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Here is an Interesting Read:
https://www.fool.com/investing/2024/01/06/while-i-wont-touch-plug-power-stock-heres-an-emerg/
B_B - So what?
What is the pressure in a gasoline or kerosene tank ?
We don't even need to discuss flammability.
10,000 PSI will kill you without a fire.
WTM - CORRECTION : I have never said "hydrogen as not being safe in any application.".
But I am a counter to posters like you who imply Hydrogen can cure all ills, and is perfectly safe and totally economic.
Any industrial gas at 10,000 PSI is dangerous ... putting it in the back of a passenger vehicle is irresponsible. Tank safety for cars is nascent ... just ask the guy in the Pickup Truck whose vehicle was destroyed by a small, low-pressure tank.
And it isn't fires that are my main concern. If/When someone backs their Pickup Truck into a hydrogen tank at a station, there doesn't need to be a fired to level the city block. Everyone always compares hydrogen to gasoline and diesel and talk about fire safety. But these fuels spill and don't always explode or burn.
At 10,000 PSI, a "spill or failure" could do more damage than a fire.
WTM - Not hypocritical ! I hate PLUG, I like Hydrogen. I like SAFETY !
B_B - So up with the market, but not because of anything directly related to PLUG ?
Not very encouraging.
The DOWNTREND CONTINUES !
Without a Major Positive Catalyst, the Downward Trend will continue.
Most of the PLUG news has been Negative, and every day the Money Pit in Georgia sits idle is a HUGE Negative.
And most of the recent PRs are Nothing Burgers.
Finally, I continue to see indicators that Georgia's Hydrogen won't be as inexpensive as we have been told.
We have been misled by PLUG many times in the past and I believe this is yet another instance of Hype vs Reality.
PLUG can't get a grasp on Georgia because they have never done a hydrogen plant to scale before. They are all neophytes. It would be like any of us trying to build a hydrogen plant. They don't even know what they don't know.
My proof ? They boasted : "Hydrogen is Easy." Only someone who has never worked in Hydrogen would say this !
Some of us have been around industrial gases for years and we KNOW Hydrogen is the most difficult gas to manage, and Liquid Hydrogen is orders of magnitude more complex.
I stated here last year that Georgia wouldn't be fully operational until 2024 the earliest. How is it that I knew this and PLUG didn't? Neophytes !
I don't like or believe the management and I hate the company and its broken business model, but I do support Hydrogen. Just NOT PLUG.
runner - Good Points !
Is California actually enforcing those trucking rules ? It's nice to have those rules on paper, but if no one cares, ICE's will continue to roll.
January 1 , was the BIG Day , but California doesn't seem to be very serious.
Hydrogen is so Easy.
WTM - Banger - I saw two of these trucks unveiled in Brisbane, QLD.
They were HYZN trucks.
I don't think they are allowed on the bridges or tunnels.
Banger - It's pretty sad isn't it?
PLUG having to slow their growth to conserve funds.
I wonder if Andy will account for this in his 2024 Update?
Hydrogen is Easy !
WTM - TESLA had a HUGE ADVANTAGE. The Power Grid , Generation, and most of TESLA's power needs were already built and paid for.
Heck, you might even have electricity in your home !
How's that Hydrogen Grid doing?
It will take DECADES for Hydrogen / FCEV's to touch TESLA's successes.
WTM - Nothing Burger.
Naw - I just let PLUG push the share price DOWN for me.
I can't wait for Andy's 2024 update. MORE BAD NEWS !
WTM - Is there a Direct Financial impact for PLUG ?
How much ?
WTM - Me either. But many here behave like they do.
B_B - Hurry. We need more pumps ...
Maybe it's WTM's turn ?
B_B - Thanks to you PLUG is up in the pre market.
Well done.
Mac - Correct. Because your Propane Tank is only at 100 PSI.
Hydrogen is at 10,000 PSI. Even without a fire Hydrogen can wipe out a neighborhood !
Did you see what was left of that Pickup Truck (below) ? That was just a small, low-pressure tank failure ! No Fire!
Can you imagine if there was a Fire ? A bunch of hydrogen vehicles in a parking garage under a hospital ? A Fire / Hydrogen / 10,000 PSI. How would you like to be the First Responder who has to hold the hose in a Blast Chamber ?
https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=595462505&tbm=vid&sxsrf=AM9HkKnRfq965OzEpTPoRfKZ3SvRH0IvMw:1704319981657&q=Hydrogen+tank+explosion+car&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjB8NvYnsKDAxX9t4QIHZ4xC-0Q1QJ6BAgJEAE&biw=1536&bih=710&dpr=1.25#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:5acdd2fa,vid:aMKvfK2KM34,st:0
Mac - Unless there is a wildfire, you are pretty safe with Propane at 100 PSI. You should look at some of the Propane tank explosion videos from the California wildfires on YouTube.
Can you imagine what a hydrogen tank at 10,000 PSI will do in a wildfire ? .... Kiss your micro-grid neighborhood good bye.
https://thedriven.io/2023/07/21/explosions-were-heard-hydrogen-bus-destroyed-by-fire-while-refuelling/
https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=595462505&tbm=vid&sxsrf=AM9HkKnRfq965OzEpTPoRfKZ3SvRH0IvMw:1704319981657&q=Hydrogen+tank+explosion+car&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjB8NvYnsKDAxX9t4QIHZ4xC-0Q1QJ6BAgJEAE&biw=1536&bih=710&dpr=1.25#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:5acdd2fa,vid:aMKvfK2KM34,st:0
Mac - Have you converted your home or car to hydrogen yet ?
