Linda is biotch...! LOLz JayKay
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Keep in mind, that tps/ reits already diluted preferreds. I say it stands at 70/30 or settled at 80/20 in favor of prefferds despite dimeq dilution into commons. Imo of course.
Yeah, really feel sorry for the guy who put that$ 100k in dimeq. Imo/eom
Yeah, according to other board, dimeq ruling is out and in favor of WMI. Dimeq lost. Imo
The problem is that it is really $2.5 billion in claims ($3 billion if you want to factor the time SNH wasted bleeding the estate).
The other problem is that you have to factor in TPS/REITS. They are valued at $4 billion.
No only that, going through litigation, will only allocate any disgorged money from SNH to PIERS, DIMEQ and prefferds, ie. TPS/REITS, P and K.
Commons would end up with ZERO because of APR.
See the below quote:
Lets think about this... "I can understand why pre-holders would argue for this, but post holders really have no moral ground at all to stand on...."
You should know that justice protects deep pockets... that is the American way.
As for commons getting a good deal... they did...
Step back and think about it... If EC went forward with litigation, the amount to disgorge, is approx. $2.5 Billion. HUQ is approx. $700 million. Dimeq is $337 million. Prefferds are $7.5 Billion. You have a HIGH burn rate currently diminishing the HUQs. Once HUQs are done, then it is the senior subordinates, and then so on and so on... (less any amount disgorged)
Let say EC litigates and prevails and disgorges the $2.5 Billion from SNH. Guess who gets that $2.5 Billion.... NOT COMMONS!!!! It goes back into the water fall and HEALS the burn rate going to HUQs approx. $700 million (almost 1 Billion) up to the allow claim amount, then subordinates, up to the allowed claim amount. Guess who gets the next $337 Million, DIMEQ (depending on if they are Class 12 or 18). Then it is preffferds, which is $7.5 BILLION, and the balance is still not paid in full.
Guess who gets WMI2? Prefferds gets 100% of WMI2 withOUT sharing with commons, because EC went to litigation and APR applies and strictly enforced.
Have you heard the phrase: "Time is money" (Think burn rate of Estate)
Willingham is a business man. He KNOWS his COMMONS are worth ZERO if he litigates. Susman did the calculation on money, time spent, disgorgement, litigation, recovery, possible outcomes, etc.
I do believe that Willingham could have gotten a better settlement, but ... [I rather not say ... however, a lot of people feel the same way...]
Now I ask you, did commons get a good deal?
It is only under a settlement scenario where commons will see a recovery (on the backs of prefferds) so long as the GSA is intact.
Just wait until TPS files their Objection to the DS/POR.
It is time to take off the "rose colored glasses" and face reality.
Thanks Clawmann. But can't there anymore.
That is a lot of words to just say "Yes". eom
Question:
________________________________________
From: xxxxxxxxxxx@yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 4:35 PM
To: Parker Folse
Subject: Washington Mutual Bankruptcy
Dear Mr. Folse:
A quick review of the proposed settlement(POR 7) on the surface seems less than satisfactory. It seems that equity is giving up a lot in terms of releases in return for very little....especially from JPM and the FDIC. Also, is the equity committee planning on giving up their options to pursue litigation against all parties in an Article III court as recently affirmed by the Stern ruling.
I would also encourage the equity committee to be a little more open with the
prospects for the newly reorganized company. I think more than anything the lack of information is starting to become a problem.
Sincerely
Xxxxxxxxx
Shareholder in WMI Securities
Xxxxxxx, we are working on a document intended to answer many shareholder questions and we plan to release that publicly later this week.
Parker
So now you are a "p on". Welcome aboard. Eom
What will stop dimes from pursuing IT, is that they have to come in court to ask to prosecute IT claims and discovery while the judge confirms the plan, it would render any appeal equitably moot since the plan would have been executed and funds distributed.
Do I think the plan this time will be confirmed, yes I do, however, with some modification, which I am sure the parties will make changes on the spot to pass the por.
Tps wont be able to stop the train unless district rules in their favor, but I don t see them winning, but I want them to.
All creditors money is burning. Time is of the essence. Judge will confirm the plan regardess of objections. She will just make concessions.
Btw, we don't know what she will rule, it could class 12, 18, or 21. Sould just wait for the ruling.
Imo
Sorry, I should have been more clear. There are two (2) different settlement agreements:
Settlement between EC and SNH was the WMI2 from Class 16 to Class 19, 21 and 22.
The Settlement for Class 17A (WMB Senior) was the GSA, but Class 17B (WMB subordinates) was zero recovery.
