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On my phone so I can’t give u another piece of cheese. However, eveybody knows the calculation now as you pointed out. Now do it again, but change the SAGA OS from 4m to 49m and see how that calculation turns out. Or, just go back to my post and read slowly this time, and you won’t have to wasted time redoing the calculation.
Sure Rockie. But as I stated before, they’re sitting on 100’s of millions of ENZC SHARES, so they’ll make generational wealth regardless. The same cannot be said about smaller commons…
Dogone, I completely understand that, but it is my understanding that the make whole calculation happens prior to adding the 45m new shares being added to SAGA OS. However if I’m wrong about that, then disregard prior post.
SA - This is exactly why I was asking the question earlier in the week: "Does everyone believe that our shares will be worth $10 each after the 45M are added?"
Unless I'm reading it wrong, my understanding is that SAGA has to be trading at $10 prior to the 45m being added? If this is the case, it would drop the SAGA pps down to 0.81 after the 45M are added, but then we'd have to add the value of BGEN/VIRO to the MC. Based on ENZC MC of only $136M (includes both VIRO/BGEN), that push SAGA up to about $3.59 pps. So this is what the calculation would look:
100K ENZC shares = $4,500
900 SAGA Shares (after 45M added) = $3,231
Point is that I'm just confused as to how they're going to immediately add $450 to SAGA, when ENZC is only at $136M including BGEN/VIRO?. The only way I see that happening is if they release/announce something that's actually tangible/major prior to the deal. Without doing that, I just don't see them jumping more than $300M in value just because they're under a different company.
No drama BT, I just find it fascinating how BGEN/VIRO will immediately add $450M or more in MC to SAGA, yet our MC sits in the $130M's, and just continues getting driven further into the ground. But of course there's nothing to see here. None of this 2.5+ year beatdown is intentional/coordinated, and of course it's not predictable that a 10:30 drop will happen, followed by a 2:30 drop this afternoon.
Anyway, don't worry. I won't continue to beat a dead horse today. Been developing a game over the past month for app / play stores, and need to go buy a mac today (finally giving into Apple, who does everything in their power to force you to buy a mac), so I can wrap up the iOS version....
Have a great weekend!
Good Morning ENZC! Looking like it's gonna be an ugly day today. 9 MM's stacked under 05, and of course OTCN/PUMA still control. I originally didn't think we'd see it until next week, but early signs this morning lead me to believe they'll drop that artificial 05 ceiling down to .045 today, and likely in the next 30 minutes at the usual 10:30 takedown. If not then, I imagine they'll do it at the usual 2:30 takedown.
Amazing how all of this works. $450M on the table for 2 subs (BGEN/VIRO), and SAGA is expected to increase to, and hold, a MC of $490M or more once that deal is completed, yet ENZC's total MC while they still have both of them is under $140M.
This coming from you rockie is pretty funny, but that’s ok. What we post here has zero impact on ENZC. Is is and has been 100% controlled for 2.5+ years now. Nothing we say can change that. If they want it down, which obviously they do, it goes down. Nothing we can say or do to make it any different…
That'd be nice Dyno, but I personally am not expecting anything. Each day we're driven lower and the artificial ceiling drops lower. If there was anything coming anytime soon, we'd see a major increase in volume and our pps would actually move up. If the market thought highly of the SAGA deal, we'd see more volume, and pps would move up. However, we're just not seeing anything different than what we've seen for 2.5+ years nonstop. PUMA/OTCN just keep dropping as quickly as they can. They allow the first few trades of every day to be green, but that's it. Then the push down is back. It doesn't and hasn't changed.
Words don't even exist to accurately depict how badly I'd love to hear something BIG, but I just can't see it happening pre-SAGA. Lets hope I'm wrong.
And this tells us everything. The other day we had something like 17M in volume, almost all buys, and we ended up +1-2% for the day. Currently 12M in volume mostly all sells, and we're down > 6%. Gotta love the way that works.
Regardless of what anyone else says and/or who disagrees with me, I'm convinced that PUMA has been tasked with holding this under 05, and possibly even lower. We'll see. However, I'm sure that there is no way in hell that they are going to allow this to remain over a 05 pps prior to and/or at the time of SAGA deal closing. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that by mid next week, possibly by end of this week, that artificial 05 ceiling is dropped to .045 and stacked. There just isn't anyhwere near enough interest in ENZC to combat the control & dumping of those newly unrestricted shares.