Why not ? You could be the first one on your block with a Hydrogen Bomb in your yard. 10,000 PSI !
And what does your tiny Propane Bomb have ... 100 PSI ? What a wuss.
velcro - That was my read exactly. I respect him for doing what he did.
If he had chosen the nuclear option and announced the scam at the Symposium, he would have hurt too many good people.
So he played nice at the Show, but I could see something was very wrong.
WTM - He calls me .
WTM - He does. But you can also contact him directly through his many links as I do.
WTM - But you Said ...
WeTheMarket
Re: Jack_Bolander post# 54503
Monday, January 01, 2024 1:53:25 PM
Post#
54504 of 54559
JB, he is one of the most informed individuals on hydrogen, and his videos/podcasts are fair and balanced. I don't always agree with him, but respect his opinions. For example, he supports elements of the three pillars in regulating the IRA clean hydrogen production tax credits, while myself, like Andy Marsh, oppose any implementation of the three pillars, but would tolerate a phased in approach, many years from now, to give the nascent hydrogen economy a chance to materialize and flourish.
WTM - Have you asked your other expert for his analysis ?
What does he say ?
WTM - Yes to your second question. It depends on the application.
You require Liquid Hydrogen for large load needs, but Liquid Hydrogen is VERY EXPENSIVE to Make, Store and Transport. Today, it is prohibitively expensive compared to other , cheaper solutions.
But High-Pressure Hydrogen also has its challenges and is costly compared to better solutions.
Where Hydrogen shines is in a narrow band of applications where air-quality and 24/7 use are critical. This is why Walmart doesn't use Fuel Cells for material handling in their stores and why GSE's are a failure. The same will be said about Data Centers someday as well.
WTM - Thank you for your question and recognition:
I think the Video is very pretty, but essentially an electronic version of "Smoke and Mirrors."
Nikola has been caught before using trick photography, and this video is more of the same.
Nikola does NOT have the technical expertise NOR the financial wherewithal to even achieve one tenth of what the video shows .
Nor does PLUG for that matter as we are learning.
It is their dream, but this dream will cost BILLIONS ... Billions that Nikola doesn't and will not have.
I truly admire their idea to grow the hydrogen infrastructure in conjunction and support of vehicle sales, but these are BIG COMPANY Ideas, and Nikola will never become a Big Company. Not even LINDE or Air Products are dreaming this BIG.
Do you remember the phrase, "Fake it until you make it" ?
Nikola is using shareholder money to produce videos to fool more people into investing.
Banger - How is your "reads more like good news, certainly not “really bad news"" Analysis holding up ?
As for the Cold Boxes:
We have know all of this for more than a year !
The Cold Boxes are a Long, Lead-Time purchase, so PLUG bought 2 units. One for Georgia and one for Texas.
Now that Texas is in Limbo, the second unit might stay in Georgia.
How do I know all this stuff ?
Hydrogen is So Easy !
WTM - Thanks for the OLD NEWS.
The article not the video.
Chart makes the Cold Boxes, we have been discussing at length. These are just one small (but important) component of the Liquification Process.
There are several ways to Liquify Gases and most use the Chart Cold Boxes.
The rest of the Georgia Liquification Unit, looks like a Rube Goldberg Contraption !
"Hydrogen is Easy".
Have a Nice Day.
Banger - "Reads more like good news" ??????
Have you noticed the World's reaction to your , "Good News" ?
velcro - Ole knew / knows the Truth. I have a great deal of respect for him and scruples.
Banger - I am all for Safety, especially when it comes to hydrogen !
And having worked in LNG you should know that the cool down process for all of the cryogenic equipment can take Months !
PLUG is still drying and cleaning and have not even begun the cool down.
Since this plant is being built and run by a bunch of amateurs, the chances of a mistake in just one of the complex processes is very High !
The chances of one of these mistakes causing a catastrophic failure is also quite High.
I would not want to work at or be anywhere near the plant IF it gets Fully Operational.
" HYDROGEN IS EASY "
REALLY BAD NEWS !
Check out
@BullishbyNature message on Stocktwits :
http://stocktwits.com/BullishbyNature/message/556493079
Charley - Is it Cheap ?
WTM - Yes, Several have been built in the last three years.
And with the IRA 45v, several more are in the works. A Cheap, Proven, Inexpensive , Clean Solution.
B_B - Cheap ? Hydrogen Cheap ? Let's see some comparative numbers, please.
And isn't RNG a much better, proven option. No Expensive hydrogen. No expensive storage tanks. Direct piping.
And RNG qualifies for the $3.00 Tax credit, since it is Carbon Negative.
Mac - Your Propane tank in your yard isn't at 10,000 PSI is it ?
If your propane tank fails, you will lose your propane and if there is an ignition source, there will be a fire.
The fun thing about hydrogen at 10,000 PSI, is , if the hydrogen tank in your yard fails, you and your neighbors will disappear ... Even without an ignition source.
Mac - Hydrogen is so easy,
Georgia is a year behind schedule.
WTM - That is your opinion.
As a counterbalance, my opinion is that he is a Pollyanna, and has a clear pro-hydrogen bias.
WTM - Is this the same guy who used to post the Captain Hydrogen videos ?
Total nonsense. Keep lowering the Bar (pun intended).
WTM - Like you, I am merely posting information about HYDROGEN. And ... Like you, I don't care anymore if it has anything to do with PLUG .. most of your posts DON'T!
I didn't write the article, so don't shoot the messenger just because YOU don't like what it says.
BTW - Since you have lowered the Bar, (pun intended), I can now post lots of negative articles . I used to keep these related to PLUG, but not any longer.