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Thank God they didn't mention fertilizer ;)
Thanks RD, appreciate you're reflection and what you put into this board.
A quick one left: is $1 a technical limit somehow or just that such a low level reduces finance options and/or credibility?
RD, I also think the banks might be causus if substancial parts go to downpayments instead of construction, which at least might give some security.
In one of the CCs, I also remember Dan elaborating around limitations from lenders in general.
And maybe the banks, like me, looks at owner structure. Never got convinced on that. So strange that such a large number of the partners are HK companies. I understood the adress sharing, but not HK roots.
I also feel played with the AGM notice, surreal to leave that bait hanging without the cash available for dividens.
My eperience is not to bother too much about media. Over years, my company has been in the media and many unfair articles. Regards to financing, its a question or remark at worst from banks followed up by a quick reply from our side, and then business as usual. Its about trust. Worse when media attacs incompetent customers or consumers. Then you need to wake up.
Calling it the Megafarm is as asking for trouble. Its disruptive. And then you get what you deserve. I would ignore this round and deliver results instead. And by the way, I dont think its a strategic attack. Not at all.
I have a fact for you about Dan. When listening to an older CC when he presented himself, he told us he had been working as a lobbyist. And before that, some real estate stuff.
Hardly competent to be CFO in a company with $800 mill balance. With $ 1,8 mill in cash. Have to pay or people with prawns, beef or flowers soon. If we manage to grow any, lol.
Has that happened before, KS? When?
They can't afford to screw up again.
There was also some subs who looked better with a big parent company backing them up.
Funny - China Green agriculture are on their website talking about good market for organic fertilizer. Yet another fertilizer supplier.
Maybe they can sell some of our $20 mill inventory, lol.
I am kind of tired of this company, but I would just like the truth: is it the deal of the century or should I just accept my losses and move on. I hate it not being clear to me.
From their web page:
Our principle operations are conducted through our PRC subsidiaries which produce and distribute humic acid liquid compound fertilizer, blended fertilizer, organic compound fertilizer and mixed organic-inorganic compound fertilizer throughout 22 provinces, 4 autonomous regions and 3 municipal cities in China
More specifically, the “green” fertilizer market is also experiencing significant growth due to a number of factors such as the deteriorating quality of land from the use of harsh chemicals, limited per capita arable land, China’s growing population, and global warming, which shortens the growth period of some plants and increases insect populations.
But this is not our problem if this person has chosen to shut his offshore company down for some reason.
Thanks TS. Should we expect a decline soon in collateral#, as the loans are being repaid, the shares returned and cancelled? Or should we expect this more like a quarterly event?
I never found info in the 10K about default, so this means that alle loans are currently being honored as original agreed on with the lenders.
Actually, is this strange after all?. One of the external owners (The Business Advocate, Inc) is based in Belize. It's 4,5% share of TRW worth $15,4 mill is belonging to an INACTIVE company...
Link to the Belize company reg: insert-text-here
The SIAF Belize companies (CA, CS, CH) are found and ACTIVE.
Outstanding shares on otcmarkets.com seems to not have been updated since 07.Nov.17. Should we not expect this to be updated more or less daily? (https://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/SIAF/profile)
Thanks, TS. I have now run through the other companies, and not sure if this gives us anything material. If I should grasp at straws, I would have pointed out that most of them were established in 2014 and 2017, and the Belize company which is supposed to be inactive.
Ample Rise: est 10.12.14
Fortune Legend: est 02.08.14
Good Sea: est 27.02.14
Green & Natural: est 11.10.10
Lucky Shine: est 01.08.14
Yongfeng Agricultural: est 19.04.17
The Business Advocate, inc: This Belize company is, according to Belize comp.search, INACTIVE
Fine Happy: est 25.05.17
Thanks for your bother, RD.
Let's look at the ID number you posted and linked. When I try to check this by the Chinees ID system, the number seems invalid.
Pls check Wikipedia and the "Identity Card Number" section at around the middle of the article.
I think he means, the alternative is that there are no $340M assets
Imagine how it would be if the shorts decide to attack the company with hit-pieces etc. The only reason why we don't have them is because the company is "dead" at 5% of book already, and there is nothing to gain. Wrong assessment by Solomon btw, IMO
In Q4-16 CC (around 1:02 into the last slide), Dan answers a question about dillution. He says the market "is confused" about debt->equity financing/dillution vs collateral financing (read: we are stupid).
He says they left this financing 3 years ago. And then: "..the need to use shares for collateral is going to be nominal, almost non existent and we're getting very close to that point every single day"
That was 9th April this year. So far this year we have 4,1 new collateral shares issued.
In addition, we have 425.103 shares to "employees and directors". Shouldn't we see SEC filings where the increased share holdings of directors are disclosed?
