Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Larry -- Q4 = $95k,
2005 = $23 Million
T123
Whitewash - I should lose. that doesn't mean that I will lose. Recognized revenue is different than booked revenue.
We'll see!
Happy New Year
T123
Bought more WAVX - fess up Tampa
Thought I'd torture myself a little more. While I continue to be impatient to see Wave's market validated, and mature, I still can't think of any other stock that gives me a better shot at doubling, or even multiplying my investment 10 - 50 fold.
- If management has, in fact, made all of the right moves, and the market has just taken this long to develop ~ so be it.
- If management has made enough right moves, then admittedly, that still will be good enough for this investor, given the technology, and it's potential.
Given all of the developments in 2004, I am beginning to believe that the latter is true. While management certainly hasn't made all of the right moves (who does), there is enough evidence to suggest that they've made enough right moves.
Since 2005-2006 will clearly show whether they can bring it on home, and I can afford to wait that long, it seems senseless to "whine" about it any longer.
Snackman - it's okay if I say I'm whining, but not you.
Happy New Year!
T
blithering Idiot - Did you pay a $200 broker fee for that share too?
Merry Christmas
Regardless of whether we all see eye-to-eye on some of the challenges and the company's performance this past year, I still want to wish everyone a happy holiday season. I have met some of you at past SHMs, and have been reading many of your posts for several years now, and I have learned to recognize and appreciate your passion and convictions.
I hope that this year ends with happiness, and good health for all of you, and that next year brings you all the satisfaction and rewards you seek ~ whatever those are.
My warmest holiday wishes!
Tampa123
Will have to read up on this stock
awk - show me revenue proof that Wave is performing well...
awk - thanks.
awk - but here's a teaser of previous supporting facts anyway.
- $19 million revenue by EOY never happened in 2000 - 2001
- Compaq deal never happened
- Finread deal (80 million members) never happened.
- WaveXpress revenues never helped us, or sustained us through any quarter, as Steven suggested it was going to.
As I stated in the post, it also could have been a Web-designer oversight also.
BerthaB - no one responds on this board to poor management decisions/performance. They prefer to ingore the negatives. That's why I'm not surprised to see that no nobody responded to your post.
I wonder if Wave knows, or if it's an oversight on the part of Web-design?
88Carrera - Way ahead in Wave's case.
From the RB WAVX DD board
Just wanted to inform some of the longer longs that flyerguy got married yesterday, and is now on his honeymoon.
If you have a moment, stop back and offer congratulations. He won't read them right away (probably), but will probably appreciate seeing them when he returns
T123
Bull - Through it all, I like where Wave sits now as opposed to two years ago too.
I just like to maintain balance on the board. I rarely, if ever, side with the bashers on this board. But, at the same time, I don't buy that Wave's in everything and their fate is already a given.
There's a lot of revenues between me and that kind of opinion.
T
Bull - Snack says that every year, and the stock is still worth a buck. There's a difference between optimism, negativism, and realism. Snackman is an optimist. Nothing wrong with that!
I am a realist. Nothing wrong with that either!
Unless you're an optimist.
weby - Let's not forget that there's also no appreciable revenues in that string of facts you're offering up. You know where I stand also, because I've told you so personally, on several occasions. But my view seems to be a bit less dominated by the sentiments of this board.
While it is great that things appear to finally be going Wave's way, and I am happy they appear to be, there are some undeniable facts that seem to never appear from the cult members (excuse me), financial freedom members on this board.
These other facts are always left out of the commentary, and newbies who want to stay long investors need to know these also.
They should know that through it all, some/many of us have stayed long because many longs felt like fools (to ourselves) in 2000 and 2001, by refusing to exercise what now easily seems like a wise investment decision. Many of us got caught up in the hype, instead of the performance ~ or lack of.
That is why I no longer listen, and chime into all things Wave anymore. I don't want to get caught up in what people think will happen anymore. I'm fully invested in Wave, and only need to see, not hear. Those of us who now finally choose to treat this as an investment do not like the fact that many on this board continue to display a very one-sided (not balanced) view of the facts, and expect others to buy into those facts as the only ones that matter.
Her's some other facts:
1. Wave has not made enough revenue to deserve any praise.
2. While many proclaim them as the pioneers of hardware security, they weren't ready for IBM several years ago ~ Atmel was. They missed the first boat, and had to struggle more.
3. Wave management has continued to agree with investors since 2003 that Wave can no longer afford not to make revenues that show a quarter-over-quarter impact ~ yet continuously underwhelm us in this area. Are they just saying what we want to hear, or just underperforming?
4. Wave continues to dilute the shareholder value every year.
5. Contracts (if they do exist), appear to always leave their customers (Intel, Dell, and the invisiible NSM chip) a clear opt-out ability. No minimum orders required. At least that's what the press releases state.
6. Prior round of financing wasn't very good for anyone. Made worse because they knew well in advance that they needed funding, and procrastenated to a point of having to make a bad deal in the end, instead of a reasonably smart deal 6-months prior to running out of money. That's poor management decision-making.
