shares vs ENZC ownership %.
So, if you own 1M ENZC shares, that is 0.03321% ownership.
0.0003321 x 45,000,000 = 14,946 SAGA Shares
Somebody owns 5 million shares of ENZC. ENZC goes to a 3 dollars, which we were led to believe was more than a guarantee (C3 at $9B per year), that person now has $15M dollars, and ENZC MC is $9B. The volume we see in the sub-dollar stocks when BIG news hits, this is much easier/more likely than SAGA going to $201 shown below
Those 5M shares are now 74,730 in SAGA. SAGA needs to hit $200.72 for that to happen, and that would put SAGA at $9.9B MC. (SAGA OS currently 4,346,337 + the 45M they'll add for us)
My point here is that we've been led to believe for 2.5+ years that they were working behind the scenes to bring ENZC to it's true value, which is why many of us held when we could've sold for 7 figures (not talking about the fun run to .958, I'm talking about the mini runs to .30, .20, then .16, then .13). Now we learn that we're basically being rewarded with a reverse split, but because the resulting shares are SAGA and we get to keep our ENZC shares, which will go back to trips, they're not calling it one.
Yes 2b. I feel they pulled the rug out from under us, as we've been led to believe for 2.5+ years that ENZC would go SEC Reporting. That they were working to move ENZC to the big boy exchanges. That ENZC would appreciate to realize the true value of clone 3, ITV1, AI, etc... Now all of that goes away for $450M, and ENZC goes down the drain, while everything moves to SAGA, where we'll hold 1.5% of the qty of shares we held in ENZC. It is a Reverse Split plain and simple, but they're polishing it up like it's something better. I can't believe more people can't see it.
Can we still make $$? Sure. Will it be anywhere near what we would've made if they followed through on what they've been telling us for 2.5+ years? Not even remotely close.
Not the way I understand it. My understanding is that they said it would be based on % of ENCZ ownership vs the 45,000,000 SAGA shares they'll have to dividend out. So if you own 1M ENZC shares, that comes out to 0.03321% based on current OS.
0.0003321 X 45,000,000 = 14,946 SAGA Shares for every 1M ENZC shares owned. So we'll end up with 1.5% of the ENZC shares we currently own, but they'll be in SAGA shares. We will retain our ENZC shares, but as the filing stated, ENZC will have no assets and no operations, so those ENZC shares will go back to trips at best. Worthless. Also, the big clue here of what to expect for ENZC's future is that our CEO, COO, CSO, etc.... are all moving to SAGA. While they say they may retain their positions in ENZC, I think it's obvious they're focus is SAGA, not ENZC.
I'm not sure where that extra 9K shares is coming from. There is a make whole clause, so if SAGA is trading less than $10, we may get more or something like that. However, they'll just do the opposite of what they've done here. With ENZC, they've held this down for years. With SAGA, I'm sure they'll pay a few MM's to do the opposite and maintain it at/above $10.
I think your first part of the post is correct. Our chances at generational wealth went down the drain with this deal. However, I believe that Charles had this planned the entire time, which is what makes me so upset. He continued telling us they were going SEC Reporting and uplisting for the past 2.5+ years, and then out of the blue drops the bomb in the first SAGA PR that "ENZC will continue on Pinks." Although he left out the part that it will be absolutely worthless. Not to even mention all of the Chandra #Uplist & #Audited and rocket ship tags, and talk of ENZC exploding, and yachts, etc....
When I posted earlier that I believe we have grounds for a class action, I wasn't joking. Not only do I genuinely believe we do, I believe that it's time for those of us who see this for what it is, to start researching those options. If the deal goes through as explained today, they have screwed us.
2b - The way that I understand it is that Charles basically sold ENZC for $450M. Robustomed, which currently doesn't even have a pipeline is the only thing left, once this deal goes though. Clone 3, ITV1, AI, etc... will all belong to SAGA.
In other words, I think the simplest way to put it is that Charles cleaned up ENZC, by selling all of its IP to SAGA, where he, Chandra, and the rest will also be going. As ENZC shareholders, we will get a SAGA dividend, which will literally be a fraction of the shares that we own in ENZC. Once we get the SAGA shares, per today's filing, ENZC is empty with no assets or operations. What do you think our ENZC shares that we've been holding for years will be worth then? So to sum up, as I've been saying, it is the equivalent of a Reverse split, but since the resulting fraction of shares that we get are SAGA and not ENZC, they're spinning it at something else and not calling it a Reverse split.
After the dividend to Company E shareholders, there would be no assets or operations in
Company E, but management would be able to purchase new operations or develop other
products that would be the assets of Company E. The Company E common shares would
continue to trade on OTC Markets as a new business strategy is implemented.
