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Thanks to karen for links! First thought is that CC1807 has a drastic problem that is acknowledged-poor-very poor- activity against Pseudomonas. In order to be a big player this will have to change, hence the statement about modification to make it work against Pseudomaonas. Prob a fatal flaw.
Need to look more carefully at the other candidates
Is this for the cc-1807 talk? Sure hope we can see the gm- info
I don't see why they cannot do both- inform shareholders in timely fashion, and present info at ASCO. Part of my unhappiness stems from CEO telling investors via email that very good news is coming, and then failing to deliver such news- just my opinion
I think that what you said-pts not necessarily given a therapeutic dosing regimen- will probably be accurate for these Phase 1 results. And new dosing, as they have already promised, might be better. I wonder how different the Bologna K dosing will be- quite different from the Phase 1 from what they said in update.
"appropriate scientific venue" CTIX says, you need to wait for one of those for us to tell you why we are so optimistic about K.
Hmm...I wonder.
We (CTIX)did not wait to put up a headline about a disappearing spleen lesion, when it suited us. But you are going to have to sit tight if you want to know how much more the p21 went up for 350 and 450 cohorts.
It went up in an expected manner, OK? CTIX, just say a bit more now, why don't you? You can tell message board posters that things are looking up, and then you can fail to deliver the goods-my opinion, and the market's opinion. If things are so rosy then spell it out a bit. You know, so shares don't slide so much after your positive update...
I don't like it, personally. And I do not like the "some pts had stabilization" as I have already said. Why not add a bit more detail? It makes me suspect the details are not so great. And they do not want to say so. Happy to provide little info now, more to come in 2 months, wait for ASCO. Even though CEO said good news on the way.
There was some good news, to be sure.
Just not enough, says the market.
C'mon baby light my fire: New PR suggestion- maybe they could say they they thought about it again, and decided to meet with the FDA after all about Hidradenitis Suppurativa. That this time they will really really have the meeting. And that they will not just postpone it, or cancel, or whatever. I wonder if that can light a fire?
Sorry for slow response. Decontextualization? I was an English major and I don't use words like that. Methinks thou dost protest too much.
I do not think that the points I raised are diminished at all by what you have said.
But we disagree, apparently
I know as much as we all do, which is what was just announced. You can interpret it how you want. If you prefer to believe the CEO just told us nothing, fine. That is not what I heard, but we did not learn much.
Underdeliver? prev brief discussion was about CEO overpromising re press releases, many days back, waiting for this exact announcement.
I would count this update as a clear case of underdeliver.
I would have thought Dana Farber would be giving K to those with p53 mutations.
Also, CTIX wanted to be able to demonstrate tumor response, not just change in p21.
Sadly it appears the current regimens haven't had that impact.
One point is why didn't the company say up front that the HDP for colitis was B? So that we and the rest of the world would think the platform was farther along than it was? Seriously, I do not get it. And what about HS? Betcha anything it's B again. So just say it already.
The other point is that K is safe but AT BEST("some pts")keeps solid tumors at bay. At the current doses. That is a big difference from what many posters expected just a while back.
This is not to say at all that you expected K as a single agent solid tumor drug- I am referring board sentiment generally.
Maybe with new regimens there will be better results.
And that too does not matter as long as K plays well with others- other trials in the works as stated.
Biotech biotech yadda yadda
what about the issues I raised?
Don't mean this mean spirited frrol- I respect your opinions.
I am interested in a dialogue
Two key negative points from update. First is that K has stabilized tumors in some patients. That is all. No more crowing about efficacy or disappearing lesions. Maybe in new dosing regimens, or at higher doses it will show some benefit. BUT IF NOT, so much for the single agent use of the drug in solid tumors. Second, the other HDP for colitis is, wait for it, wait, hold on....Brilacidin, in another dosage form. I bet that the HS drug is Brilacidin too in some form. Some platform- it's all Brilacidin, your current one hit wonder.
I have only seen people raising the positives, and complaining about the delays, and not much else but I have not read every post- it is school vacation week in Boston too, so not much chance to read carefully.
I never saw K as a single agent- as you know- but there was a large counter attack when I have voiced this opinion recently. In solid tumors safety is good but efficacy will need to be proven in combo. That is now clear- unless future regimens yield other results. Those results will be a long time from now.(But exciting that AML moving forward in Italy)
And there is nothing wrong with Brilacidin being a big winner. It just raises the question of whether the rest of the platform will ever reach prime time. CC1807 gm -, and the maybe anti fungal???
I saw the update as very good news mixed with pretty bad news.
I have read a fair amnt, but clearly not enough. Some board members are helpful with info, and provide info when I, or other posters, have gone astray. Others would rather simply make snide remarks, hard to say why, really.
10 years from now we can look back and see how often K is a stand alone anti cancer drug.
Since it apparently it has little in the way of toxicity, now we just need efficacy.
Time will tell.
Excellent info! Thanks very much!
Wish there was more, but anything along these lines means a lot, and I failed to look closely enough prior.
I am not talking at all about the current trial. I am talking about data such as provided by Aprea and Trojantec and others showing how their drugs work in the lab with other agents.
In the lab, not at Dana Farber. I get the very big difference and of course those other real trials are years away.
And you don't care to see any more data about K and other potential combo agents? You really don't care?
I write the most obvious of posts- the company would serve us well to show us what other companies are already doing-and someone takes issue?
Even if you trust the company, such data are the drivers for the stock and nothing else.
Look at the p21 curves at Trojantec showing large percentages of possible ovarian cancer cures- you don't care to see such info for K?