7. WaveXpress has done nothing of any substance since I first heard the concept.
8. SignOnline shows some good promise, but again, not enough money borrowed to really make a big play. You can bet IBM has enough money. I've seen some recent articles that suggest that they want market share too. Wonder who'll win if money's needed?
These are just some of the facts that still make this stock a risky stock to invest in. Wave has always showed good potential, but many on this board have always been too quick to claim victory. As per some, Wave is still in everything, or has to be if an open standard is to be adopted.
My response to that --- No They Don't Have To Be In There! Those with the money will make that decision, not Wave, or anyone on this board. And the statement, "Let's wait and see" is also getting a bit old entering 2005.
So to you Wave longs who just joined ~ I think you've made an investment that you could be very thrilled with. Many of us are still holding out hope that we will be thrilled (again) with our investment too. But, it's by no means the slam dunk that many on this board either want you to believe, or are still trying to convince themselves.
Weby - I suppose it is binary after all. But in the binary formula used to date, it's not been a good investment. Hopefully, it's going to be soon, or everyone's going to run out of runway.
T123
To all - Thanks for the correction on "what's his name again?" from Wave buying 100k shares. I did not have my facts correct (this time), and apologize for the error.
It is always improtant to get one's facts straight, so I will try to do better in the future.
Tampa123
twinkiedefense - Not since I've been around (1997)
If NSM is the IBM player we hope they'll be, then we should see this story change a bit as it relates to using only Intel and AMD products.
Mergers
Lenovo CEO Looks Ahead
Russell Flannery, 12.17.04, 2:55 PM ET
BEIJING - The chief executive of the Chinese computer company that announced plans to buy IBM's PC unit last week for $1.75 billion says he expects the deal will help IBM expand its sales in China. And he predicts the global PC industry will undergo more consolidation in the next few years.
Yang Yuanqing
"Among the top ten PC companies, only a few are healthy and profitable," says Lenovo Group Chief Executive Yang Yuanqing. "This situation won't continue for long. The ones that aren't healthy will be squeezed out." He didn't disagree with a Gartner study in November that predicted three of the top ten firms in the industry would exit the business by 2007. "Whether it's three or five, I'm not sure," he says.
IBM (nyse: IBM - news - people ), which pioneered the PC two decades ago, surprised the industry last week by announcing it would sell the business to Lenovo, the biggest PC supplier in the country's booming economy. If the transaction is completed as expected next year, IBM would end up with a 19% stake in the "new" Lenovo. The combined sales of IBM's PC unit and Lenovo would have ranked No. 3 in the industry last year, at $12 billion.
More on IBM
Tear Sheet
IBM Should Send PCs Packing
IBM's New Storage Play
The pact comes amid a flurry of international acquisitions by Chinese manufacturers. On Dec. 15, TPV Technology, a monitor maker whose key shareholders also include a Chinese government entity, said it would acquire the computer monitor business of Philips Electronics (nyse: PHG - news - people ) for $358 million, turning itself into the PC screen industry's leader.
Lenovo's move is also the latest in step in the consolidation of the once-fragmented PC business. In 2002, titans Hewlett-Packard (nyse: HPQ - news - people ) and Compaq wed to better challenge another industry leader, Dell (nasdaq: DELL - news - people ). By contrast, Lenovo's sales are only about a quarter of IBM's PC unit, and its ambitious announcement last week calls to mind the Chinese expression "A snake swallows an elephant."
Yet IBM and Lenovo are likely to come together more smoothly than HP and Compaq did, Yang says. That's in part because there isn't much overlap in their markets or main products. IBM's PCs tend to be sold to high-end business customers, and Lenovo is strong in mid- and low-range consumer products, particularly in China. "HP and Compaq had a lot of overlap, so the difficulty in integration was much bigger," Yang says.
IBM's hopes to tap into Lenovo's marketing channels to sell its other products, and services in China aren't likely to be dashed. The Chinese company will make available "excellent customer relations in the government sector and with large businesses," Yang says.
In that regard, the CEO sees IBM's desire to work with Lenovo as part of a deep pool of complementary elements in their new relationship. "I need them and they need me," says Yang, who was a key negotiator in the IBM-Lenovo deal and who will become company chairman after the agreement is finalized. Yang believes IBM will continue to bundle traditional PCs as part of its higher-end service business and will work closely with Lenovo as a supplier and partner. Says Yang, "I think our strategic relationship is sustainable."
Yang says one area the two haven't talked about in terms of working together is microprocessors. That will disappoint some electronics industry analysts who have speculated otherwise. Yang says Lenovo currently plans to use only Intel (nasdaq: INTC - news - people ) and Advanced Micro Devices (nyse: AMD - news - people ) products.
Looking ahead at the PC industry, Yang predicts that China will continue to enjoy "double-digit" growth in PC shipments in 2005. That compares with an 11% rise in that market and almost 10% global growth in the third quarter, according to Gartner.
Yang wants to reassure U.S. employees at IBM's PC unit that Lenovo has no plans to cut its workforce, at least for now. "IBM's employees in the states are people that we need right there in the U.S.," he says. "So in the short term, we aren't considering moving those jobs."
