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... Happy Holidays ~ My old friend ...
... I am VERY pleased that you will be with us all at the final of this deal' ... for the longest time I didn't see you posting and had no idea that you were over here on this board ...
Bless You, my friend and, as you know, I always wish you the very best ... I know you got hit extremely hard ... back when, ... but from me to you, I'm glad you got up and dusted yourself off and got back into the ring' ...
I posted a simplified sequence of events over on the other board that seems to be helpful to the folks ... check it out when you can ... (Susmans request for an examiner was pure legal genius and the disclosure statements explanation of the mechanics they used, impressive to say the least .... anyway' )
Actually ~ Happy Holidays to all of you all' over here on the hub' ...
AZ
... Guys' I don't post here often ...
However, for everyone involved, a revisit to the disclosure statement is a very interesting read ...
A separate issue from of all of the recent research done on the findings regarding, JPMorgan only receiving the servicing rights, WaMu's operations' as they themselves (JPM) state', of the extensive WMI loan file' ...
... The disclosure statement' itself, stipulates to the legal mechanism utilized to accomplish the debtors estate not having to be in a position to disclose WaMu's assets of the subs within any of the BK courts financial disclosures ... A to a ...
The open 6 year PA&A kept all assets seized by the OTS / FDIC, at an arms length distance, from any of WMI, the parents bankruptcy financial disclosures ...
Creditor classes all paid with WMI's own cash and tax returns ... While, all the time, the FDIC held all of the goodies initially earmarked for AAOC had Plan 6 been approved, safely kept within the FDIC's procedures regarding a seized entity ~ and no need for accounting while the unprecedented 6 year long PA&A stayed in tack' ...
(again, luckily 6 failed and equity was included with the approval of 7)
absolute legal genius at a minimum'
AZ
... Here You Guys Go' re; the WaMu Tower' ...
You guys can review this if you want ... I don't find this information very interesting, other than the early connections to Blackstone Capital Partners' ~ just prior to the 2008 seizure ... I found this when reviewing Trusts' ... I don't see this as any big deal ... "Equity Office Properties Trust" is a sub of Blackstone' ...
Here's a partial' list of a few of the buildings owned by Blackstone in downtown Seattle' and Bellevue' NBD ...
What is a big deal though is' ... Yep' it's true ~ I figure a minimum of a (2.7 posit') ... I'm like LG ... I surely do luv my markers ...
AZ
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Blackstone/ Equity Office downtown portfolio
Seattle CBD:
1111 Third Avenue
Columbia Center
Nordstrom Medical Tower
Second and Seneca
Second and Spring Building
Washington Mutual Tower
Wells Fargo Center
World Trade Center East
Bellevue CBD:
110 Atrium Place
City Center Bellevue
Key Center
One Bellevue Center
Plaza Center
Plaza East
Symetra Financial Center
Source: Equity Office Properties Trust
... Blackstone owned the Tower ...
Blackstone via one of its subs, owned the tower at the time of seizure ... WM leased space back'
... Not a big thing, in regards to the size of R's future returns to the debtors estate anyway ...
AZ
... That' Day Will Come Soon' ...
... "R" will NOT insert itself into a returning receivers or debtors estate while the parent has an open and ongoing bankruptcy ...
"R" will begin once WMI's bankruptcy issues finalize ... that should not be too much longer' ...
... Hello Boris and Thank You ...
I hardly post any information here for the reasons, that all of you know ...
Simply Put' ... Mike, not only accomplished a tremendous amount of future issues for equity ... (obviously) ... and, along the way, upset many of the playas' ... remember' he only held common stock, uq's ... and as we now know, Plan 7 allows for even the uq's to participate'
Happy Holidays to All'
AZ
... I Won't Argue, I'm Right ...
... I know the reasons, the motivations, and who the distractors are' ... your posts are well prepared, however, quite lacking in the true and proper presentations of the events as they actually occured' ...
... The documents are specific and posted' ...
AZ
... The Trust Markers and Their Recovery ...
... these discussions revolving around the Trust Markers future recovery and their recipients receipt of return funds are bothersome to a few due to the simple fact that, ... these returns validate the extreme amount of work that Mike & Ed did for all equity holders within the mediated result at the end of 2011 ...
... Many are still bothered by the accomplishments of our equity team within those forced mediated meetings and the end result, now realized by us all ...
To acknowledge the validity of the markers and their returns ... validates Mike and what he did for all of us equity holders ... that simple fact continues to bother many, that were against ... not only equity being included at all after the demise of plan 6, but then the removal of the absolute priority rule ...
The angst toward Mike is deep and real ... the documents show what was done for us all ...
The relevant documents have all been presented to all of the people that are interested and hold a stake in this' ...
