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interesting stuff CJ, thanks. eom
CJ,nope.did PubMed search, and found nothing more. lots on Avastin (still).
bungler,hear,hear.greatpost.eom
robert c, you asked my opinion re. "One of the points poo-poo'ed on the BV Board was the idea that Bavi seems to take longer than normal to elicit a reaction than other drugs. Their opinion is that an immunological response takes days, if not hours, to incarnate." They are right about time to onset. However, Bavi DOES become "incarnate" within minutes, not hours or days. The critics are not scientists, and apparently know even less than i do about immunology. One easy way of explaining it is, we don't want to create an immediate type anaphylaxis. That's one immunological response that really gets attention. People die. Let me have a show of hands here. All out there, raise your mouse if you've actually felt a cancer? excised one...cut into it and felt its texture. Looked under the microscope at the gazillions of cells and in some cases, very difficult (chaotic) support scaffolding. A dose of Bavi just is not going to get it. The idea is to stop the metastasis, stop the growth, use Bavi chronically. Remember, it has been established to be effective in a nose spray. Whew, I really got wound up on that one.
hopefully the statistical signicance of reason will trump in these trials. great discussions lately. I agree with the poster who suggested that management consider a PR of clarification in re. to the PII MOS questions broadcast here. It would be a wonderful way to focus public and stockholder attention on the critical analysis about to take place. The consensus on "the street" (doctor offices in this case) is that MABs have not lived up to their promise. Avastin faults and Erbitux failures in the solid cancer arena is a reality alluded to on this board in numerous posts, and that reality is obviously at least one reason why the world is not looking to MABs for a cure. The emergent strategy of cancer containment, and cancer as a chronic disease, is gradually supplanting the quest for a cure. This is everywhere apparent as we move further into the genetics of the disease, and an eventual genetic approach to the problem. My take on Bavitux is that it has unmasked a vast new area of inquiry into immunological mechanisms of cancer, and that it will be a part of cancer treatment in the near future. all[of course]IMO
wow,FTM,good get. spectacular. For only a moment I was about to pile on...nope, nomore. magic.
Almy, amen. good twist on the subj.eom
cj,great compendium of "Garnick-says". I can imagine how much time these searches require, and always appreciate your efforts.
pphm_mike.stick around.that post had nothing to do with you. it was tacked onto your post as an answer, but was unrelated to you or anything you wrote. That's my take on it.
nice posts dr.rocker. ditto mahoney&aspen. welcome. eom
pphm_mike, you would rather sit on dry powder than shoot it off on a dip like this? too painful.
loof, save some for xmas. Pphm stock makes great stocking stuffers for the kids and grandkids...'specially if you get to keep tradin' it. Couldn't buy them a better xmas present on Mon AM...brite'n early.
r622.no truer words ever spoken....eom
bought 7k on the dip. interesting!!
thanks tech. good news. eom
FTM,too funny. I am a few miles away in Santa Rosa at the moment. Both of us in Sonoma County, the world's wine barrel? Let's have lunch, and stay on topic here about PPHM so we don't get deleted.
aikifredicist, well said. This is one announcement I don't think will precipitate a "sell the news" reaction. Wouldn't it be a hoot if the sell-off today was from this rather important announcement: "Data presented yesterday(1) at AACR demonstrated that a near-infrared-labeled PS-targeting imaging agent (NIR-PGN650) was able to specifically identify and target multiple solid tumors. Data also showed that NIR-PGN650 could demonstrate a measurable increase in PS exposure in tumors following chemotherapy." This is of enormous import. Maybe the buildup was, in part, in anticipation of that PPHM announcement which was almost overlooked, and definitely overshadowed by the sell-off.
wook, heavy: You wrote, "Data presented yesterday(1) at AACR demonstrated that a near infrared-labeled PS-targeting imaging agent (NIR-PGN650) was able to specifically identify and target multiple solid tumors. Data also showed that NIR-PGN650 could demonstrate a measurable increase in PS exposure in tumors following chemotherapy."
honest abe, agreed. Honest men maligned gets to me a tad.
bungler, good question for the immunogenetic engineers. BaviImaging would have to have a "label" and form an image for recording the parameters of size, shape, metabolic activity, and the presence of other specially propitious docking sites/targets on tumor. I saw somewhere in the literature that Bavi loses some specificity for the -PS docking site when both arms are not free to dock [way oversimplified], but that seems a "fixable" issue which has probably already been accomplished. It is possible that the "therapeutic" arm to be amputated might, in fact, be carrying a "contrast agent". Magnetic imaging-like modalities and PET-like applications could be used to locate Bavi-in-the-body. Hope this elicits the real answer for you Bungler.
Newbies. Free the Mice last post here says it all. The Chicago Thoracic Medicine meeting which convenes its Plenary Session 9 trading days hence, will "star" PPHM scientists announcing, during a "late breaking" slot...what? What more to say? A hoax?