Oh yeah, I know. Leo will show those slides when he wants and I will just wait quietly. I don't mind if those other companies are giving out more info.
So there is a divergence of opinion: I am in the camp that says,
Show me the data!
Give me a glimpse of the future.
Does K play well with others? Wouldn't it be nice if CTIX would just please release some other studies about combo therapy? You know, like everybody else does? So you can get a sense of how K might begin to fit into world of cancer therapies?
Why bring this up again?
When you read the KMBJN/SLCimmuno links to Trojantec and you click on the p21 study, there it is, right away the p21 drug plus some other chemo vs ovarian ca. The same is true of APR 246, as mentioned.
K will need to work in concert with many other agents with many types of tumors- this is one of its potential singular advantages. How about we get a look at what those combination treatments might do in a lab?
Sigh.
NYT article today on"liquid biopsy" DNA snippets found blood tests to identify tumors assess response to chemo, etc .From NCI in Lancet Oncology this month according to article. More info about direction oncology has moved- genetics, oncogenes, mutations,resistance.
K update any day now.
?impact on potential update from CTIX given tomorrow's a holiday here in Massachusetts, Patriot's Day, the running of the Marathon in Boston. Unsure if it'd be done Monday, or no impact.
MD MBA JD
Dude that is a lot of schoolin'
Best of luck to you
What is your specialty, just out of curiosity?
I have also never had a pt on Daptomycin but I work in the ED, not a likely setting for it.
Surprised shares available at decent prices today with CEO basically promising good news in the nearest future, and glad to get a few more.
My own view of the fluff PRs is that they are just fine, so far as they go. It strongly suggests that the HDP drugs will not be a one hit wonder. That is one of my fears about the stock.That it will be Brilacidin and the rest is silence, or much ado about nothing. UC and HS are real targets, not bogus fluff. If the HDPs can prove effective, it is a real plus.
Cannot wait to see more of the GM- poster, nervous about its chances(CC-1807), a MAJOR impact drug if for real.
Could not agree more that visibility is key, and right now the stock is invisible. It won't last, as the story unfolds for B etc, and also esp if K is a winner.
Nice. Thanks for spending time on the tutorial.
What is the value of the best drug for resistant Pseudomonas and Klebsiella?
What is its value if it never gets out of trials?
Or if it is all an unknown?
What is the value of a new drug in the world of ulcerative colitis?
What if it never hits the shelves?
Or if all of it is an unknown?
Maybe the new drugs will be blockbusters and maybe they won't. Way too soon to know.
Talking about actual values is tough.
Agreed.
Yes certainly that is what I am saying. We are talking about all of the new drugs from the HDP platform-all the ones that have a preclinical existence only for now(HS UC CC1807.....)
I am not complaining. We are having a discussion.
There is not a lot of preclinical to follow through to clinical. My point stands.
Maybe when we know all about the UC and HS and gm- drugs we can reopen the discussion.
As I ponder the possible development of CC1807, for example, a big gun against the worst bacterial infections, with perhaps no resistance issues, I cannot easily assign a value to such a drug.
I just can't. So little is known. Will it work, is it safe, what else will be in play to treat the resistant infections by the time CC1807 reaches the market. Such a drug could change the practice of infectious disease, change how patient after patient is treated every day in every hospital in the world. Or the drug may go nowhere, never get out of trials.
Such a drug will have drastically different valuations depending on where it is in the process, preclinical to approaching phase 3.
Take Briilacidin: Polymedix went bankrupt , and now Brilacidin might be a blockbuster.
As I think about the new ulcerative colitis drug, I find it hard to assign any value. Will it work in actual humans, and will it be safe? And how will it fit into the world of inflammatory bowel disease treatments? A major new player, or never to see the light of day?
How to attach values here?
I think it is difficult, to say the least.
Laughable is the wrong word, and I should have chosen words more wisely.
And by the way, thanks for your posts.
It would be nice if the world were so simple, that every drug that looks OK in animals turns out to be fine in human trials. And it will be nice if the colitis drug and the HS drug are fine in human trials. Do I think they have has successful preclinical studies? Of course they do, they could not go forward otherwise.
That is a LONG way from where Brilacidin is today.
That's why they have the trials. Because it is not so easy and predictable.
BK is a respected long term poster, and I read his posts with interest. If I happen to disagree with a part of what he says it is not bashing. It is a quarrel with one of his points.
If everyone else on the board thinks that every single thing he had in the recent summary to say is right on the mark, so be it. It surprises me, because I see the HDP platform as too much of an unknown to attach a value too.
however: I am interested in what others have to say about ctix and glad to hear other perspectives.
This is not bashing a knowledgeable long time and respected poster.
it is a discussion of our mutual investment.
Good grief Such nonsense.
Would you like to suggest a time frame for the HDPs(other than B) to prove worthwhile? No, I didn't think so. You'd rather agree with some laughable notion that someone will buy a whole unproven platform. Time will tell.
I have been adding shares, not selling.
Ha! yeah, 4 it is.( I did write to CTIX to see if they just renamed a PMX drug or this is one they developed)
And now 16 months later. Hope they can present a lot more details at meeting.
If not renamed then CC-1807 is new, since I can find nothing about a PMX1807
Looking forward to many more details in the actual gm - presentation.
From quick read through, and not able to look up prev Polymedix data, unsure how much new info is being presented. Hope to read through it when shift is done.
If little new presented , sigh.
But do not recall hearing something was better than Meropenem()superior reduction)in one area.
I will be glad to read through the human studies for the ulcerative colitis HDP, and the HS(Hid...Supp....) HDP, and the gram - HDP
if someone wants to post the citations.....