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That does narrow it down. I agree. I believe in Susman's ability to negotiate the best deal for equity.
Interesting.
What about partial payment in JPM stock? Is there a chance, down the line, where the deal is finalized and JPM recovers to be more profitable than ever? Maybe dilution takes the stock to sub $20, and in a year or three passes $50? 50% cash, 50% stock.
And for this they need to be held acountable. They need to pay up. Fair value, plus, as many have stated. It would be refreshing for those that think like the culprits here, including these culprits, to really think twice before ignoring the laws that have been enacted.
Come to think of it, it's about time the public challenged the new FINREG that passed a bit back.
I bet your right. I don't know that this has been determined in court yet. I'm just counting it as a claim that must be paid until it is confirmed otherwise. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised.
Though I want much more than $4, I totally agree with you on this.
Maybe they have offered $4 and SS has said no way. Maybe as fsshon theorized the deal is inked and final details are subject to the examiner report/valuation.
Still, if I was the FDIC or JPMC, and if I was in with certain market makers, even if a deal was inked, I might be inclined to let this run up to an enticing amount and buy the shares sold. At this point, shaking the tree won't move me. Chances are I would only sell enough to cover my investment, but I suspect many more might get out.
$30BB was thrown out by Nelson for a reason I believe. That might put the price for settlement around $8 for commons. There is enough wrongdoing to warrant damages IMO on top of this. What if they ran it up to $5?
On the other hand this is WAMU-gate. More and more eyes are on to the FDIC and JPMC and the DIP. I wouldn't be surprised to find this involves higher levels than originally thought. The price of poker has gone way up IMO. It might be too late to sweep this under the rug with a less than fair value settlement, especially if they want indemnity.
AIMO.
Though I want much more than
Thanks steved 45.
Wow, a yippy-kye-yeah!!! That is just profound, IMO!!! A rootin' a tootin' a keep it a comin' cowboyboots!!! Yeeee-Haah!!!
So potentially there is $3.5BB for preferreds (pq + kq), and potentially $3.9BB for Caymen's, and then $8BB in other liabilities...TOTAL of $15.4BB that must be paid out before commons.
I would to hear THJMW say just that! 'I told you I wouldn't consider the DS until hearing from the examiner. Next item.'
Good video thanks voodoo.
Great Balls of Fire!
I'm pretty sure you are within $5BB on that calculation.
Fine. Let them try and fight then. All they have to do is prove the accuracy of their numbers, with an accurate asset list.
Count me in on your sentiment!
I would love to see it play out like that. P's paid out in bk full face, some for uq's, then SS representing commons for much, much more in time. This seems to be a very good reason for JPM and the FDIC to offer a substantial settlement to all classes now. Why risk more? Don't know if they could secure indemnity at this point, but why not negotiate for it? Maybe the vice needs to be tightened a bit more so there is more motivation to pay up.
That is the question, precisely, that I would like Americans in mass to demand an answer to. Then I would like to enough pressure applied, a mandate, to enact 'change' that would protect businesses from this sort of theft in the future. Can't believe I feel this may be wishful thinking at this point.
Agreed. Isn't it interesting that it seems with the market conditions of 2008, and with the bk legal system being what it is, that what has happened is a different 'redistrbution of wealth' than what many thought was intended? I'm holding out to see something different this time!
I couldn't agree more. I couldn't post it any clearer than you did.
Thank you for taking the time to clarify things as they come up on the board. It makes a difference, and you could just easily let the unread, me included sometimes, worry on or remian misguided in anger. Thanks again.
True. LOL!
Further. Investors are encouraged to do their DD before they invest, and they are encouraged to invest with the understanding they could lose their entire investment. That's a given. The reality and rules of the game are what they are, and we choose to play by them.
The problem isn't, and I'm not being critical in any way with your comment I'm just adding a thought, that investments are lost, even if management fails. The problem occurs when the bk system is used by scheming crooks, to screw, rape, steal, pillage and plunder the property of others. An investment that doesn't work out for natural causes is one thing. Fraud and Robbery is an altogether different animal.
