Well, good I prefer to pass on the word games myself. And I mean that kindly.

1 yes, several years, sold off Qcom 1/4/2000.

2. A replay of the qcom saga, plus a ericy bonus. The start was the patent validation. Much has changed since then.

3. The small ones that are signing the big contracts in this field. But this is becoming a mature field now. Too many players, and little growth in over all sales. Anyway, the health field, biotech, cancer cures, preventive drugs not yet into phase 3 etc are good. A lot of baby boomers getting old out there. Myself included. 77 million boomers within a 20 year period just starting to hit the retirement years, and they certainly will need this items, daily, monthly, whatever and have the money to buy it. Not much of a contest between buying a phone to talk on or some product to keep you alive.

4 I still have money here. This has been a great trading stock, one of the best over the last 2,3 years. Trades make a lot of money on this one. Short's make a lot of money on this one. Option players, the good ones, have been known to kick it pretty good as well.

5 your real question seem to be why don't I believe? Because there is nothing over the last several years to support it { it being the big run} except the hype of what could be. The stock market is filled with hundreds, if not thousands of could be's. I don't worry as much as what it could be, just what it is. When common sense tells me to trade it, I trade it. It should be noted the reason the price comes down is OTHERS are selling too. You CAN NOT control a stock from the board. Only foolish people who don't know any better claim things like that. The key is in the D and D. T/A helps , but only after you find what your looking for.

And here I have nothing but good things to say about you.

Later

Don't feel the need, but if I did, then what? To what end. I don't know you from adam.

If you got something that makes sense about the company , go right ahead, post it, so far I'm haven't seen a thing.

As far as releasement of my statement to you. Not happening.

In the mean time learn to lose your money more gracefully.

At least it will cut down on your whine.

Later

Really,

"Gejim...and others ...I feel quite certain have adopted a similar stategy"

And here I thought you were smarter than that , oh well, so be it.

RE: CREATE AN ATMOSPHERE OF UNCERTAINTY AND DESPAIR

That was created by the company. They needed no help from anybody on the board.

Your spins are getting poorer as time goes on. Perhaps a dose of reality should help you. there is plenty to see if you wish.

I have NO interest to buy ANY at these prices. PERIOD No games no story, PERIOD!

Can't make it any more clearer than that. This company has a lot to prove before I buy any more.

BTW Right now your down 11 bucks from the peak and I put 7 figures in the bank from this one, nuff said.

oh, and have a good night.

TC , got all I want right now. Won't be buying any more anytime soon.

If only it was that simple. with all the cross license agreements and side contracts, well it's anything but easy to put together.

A good example would be MOT. They sell 2g. They sell 3G. We lost a court case with them 8 years ago. All the patents we have delevoped since that time apparently are worthless in regards to collecting from MOT. PRE 95 sure, post 95, where's the money. They're using it, are they not.

See what I mean

That's not the worst case. It's the company that has agreed to indemnify against us on any new 3g license. If that holds true, it's over.

That's worst case.

Roller,

Well I say this I hope your right.

The Nokia deal has been a little twisted from day 1. The whole thing has been a mystery until recently. The difference between the ones you mentioned and Nokia is in the contract.

RE: I/P It would seems Qcom as an example writes better contracts, or at the very least gets paid on them.

Alley, incase you didn't know

" If you have a doubt that they were not conscientious in preparing this agreement....Sell."

I did sell roughly 95 percent of my position in this one

The 5 percent I'll keep until I know far more than what is known now. That's about as much of a risk as I'm will to take. But it was a great ride up to 27.

Alley, what's your thoughts on the company that has agreed to indemnify against IDCC.

In its 10-K, InterDigital disclosed that some manufacturers of third-generation products "have shown reluctance to license our patents because a leading wireless company has agreed to indemnify them against allegations of infringement."

I would think this is slowing a few things down for 3G as well.