Just for the record, ... I also hold a very large position in WMIH the new company and have every bit as strong beliefs in the upward future of WMIH as I do in the future recovery of the markers'
Happy Holidays to All'
AZ
... Boris' ... This is Direct From the Site' ...
... I thought I would put this out for you and others to read, this is directly off of the FDIC site regarding the finalization of its responsibilities ... Now, as nranger asked, earlier, I of course can not be sure, however, I do believe we are close ... I emphasized the following sentence from the text ... GLTA'
"While a receivership's average lifespan is three to six years, some may require longer time frames to conclude"
Notes to Financial Statements:
"1. Basis of Accounting: The FDI Act authorizes the FDIC, as receiver for a failed insured depository institution (''receivership''), to administer and conclude the affairs of such institution. Financial statement presentations are based on the premise that the assets of the receivership will be liquidated and proceeds distributed to the institution's creditors over time as provided by applicable laws and regulations. While a receivership's average lifespan is three to six years, some may require longer time frames to conclude. At the onset of a receivership, the failed institution's financial records are reviewed and restated to establish a new basis of accounting. The assets and liabilities of the failed institution are adjusted to remove all estimated losses, accruals, and deferrals. These adjustments include loss allowances; partial write downs; prepaid, deferred or accrued expenses having no recovery value; and accrued or deferred income. Restated balances are shown under the Inception Balance heading of the Statement of Assets and Liabilities in Liquidation. After inception, FDIC's liquidation valuation and measurement practices, as described more fully in the paragraphs that follow, are adopted for all assets and liabilities. In general, transactions are recorded when cash is received or disbursed. Accruals may be used when prospective cash flows are probable and reasonably estimated."
... Only My Opinion ~ ...
I believe "R" begins to finalized within a short period of time ...
so any day to a few more months ... the hard "waiting" is over ... In my opinion
AZ
... nranger .. great question
... "Trust Markers" Are Independent of the Bankruptcy ...
Individual Trust Markers received' ... are a product distribution of the original debtors estate' ... They are independent of the Bankruptcy ...
... This functions' in the same fashion as "Attachment H" to the Plans Confirmation ~ or as we refer to as the PayOut Matrix ... Equity class 19 and 22 currently being within Tranche 6 ...
... Attachment H' or the PayOut Matrix is Plan Directed ... NOT bankruptcy exclusive, in the same fashion as the Trust Markers ...
The Bankruptcy can finalize without effecting the Plan of Confirmations original intent' ...
Hope that helped'
AZ
.. Well? Regarding the Sequence of Events ..
After a thorough and objective study of the sequence of events and the correlated filings and documents to support each and everyone of these forward moving events, posted, to this and another message board for all to review. What many believe to be the factual truth has been presented in a proper and respectful fashion .... with, supporting links to the information, etc
Personally, I began with questions regarding Plan 6 ~ what it entailed / who was set to gain / and then moved forward inch by inch after "Plan 6" was denied, and in my view ~ this was going to have to settle or else' the whole time' ...
... Again, and in my opinion, ... I see the past events, or what brought us to this particular point in time, as very relevant, due to the fact that all of the same groups are still involved within our current newco' ~ and' ... all of those same groups that told us equity was worthless, are still here' and would luv to have each and everyone of equitys shares in WMIH ...
Now, of course, we' (retail holders) can not predict the future, however, we' (retail holders) are in a position to, at a minimum, understand the past and be careful as we move forward on a daily basis, watching the now ... newco shares, ... be manipulated to such extremes'
... In my opinion, at this point, it is up to an individual to review the presentations and make up their own minds ~ regarding, the powers that we deal with both presently and during the past events, dating back to roughly 2008' and forward ...
I guess' ... obviously, I have searched due to my own questions and curiosities and due to my own cash' investments, ... pre seizure / during the BK / and then after the transition. Ultimately, I have convinced myself that by following ... true equity and its representation, ... that I have made the best possible decisions regarding my own investments within the information made available ...
So, in closing ... I agree that it is useless to banter on an internet message board at this time ... the information has been presented' ... I have obviously convinced myself and I am very hard to impress ~ especially when it comes to money' ...
My DD begins and ends with the filings and disclosures ... I enjoy reading these boards, because I enjoy reading anothers opinion on any issue, ... however, ... I won't spend 10 cents unless, I have then convinced myself with additional solid information ...
Anyway, ... again, the information and supporting documents have all been presented' ... There are no more ' ... "it is what it is" ... I will leave you all to your own individual conclusions' ...
My' very best to all retail investors, that have become involved ...
Thanks for allowing the long post, ... I'll check in ~ from time to time ...
AZ
... BK, That's Just NOT Correct ...
... The documents do not support your stated interpretations, ... However, I will repeat your own words' ... as below'
Good Luck to Everyone'
AZ
... I saw your particular questions earlier ...