I have followed PPHM for several years, and can attest to the understated ethical behavior and announcements made to date by all its employees. It would be hugely uncharacteristic of this distinguished body of scientists to be involved in a sham. Won't happen. My money remains on Thorpe, UTSW, and PPHM...and a few hundred other "consultants" and supporters who are seeing a glimmer. Today's scenario with PPHM stock is inappropriate in societies dedicated to pushing forward with all haste in our effort to convert cancer to a chronic disease rather than terrible demise. Cutting the therapeutic arm off MAB BAVI to prove it is a good imaging agent. I that where we're at in clinical trials protocols? That one needs rethinking fast.
free the mice...free the mice!! some vacation when you're in Napa kicking back spending BaviBucks, and then PPHM takes a ChinaSwoon. (Tanks nitwit)we are in dire. FTM. Repeat. We NEED you. Think. What happens if IT happens again. Nads on walls? SeLL? Naw.
Nitwit, superlative style. tankew. eom.
Firefox,fab post.Tanks.BaviImaging? Swhats it mean? BaviImaging?
You mean the MAB that homes in selectively on tumor vasculature?
And you say "they" made PPHM scientists AMPUtate one arm of double-armed Bavituximab. You said it was "the therapeutic arm" of Bavi that must be cut off for the Bavi Diagnostic Imaging Trial. OMG! What nut in which government branch thought up that one? Here's the paradigm: LOOKING FOR CANCER but cannot treat possible cancer with the same drug at the same time? What an education the PPHM pathway/trajectory has been.
clonepone, amen. best post of the day. eom
ftm, nice post thanks. it does put things in perspective. I'll be surprised if this thing doesn't take off like a rocket at opening tomorrow.
golfho, welcome back into the control group...eom
fab cj, thanks. sounds like the real deal. exciting.eom
ftm, yes congress plenary sessions are not where one squeezes in a report of a failure in clinical trials, especially if you're an unknown smallcap. this should generate some unbelievable interest. can't wait for Bavi-irradiation trial results.
cj, in conferences of this nature there are "proceedings" published on the basis of a printed copy of a presentation, or transcription of tape recordings, along with a summary. An abstract in such meetings is a "teaser", but far from the full content of the presentation. The subject matter in this case can include up-to-the-minute results. On another subject, one interpretation of PPHM continued presence at (better and better quality) financial/investor meetings is a statement of sorts about management still having the option to go it alone? That, or a well-orchestrated head feint.
cj, nice [important] post. A "must read" for all.
rrdog, wow. a late breaking presentation into a lung cancer [thoracic oncology] conference which meets in less than a month is a strong positive signal imo. thanks for the info
action:reaction. Newtonian? We all know "chemotherapy" is, perforce, cyto[plasm]-toxic[poison]. Kills cells. So too is irradiation: cellular cremation. A burn.
Specificity, specificity, specificity.
Where? More focused cancer cell irradiation,
(radiation in the form of tumor-site delivery, ex.: radioactive iodine borne to cancer core by PPHM anti-TNT MAB, Cotara.
And then there's PPHM's MAB Bavituximab, an immunological stimulant. Might encourage permanent cancer immunity.
Specific cancer imaging? Bavi labels it nicely, and appears to be at least as good as current imaging techniques with the added advantage of helping the body fight cancer in several important ways. For cancer imaging imagine Avid, PPHM's wholly owned MAB production company, with its first Bavi-comopany spin-off: "Imaging Immunogens, Inc."
I was involved in some early(1970)cancer immunity human trials during the BCG-vaccine-for-cancer-craze, and hopeful of finding the answer in immunology. Then, as now, I was impressed by the difference between untreated and treated patients, and how important early cancer detection. Smaller tumor means smaller cytotoxing, i.e. Bavi-like immuno-enhancers, and phasing out chemotherapy as detection increases. Meanwhile we're stuck dealing with the side effects of irradiation and chemotherapy. The good news is that we understand the side-effects more and more each year as cancer survivors live longer. There appears to be justification for the increased enthusiasm here for near-term prospects of PPHM. A couple critical assumptions remain to be, uh, "locked up". Optimism though is different than hyperbole, and playing with imaginary riches is just plain fun. Speaking of hyperbole, in addition to PPHMs dynamite pipeline, the best thing about the company is management's [prior] total lack of hyperbole, and now a deluge of upbeat pronouncement and body language uncharacteristically by a mile of this management team.
We longsufferers will never be able to say we were not alerted. Bavi's inventor, Phil Thorpe, PhD, at UTSW (pharm dept) is more convinced (and convincing) than ever. Of great value to PPHM too, and greatly entertaining, is this website whose denizens are extrordinarily well-rounded, informed, and literate. It great fun and informative to be able to follow corporate events with y'all here. Cheers!
free and sunstar, more likely for "inoperable" lung cancers Bavi + irradiation would render salvage surgery in some cases more of a possibilty. The "inoperability" of many lung cancers often relates to the tumor's proximity to other vital structures, which also limits irradiation dose. Again, a Cotara-like agent, which can deliver cytotoxic RAIodine to residual cancer [stem?]cells, in combination with Bavi- and SBRT irradiation would be the most sensible combination
Thanx y'all for the great discussion of PPHM's BavituxiMAB use along with focused irradiation for LungCA treatment. Undeniably, PPHM has not hesitated to get in the ring against the toughest CAs. Bavi-imaging and Bavi + irradiation is another vast aspect of anti-PS technology, another corporate department if you will. If we need something to focus attention, that is the PPHM department that will do it. And to finish off those stubborn surviving "core cancer [stem?] cells", those in the miasma of dying cancer cells in the tumor center, until armed Bavi- can carry the RAIodine to them, there is always PPHM's anti-TNT MAB, Cotara.