By the way, i do think that Art is a great attorney and very persuasive.
We should wait and see that the ruling/opinion is on Tuesday. It does not effect me either way the judge rules.
imo
EDIT: Saw you edited your post to include:
So I question if Class 16 can legally give WMI2 to an equity class such that it bypasses one group of lower debt (Class 18), yet doesn't bypass another group--WMB subordinated claims at Class 17, which is being given money under settlement terms. My hunch is that if the judge does rule DIME as Class 18,
The current DS/POR assumes Dimes will be in with commons, in class 21, which may explain the 30% of the newco going to commons. Could well be that the 30% number assumes there will be an expanded number of commons due to the inclusion of the Dimes.
If Dimes are moved to a higher class, that 30% figure may be adjusted down to compensate. Another reason why the judge was given the authority to change the percentages.
Won't happen in my opinion, simply because it would be a gross violation of APR, because lumping DIMEs into Class 18 means they would receive nothing, despite being ahead of equity in priority. (Unless the POR is modified, and DIMEs are given some sort of compensation for being placed in Class 18.) Walrath knows this and her history of upholding APR speaks for itself.
This is the problem I saw in the DS/POR.
The $$ stops at HUQ, so Class 18 should get zero, however, the wording in the DS/POR states that Class 18 gets distribution of the liquidation Trust. So it either one or the other and it is conflicting each other.
Class 19 says the same thing, after sub claims are paid.
So, that has to be clarified by the debtors.
If Dimeq is on Class 21, yes, lumped to together with commons at a to be determined ratio.
Good night, I have to go now. Someone does not want me posting here.
imo
As it stands now, correct. The distribution of $$ stops at HUQ, that is why HUQ is capped at $250 million divided by 23 million shares max recovery.
As it currently stands today.
imo
Well, the proposed DS/POR has Dimeq as Class 21 for now, however, depending on the ruling, it could be Class 12, 18 or 21, assuming Walrath is going to rule in our lifetime.
As a common holder, yes, you would want Dimeq in Class 12 or 18, so it will not dilute commons.
As for an H holder, you would want Dimeq as Class 18 or 21.
Dimeq in Class 18 would make everyone happy, except Dimeq themselves.
imo
Class 18 = Sub calims
Class 21 = Dimeq
Yes, it can also be interpreted as Dimeq is Class 18 or Class 21, since Dimeq in Class 12 would wipe out HUQ, or ...
Someone is confident that HUQ will survive...
imo
Someone used their money to say.... there's hope....100,000 buy on the HQ's above the ask in last few minutes of trading....that sounds very good to me.
sic, haven't you an ounce of justice left?
... because if that were true, then preferrds would own almost the entire WMI2. Prefferds is approx. 7.5 BILLION value. Commons float is probably in the 100's of MILLION value, not even in the billions.
30% is a lot considering commons will end up with a big fat ZERO in ALL SCENARIOS, if it were not for a settlement and a GSA in tact.
Willingham did do a decent job FOR COMMONS (and himself), w/ a big F U to prefferds.
Commons are lucky to have even survived and shouldn't be complaining.
imo
Affirmative. eom
I was asked to pass along a message from Edgar Sargent 3 minutes ago
I had E-mailed Edgar early last week with regards to the settlement, he just responded to say the following. He asked that I relay the message, but I need those with accounts at other boards to disseminate there, if you could. Thank you.
The EC has received a large number of requests for information from shareholders. We are preparing responses to the most common questions in Q&A format, a process which is taking a few days longer than it would otherwise because of the holidays. When we have finalized the document, we will be posting it on the KCC site or some other Internet site. I would very much appreciate it if you could let the shareholder community know that we are working on this and will have it available within the next few days, certainly long before any of them must make final decisions on supporting the plan or granting releases.
Happy New Year,
Edgar Sargent
I was asked to pass along a message from Edgar Sargent 3 minutes ago
I had E-mailed Edgar early last week with regards to the settlement, he just responded to say the following. He asked that I relay the message, but I need those with accounts at other boards to disseminate there, if you could. Thank you.
The EC has received a large number of requests for information from shareholders. We are preparing responses to the most common questions in Q&A format, a process which is taking a few days longer than it would otherwise because of the holidays. When we have finalized the document, we will be posting it on the KCC site or some other Internet site. I would very much appreciate it if you could let the shareholder community know that we are working on this and will have it available within the next few days, certainly long before any of them must make final decisions on supporting the plan or granting releases.