... honestly, I didn't see your questions as relevant, to my view and conclusions of the forward moving, issues at hand' ...
1st; ... Personally, I don't see a need to contact the Liquidating Trust, ... Now would be too soon anyway', if contacting them becomes necessary at all into the future ...
2nd; ... Again, same answer ... "R's" ... actions' moving forward will be procedural ... business as usual' ... irrelevant of WaMu' ~ or, generically' ... irrelevant of whether or not the estate / any estate' ... actually has a liquidating trust... "R" will do what it is supposed to do within its own dictated procedures' and in my opinion ? without any prompting' ...
~ If "R" does need prompting ? or a subtle reminder ? ... then the claims mechanisms are well noted and in place within the Plan, the Confirmation Order, and the GSA ... ~
AZ
... Many Are Asking The Same Question ...
... After catching up on the postings this morning, I believe an attempt at an appropriate answer is justified; ...
As this relates to the newco' WMIH; the questions seem to be directed toward ...
"if the Trust Markers" are already locked down then why does there need to be a discussion ?" ...
I see that question as extremely relevant to WMIH and current events' ...
Our debtors representation' throughout the bankruptcy proceedings' ... spent countless hours and court room appearances and representations, attempting to prove to an unwilling audience, that the shareholders equity, assigned to WMI the parent, (class 19 & class 22) were of zero value ...
... Our debtors representative' ... within' his continuous attempts to diminish equities value to a zero level' ...were misleading at best' regarding equity's valuations ... I believe, that has become quite obvious at this present day'
So, in my opinion ... shining' a bright light on the trust transitional events, is directly related to the current manipulated trading of our WMIH stock, prior to what the plan and the future is to hold, once an announcement for the future is made ... I am hoping all have been in a position to hold on to the best of their ability'
WE' ...(equity shareholders) had value then ? and WE' ... (equity shareholders) have a future value currently' ...
For the record' ... the filings I posted were NOT snippets' ... the filings were time dated, complete, signed' appropriately, and labeled accordingly'
ADDED; I strongly believe an understanding of ... how we got here ... is important to be in a position to understand our future possibilities' ...
AZ
... Here are the Filings in Order ...
... these are the filings regarding the stock abandonment as they progressed through the case ... the only one that matters is the final filing ... #9901
... The final filing #9901 ... dated 3/16/2012 gives the correct answer to everyone's question / 1st paragraph ~ "provided however;" ... etc ~ ... reading the literal text for ones self should be the path followed' ... seems like memories' can be in error'
AZ
Filing # 9901 ............ Dated 3/16/2012
http://www.kccllc.net/wamu/document/0812229120316000000000016
Filing # 8629 ............ Dated 9/19/2011
http://www.kccllc.net/wamu/document/0812229110919000000000001
Filing # 8426 ............ Dated 8/10/2011
http://www.kccllc.net/wamu/document/0812229110810000000000023
Filing # 8135 ............ Dated 7/11/2011
http://www.kccllc.net/wamu/document/0812229110711000000000013
Filing # 5885 ............ Dated 11/12/2010
http://www.kccllc.net/wamu/document/0812229101112000000000029
... I Posted the Signed ~ PA&A Agreement ...
A few days ago, I posted the, signed by all parties, a copy of the original PA&A agreement between the FDIC and JPMorgan ...
Point 13.12 within the agreement' .. stipulates that on the sixth anniversary of the seizure of the bank (WMB)~ the agreement between these two ... The FDIC & JPMorgan .. "terminates" ... again, the posted document is signed by all parties'
Here is the link to the document again, for anyone that missed this'
https://www.fdic.gov/about/freedom/Washington_Mutual_P_and_A.pdf
(it is what it is')
Oh and P.S ... 3.1 is also interesting ... "servicing rights ?" ...
AZ
... BK, We Agree on Many Issues ...
1st; .. Thank you for your response' .. I believe we agree on the basic outline of the issues at hand, ... etc;
However, I also believe, you and I begin to separate with two major issues ...
One, is that I am convinced through numerous documents filed and readings (please excuse me, however, the research is extensive and mostly presented on a different MB) ... is that in an effort to maintain the public continuity' (which would have been procedurally correct) JPMorgan was given the servicing rights only to the WMI Loan File and also for the same reasoning, in a position to purchase the Visa File' ... the take over of the branches, etc etc ... that all makes sense' (again, right or wrong not coming into the conversation')
Two, is that I firmly believe, now, that the financial crisis within the US has dissipated a bit' ... is that "R" will do the right thing and distribute back to the estate' ...
I am sure you and I could have a lively conversation in person'
AZ
... Correct' ~ Nothing Has Changed ...
... The difference is the literal terminology utilized and referenced, ... The seizure of a solvent bank is illegal as everyone knows ... and WMB was at the time, Sept 2008' .. solvent' ..