I seriously doubt if Regeneron was us that they'd announce/disclose it before the SAGA deal is done. I'd imagine they'll announce it under SAGA, BGEN, or VIRO, as they'll need that volume/interest. I say this because they're not just going to add 45M shares to SAGA OS and call it quits. They'll need shares for future partners, institutions, etc.., and when they dilute them into the OS, they'll need volume/buying to offset.... News like Regeneron would accomplish that for them.
I personally don't believe we will hear or see anything else related to ENZC before SAGA closes. I believe that we'll continue to see PUMA/OTCN in complete control, and continue driving this into the ground little by little over the next 6+ months. Hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see why they would PR any big news to ENZC, when it's value is about to be sold to SAGA.
They do that because if they were to just drop it like that, we drop way into Oversold territory and therefore see a spike. They can't allow that, so they stretch it out as long as they can. That's been part of the pattern. Usually 2-3 months between the teaser spikes, whcih are then erased in a matter of 1-2 days following the mini-spike high. Wash+Rinse+Repeat. It's the pattern that I've been referring to as Groundhog Day for years now. See below showing our last spike. Notice how the gains are immediately erased, RSI drops just above oversold, then they ride the RSI perfectly above oversold somehow while nonstop selling & non-stop push down continue.
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Not sure, but it certainly appears that they're gonna continue dragging out this push down and maintain the RSI above OS. The RSI is sitting at 40. When it was sitting at 40 at the end of may, we closed at .0595, now we're a 1.5 cents lower, with the same RSI; and after months of non-stop dumping, so any hopes of seeing a technical spike from being oversold are out of reach... They really do know how to work the charts.
Well at this point, I'm beginning to wonder how low they're going to drive this in the meantime. Again, the lower that ENZC pps becomes, it makes the exchange for SAGA shares look better, although in reality it's just an illusion.
I seriously cannot understand how BGEN/VIRO are expected to immediately add $450M in value to SAGA the second the deal closes (maintain $10pps with 45M new shares added), when they currently can't account for $150M in value for ENZC? Unless they release something BIG prior to that, it doesn't add up/make sense unless it's intentional.
And of course another shocking day today. Further push down, and the slope continues.
No Valuator, it's the same example. I am expecting ENZC to drop significantly the second we see divs (immediately following date of record). So what you were saying we'd gain if ENZC was trading at .15 at the time of div, I expect to drop after our div's our locked in.
Just never know falon. Hopefully it doesn't go beyond the 3.9B, but nothing surprises me with ENZC anymore. Maybe worrisome was a bad choice of words, and instead should've said it's something I'll keep an eye on...
That said, hopefully it was just nothing more than an example, because that would increase the number of SAGA shares from 900 per 100K ENZC to more, as the % of ownership would be higher using the current OS.
No. They just gave us an example. However, in the example they also gave ENZC a 5B OS, which is a bit worrisome, but hopefully it was just for the sake of easier math. We shall see....
I understand what you're saying Valuator, but it depends on what happens with ENZC. If ENZC were to retain that .15pps post SAGA deal, then yes. it would be a gain, but with no assets/operations, do we really believe it would hold? I think it's much more likely that ENZC would drop substantially post deal.
Honestyl DRUHMI I'm praying that you're correct. However, I still think many are confused on the whole "we will own 90%." It's that part that comes after that 90% statement that brings the question. ENZC will own 90% of SAGA until the div's are paid, once their paid ENZC will have no assets and no operations. Yes, they can still do things afterwards, but I really don't believe that's the plan. I think this was a way for them to clean up share structure and leave the lawsuits behind.
That said, as I posted yesterday, how is it that SAGA will gain $450M in market cap (retain $10pps) after the 45M shares are added, when ENZC with BGEN/VIRO can't break $150M MC? Do BGEN/VIRO immediately increase in value the second they're sold to SAGA? If everything goes the way some that are excited about this are saying, thats great. However, there are still so many unanswered questions that as you stated, we just don't know. Like I mentioned earlier, I believe we are and have been intentionally & collaboratively pushed/held down, for this deal. If we were actually trading at the value everyone is expecting BGEN/VIRO to immediately bring SAGA once purchased, it would put us around 0.15 pps. That 900 SAGA shares for 100K ENZC shares wouldn't look so good then. However, the lower ENZC is at the time of div, the better it looks.
In regards to any law suits, I believe it depends on whether or not they knew they were making this SAGA deal & keeping ENZC on pinks, at the same time they were telling us that the #audit & #uplist of ENZC was a major priority. I'm not saying they did know, I'm saying "if" they knew.