Happy New Year,
Edgar Sargent
I was asked to pass along a message from Edgar Sargent 3 minutes ago
I had E-mailed Edgar early last week with regards to the settlement, he just responded to say the following. He asked that I relay the message, but I need those with accounts at other boards to disseminate there, if you could. Thank you.
The EC has received a large number of requests for information from shareholders. We are preparing responses to the most common questions in Q&A format, a process which is taking a few days longer than it would otherwise because of the holidays. When we have finalized the document, we will be posting it on the KCC site or some other Internet site. I would very much appreciate it if you could let the shareholder community know that we are working on this and will have it available within the next few days, certainly long before any of them must make final decisions on supporting the plan or granting releases.
Happy New Year,
Edgar Sargent
I was asked to pass along a message from Edgar Sargent 3 minutes ago
I had E-mailed Edgar early last week with regards to the settlement, he just responded to say the following. He asked that I relay the message, but I need those with accounts at other boards to disseminate there, if you could. Thank you.
The EC has received a large number of requests for information from shareholders. We are preparing responses to the most common questions in Q&A format, a process which is taking a few days longer than it would otherwise because of the holidays. When we have finalized the document, we will be posting it on the KCC site or some other Internet site. I would very much appreciate it if you could let the shareholder community know that we are working on this and will have it available within the next few days, certainly long before any of them must make final decisions on supporting the plan or granting releases.
Happy New Year,
Edgar Sargent
I was asked to pass along a message from Edgar Sargent 3 minutes ago
I had E-mailed Edgar early last week with regards to the settlement, he just responded to say the following. He asked that I relay the message, but I need those with accounts at other boards to disseminate there, if you could. Thank you.
The EC has received a large number of requests for information from shareholders. We are preparing responses to the most common questions in Q&A format, a process which is taking a few days longer than it would otherwise because of the holidays. When we have finalized the document, we will be posting it on the KCC site or some other Internet site. I would very much appreciate it if you could let the shareholder community know that we are working on this and will have it available within the next few days, certainly long before any of them must make final decisions on supporting the plan or granting releases.
Happy New Year,
Edgar Sargent
TPS did more to help and were more aggrssive than the EC. imo/eom
Happy Holidays to you to. I am outtie! eom
Well, hard to say. I believe that Dimeq is equity, but they have a creditors claim because of a breach of contract. So that claim should be placed in the Class 18, because it really is not debt, but a claim from an equity. That is the way I see it.
As for the PPS rising, I assume you mean commons. I do not think it will rise much (or sustain any gains) if Dimeq is classed as 12 or 18, because the market is factoring above what commons are worth, i.e. 3.5 cents (0.035). Market has not factored in Dimeq dilution.
If Dimeq classed as 21, then commons should have downward pressure.
This also answers rockie's Q.
This an opinion.
No, that is just based on the latest POR.
Dimew could be 12, 18, or 21. We won't know until Walrath rules since Rosen and Art asked for a ruling to be made. When she rules, it is gonna be final.
Everyone on the Dimeq board thinks Class 12 (but they are biased because they own it, but that is understandable), but I think Class 18 is more likely if Walrsth rules, otherwise Class 21, as the POR states.
This just my opinion, we should just wait for the court ruling.
imo
Dimeq was part of the GSA's "fair and reasonable", so Dimeq is now WMI's liability.
TPS is setting this up to take the majority of WMI2 for them (and indirectly benefiting P&K).
imo
TPS & DIMEQ! A huge trade if one is correct on her DIMEQ ruling!
The easiest way to settle this case is to order the debt put back with the equity and we know Walrath is not capable of that due to her orders, so what does Walrath do with DIMEQ? She has been cornered with DIMEQ and TPS, although different but very similar with how it happened. So with Walrath being forced to rule on DIMEQ and something she never planned has to be very unnerving for her especially with TPS’s filing of forcing her to stay the bankruptcy case pending their appeal.
TPS is correct and when Walrath turns them down AGAIN on 1/11/2012, they will file a “Writ of Mandamus” or something similar and depending on what she does with DIMEQ as they may beat TPS to the punch with this type of filing. No way in hell is DIMEQ going to quit, so due to path of least resistance I will predict Walrath will classify DIMEQ as debt, nullifying a potential adversarial filing by DIMEQ and then will have to deal with TPS. I just cannot believe she wants to put the screws to DIMEQ by making them equivalent of commons, but being a Government employee this could be her marching orders.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandamus
Pilgrim's Pride BK, similar allegations as WMI:
"Upon information and belief, the Equity Committee rejected a similar structure in advance of the July confirmation proceedings, in part, because of uncertainty as to whether the Equity Committee?s members and professionals would be assured of receiving the above post- confirmation employment opportunities and benefits."