However' ~ there is more to consider'
IF' one wants to dig very very deep into the documents, this "so called seizure" .. was what is referenced legally as a ... "Taking ~ for the betterment of the country" ... (judging the right or wrong of this is not my place, however "a taking" in extreme times of distress within the country, this is allowed)
... Let me just get back to the basics ... JPMorgan only received the servicing rights to WMI's Loan File ... The 1934 Act will mandate that the FDIC-R will finalize in proper fashion with the estate' ...
As the PA&A agreement terminates, as I have just posted the link to the signed document ... I believe things begin to happen beyond the sixth anniversary coming up here in a few days on the 25th.
AZ
. Is There Still Confusion Regarding The PA&A's Termination ? .
... It appears not everyone has actually read and reviewed the actual PA&A document when it comes to the sixth year anniversary' coming up here in a few days' ... Sept 2014'
I'm reading people have no knowledge of anything other than the mention of the indemnity claims needing to be finalized by JPM with a date due by Sept 2014 ... Well, the FDIC site does state that, however there is much, much more involved ...
LG is correct; ... this is a subject of importance ... Please find enclosed a "signed and complete copy" of the PA&A agreement'
https://www.fdic.gov/about/freedom/Washington_Mutual_P_and_A.pdf
For those that are interested in the facts of the matter, please scroll to ... 13.12 ~ TERM OF AGREEMENT and read this for yourselves ...
JPM's need to have their indemnity claims filed no later than Sept 2014 is one thing, however, the literall Termination of the PA&A is another' ... apples and oranges'
AZ
... Blue' Could You Remend Me ...
It has been awhile, and I would appreciate a reminder ... What exactly was the "UIE" group that you were a member of, and why exactly, would this group attempt to have documents that had been requested to be sealed by equitys representation, .. the S&G Firm, .. Why would this group attempt to have these particular documents "unsealed" ?
AZ
.. Lots of Mistakes' or Confusion ? ..
... No One is Hiding Anything ...
A Solid and Complete Study & Understanding of the WMI Bankruptcy, (the parent) .. (now settled within Plan 7) ... being totally exclusive' from the FDIC-R's procedural responsibilities regarding ALL' seized financial institutions ... In this case WMB (the bank) is necessary.
The WMI BK is just about complete' ... "R" is just about to begin' ...
Also, please review the last qtrly report submitted by the Trust (Docket # 11854 .. Filed 7/30/2014)
So Far, ... I do not see anywhere within' the most recent report, referenced above, stipulating to the ownership or specific earmark of any 100m is stipulated to be directed to the piers'
AZ
... Piers' have a different advantage ...
The way I currently see things, ... After a thorough study of the FDIC-R (s) procedural responsibilities to the WMI estate, and as I have previously stated many times before, .. I believe the bankruptcy and its issues will finalize quite soon' ... again leaving the last creditor class (piers) impaired ...
Okay, now having said that, and regarding my recent studys of the FDIC-R (s) procedural obligations to the estate ... That would allow the BK court to save face' and still allow the piers possibilities' ...
The FDIC "R" in all instances, places itself right above any general unsecured issues when finalizing a debtors estate' ... In our case that is Tranche 5 or Rule 510 (b) issues ...
"R" will take into consideration, any creditor classes that have been left incomplete, FIRST' ... So, if the BK finalizes leaving the last creditor class impaired (piers) which is how I see this moving forward, ... the Piers will have an opportunity to file within "general unsecured" against the finals of the FDIC' and within the Tranche 5 finalizations ... After studying this over the last 10 weeks or so, these FDIC procedures will provide a pretty good chance for the piers as a creditor class of being completed to their dictated recovery amount by "R" ...
(I DO NOT see the bankruptcy court or the current status of the Liquidating Trust to be in a position to get that done')
This is how I percieve the procedures to work ...
Once a person can separate the WMI Bankruptcy Issues ... which was settled with the 4b + 3B in cash' from the FDIC's Procedural responsibilities regarding their seizure of WMB (the bank) ... things begin to make sense'
I Hope that I made sense' to you all'
AZ
... LG is Correct Regarding "Marta" ...
... It was the Bankruptcy Court that gave Marta' the possibility of submitting a potential re-file of their claim, in the event that money via the bankruptcy court or trust distributions became available ... However, now, as the days click forward toward the anniversary ... AND in my opinion, I believe the BK will need to finalize leaving the last creditor class impaired ... (Piers) in an effort to save face and not set any future precedence rulings ... So, basically .... No money will be left over ...
... I believe Marta would have been better off doing two things ... staying out of the other court' and following Tranquilities lead ...
But' ... none of my business ... I doubt Marta is any concern at this point in time, all things considered'
AZ
... Who, negotiated the GSA'? ...