I disagree about the RS. The only way that I would not see it as an RS would be if they actually followed through on what they told us they were doing with ENZC. #Audit #Uplist This seems very unlikely, given that our crown jewels (Clone 3 & AI) will no longer be owned by ENZC, and will be owned by SAGA.
Anyway, I hope/pray that you're right. I would love to see this work out the way that we were all led to believe it would work out for us if we held ENZC (generational wealth, yachts, etc...), but I find it much more unlikely that happens when we're reduced to 0.9% of our original qty of shares; and as you mentioned, they're not just gonna add 45M shares, they'll need more shares for institutions, large holders, etc..., which makes it much harder to reach those $200, $300, etc... per share price to bring that kind of wealth to us. But we'll see what happens. Just because I'm not super excited about this deal doesn't mean that I'm not hoping I'm wrong, and that it works out for all of us. I Am.
rockie, nobody knows for sure. I'm beginning to believe that we've been intentionally pushed down for the SAGA deal. Let me explain.
In the example they used, we would get 900 SAGA shares for every 100K ENZC shares we own. If SAGA can somehow retain a $10 pps after the 45M shares are added, it would break down as follows:
100k ENZC Shares Currently = $4,800
900 SAGA Shares @$10 = $9,000
We would see a gain of $4200 for 100K ENZC shares we own. However, what would it look like if ENZC was showing a more accurate valuation? There's a $450M deal on the table, which supposedly make SAGA worth $490M or more once done, so why doesn't ENZC's MC reflect that $450M before the deal? If it did, ENZC would be around $0.15 pps and the breakdown would look like this:
100K ENZC Shares @ 0.15 = $15,000
900 SAGA Shares @ $10 = $9,000
Now we'd see a loss of $6K for every 100K ENZC shares we own. Deal doesn't look anywhere near as good, right? Anyway, I am genuinely beginning to believe that this why we've been pushed/held down, and more importantly why it has gone completely unaddressed by Charles & Co. Others can disagree, but I've been watching this for too long and am 100% convinced that we've been under coordinated control for a very long time.
Ocean that's true about the execs holding shares and wanting to get the most value from them as well, but the difference is that they will make generational/life changing wealth either way. They're sitting on 100's of millions of ENZC shares, so their potential to make hundreds of millions is still there. Our potential for that with 0.9% of the qty of ENZC share we hold, is unlikely at best. Can we still make money? Absolutely 100%, but our odds of that generational wealth we've been holding for becomes pretty far out of reach.
Agreed that it will depend on ratio. Also, I think it's all going to come down to whether or not ENZC/BGEN/VIRO produce and/or disclose something big & tangible, prior to the div date. If they don't, I don't see how they increase their value by $300M just by being acquired by SAGA. ENZC current MC with both of them is still under $150M, but when they div out 45M SAGA shares, those shares will be trading at $10, giving them a $450M MC + the $40M MC they currently have? Something with BGEN/VIRO has to come to fruition before the div for those number to hold true.
That may be true, but if we're getting 900 shares for every 100K shares that we have, I still see it as a reverse split. However, because they're SAGA shares and not ENZC shares, they're not calling it one. That is a main reason companies do an RS is to either get to naz or maintain their naz listing if their pps stars dropping.
I pray that you're right Mistafixit. I think the frustration (at least mine) comes from leading us all to believe that ENZC would would explode, with the shares we currently hold/share structure, go SEC Reporting, here about the NDA's with ENZC, and go to Naz; and from Chandras tweets the past 2.5+ years, not only was that exactly what was supposed to be happening, it was supposed to have happened already. Now it's changed to getting SAGA shares 6-9 months from now (which I still view as a reverse split), and having to hold for another 12 to go short term tax. So another 18-21 months of hurry up and wait...
The other thing I'm having a problem understanding, is seeing how everyone believes SAGA will be worth so much when they acquire BGEN/VIRO? ENZC can't even get beyond a lousy $150M MC, but somehow once BGEN/VIRO are acquired by SAGA, SAGA is going to retain a $10pps and increase from a $40M MC to a $490M MC? I hope so, but unless they announce some kind of big breakthrough, cure, partnership, or results prior to the acquisition, then I'm not seeing it. However, there's nothing we can do but hurry up and wait, so I guess we'll see. Here's to hoping for the best!