D3 I think you're wrong here. They sold all of ENZC except robustomed. Today's filing states that they (ENZC) owns 90% until the dividend is paid out, at which point ENZC owns no assets and has no operations. We do not retain 90% of it. We retain 0% once they pay the dividend.
The issuance of the Purchase Shares to Company E will result in a 90% plus ownership position of Company S until the Purchase Shares are paid as a dividend to the shareholders of Company E.
After the dividend to Company E shareholders, there would be no assets or operations in
Company E, but management would be able to purchase new operations or develop other
products that would be the assets of Company E. The Company E common shares would
continue to trade on OTC Markets as a new business strategy is implemented.
Catpole, I cannot stress how badly I hope you are correct. Today's filling literally made me sick to my stomach. These past 2.5+ years I've been hoping/praying that Charles would keep his word and deliver the things he's been talking about, but I genuinely see this as nothing more than giving us a reverse split while selling the company for $450M. I know you disagree, and thats ok, but I cannot even put into words how disappointing I found today's filing.
That said, I feel especially bad for those who purchased ENZC shares at .30, .40, .50+, and those who hold smaller amounts. They're getting royally screwed.
LOL... Agreed SA..... Earlier I said they'd push us back to .0475ish before close, so he was sitting there waiting/hoping I was wrong (i was hoping I was wrong too, but I know the pattern all too well) so he could type that... I'll let him have his moment....
I know. This was years ago. I'm trying to find it in the filings. I can't remember what year it was/which filing, but If I'm remembering correctly (pretty sure I am), there were some debt holders that agreed not to convert, and instead were moved to the subs. At the time, all of us on the board loved it and though Charles was protecting us/ENZC, but he had to have shown/told them something, to get them to hold off converting/moving to subs.
Timing - Do you remember this? If so, do you remember what year/filing it was in?
A while back, at the end of 2020 or 2021, we had toxic debt holders that I believe took shares in the subs instead of converting the remaining shares they had in ENZC.
Well, now we know the answer as to why all of those toxic debt holders agreed to take shares in the subs. We were led to believe that Charles was protecting ENZC, but really he must've had this planned for a while. Didn't have SAGA in the works back then, but it would seem that he knew all along that this was the route they were taking, otherwise those toxic debt holders wouldn't have taken shares in the subs.
Now, that brings up the inevitable question, if he knew back then and/or that is what he discussed with those toxic debt holders to get them to take shares in the subs, why did he continuing stating that they were working to get ENZC SEC Reporting and uplisted?
Natty - It depends how you look at it. Many of us have been here for 3+ years and have passed up on 7+ figures because we were led to believe that ENZC would be the one to realize it's true value. We were told C3 alone was worth over $9B per year. For years, we got #Uplist and #Audit and rocketship icons from Chandra on Twitter, not to mention his talk of yacht buying. We were told ENZC (NOT SAGA) was going fully SEC Reporting to get out of pinks, misleading everyone to believe they were working towards moving ENZC to the bigger exchanges. . Instead, they sell off everything of value for $450M, leaving ENZC with nothing. We end up with a fraction of the shares that we currently hold in ENZC, and those SAGA shares will also be short-term tax shares.
Will we/can we make some $$ off of the SAGA shares? Sure. Will it be anywhere close to what we were led to believe was coming to ENZC? Not even remotely close. They're giving us a Reverse Split. Anyway you dice it, that's what it comes out to. Over the next few weeks as the pps drops into the 03's, and probably lower, people will start to understand it.
Couldn't agree more. They're using SAGA to avoid calling it what it is. A Reverse Split/Slap in the face.
Bonnie, the way that I read today's filing is this. Let's say you own 1M ENZC shares. With this, you'll end up with 14,946 SAGA shares for every 1M ENZC shares you own. Once those shares are given to you via dividend, ENZC will own no assets and have no operations, so while you will still own 1M ENZC shares, they will be absolutely worthless with no ops, assets, and it seems mgmt will be at SAGA. Even if they have duel roles SAGA/ENZC, what are they going to be working on at ENZC, when it owns no assets? As I've been saying today, this is nothing more than a reverse split, but because you'll end up with SAGA shares still retain worthless ENZC shares, they're not calling it a Reverse Split. It is a slap in the face for those who held strong when they could've cashed out for 7+ figures.
Before you ask, I arrived at the 14,946 based on what the PR said. They are taking 45M SAGA shares and giving to ENZC shareholders as dividend based on % ownership. If you own 1M ENZC shares, that is 0.0332134% ownership of ENZC.