Everyone remembers it was JPMorgan, the FDIC and the snh's ... right?
The fact that the FDIC Receivership was not released within' the GSA is very, very, important to these discussions, regarding the ownership of WMI (the parents) assets ....
Since those earlier moments in time, ... during, 2010-2011 .... they all' .. knew about our recent findings, regarding the FDIC's procedural events regarding "R", .. the FDIC Receiver' ...
In my opinion, this is why they, (the hedge funds that negotiated the GSA directly with JPM and the FDIC) .... explicitly, went out of their way to NOT release the FDIC Receivership within' the GSA .... just in case "R" forgot what it was supposed to do, when the appropriate time came' ....
... Check out this mention within the GSA .... (page 234 of the PDF)
“Released Claims”
"... provided, however, that “Released Claims” does not include...... (2) any and all claims held by
entities against WMB, the Receivership and the FDIC Receiver solely with respect to the
Receivership, ....."
http://www.kccllc.net/wamu/document/0812229111212000000000003
Looks like the snh's trusted JPM and the FDIC ..... but' they put this in the GSA, ..... ya know' ... "just in case" someone needed to be reminded of the original deal' ..... I mean, six years is a long time' .... right' ?
AZ
... Blue, ... Very Well Displayed ...
However, this would still be a totally separate issue from the FDIC's procedural responsibility, Not only to WaMu, but to every one of the 144 financial seizures back to 2002 ...
One has to continue to separate three distinct issues, in my opinion ..
1st; any pre seizure events ... pre 9/25/2008 .. (no filings against any potential wrong doing, with only 24 days left to accomodate the six year rule)
2nd; The settled and approved Plan 7, maintaining a placeholder for equity within' the settled estate ~ future tense' Both Trust Markers for those that released, and the now, newco' tradable shares' ..
3rd; THE FDIC's responsibilities to WMI's estate (the parent), .. separated from WMB, only WMB, the bank' was able to be seized ...
AZ
... BK, ... Another incorrect statement ? ...
I never posted regarding the off balance sheet, 2.7 billion retained interest ....
... Just a quick response to you all ...
I can not banter with any poster, simply because he either doesn't read the relevant documents, refuses to except them, or doesn't understand them ... In my opinion, it just seems like a waist of everyones time
Also, I can not have a meaningful discussion with someone, anyone, that is not up to date on the material' being reviewed .... the first link I provided within the first of the three posts yesterday, was a pre-seizure 10-Q, which described WMI (the "parent") ~ (The "company"), and its operations .... the "Off Balance Sheet Operations" was an important' part of the filings disclosure'...
These documents and filings are NOT open for an individuals interpretation, ... they are literal' SEC filings ...
Simply, ... JPMorgan DID NOT gain ownership of all of WMI's assets' ... JPMorgan was assigned as the servicing agent for WaMu's Loan File by the FDIC procedurally' ....
The Parent owned (WMI's) Pass-Through Certs would have continued to function and held by "R" by the FDIC' ....
Also, with all due respect to all of the readers, ... I do take all of this very seriously, and will not just answer any question presented. A question presented has to revolve around the literal subject matter, and can not be one persons improper interpretation of a filing
AZ
... Interesting request, ...
I posted my findings ... Within three separate posts, ....
If I were to entertain any of the other posters statements, or questions, would give his views an acknowledgement of validity. I posted the factual information and can not be swayed.
I believe the "mark" has been missed by the intertwined view on this and other mb's, .... focusing only on the Bankruptcy issues and not looking beyond ...
If you are interested in a message board banter between two professionals, ... I am not here for your entertainment' ..... I responded to a request by a friend, ... Nothing more'
And yeah, being a hard case biker' ? Yeah, I'm that too'
AZ
... Thank You, Take Care & Best Wishes, EOM ...
.... Simply, Incorrect on Your Part' ....
... I will not argue with you or anyone else regarding these serious matters, especially on an internet message board. ... simply put, your presentations have been, and are flawed on numerous levels' ... I am sure you are quite skilled as an accountant, however, regarding legal and procedural matters? ... well, lets just say, that's my ... pot o' stew' ...
... What you decide to post, ~ Mr BK, is none of my concern ... I am here for a financial reward ... period ... and my research began at the denial of Plan 6's attempt at approval ... (actually on the night before .. #8179 "The Standing Motion") ... and has moved forward on a research dual track with what the snh's actually wanted' ... Obviously, as posted .. the FDIC procedures being separate from the Bankruptcy ...
... My information is supported factually by the numerous relevant documents ... (posted)
... The people involved here' on this forum ... are in a position to make their own conclusions regarding the factual information presented ... again, .. (posted)
... I do not have to post here' ... I was requested to do so' ...
... nuff said'
... BBob ...
