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Rj, I going to disagree here....strongly.
They can and will not uplist without already having that financial stability of a major investor.
I'm not saying it won't continue to go up after your scenario, but I am here for the before and Mean "before every stage" of new news...point is without true cash flow to back up the biz (whether major stake holder or cfp stand alone).
Seriously this is what irks me the most....how come they can't get a f'n loan? Is it the biz midel? Is it ego? They scewd everybody they know (thousands of people), or it's just how it went and they learned something new?
Somebody explain why loan issues?
It's like soap opera. Family lends money. Family loses money. Idea /biz works. 3 years to late. Family broke.sell sell sell. Getting tired. Wanna give up on pressure. Get new board. Stress. Wanna sell. Board says your almost there. They want to do right thing. But can't already screwed too many people.
Seriously they chat with everybody...I don't even have Facebook and they got 100s of thousands via social media....they don't have one real contact?
That's my irk!
Jltg, you've made calls, guesses, used your skill set / tools to maximize your rewards.
You made a comment earlier: one thing that's bothered you is why not protect the pps?
Also as you said: that master of the obvious. Now I don't have your tools, but you don't think that's been the major reason I haven't eve jumped ship....I'll admit it wasn't smart to watch my money disappear as I am learning...there is more to it....
But for me the question has always been (who/what:how) shares been distributed? But more importantly.....
How in the f can they Facebook, tweet, be friends with everybody; yet can't get a loan? Seriously why?(that's my deep down issue!)! The rest I'm learning the hard way as I go.
Keith, does the financial structure ever come in to play in your opinion?
Not trying to prod, but you do realize that limitations are placed on the value of every share.....every time another share is issued? If they issue a mill shares at .01 is much different that issuing at .1....it's 10x different.
Unless they are working on a loan behind closed doors in exchange for major equity, thus putting equity holder in our position he will have no reason to protect his investment and continue to loan mp money so the company will grow.....he would simply sell his position and here we are again sub-penny.
I by no means have this figured out, but I'm learning share structure and attempting to protect what I have
....I'm trying to see at what price point can I enter as we go forward....I'm in deep now, but with all the uncertaintities I would pefer I sell 50% and then take it day by day....not that I do anything different now, haven't done anything but buy to date, but we'll see
Good luck man....wish I had the money you do....let alone what your willing to risk.
IMO..."if" this pump gets us over .05....it will hold!
Hey Jw, just to throw a wrench into the tool box.....what if aps and money runners are the 2 consultants?
Too the moon......it fits their profiles....300 m shares plus and additional 84m with the a/s for long term use? It's only 24 months agreements right?
What a share with an underlying warrant? Is it a warrant that has been exercised, but not sold into the market?
Equus, could you advise on how they should/could move forward with the growth (obtain CASH needed) without raising the A/S?
That has been the problem...they are giving out shares at .01 when the PPS was .017? (8ks)
Change in derivative liabilities have been bouncing based on PPS. Pump (paid by MSLP or warrants holders...who knows) in March 29, 2012 created the loss.... opposite for Q2.
COO Buhler did mention in PR that they had greatly reduced the derivative liabilites on balance sheet....hence all the shares to settle??
I assume you have followed some of the post yesterday and today?? The consult agreements for 8.4%? Again how could/should the attempt to raise cash going forward without increasing the A/S (which you said you would be OUT the moment they do so)?
The best deal I've seen them get was $750K at 12%.
EDIT:jltg, I was serious about the first part in regards to distribution....
The rain was a joke...it was supposed to be funny as people call it 4 inches of rain when there are 4 inches between the drops hitting the ground which amount to 1/1000th of an inch, but we still call it 4 inch rain.... it's obviously not the same.
To be clearer: The joke/idea was that saying dumping shares from the A/S is not the same as dumping on the open market....even though it still dilutes the stock same amount.
...I would way rather see them give up 25% or more of the company in exchange for funding at a better rate.
RJ, What I've been trying to get at is how these shares were distributed??
If they are doing as you are insuniating just dumping shares for cash....there would never and I mean EVER be a good entry point! And nobody including our execs would ever make any money.
Heres an anology:
Today it's raining in san diego,ca (believe it or not) and it's raining 4 inches (believe it not). Now if they are doing what your are saying dumping all 4 inches (shares) then they will never cover any ground, but if they do it like the rain(4 inches means 4 inches in between drops in san diego) then they can cover alot more ground.
I was wondering what they have "already" done since the agreement?
Why the assumption of 5b o/s factored in? What dollar# are you guessing the need to obtain to move forward with growth?
From my count that would put them at revs of 150mill or more over the next 12 months?
At what point and how (filing) are they required to show how the shares were delegated? Common stock, warrant, put....whom is security holder????cause that threw me off...no explanation just 700mill added o/s?
I'd like to know if it's warrants or common stock?
Or are you implying your strategy involves a/s at this level in growth investments?
Rj, Jw made same comment. Direction please (site).