In regard to Bavi acting alone, it seems it has probably been established that Bavi alone has weak tumorcidal effect, but not a wallop, so stand-alone Bavi awaits much smaller and earlier cancers. Bavi is "double-fisted", and is capable of carrying a payload, but loading one fist of the MAB and leaving only one -PS site available for docking causes considerable loss of specificity for the loaded MAB missile. Certainly that, and more fully humanized Bavi hybrids are on the conceptual drawing boards. Agree with posters here who think there's a sizable crowd gathering on the sidelines. Because of PPHM management ethical communications in the past, I am inclined to side with the optimistic views expressed here so often of late.
nuke, thank you for the post. The reality is that most the investing world is still hanging back, and only because there are no hard numbers. PPHM is trading very small dollar volume even though it has moved up dramatically lately for no apparent reason other than a need to stay on the NASDAQ board. And the relatively low-level total dollar value allows the stock to be inexpensively manipulated to trap a few more dollars. At this point all results remain anecdotal and rumor. Investing in PPHM remains speculative, but among old-timers here there seems to be a consensus that things are different this time. If management is flaunting numbers, as you suggested,they're flaunting what to date they do not have...only what they are projecting...and all bets are off until the numbers crunchers make a pronouncement. It's conceivable the latter are the holdup. Could be a squeaker. I've predicted that once some time ago. Could also be a miracle. The point is that at this moment all possible story endings are still possible here. Fairy tale ending? I would love it. I agree wholeheartedly when you said: "Not reaching an endpoint is just as relevant and maybe more relevant in this case than reaching it." You asked if I think you're jumping out ahead of yourself, and I think so, but it's a reasonable bet, and getting better daily. Besides, getting out ahead of your competition is how you make the high dollars. Good luck nuke...and y'all.
nuke, still waiting for the data they're flaunting. eom
Saturday nite perspective: Holding pattern. Consolidation after recent tripling of price. Relative price flatness this week. 4 million shares/day average in past ten days. That means $3.5 million spent buying, and an equal number sold. That equals 6000 shares of Apple bought/day, and Apple traded about 16000 shares/day average in that ten day period. Relatively, Perigrine remains either untouchable or unknown. At this point a dearth of stellar trial numbers for a treatment strategy of great sensibility, and Bavi's inventor, PPHM management, rumor, and bulls of various persuasions/expertise seem to be driving the stock price from a half dollar to almost three in as many weeks. It isn't stellar numbers. Will it happen--fulfillment of the hope and rumor that end-stage lung cancer patients treated with Bav+ standard of care chemotherapy are surviving longer than those without Bavi in the treatment mix? Bavi potential remains mind-boggling. The most compelling part of the standard of care narrative is that none of the most informed actors in the story--inventor and management--have ever before come out so strongly with an implied promise of success. Will Bavi live up to that [now] promise? Interesting and interestinger.
FTM, I don't think I've seen Thorpe commit to print so strongly as, "Bavituximab is a monoclonal antibody that is proving safe and effective as a second-line therapy in advanced lung cancer patients."
Agreewith you that late-stage cancer patient immune systems are in bad shape, certainly worse than those with early cancers. As you said, "their immune systems are very suppressed". I can’t remember if lower animal studies were performed comparing Bavi- alone, and Bavi with Docetaxel, vs. Docetaxel alone, or Bavi in untreated (by chemotherapy)vs.treated. Cancers are metabolic “sinks” that parasitize cellular building blocks, and detract from the body’s ability to reproduce healthy cells of all kinds, whether M1 monocytes, T-lymphocytes, or neutrophils, My fixation here on “less sick“ patients using Bavi- anticipates its use in very early cancers, and non-malignant diseases such as systemic lupus and other auto-immune diseases which are -PS affected but the patients are less ill, capable of significant anabolic activity, hopefully having not been treated previously or concurrently with cytotoxic agents.
rrdog, agree, listening to Thorpe's NYU talk once or twice should be routine DD, but a slow sled for non-scientists. It's great that his thinking has your (and my) endorsement as "the real deal". I continue to be a bit surprised by Thorpe's answer, "they are all pretty sick", when asked which patient subset benefited more from Bavi. IMO huge value resides in increased efficacy in less ill patients. Stated in the opposite, it is known that many of the most severely ill patients in clinical trials have immune systems that are in advanced states of collapse. I suppose the answer is, "we haven't been given the chance to try it in less ill patients." I hope that day comes soon.