Glad to see you here' ... Ya know, I was wondering who would pick up on those numbers ... Yes Sir, it's all disclosed in the operational link I provided'
Take Care ..
AZ
... FDIC Procedures & Bankruptcy are SEPARATE ...
... Regarding ALL, Corporate Bankruptcy's .... generally all bankruptcys end in some type of ... "settlement'" ... settlements are not determined by the court' .. only approved by the court, after a settlement has been achieved ... The details of the settlement would NOT be part of the Court's Records
(these settlements, usually only involve creditor classes damaged' .. making concessions since normally, a BK filing is necessary when ... liabilities exceed assets' ... etc)
So, the only interaction the Court would have, would be to
1st; help and direct all involved to reach a settlement' (in our case, the court ordered mediation)
and'
2nd; approve of the settlement achieved, within the guidelines of the law' ("The Goulding Document & The Plans Confirmation")
Remember' ... within our bankruptcy, our settlement allowed for all of the creditor classes to be paid with "Cash"
The sealed doc that was relevant, was filed on the eve of the Plan 6 approval hearing beginning, ... July 2011 .... filing # 8179 "The Standing Motion"
and then "Nate" put the nail in the coffin in front of the media for all the world to see'
Once the Court ordered the ... "mediated result" ... equity's inclusion in the outcome, became ... well, doesn't mattter now ~ Plan 7 WAS approved & ... Here We Are
Remember, though ~ generally, we are still in the same situation regarding the ... "lack of knowledge" ... I understand the procedures and also fully understand what the picture looked like in Sept of 2008, ... right or wrong not being considered ... however, at this point I figure we just wait it out and see' ...
The Pass Throughs pay monthly back to their recipient' ... (on the 20th of each month) ... mortgage holders pay on the first? ... and so on ... on 9/25/2008? ... WMI's cash receipts were in it's bank, the seized, WMB ... (we all saw what happened with the fight over the cash') ... the next Pass Through date would have been Oct 20th, 2008 and so on ... In Oct of 2008? ... the income received by all recipients within the income chain' (remember, pass throughs can be sold multiple times to multiple recipients) .. would have been minimal due to what was happening in the country ... simply put? ... things were a mess'
the "servicers" had their hands quite full ... Now? I believe things have leveled off and sometime during 2010, WMI (the parent) owned pass-throughs, would have begun to produce a positive return back to the estate, as they had before and were originally intended as income producing vehicles ...
NOW' of course, WMI the parents assets' .. under the control of "R" ... I get the transitional events, however, let me be clear ~ I have no idea of the amounts of return that have been coiffured by "R" on a monthly return basis since those days. ...
honestly, I don't want to start any ... "big thing" ... everyone is already way to sensitive regarding their Trust Markers, ... (everyone did not release') .. however the FDIC site does say that ... finalization is generally between 3 & 6 years, however it could take longer' .... its the ... "could take longer part" ... is why I am settling in for additional time' ....
So, do the trust markers hold future value? .... Yes In my opinion they do'
Are the discoveries of the separate procedural issues between what "R" is responsible for and the Bankruptcy court relevant? .... Yes, again In my opinion they are
Is this what the snh's knew procedurally to be correct when they attempted to jetison equity with Plan 6? .... Yes
The Key' was for equity to be included within the estate ... Done' within the settlement ...
Again, Plan 7 DID include equity' .... its all good'
AZ
OKAY; NOW, stepping away from the Due Diligence and factual issues ... The following is .. In My Opinion;
Do I believe APR was removed at settlement, more, in an effort to eliminate the class 19' caps of P = $1,000.00 & K = $25.00
Yes
Do I believe the returns to "R" regarding these income producing vehicles, after a six year acumulation to be quite large?
Yes
Do I believe we are speaking of the possibility of multiples of "PAR"
Yes
Do I believe we are waiting for the possibility of additional JPM indemnity claims to be received? (Sept 2014)
Yes
... WMI, (the parent) had substancial assets ...
including at the time of seizure, some, .. 24.375 billion dollars worth of Certificates still waiting to be sold (product on the shelf) when the September seizure occured ... Placed under the procedural guidance and protection of the FDIC - R' ...
(please' see my previous post, the link is provided)
WMI, (the parent) had been issuing Mortgage Pass-Through Certificates, as income generating vehicles, for many years, I only went back as far as 2002, and saw more than enough to satisfy my own curiosity ...
.... JPM did not get everything given' to it at seizure Sept 2008 .... due to the fact that it was simply, not the FDIC's to give' ....
.... During the court ordered mediation, the (snh's) gave up on their potential gamble' .... Had the "Litigation Morass" .... moved forward (which isn't what anyone wanted at the time) .... equity had requested of the court, ... "an equitable subordination" ... HOWEVER' ... the Court stated that they, (snh's) were gambling with the possibility of "equitable disallowance" .... if they lost? ... they were out' ... clean & simple
... Kind of a huge difference' ...