Reason I ask question....quotes below: most recent poss am:
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Page1 1st statement
Approximate date of commencement of proposed sale to the public: As soon as practicable after this Registration Statement becomes effective.
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Page 2 bottom
On January 26, 2012, the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission declared effective the registration statement on Form S-1 (the “Registration Statement”) filed by MusclePharm Corporation (the “Company”). The Company is filing this post-effective amendment to the Registration Statement for the purpose of updating its financial and other disclosures.
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Also this poss am has same file number as previous poss am, but here are a few "I think" important issues?
Recent poss am and previous both have same file number as s1 from 1/26.
Recent poss am has 74,400,000 shares previous has 84,400,000? Change is 10 mill "put shares"?
Recent pos am say 2.35b and prévios 1.45b?
Remember most recent poss am and prévios have saem file # as s1 from 1/26.
Most recent effect was for s1 was 9/14 for s1 in 8/30 that has a different file # than those above?
Pps is down 200% since I heard that rumor
Jw, thanks. So no pos am effect.
1. What site can I find the order in which filings should be made?
2. Have you been able to locate where 700 mill went? 8k agreement?
3. The s1a that has the effect is a different file number than the s1a from August? I don't think they are the same?
4. Once and s1 is effective are all s1a and poss am effective without notice?
5. If you have 2 or more s1 in a year-which is more relevant- most present? Both equally as they have different file# (question 3 above)?
6. Why the change of 10 mill put shares? From this pos am vs previous pos am?
Sorry to badger.....this would save me a lot of time if I know where and what I'm looking for....
Thanks
Unless I misunderstood....an effect filing is needed for the change from 1.58 b to 2.35b?
In addition, I don't think 700mil has been dropped in a month?
Mathematically it doesn't make sense to me, but if you have explanation I want to know.
Those shares went to accredited investor? Warrants?
Would you guess a cover because going up? Or going down further? Or take profits like you said ....as a hedge and then start selling short again?
Where is the effect of the poss am? Explanation of shares and or "warrants"? I still can't count the 2.35b o/s with my own eyes?
Why would a short cover? When you can make it go down down down?
I did, good luck man....I'm currently down 15k, but I'm not one to ask about actual trades....new at this.
No matter what anybody says, they all have something to contribute, but it's good to know when to listen to certain perspectives that will help you trade and in life.
I absolutely loved and appreciated jltg comment earlier when he said that we are all impatient over a few hours when we've been completely comfortable watching our money disappear for 5 straight months....it doesnt mean act in it, but evaluate your philosophy - what's good about it and what's not, and why
Personally I'm just doing everything I can to learn the books so that I can make better (less risk/ higher reward) speculative investments/trades....I'm trying to get as many tools as I can, but not to much into pps technicals, because in penny land / start ups the share structure changes so quickly it wouldn't apply to me...
From what I got 1. its a trade from another country made outside our trading hours or a 2. trade during the day that is posted after hours so that traders can't hedge a bet based on somebody exposing their position.....
I'm by no means an experienced trader....I would love if someone I knew personally could explain more thoroughly, but I don't have that somebody.
JLTG, Thoughts on that .0069 eod sell/buy?
Question is?? are you and the buyer loading??
Could be shorts covering....there was a lot of MM movement yesterday....but...
....IMO it is a big buyer who is just waiting till things quiet again....he wants more shares at a better PPS. IMO
Hunter, MSLP has many good things going for it...as you've said before be patient.
This stock has been pushing my patience level, but yesterdays volume and PPS incline made me feel very comfortable about my ability to atleast regain my losses to date.
Obviously now the they buyer has shares and alot of them he can personally manipulate the price....if he wants he could dump faster than VFIN did and push the PPS down quickly to get more shares even cheaper. He could also be anticipating news soon .....or news is 6 months and this was a good entry.
Fact is he entered.....even if was to protect his own investment?
What if no pump ever comes and the buyer holds and we slowly trickle up with some pull backs for profit takes??
Just throwing out a few potentials.... I have no opinion on one vs. the other.
The only thing I am sure of is I can't wait to see the Q and if they are CFP for Q3...the first place I'm going to look is at deferrred rev!
I'll speak for jltg...(I'm pushing my luck....he always replies if I comment "wrongly" on a description of his post....he defInitelt has his opinion and protects it.....jltg don't ignore or this if I'm wrong again.).
IMO. If yOu look into the most recent 8k consult agreements they are made simultaneous with an approval needed from insider share holders (financer). They would need tO get approval from them and they have accepted.
..... I guess registration of shares is unimportant for now?
Warning! That sounds like an investor point of view....consolidation .008 to .01?
I've lost a lot of money with that mentality (atlesst till now).
Care to share more
That wasn't so hard to be honest. Thank you.
So your a trader and have you way....that's fine...you trade on sentiment...that's fine....I just wanted to know if you do any dd and have an awareness of all aspects of this game? Seems like you have 1 and it's flipping and it works for you; good for you.