TS,
The root cause is the lack of trust in the company, and this causes people (including me) to start looking at details we never would look at in any other company.
I try to find evidence around the partners in TRW. It may be obvious that they are for real, and if we can actually be convinced - it will increase trust in the company (because we have Chinees investors on "our" team, and they should know all the tricks in the book).
Yesterday I thought I had discovered a red light, to be of interest for all shareholders. I understood that SIAF had this adress/an office in HK, but now I understand you say it belongs to an external service provider.
It has become a sport to find none issues with anything surrounding SIAF and make them an issue
Maybe I misread your post #124450, aswering Nef:
So if they need funds they have no other recourse than to sell stock given to them as compensation
They need to step up soon and seek owner representation.
Are we really expecting a $100-150 loan with no stand-alone management in TRW?! And owners using collective adress as SIAF secretary? I find this all a bit uneasining.
Empty,
all the execs are paid in stock. So if they need funds they have no other recourse than to sell stock
TS,
Why the hell does 7 of these have the EXACT same adress?
I have raised the question about the other owners several times, because if they are not for real then this spin off... Yes, part om my ongoing concern.
Is it possible to look at i. e the directors behind them?
Thanks to both of you. Then I understand how this part is done.
The internal sales on cattle back and forth, same for fertilizer and pellets - does it aggregate revenues or is it eliminated? Very much internal sales in the structure.
Red, what I have yet to understand about SJAP is the size of its operations. From the satelite pics of facilities, I can not understand where all the cattle is. Was it 30.000 head? Also, look at top photo of distribution center in Shanghai. The shop looks like a rental booth with other companies in the neighbour booths. http://www.sinoagrofood.com/content/shanghai-distribution-center
Remember tons per m3 a year here. High density, high growth species will outperform other species even if profit per kilo is lower.
Also, I believe they must carefully adress market absorbation as a factor.
And finally find customers who actually pay within a month or two.
Thanks TS
I believe that you get around 1.500m3 a day from size of three containers, and the total demand gets crazy . So yes, this is a mega mega project indeed!
For maybe all stage but at least final grow out faze, risk is less and maybe use river water direct. But mecanical filter and UV seems to be the best due to the huge water purification need.
Condidering RAS with up to 95-96% recykle, both rev.os and heating is fine IMO. Just the small 4% to be added. UV with prefiltration is another option here.
Never LEAN to add these after construction of course. They need to figure this out before spending more money.
Reverse osmosis filters will probably clean the water. Italian diesel heaters and water pumps can be used to heat water or electric heaters. Hauling, vacuum pump to dry grader by weight or laser 3D, could be cheap, movable and efficient if they can single the prawns on conveyer and without damaging claws.
The big issue is that they started building and capitalising Megafarm too early it seems. I believe drains and piping would not be optimal now. Design is best done AFTER science is in place
I thought it was APRAS they counted on, to get ODRAS production converted. My mistake RD.
At least we can celebrate our CEOs intelligence. He got his bonus converted from fixed number of shares to fixed $ sum.
A move he would loose on if PPS increased.
But on the serious side, I would like ANY info on his previous workplace. If that story is about investors led into the dark, we should not care to watch this one unfold.
For anyone who still after today's news believes that CA are close to several big contracts, I would like to take a burden of your shoulders:
- don't worry about Christmas shopping ahead. St.Clause will have that arranged for you this year.
Swede,
This article is a cathastrope.
Like RD just said earlier today: its about CA and TRW now.
Well:
CA is based on selling know-how about aqua production...
TRW is based on superior, low-cost/high yield production...
No wonder the "close" CA contracts, turned into a new wording meaning something like "exploring opportunities outside China".
ZEROHEDGE: Congratulations, there was no prawn harvest at the Megafarm.
Which leaves CA and TRW.
If reports for 2007-2012 don't include information about this "debt" to the directors, it should be in the list. I don't know if this cames as a surprice or was expected all the time.
Stuff like this needs to be booked year by year, if not, any CEO can claim to have right to print shares to compensate for previous years.
At least now we all know the CEO has $ 336.000 salary + $ 336.000 in shares (where # of shares are adjusted to reach this value). That's 672.000 in total.
Ok, I'm finished with this perspective now (but anyone, pls feel free to check with Nisse! For sure interesting to know that it's formally approved or not). The auditor SIAF is using, I don't feel convinced about at all I'm afraid.
Currently Im checking CV/track record. Both Salmon and Chen came from Irama Edaran Sdn. Bhd. Do we know anything about this company and their (past) performance?
For me, SIAF is all about the aqua value (might be substancial other value, but I am not competent to consider those parts). Yes, TRW has to be financed and upscaled, but both Tony and Ravidran are impressive people they have successfully attracted.