I never liked those people that break the rules most of us live by without giving it a second thought. Then, using devil's speak, they turn around and accuse the victems of doing the very thing they've actually done.
The idea being for parties to be compeled to 'reach an agreement' before Nov. 1st?
Catz, how much pressure do you believe there is to make this mess go away, for JPM, FDIC, WMI etc.? I have to believe there is significant desire., imo.
I don't think Nelson made a mistake. Have to admit when it's all said and done I want to know the truth about that 'slip up' in court! I've wondered.
This is all too contrived, DG1, don't you agree?
Word from the opposition delivered to this board by a questionable source to say the least. Followed up by a new POR, minutes later. Followed up by good ol' Johnny Winter bashing.
Why? To shake the tree again,IMO. Are they running out of time?
You make sense on this. JPM, not fdic, right.
If I were JPM/FDIC, on the eve of settlement, and still had the freedom to do it ie stocks not halted yet, I would try to play it just like that. Run values up to levels tempting holders to sell. All this before 2x or 3x dollar figure is announced. AIMO only.
You have got to be kidding me. What do these people want? Riots? This is beyond the point of ridiculous. I tell you someone needs to put the foot down. Illegal seizure. Period. This is f'n crazy. Seriously what is going to surface next?
Wise words by both you and bopfan, again. Thanks, and please keep them coming.
'recently reached compromise'
Hmmmm.
Myadad,
Nice to meet you. Your reputation proceeds you!
Anyone have the symbol real quick on 'the H's'?
I like Myadad's strategy here...will ahve to add just enough of these H's.
'to allow shorts to cover'
Thanks XOM. This makes a lot of sense. Is that a picture of you?
: )
XOM, why would trading still be allowed post shareholder position assessment, presumably in conjuction with a settlement? In other words...I took a position 3-1-10...but have much more significantly added to it over the past 6 months.
I understand we will know our individual outcomes when they happen. I just wouldn't see why trading would continue.
1 month extension, only. I too find this very interesting!
i do thank God for Susman.
On another note, speculating on share positions and fsshon's theory re SS having possibly already agreed to a settlement, wasn't it speculated that potentially October 8 could be a day that final positions in classes of shares for shareholders could be assessed? In other words, might we want to be inour preferred positions before October 8 in the event trading afterwards might be too late?
I know it's all just speculation, but what are your thoughts?
If the examiner shoots strait, then he will report the truth many of the DD'ers on this board have also reported. If he reports the truth, then THJMW can stand behind the report and rule accordingly. On the downside, if the examiner looks the other way or reports a bunch of hooey, THJMW could likewise stand behind it. But SS is watching. Who knows what he could take public if foul play rears its head.
I read the post. I gleaned the gist of Delaware bk court methods. I came away with the reality that the judge must step in when parties are not in agreement, or when foul play is obvious...like in the WMI bk.
AIMO.
ixoye
hardasset,
That was an interesting thread. I always like reading what bopfan has to say about whatever topic arises. Thank you.
So FDIC doesn't want the recapitalization plan to see the light of day. FDIC doesn't want the public, and media (even though they may control the media), to get wind of WAMU's solid plan. For them it's risking what they covet.
The plan they have,(JPMC through WGM in bk, or FDIC and JPMC through WGM in bk...wonder which it is...suspect the later), is to strike, outside of the constraints of their jurisdiction/authority, and seize at this perceived one time opportunity. As you may have stated before, or others, they do this to use the bk system...a system that has worked to their advantage in the past, to seal the deal 'legally', at the height of the 'crisis', robbing shareholders for their benefit.
A key to this is who filed for bk and why? It doesn't seem to fit that bk application was for protection. We know who's signature was on the bk application...Rosen's right? It seems more likely WGM may have been in on it all along. I think I was hung up on why the necessity to file for bk on Friday in particular. Do you have any ideas why?
AIMO.