Alley , here's another thought for you, how long are we going to fool around with this 2g mess while companies are starting to make there mark on 3g. 3g is a ways off but the relationships are being formed, have been forming for some time now. IDCC isn't one of the movers and shakers here, were more of a nuisance fee that most would love to ignore and considering all the telecom companies out there, they have ignored. Somebody needs to let IDCC into the game.

I'm not seeing the open arms, know what I mean.

I agree, arbitration will decide what will become of IDCC. From IDCC point of view your right. From Nokia's your not. I own,right now anyway about the same of both. We'll find out in about a year time or so {this stated by IDCC, but not by Nokia} of what we have.

It's all written in those contracts of 99 and apparently in the sealed ERIC/IDCC documents. Grab a snickers, were going to be here for a while.

Spin move: I see InterDigital Communications (IDCC, news, msgs) planned a conference call today to, er, discuss its royalty dispute with Nokia (NOK, news, msgs). (InterDigital shares fell sharply Tuesday after it said Nokia is seeking to stall arbitration related to a royalty payment dispute between the companies until it sees papers related to an earlier case.)

As I wrote last April in TheStreet View, the issue is critical for InterDigital, which appears to get a good deal of revenue from suing other companies over its patents. TheStreet View item, which appeared as InterDigital was coming off a 70% two-week jump, questioned what recent buyers of the stock could possibly have been thinking

Well, they must've been convinced the company was about to get more than $300 million in future royalty payments from Samsung and Nokia. At least that was the impression the company left in a March 17 press release about a settlement with Ericsson (ERICY, news, msgs) and Sony Ericsson. The suggestion was that the formula used in the Ericsson settlement "could be" applied to the Nokia case. In fact, the words "could be" were used five times in the press release

But could be, as investors are learning now, is a far cry from "will be." Nokia argues it doesn’t owe InterDigital any royalties. And this note: In its 10-K, InterDigital disclosed that some manufacturers of third-generation products "have shown reluctance to license our patents because a leading wireless company has agreed to indemnify them against allegations of infringement."

As I noted in TheStreet View, that's big news because 3G has been a linchpin in the InterDigital story. After all, if some big manufacturer were to indemnify all vendors against InterDigital, InterDigital risks becoming irrelevant. (For those wondering where Samsung fits in the scheme of things: They're believed to be waiting to see what happens with Nokia.)


REF
http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/P56385.asp

My add, the spin was poor, and exposed more than it covered.IMO

Anyway we'll find out in a year or so just what they will get if anything from Nok.

Sure would be nice to view that contract

I do. I think the meat of the rally has been over for a month or so . We have been in a channel of sideways action since early june. Not seeing any major danger signals, the earnings where to good from too many for that IMO. I don't see a major breakdown but that term could have different meanings between us. Mine would be a 20percent plus correction in a short time line. However if someone were to say 5 to 10 percent drift short term with perhaps a 20 percent correction by Oct I would say likely.

What do you see in a few more weeks

I have 16 as support. And your right the gap from 14 to 16 is certainly at risk of being filled . Much of the recent rise has been a combination of expectation of Nokia payment an the NAS /telecom com sectors being red hot.

The sector is starting to chill and has started it's rev. The NAS has topped and the earning season is almost done. Nok as it appears right now is a year away. The rise has been cancelled out. With the overall rally now done it's back to play "pick the support level"

Won't get to worked up over the rsi now that is failed to hold at 50. I'll wait to 30 and see the reaction on whatever breakout it makes from there.

I will say this however it was a GREAT rally, whatever you had your money in.

OT Briefing.com 3:37 edt
Reuters 5:00 edt

7/22/2003

Nokia 7/22/2003.