47. The Bankruptcy Court acknowledged that the Unsecured Creditors’ Committee
“allege[d] (and the UCC Objection support[ed] the allegations through cites to the depositions of
Willingham, Snyder, and Pilgrim) that Brown [Rudnick] and Willingham solicited shareholder
participation in the AHSH [Ad Hoc Shareholders Group] for their own profit in contravention of
laws respecting proxy solicitation and prohibiting barratry.” Memorandum Opinion, p. 6, ECF
No. 1652.
She sure did! http://www.kccllc.net/documents/0812229/0812229111223000000000014.pdf
Foot notes 3, 4 and 5:
3 While certain of the Debtors? professionals have also negotiated post-confirmation employment for themselves under the same budget, it appears the Equity Committee is otherwise free to retain its own professionals post-confirmation.
4 From the Disclosure Statement, it appears the Equity Committee has already appointed its chairperson to one of the board positions. See Disclosure Statement for Seventh Amended Plan, at p. 28. It also appears that certain other representatives of parties formerly opposing confirmation have been granted paid board positions. See id. (principal of Normandy Hill (who is also a former partner at Weil, Gotshal & Manges, LLP, the Debtors? lead bankruptcy counsel) and the primary representative of the WMB Noteholders group purported to have claims in Class 18 of the Plan).
5 Upon information and belief, the Chairman of the Equity Committee (who the TPS Consortium understands has been the driving force behind this result) holds only common equity. See Complaint at ¶ 6, Willingham, et al. v. Washington Mutual, Inc. et
al., Adv. Pro. No. 10-51297. The TPS Consortium is unaware of whether the other members of the Equity Committee hold only common shares or also hold some amount of preferred equity.
Willingham been accused of being "bought" and the shifting of what rightfully belongs to Preferreds shareholders has been redirected for the benefit of commons, which happens to be what the "chairman" solely owns. Preferreds got the shaft.
The TPS Consortium believes any incremental support for this repackaged proposal was obtained, not through meaningful modifications to the Plan or concessions from parties with potentially significant liability to the estates, but through: (a) promises of lucrative post-confirmation employment for representatives and professionals of former Plan opponents; and (b) the diversion of value away from preferred equity and to common equity (which, upon information and belief, is the only security owned by the chairman of the Equity Committee).
December 22, 2011 3:39 PM ET
IMPORTANT INFORMATION ABOUT MARKET HOLIDAYS
IMPORTANT INFORMATION ABOUT MARKET HOLIDAYS
In observance of the Christmas holiday, bond markets will close early at 2 p.m. ET on Friday, December 23, 2011. Additionally, both the stock and bond markets and the Federal Reserve Bank will be closed on Monday, December 26, 2011.
In observance of the New Year's holiday, the bond markets will close early at 2 p.m. ET on Friday, December 30, 2011. In addition, both the stock and bond markets and the Federal Reserve Bank will be closed on Monday, January 2, 2012.
I would say no because if this is the same kind of appeal TPS, and EC are going through, by the time anyone even looks at the appeal briefs, the BK would have already gone through confirmation and distributed all the assets/cash and render the Dimeq appeal equitably moot.
imo of course.
Problem is if Dimeq is creditor, and in Class 12, then it would be no problem for commons unless the creditors come back and say, hey we need to re-negoiate because of Dime in Class 12. All the other creditors will be pizzed off.
If they are in Class 18, they get fudged, which I do not think they deserve, however .... I am sure a lot of commons would like to see Dimeq in Class 18.
Class 21, then commons are pizzed.
So how are they going to settle this without pizzing anyone off. There is not more money...
imo
I agree, never disputed that, however, it has become a problem out in the open between common and dimeq now. Debtor left that clause re: 70/30 pending confirmation/judge approval. imo/eom
Ya, something to effect of Dimeq conversion to be 74% to 87% of commons float of commons 30% share. That was one of the them.
DIMEQ vs. Commons starts.
imo
90/10 split (my opinion), however, we (TPS/P&K/Commons/Judge) may meet in the middle at 80/20, however, we will see how convincing TPS's objection is (assuming they are going to be objecting). I just don't see how P&K/TPS can be more prejudiced while commons got a "great deal" out of this settlement.
imo of course.
Happy Holidays to you to. =) eom
Clarification: When I mentioned Dimeq as Class 18, that is what I believe the Judge would rule, however, since they are in mediation, it will likely stat in Class 21 with a negotiated/agreed prorated conversion to new common.
... however, that is just an opinion.