RBLTG - So could/should one summize from this PR that Wave's SignOnline may not work in the DB2 database world? Perhaps Wave's SignOnline and Document Management products work only in Oracle, or SQL=Server DB environments.
With all of the work that Wave claims to have done with IBM in the past, I'd find that very hard to believe. But from this PR, that's what seems to be the message coming from the text.
T123
A very good week for Wave.
Nothing more needs to be added.
T123
LG - Many of us did
rachelelise - I like your reply.
We all want the same thing. Some may want it in different timelines. Some may be less patient than others, but in the end, all must be starting to agree that the stars are aligning nicely.
The flip side is that we've all said that before, and are a little scared to climb that mountain again for a false alarm.
I know that some timelines are in-escapable, and that patience is called for. Admittedly, I have little left. Not because I need the money, more becasue, I'm tired of talking to most of the people on this board.
hahahahahaaaaa
I'm hangin in there. I just have a bad attitude about it.
That's all.
kitesurf - no question that your right on the evidence piling up in Wave's favor.
As for the rest - it must be great to be you!
T123
Wavxmaster - I am now an Austin-ite, and the weather here is bit nippy today also
go-kitesurf - It would have been nice to see Envoy put out a follow-on PR, or Wave to have a follow-on, or seperate PR. It's this one-and-done that allows it to be walked back down ~ and of course the lack of guidance around numbers/adoption/revenues.
While it's is still good news, it's hard to bite without any teeth.
T123
Have to agree with the reasons.
As an investor, I will always validate my investment based on revenues and share price, not news.
However, I would be an A-- if I didn't recognize and acknowledge the compelling evidence of impending success that Wave is mounting.
- Still a risky stock.
- Still can be walked back down under a $1
- Still can be another year and a half before we see any value from this announcement ~ like Intel was.
But, it's also very encouraging to see that Wave is making this announcement instead of someone else. It does lend itself to supporting many of Steven's prior statements.
I have no grounds, reason or purpose to argue against this encouraging news, so I won't. However, I hope you'll all forgive me if I join in the celebration later than you. It's been my practive to wait for revenues, and that's what I will do.
Congrats to those who choose to celebrate now. It's not too early for such things. It's just too early for me.
T123
Ramsey2 - You're not missing anything. I'm happy to lose this bet if they report it as revenue in Q4.
T123
Whitewash - They have to report "earned" revenue for the quarter that exceeds $100k. Deferred revenue does not count - agreed?
Whitewash - I'm okay with the lightness of the wager. But I'm not sure I can post here every day. However, when I do post, I'll be happy to include your snippet at the bottome of every post during that quarter.
TROMBONE - And about a million other companies that didn't ever make a profit also.
Place your bets.
Whitewash - What kind of wager did you have in mind?
theguvna88 - that's hilarious! I guess that makes you stressed out too. I hope your family's not affected by it.
regards,
T123
Whatever!
Life is simply too short to waste my life away debating a sub $1 stock.
Since it is now binary, as my friend Weby always says, then nothing more needs to be said, or even read at this point.
What does need to sink in to many on this board, is that so far, at least, Wave has not produced the results that many of us investors are looking for. I for one measure progress by profit and revenue, not by the company one keeps, the barney relationships (I love you, you love me) one touts, or the loyalty displayed on this board.
As a smart investor once said ~ If you're not makin money, you're not pleasin me honey. Or was that a smart pimp? Anyway, talk is cheap, arguing is unnecessary, and loyalty is no longer deserved, it's earned.
Many have stopped posting, simply because it's boring to talk about a company that makes no money, or increases our shareholder value. What's to talk about --- poor performance? that takes all of 5 seconds. Wave has underperformed and IMHO overstated its progress.
I don't want to argue, or debate who's right and who's wrong, becasue it doesn't really matter. What does matter is that we've all invested a portion of our future in a company that's provided less than no return. Just when you all think you've seen the bottom, Wave shows you a new one, and you lose a few more sheckles, and unfortunately, mine too.
In the end, the end of 2004 was supposed to be the final measuring stick. This date is rapidly approaching, and I for one don't expect any surprises between now and New Years Day. When the CC is scheduled, I also don't expect the numbers to be above $100k for the quarter either. What I do expect is another excuse about delays, or an unfortunate event that cuased a delay.
Why do I expect this ~ becasue it's the only trend that Wave has gotten me used to.
Tampa123
howardjoe - I don't believe he would just for a chair job. That would be foolish. But Hey! I didn't throw out that option in the first place.
go-kitesurf - now here I have to disagree. SMCs are usually run between 15% and 22% for larger companies. Some try to make a stand at the percentages you mention, but very few are successful with getting it, except in very large enterprise deals.
go-kitesurf - I have to agree with your assertions 100%. The TCG would not allow Berger to chair, except under the conditions you've already stated. So, I hope Berger's not leaving.
T123
howardjoe - my conjecture - if history has taught me anything, it's that nothing's up with this stock, and nothing will ever be up with this stock until appreciable revenues come forward. Everything else is just noise, and a way to pass the boredom.
All of these posts are speculative. Nothing is critical until it is proven that it is: 1) needed, and 2) being used because it is needed.