Could be anything. I genuinely have no idea. However, the pattern that we've been glued to for 2.5+ years just does not happen organically. We didn't fall down here by organic trading. We were pushed illegally by VIRT+OTCN/X, and once down here all of the dumping began (OTCN, STXG, INTL, PAUL, etc...) So I really have no idea, but for 2.5+ years any type of good news, PR etc.... drove us lower. That isn't normal.
Could be, but I genuinely believe that they want the pps where it's at for some reason. The kind of control that we've been hammered with for 2.5+ years does not go unaddressed, the way it has here. So many different OTC CEO's have either taken steps to stop it from happening to their ticker and/or at least addressed it, but not here. I honestly believe that they know who's behind it and why.
I don't believe the extensions from the Arabian acquisition would carry over to ENZC. ENZC was a completely new deal/venture for them, but I guess it's possible. Just another question I guess...
I think they might be confused (or maybe I am). The way I understood it is that we're not getting the dividends until after the 6 month make-whole provision, but the date of record I believe would follow the signing of the deal (not closing 6+ months after, but the signing, which could be at any day). I could be wrong here, but this was my interpretation...
Yup. Also, one of the the things that really bothers me the most is this:
We just passed the 6th extension with SAGA, which means that this deal was in the works easily as far back as December/January. Why was Chandra tweeting out #Audit & #Uplist, as though ENZC was going to do both? In other words, if June was the 6th 1-month extension, they had to have known back then that they were planning on emptying ENZC, so why push those tags to get us excited and believe that was going to happen?
Well, I haven't been paying too much attention today, but checking back now and I will say this. Regardless of what any of us think or say on here, it seems the market is not very excited about this. If they were, we wouldn't still be stuck in this ridiculous pattern controlled by OTCN & PUMA, glued to the 04s. Same thing every day. First few trades of the day they allow green, then back to the slope down the remainder of the day. Wash+Rinse+Repeat.
I would think that if the market thought highly of this, we'd see some serious volume of people trying to get shares before the div date, but that's just not happening, as we continue to sit in the 04s.
Thx Dyno, but I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying. If SAGA drops, it wouldn't be beneficial to us. If they can hold the $10 or more pps after the 45M shares are added, and they div out the full 45M shares to us based on ENZC ownership (ENZC OS remains at 3,010,804,133), then it would be beneficial to us. We would gain $100K for every 1m shares we own (based on today's ENZC pps). Calculations shown below again.
However, since the make whole calculation happens prior to getting the shares, if it drops as soon as we get the shares (45M added), than it wouldn't be beneficial.
1M ENZC Shares = 0.03321% (This is based on ENZC current OS, not the 5B used in their example)
45,000,000 x 0.003321 = 14,946 SAGA Shares
14,946 Saga Shares @ $10 = $149,460
1M ENZC Shares = $49,000
Gain of $100K+
This was my conclusion as well... And as long OTCN, INTL, PUMA, & STXG continue to hold us under 05 with unlimited shares, it's gonna be an uphill battle. Not to mention that if somehow we get close to .10 again, VIRT will rejoin the party to drive it back down.
Anyway, I originally saw yesterday's filing as an enormous slap in the face to commons, but then took some deep breaths last night and started analyzing it in more detail, which is when all of that post came to mind. However, if SAGA somehow does hold the $10pps after the 45m shares are added, and ENZC OS doesn't increases to 5B as used in filing example, it wouldn't as bad as I originally thought. The calculations would then break out as follows:
1M ENZC Shares = 0.03321% (This is based on ENZC current OS, not the 5B used in their example)
45,000,000 x 0.003321 = 14,946 SAGA Shares
14,946 Saga Shares @ $10 = $149,460
1M ENZC Shares = $49,000
Gain of $100K+
That said, I still don't like it as much as what we were all led to believe was going to happen with ENZC (SEC Reporting, Uplist, Appreciate to true value, go to naz, etc...), but it wouldn't be as bad as I originally thought. However, it really depends on whether or not SAGA retains a $10pps after the 45M shares are added, and whether or not ENZC's OS stays the same. Why did they 5B in the example? Also, we still have no idea why they added those 900M shares, but if they start hitting us while we're down here, they'll eventually push us back into the 03's, 02' or lower... Hopefully that's the not the case and our OS stays the same, while SAGA retains a $10pps
Normally that's how it should work rockie, but they're not going to allow this over .05 for some reason. I don't know if it has to do with the SAGA deal and/or something else, but after 2.5+ years of this, it's obvious somebody wants this down here, and Charles & Co have never cared about it/addressed it.