If/when the loan to TRW happenes, we much carefully look where the money goes. If we do not get dividends because it all "disappears" in the SIAF balance, I'm done with SIAF. Look out for excuses!
Lets now think that SJAP has changed from being an attractive spin-off candidate, into a challenged company. Yes, lets look at the downside risk.
How would this affect profits and balance?
How would this affect receivables from customers being hit by this downturn and where SJAP has considerable outstandings >3 months?
From FY2016 CC (quote below), we heard that the expectations of being favoured by Government turned to the opposite - they have closed down the SJAP abattoir on "environmental" ground. I dont know when/if it will re-open when reading the quote from the CC (why should we first expect it to permanent favour us, but when tables turned it suddenly is temporarily?). At lease we should consider these points.
Firstly, to promote economic development in the region, the Xining Government
is regrouping Xining’s abattoir operations by cancelling various existing abattoir
permits within close proximity to each other, with the aim of centralizing all
slaughterhouse operations at SJAP’s abattoir facility and turning the Huangyuan
district into Xining’s main cattle and meat trade center. This is expected to
significantly benefit SJAP as it will provide it with extra land adjacent to its
existing sites to accommodate and develop two abattoir operations. It will also
provide additional land at another location for SJAP to move its existing
operations to, including the cattle farm, the fertilizer factory and the
concentrated feed manufacturing factory. To this end, SJAP has been closely
coordinating with the Xining Government in recent months.
RD, should we not expect the shares to be listed in 10K for Y2016 (published March 17)? Search: Summary Compensation Table
And we take note that the 3Y CEO employment agreement has been tempered from a fixed amount of shares (30.000 or so?), into a fixed $ amount which is the same as his base salary.
From todays PPS, the new formula, I believe he close to doubled his salary by getting this changed.
Thank you again for your thorough research on my question on bonuses/share printing to employees.
The reason why I raised this, is to study COE ethics and also I am trying to raise evidence towards the claims about this being a scam.
Now, the findings makes us conclude that the shares are a source of income and in theory its possible to run this company without real operation.
It also shows me that despite lack of real profits (not write-ups by D&B valuations, booked inventory increase of products with questionable selling value), that the CEO (who by himself at any time can print whatever amount he wants of shares), does not have the right ethic compass. The 1,2 mill shares they awarded to themselves are worth $ 32.400.000,- in booked equity.
They tell us that the company is absurdly undervalued, due to $27/share of book value. Well, that suddenly doesn't apply if we claim they took $ 32.400.000 of value in their bonus program.
And why did they change it into a fixed $-value for the CEO? Were they expecting the shareprice to fall? Would they do this if they expexted real $27/share valueation? With the consequence to reduce number of bonusshares by 80-90%?
You get my drift.
RD, do you know why employees got/took around 5% of the company in 2016? Could we assume that employee shares have been sold without insider notice? And they got another 0,4 mill shares this year also. A lot of compensation for a company with booked value of $27 a share. $7,1m bonus for 500 employees.
During the year ended December 31, 2016, the Company (i) issued 1,199,068 shares of common stock to employees and directors valued at fair value of $5.98 per share for $7,169,823 for employee compensation
Its strange that if so in China, it only applies to us. Why doesn't our cusomers and suppliers (which are also in China) have to act as a bank?
Who gave SIAF that role? Does i.e Gualian take a similar role? (anyone to check their balance sheets and cash flow pls?)
And lets just imagine this is how it works in China and we somehow got the bank role. Why continue to reduce cash and spend it on building inventory etc? When they promised to reduce cap-ex, they just reduced it to fit the reduction of profits and this resulting in less cash than after Q2. This is a breach of what they promised us.
Our problem is that many people still are uncertain about the actual size of operations and claim that there is only numbers spinning around in a complex structure. Well, when we see that year after year all profits - no matter how large they get - seem to disappear into "banking"-activities and balance sheet increases, then the company is not able to prove that the scam accusations are false.
I feel that the documented assets (as far as picures go), do not show the level of activity and employees and level of operations which we are supposed to have.
Snow, I really hope we are in the right company. But its the managements job to convince us. First bus stop: pay cash dividends every Q.
The CEO works for us, the owners. Lack of trust is his responsibility. We lost around 70% of pps when he in person authorised 50 mill shares. Still, they have not told us the truth.
In stead of blaming shorters, the CEO should have stopped financing half of China and free up 1% of the balance for dividends asap.
Maybe playing king with local politicians and putting himself before the owners, is part of the problem.
Of course we will cheer the loan, the F1 etc. When it comes. But that doesn't erase the track record IMO. While waiting, he should establish the TRW management asap.