I know I can't control the board, but I'm strictly using it as a learning tool...I've lost a lot, learned a lot, but the majority of posts are like yours....judging shareholder optimism.
I've been transparent, probably too transparent, about myself and thoughts...Just hoping you had something to contribute
If mslp gets an effect from the sec does it have to be filed or is possible via phone or email directly to company and security holders?
Also is it possible for the sec to say no? Or is it just a formality waiting for the sec effect?
CAn you share any direction on how the pos amm from 8/6 and 1.4 bill after offering changed to 2.35 bill after offering on the most recent pod am 10/5?
Direction/guidance appreciated...
See arblv, something like what renn said...it wasn't real funny, but good enough for a chuckle.
My account says its extremely undervalued as well...thanks renn.
Arblv, what are your buys and sells based on? You make plenty of comments about????
Why is the company overvalued or undervalued in your opinion?
The fact is based on today's o/s and market cap it is extremely undervalued...that doesn't mean that when they increase the a/s it could be overvalued again.
So contribute something...say something funny atlesst, but this chiming in like you are a player or even have a clue is pointless
Edit: is it possible that because the sec hasn't given them an EFFECT that the security holders have decided to buy on the open market to protect their investment?
Could the sec basically say no; you can't dilute another 700 mill, your already in the process of diluting 300....if they want shares "tell them to buy on the open market - there's plenty there!"
Or am I off my rocker again and those shares are already part of o/s? They have to get an effect don't they?
JLTG, I've been forced through my learing process and the fact I am completely new to this 'game" into an investment like mentality...I've done all that I am capable of on my own to learn and understand.
Of course who wouldn't want to be right, but thats NOT my intention...it's to make money.
It was a sincere question? NOT "I told you so"....I wouldn't be in the least bit suprised if this is about new financing or a Q3 prelim leak with Deferred rev in the tens of millions.
I just looking for answers so I understand.
I truely value your input, that's why I post to you so much...NOT so I can say I was right.
I wouldn't go that far just yet....
They could have just gotten financing they need to go forward?
Remember deferred rev I always brought up...well we might see a huge deferred rev in the millions.
Last year Q3 they made a huge jump in sales and then again in Q4, but they never utilyzed this before....so maybe Q3 last year wasn't as big and Q4 was actually huge?
I'm still searching for answers...we don't know when they make their sales agreements....and accounting is constantly changing?
I just told myself I wouldn't jump ship unless something was straight forward enough to point to failure.
At this point this is an investment, when like JLTG says, it should be about makeing money!
So news after the bell is?
filing?
Q3 Prelim?
JLTG, You still think CFP is out of the question?
Seriously, what could prompt such a huge influx in volume....other than security holders protecting their investment?
Equus, I look forward to your analysis...I could use a fresh perspective. I've been trying to learn how to interpet filings while watching this pps go red, red, and more red. I am completely new to understanding share structure, filings, etc...
A few things that have perked my curiosity in the filings (just a few as there are many more): All 2012 dates
8/30 S1A got an Effect filing.
8/6 Pos Amm was for S1 of 1/26 and the only difference was 10 mill "put shares" and the O/S after offering for a total of 84.4 million in the offering was 1.5 bill
10/5 Pos Amm was for S1 of 1/26 ---this filing is modified of the 8/6 Poss Amm and is for 74.4 million in offering (it doesn't contain the 10 mill "put shares" from the 8/6 Pos Amm; and the O/S is 2.3 bill
----Above may or may NOT be useful info or even relevant for that matter....but I can't understand where there O/S is so different as well as why MSLP thinks the SEC would give them an EFFECT to this filing when it is only lacking 10 mill put shares??
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As far as Quarterly goes they have changed accounting practices, but have been filings a more clear report of activities over this year, but they seem to ad new categories??
For example in the most recent Q they posted deferred revenue (for the first time in their history) of 1.6 million. That alone was the difference of them being CFP for Q2.
Hopefully you can decifer better than I...and know what to look for and is relevant than I....
This change in the O/S absolutely suprised me....I was expecting 1.9billion max after all these offerings and change of warrants to common stock.
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and the obvious is that this is looking most likely going to increase the A/S siginificantly; thus more dilution.....unless they needed these funds because they are about to sell so much product they needed to stockpile up...
Other notes in the Q has been the recent lease agreements for massive warehouses....one would assume they would use them??
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Again just a few things on the top of my mind to sift through
11 mill on the ask....nobody here to buy that???
What kinda strategy could that be...leaving 11mill up?
Jw, did you notice the pos am on the 6th I August?
It looks identical less the 10 mill put shares? Is that correct...it has the same file # as well.
What is the difference between the offerings (what exactly would be the significance of having vs not having the put shares?)
Did the sec say you can't do that? Or is this just games?
They never got the effect before....I can't imagine 10 mill put shares makes all the difference? Any true knowledge or theory on this?
Jw, why do you expect a proxy?
In short what is a proxy?
I was expecting an effect.
I'm buying if pps goes down. I'm selling if pps goes up.