As I said yesterday, once the little teaser was over, they'd drop back under 05 and stack it, which is exactly what they've done. If we get good news/test results, maybe we'll see .052 for a portion of a day, but as we've seen, they'll erase it all the following day. PUMA, INTL, OTCN, & STXG control this and unless that stops, the 2.5+ year Groundhog Day continues. You don't have to take my word for it, just pull up the chart, then pull up OTCM with all the news links/dates, and match up the dates we heard something good on the chart. So easy to see....
foxi, I've got a couple a questions that you may know the answer to and/or for those who interpreted the filing different from me, and are seeing it as though we're gaining from this.
1. SAGA right now has roughly 4.7M OS, and a market cap of about $48M. Yesterday's example showed them taking the $450M, and using it split up 45M new SAGA shares at $10 value. Does everyone think that SAGA will remain at $10 or higher when they add 45M new shares, or will that pps drop down to somewhere between 0.97 - 3.99? (I'll explain below where the .97-3.99 are coming from)
- Right now ENZC MC is roughly $149M and SAGA is roughly $47,766,244. SAGA is purchasing ENZC for $450M by adding 45M shares to their OS and giving to ENZC. So, if SAGA adds 45M shares to their OS, and does this with a market cap of $47,766,244, it drops their pps down to roughly $0.98. However, since they're acquiring BGEN/VIRO, which basically hold all of ENZC value, what will that add to their value/MC? For ENZC, it's only $149M, so if we add that $149M to SAGA's pre-purchase market cap of $47,766,244, it would give them a post-purchase MC of $196,766,244.
SAGA pre-purchase OS = 4,346,337
SAGA post-purchase OS = 49,346,337 (4,346,337 + 45M new shares div'd to ENZC Shareholders)
$196,766,244 ÷ 49,346,337 = $3.98pps
For example, I'll use the example everyone was using yesterday, which included a 5B OS for ENZC. If somebody owns 1M shares of ENZC, they would receive 9,000 shares of SAGA valued at $10. If this were true, then they would see the gain below:
1M ENZC shares currently = $49K
9K SAGA Shares at $10 = $90K
Gain of $41K
However, what if that SAGA drops to $3.98 after the 45M new shares are added?
1M ENZC shares currently = $49K
9K SAGA Shares at $3.98 = $35,820
Loss of (-$13K)
My point here is that I saw a lot of calculations yesterday suggesting that we were gaining so much because everyone was using a SAGA pps of $10, but the question is, will it remain at $10 or higher once they purchase BGEN/VIRO & add the 45M new shares? I believe that ENZC (BGEN & VIRO) would need to be valued at/have a pre-purchase MC of an additional $296,697,126 to keep SAGA pps at $10 post purchase. The make-whole calculation happens before they pay the dividend to us, but will the 45M shares be added to their OS prior to that, so SAGA has an accurate MC before the dividend? Anyway, what I'm getting at here is that whether or not those shares are actually valued at $10 or higher when we receive them, will depend on ENZC's MC at the time of transaction. If we only have a $149M MC at the time of the transaction, where does the extra $296M come from that SAGA's MC will need to maintain a $10pps after adding 45M new shares?
2. If ENZC takes the full $450M to create 45M new SAGA shares to div out to ENZC shareholders, where is the money coming from to fund trials, which is what they originally told us this deal was for?
Ok. SA is correct. They used an OS of 5B in that example, so I think the calculation I used of 14,946 for every 1M ENZC would apply. That is unless they screw us further and actually increase our OS to 5B prior to the deal, which at this point would not shock me.
I would be happy with SAGA deal if ENZC retained the value we were led to believe they were going to bring to market under ENZC. However, I completely disagree wtih you, as I am not happy with a reverse split polished as something else. Also, it seems the market is leaning more towards my line of thinking, or we'd actually see ENZC pps move up for once; and I don't mean to 05, 06, I mean Beyond the ridiculous and intentional level it's at now. If this was such a good deal for ENZC shareholders, the market would be racing to get shares, but thats just not happening.
Yeah. I see that now. Thanks... Wow. That's even worse than what I was figuring, so we end up with 9,000 shares for every 1Mm shares of ENZC we own. Not big deal that we keep the 1M ENZC when they're selling all of their value.
I genuinely believe that if we can show that they were working towards this kind of deal at the same time they were telling all of us that they were working to get ENZC sec reporting and uplist, as well as at the same time they were tweeting #Audit, #Uplist, ENZC Rocket Ships, etc..., then we could definitely bring a class action.