So, the Court wanted everyone to either figure out a way to settle up? (mediation) or for everyone to .. "take your best shot'" ....
In my opinion .... it made more sense for the snh's to share the cake' with equity via the ordered mediation than to .... gamble on the future result? ... and or drag this dog out for many years to come' .... (when ever you go to battle in the court system .... irrelevant of whether someone is right or wrong .... there is always a chance that you loose') ....
I don't believe the snh's wanted to take the chance of .... being disallowed' ...
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WMI (the parent) stipulates to its procedures ... (posted)
The FDIC explains, .. Its' procedures, within its own website, regarding all seized financial institutions ... (posted)
The examiners report, Footnote 39; states the Loan Portfolio was not able to be accessed ... (posted)
WMI, also stipulates to its Off-Balance Sheet Procedures' ... (posted)
Proof that JPMorgan was NOT given ownership' to WMI's Loan Portfolio, interest income Pass-Through Certs ... (posted)
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Initially, we were all distracted by the Bankruptcy for a while' .... Had the case moved into "litigation?" and had Susman been successful at proving insider trading? .... there's not a court in the land that would have allowed the snh's to continue to participate' .... ("equitable disallowance")
.... It was just too much of a gamble, the financial stakes too high', for them (snh's) to continue to fight and NOT settle with equity' ....
Now? ... everyone gets a FDIC procedural return .... us? ... them? .... its all good'
AZ
(I separated the information into two posts, and surely hope this all made sense' ... )
... Procedurally, JPM Did Not Gain Total Ownership ...
... JPMorgan DID NOT' gain ownership of all of WMI's (the parent) assets at the FDIC seizure ... Primarily the WMI Loan Portfolio .. JPMorgan DID' gain the servicing rights to WMI's Loan Portfolio ... This IS substancially different ...
The following is from WMI's own SEC Filed report;
WMI (the parent) Operating Segments
"The Company has four operating segments for the purpose of management reporting: the Retail Banking Group, the Card Services Group, the Commercial Group and the Home Loans Group. The Company's operating segments are defined by the products and services they offer. The Retail Banking Group, the Card Services Group and the Home Loans Group are consumer-oriented while the Commercial Group serves commercial customers. In addition, the category of Corporate Support/Treasury and Other includes the community lending and investment operations; the Treasury function, which manages the Company's interest rate risk, liquidity position and capital; the Corporate Support function, which provides facilities, legal, accounting and finance, human resources and technology"
Off-Balance Sheet Activities
"The Company transforms loans into securities through a process known as securitization. When the Company securitizes loans, the loans are usually sold to a qualifying special-purpose entity ("QSPE"), typically a trust. The QSPE, in turn, issues securities, commonly referred to as asset-backed securities, which are secured by future cash flows on the sold loans. The QSPE sells the securities to investors, which entitle the investors to receive specified cash flows during the term of the security. The QSPE uses the proceeds from the sale of these securities to pay the Company for the loans sold to the QSPE. These QSPEs are not consolidated within the financial statements since they satisfy the criteria established by Statement No. 140, Accounting for Transfers and Servicing of Financial Assets and Extinguishments of Liabilities . In general, these criteria require the QSPE to be legally isolated from the transferor (the Company), be limited to permitted activities, and have defined limits on the types of assets it can hold and the permitted sales, exchanges or distributions of its assets."
When the Company sells or securitizes loans that it originated, it generally retains the right to service the loans and may retain senior, subordinated, residual, and other interests, all of which are considered retained interests in the sold or securitized assets. Retained interests in mortgage loan securitizations, excluding the rights to service such loans, were $1.23 billion at June 30, 2008, of which $1.13 billion are of investment-grade quality. Retained interests in credit card securitizations were $1.56 billion at June 30, 2008, of which $421 million are of investment-grade quality. Additional information concerning the pretax gains, cash flows, servicing fees, principal and interest received on and valuation of retained interests and loan repurchases, in each case, arising from the Company's securitization activities is included in Note 7 to the Consolidated Financial Statements – "Securitizations" in the Company's 2007 Annual Report on Form 10-K/A. Additional information concerning the revenue and expenses from the sales and servicing of home mortgage loans, including the effects of derivative risk management instruments is included in Note 8 to the Consolidated Financial Statements – "Mortgage Banking Activities" in the Company's 2007 Annual Report on Form 10-K/A. "
http://www.otcmarkets.com/edgar/GetFilingHtml?FilingID=6093324
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... I was recently asked a question regarding the potential piers returns, basically if funding had become unlimited' and then also asked to post my response over here ...
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... The following was my answer' ...