0.000332134 x 45,000,000 = 14,946
14,946 X $10 pps = $140,946
Xtermetz1 - I obviously completely agree. Yes, we were 100% misled over and over and over again, only to end at a reverse split, and some are rejoicing in it. Unbelievable!
Regardless, I'm not joking when I say that those of us who see this for what is, should start researching class action legal avenues, because this is the biggest kick in the balls/slap in the face from Charles & Co. When all is said and done, we end up with a fraction of the shares we currently own, and with no assets or operations, the millions of ENZC shares that we own will be worthless/back in trips at best. How can anyone see this as a win. Especially those who may only hold 100K shares or so, which they purchased before the nonstop intentional and allowed control/push down began? They're royally screwed!
2b I really don't know. I believe the tiny bit of green seen today will be completely erased tomorrow as usual, if not by end of today. I believe that those who are actually excited about this are missing the fact that ENZC will be no more after the dividends. We're not getting SAGA and retaining value in ENZC. That is not happening. While we will retain our ENZC shares, they will be worthless. They clearly stated in today's filing that ENZC will have zero assets and operations after the dividend is paid. So the millions of shares that many of us have been holding because WE WERE LEAD TO BELIEVE THAT ENZC (NOT SAGA) WOULD BE GOING SEC REPORTING, AND WOULD REAP THE BENEFITS OF THEIR TECH AND APPRECIATE TO TRUE VALUE, will actually become worthless. In return for those millions of shares we've all been holding, we will get thousands of shares of SAGA. It is 100% a Reverse Split, but because the resulting shares that we're getting (fraction of the ENZC shares we own) are SAGA and not ENZC, they're not calling it a Reverse Split.
I've been warning of this for a while. No matter how great we all think a pinkie CEO, they always turn out the same. They all view us as "penny holders" and in the end, we always get the same thing. Less shares valued higher, which is a reverse split.
I hope you right MAtat, but I don't believe so. What they put out today is exactly what I was afraid was going to happen. The millions of shares we're holding in ENZC will become thousands of shares (Short term tax shares) in SAGA. It is the equivalent of an RS.
its ok if you don't understand. One day you will....
Give it time genius. They will push us back under 05 prior to close. Same thing every day. I wish they wouldn't but that won't change it.
I say dumping because they are dumping the newly unrestricted shares. This is when OTCN joined the party, as well as INTL on the ask side.
Yes, but the problem is that they are there to dump. I've been wondering why are they dumping so much if ENZC future and this deal is so bright? Today's news gave me the answer to that.
rocky - interpret as you wish. PUMA/OTCN/INTL are in complete control and nothing I say/do can change that. We've seen this for 2.5+ years straight, all I've done is point it out.
In regards to today's news, I don't know how Dyno and I are the only ones to see it, but they just told us they're RSing us, without RSing. Because the resulting shares will be SAGA, they're not calling it an RS, but that's exactly what it is. They clearly say, once the dividend is paid, ENZC will have no assets or ops. How much do u think our ENZC shares will be worth when that happens?
I hope I am, but it appears to me that the 3-amigos are still controlling the ask, and dropping as soon as they get the chance. We've seen this over and over again for 2.5+ years straight. As soon as they can get the ask back to 05 or less, they'll immediately stack under it, and thats all she wrote. It never changes. As much I'd love it to, it just doesn't.
This is just the most recent from 2022, when they "completed" 2021-2022.
https://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/ENZC/news/Enzolytics-Inc-Announces-the-Completion-of-the-2020-and-2021-Audited-Financials?id=384232
Enzolytics, Inc. announces the completion of the 12/31/2020 and 12/31/2021 audited financials. The Company has refiled the 12/31/2021 Disclosure Statement reflecting the completion of the audit covering 2020 and 2021. These filings provide investors with detailed audited information about the Company's operations, business strategies, and financials. The reports will assist the Company's investors in understanding the Company's operations and its focus. In conjunction with the completion of the audits, and as part of the Company's ongoing commitment to transparency and accountability, Enzolytics is planning to become a fully reporting 34 Act Filer with the SEC.
Where is the AI Intellectual Property going to be at:
AI is owned by BGEN, and therefore will belong to SAGA
100% correct! It is the equivalent of an RS, only the result shares that we end up with, would be in SAGA. Because of this, they're not calling it an RS, but thats what it is.
Whenever the dividend would happen, ENZC shareholders would own their proportional amount in SAGA shares, ENZC would hold no more equity in SAGA and all of VIRO and BGEN, plus IP and licensing, would belong to SAGA. ENZC would be left with its ticker, its lawsuits, its subsidiary RobustoMed, and would probably need a new management team since the current team has announced new roles at SAGA.