Nokia Corp. and InterDigital Communications Corporation Enter Arbitration
July 22, 2003
Nokia Corp. announced that announced that it has requested binding arbitration regarding its royalty payment obligations for its worldwide sales of 2G GSM/TDMA (2G) and 2.5G GSM/GPRS/TDMA (2.5G) products under the existing patent license agreement with InterDigital Technology Corporation (ITC), the wholly-owned subsidiary of InterDigital Communications Corporation. Nokia's request for arbitration was filed in the International Court of Arbitration of the International Chamber of Commerce. Nokia is seeking a determination that it has no royalty obligations to ITC based upon ITC's licensing of Ericsson and Sony Ericsson, and is seeking an order requiring ITC to provide Nokia with access to various documents related to previous litigations, negotiations, and arbitrations with other parties. Pending access to the requested documents, Nokia is seeking to prevent the commencement of arbitration proceedings that would determine royalty amounts owed to ITC for the period starting January 1, 2002. ITC has thirty days to respond to Nokia's request for arbitration. As part of ITC's response, ITC intends to file a counterclaim seeking a determination of and award for royalties owed to ITC by Nokia

mschere, I give you this, you're not going to let a little thing like reality get in your way.

However per IDCC and NOK, well here from the last CC by IDCC.

"Nokia is also seeking to get copies of a large number of documents and they are seeking to prevent any further arbitration as to the royalty issues until they can get the documents and the parties can conduct additional negotiations"

Lets see what stands out here, oh yeah, PREVENT ANY FUTHER ARBITRATION UNTIL THEY GET THE DOCUMENTS. Perhaps mschere you can tell us when the ruling on that was? The results? If it has happened yet,{ for the others, it hasn't} how long before we know the ruling? How long does Nok have to study the records,files, documents before presenting their side of the case to the arb board? 3mo, 6 before arb can start. Longer?

More background.

Do I understand this correctly, in the release you put out talks about they're asking for arbitration and then tending or getting these documents, they're asking for no arbitration or the right to not have that enforced; are they just asking the arbitrators to force you to turn over these documents, BILL MERRITT: You're assessment's pretty good. A base nucleus, it's a series of requests that they have. One is, sort of, a global request to have the panel determine that the Ericsson and Sony Ericsson agreements have not triggered the obligations. Once the panel takes that and assuming that they reject that position, then they -- Nokia has asked for a bunch of documents

You do realize that Nokia is the one that started arbitration don't you. That Nokia then is trying to freeze the clock until they get the documents they wish to review.

Question, do you think their legal department might have thought this through? Do you think they know what they're doing? Think they have any experience in this type of arena?{ for the others, you bet they do} Nokia's the controller on this issue, and they had plenty of time to do the setup. There not the ones going in blind. IDCC now has to get their legal team up and running. Nokia already has.

I don't know what's in that contract that was signed back in 99 but per Nok they think they don't have to pay. That the rates should not start over the Ericy issue.

But what worries me is why their going after those documents in the first place.

Poor contract in the first place, period. They have been using our I/P ALL ALONG. In a nutshell the contract must state something like Nokia can use IDCC's patents until IDCC can land one of the select few and then under certain provisions under Nokia's blessing after Nokia has a chance to review all previous IDCC contracts, {read jump through a few dozen hoops} Nokia may pay something decided by the arb board after the courts decide what Nokia wishes to have to block the issue. Smooth contract. Yeah no question about , Idcc has Nokia right where Nokia wants them. Idcc is in full control, you know, after the courts decide and the arb panel tells them what, if anything they should get.

Perhaps a few more options for the management is in order.

Sorry for the delay , just caught your post .

RE: After listening to the CC I get the sense that a compromise is in the offing, with IDCC making some consessions.

Well, LOL I would imagine IDCC would do a great deal of compromise to land Nokia. Doesn't seem to me that Nokia is listening. But then again Nokia got the money, I don't see any need for them to rush on their part whatsoever. If fact it seems Nokia position is clear. They don't think Ericy's lawsuit qualifies the rate trigger. And that would be fine by itself as arbitration would cover it. Its this other part, 1 release records on ALL PAST LIG/ARB/LIC. To Nokia to study. 2 release the sealed areas of the Ericy lawsuit/settlement. Contrary to what BILL stated, this is not the norm for a company that has a strong working relationship, {of course we have only heard this from IDCC, not Nok} and is already licensed, remember rate only. If the contract was right this should be clear,clean and a dead issue. It's not, there will be arbitration, which was suspected, but when is the last time you read in the headlines that a company wanted the release of all past records concerning contracts, from another, especially from a strong working partnership{ again from IDCC only}.