Difficult question' .... the piers were a hybrid' security .... partially creditor class / part equity ... which given the proper opportunity, had the capability of exceeding their face return ... due to the equity assignments within their prospectus' ~ they had the capability of ... "the sky was the limit" ....
This is why the snh's and WGM tried to shut down the bankruptcy and settlement at the last creditor class, excluding equity .... so they could have all of the cake' ....
The 16's needed to be capped by the Court so that the mediated settlement (Plan 7) could be realized' ....
Obviously now, as shown within' attachment "H" .... reversing the Tranche Payout Matrix, putting Tranche 5, below the now capped piers, and finalizing with Tranche 6 Distributions, class 19 & 22 ....
In the same fashion as within the final settlement, now, with the exclusion of APR and the simultaneous payouts to class 19 and class 22 will ultimately receive ... and in theory, ... "the sky IS' the limit"
ADDED: The important issue is that the payout structure changed from the submitted Plan 6, to the now historically approved Plan 7
AZ
... A question Please' ...
Did, United Western issue and package mortgages as a residual income facility ? ...
I have been studying Mortgage Pass-Through Certificates regarding two other FDIC seizures and the FDIC procedures regarding the procedural handling of these assets separate from a "BK"
I have found a tremendous amount of information regarding the TWO other financial entities, one FDIC "R" seized and one not, however ... BOTH financial instutions were forced' into Bankruptcy ....
I was looking for something pertaining to United Western and haven't come across any Trusts' listed .... any information would be appreciated'
TIA
AZ
... I'm Reconsidering, FDIC, BK, Tranche Matrix, & Piers ...
After a thorough study of FDIC procedures, regarding the attention given to the estate of all seized financial entities, irrelevant of the WaMu situation, I am beginning to come to a few conclusions that I believe begin to make sense.
Separating a few of the existing issues;
The WMI Bankruptcy (The Parent) filed, as a direct result of the FDIC's seizure of the sub (WMB)
(The Bankruptcy is now "basically settled" , within a few details' .... and will finalize within the guidelines of attachment H' ... Basically, the Tranche Payout Matrix .... Tranches 1 through 6 .... )
Currently, ... funding for the Tranche Payout Matrix is being provided for, by the Liquidation Trust and its pre dictated responsibilities (we should see a quarterly report, ending 6/30/2014 here in a few days)
Currently, all of our creditor classes have been addressed and paid by the Liquidation Trust with literall "cash" that has been available, .... with the exception of ONE' .... Tranche 4 and the Piers .... The Piers, located within Tranche 4 have NOT received their capped amount of return as dictated by the .... "settlement" ....
So, not to get confusing and hopefully I am not ..... HOWEVER ..... WE' currently still have ONE creditor class that is "impaired" .... present tense'
Now, having said that .... and separate from the Bankruptcy .... The FDIC has Procedural Obligations to each and every estate, that it (FDIC) becomes involved in, due to the necessity of the seizure of a financial institution. ..... As stated within the FDIC site, it has an obligation to the estate (all estates) upon final accounting to make every effort to maximize an estates value and return funding to the estate. Their first responsibility is always to any creditor classes that have been financially damaged and then subsequent involved parties within the damaged financial entity.
Now, .... This part, IMO, is quite important' .... The FDIC places itself within a Tranche Payout Matrix of an estate, right above any "General Unsecured Claims" within an estate, that remain outstanding ..... or in our case ... Tranche 5 ....
So, In my opinion ....
The bankruptcy of the parent (WMI) will finalize leaving the last creditor class impaired ....
The FDIC, will finalize its obligations to the estate within their predetermined guidelines and existing procedures, utilized within all seized entities.
The FDIC will address any remaining creditor class issues and complete their determinative recovery
(In our case .... the FDIC ... WILL BE, ... "MANDATED" to complete any payments still due the piers, Tranche 4, regarding their predetermined and settled amounts due .... )
Then, Tranche 5 issues will be finalized and subsequently, we move into Tranche 6 payout responsibilities
Remember, I maintain completely and without hesitation, that JPMorgan, did not receive ownership of numerous assets maintained by WMI from the FDIC .... So I firmly believe, the amounts of funding that will ultimately be returned to the estate on behalf of the FDIC are and will be significant. .....
So, a couple of quick adds'
The Liquidation Trust .... In my opinion, .... will aid the FDIC in the final distribution issues ....
The Litigation Trust .... basically, is quickly becoming irrelevant .... (the six year filing rule and all of that)
Equities' involvement within the mediated and now settled PayOut Matrix' , ..ended up being critical, to the future financial recovery of all equity Trust Marker recipients ... as we will move forward through the last creditor class, ... into Tranche 5 issues, and then ultimately to Tranche 6 financial returns to Preferreds and Commons simultaneously (75% / 25% with APR removed)
The FDIC owes ... and will return ... funding to the estate on our behalf
AZ