You mean to tell me there are 1000's of patents, from all over the world were not getting paid on. WHY?

"..that Merritt described as being over 100 U.S. patents..and Thousands world wide"

Interesting post, mschere

Re: more IDCC's Fundamental 3G patents are being approved daily

Question, what percent off all 3G sales is IDCC collecting on with all the patents?

If 1 dollar would be 100 percent, IDCC is getting what revenue of all current 3g sales. 2cents? Less than? Your answer is awaited. And then please follow up with WHY they're not getting paid, I mean after all the patents are being used aren't they? WHY are the others in this getting paid and IDCC is not on ALL sales.

RE: IDCC will still receive royalties from any future licensee for there past 3G sales

Yeah. . . you know shouldn't we worry about collecting for 2 g first before you have everybody once again paying IDCC for 3 G.

60mil phone sales projected for sales of 3g by 2006. Roughly 300mil are projected for 2g now. We are supposed to get more for 2g than 3g per phone. Perhaps 2g should be looked at first instead of worrying about 1/5 the sales of a product we don't have licensed yet that is 3 years away.

Qual is, and will be far bigger than IDCC could hope to get. One might consider sticking with a like for like. Their management is also far better and for that reason Qcom IS getting paid where as IDCC is not. Take a look at both companies pre 94. One made it, one didn't.

Broken80, That a pretty honest post.

A few comments if I may, all just my opinion

RE: Will never understand why IDC settled with Eric without a guaranteed 3G contract.

IMO, was never on the table. IDCC won, Ericy wasn't going to give them a 3g besides. That was never part of the lawsuit.

RE: No one has the slightest idea of what the contract between KOP & Nok says

And that's the scary part. How many ways out do they have? 31 mil for pre 99 use. Nothing for 99 to 02. 02 and after tied to the rates issue that's included in the contract that we can't see. Bottom line Nok has been selling this stuff forever, while we sit and wait for others to decide this company's fate.

RE: we have an indemnifier out there

Yeah but the company won't tell us who, nor the impact or for that matter how they plan to defend against this. It's just out there!

RE: KOP has misled us with misinformation

I'm sticking with the word questionable, it could just be failure on their part to resolve certain issues.

RE: analysts with their recommendations out on a limb

Perhaps, a side note to this is many here know far more than the current analysts do. But neither matter because it's all what the avg person thinks. And where they're going to put their money, or remove it.

RE:persistant insider selling after releases

Agree, best market timers in the game. But only because they lead and others follow. If a lie to told by enough people, soon IT becomes the truth and the truth becomes the lie.

RE: many investors hurt and disillusioned by the drop in price

No,that's what caused the drop in price,the investors. And the ones that did weren't disillusioned at all.

Bottom line and regarding bright future, still a speculative stock, in some ways even more so now.

RE: Hoping for a Miracle.

Hoping for management, they guys can't seem to find the way out of the mess they created.
IMO

OT A simple test to make sure your seeing your investments clearly.

Sometimes hanging around on the computer too long clouds your thinking and eye sight. Just a simple check. In the first you should clearly see clean straight lines.

http://www.ttrader.com/mycharts/display.php?p=13940&u=gejim&a=lightcharts&id=171

The second is just to make sure you're as sharp as you need to be. Just simply count the black dots only.

http://www.ttrader.com/mycharts/display.php?p=13941&u=gejim&a=lightcharts&id=171

Piece of cake.

Oh and have a good weekend

Dishfan,

Well I won't argue fund vs tech since I use both. I also don't live and die with any analysts claims. That would be the biggest mistake I could make. But since we only have 4 and the most recent ones just came on board when the thought was Nok was to pay, let's just see how many new ones rush in now that the Nok issue is clearly a good period away.

No, I not wondering at all. Unless they rush out a new license or two, it's going to fall, no need for wonder there.

So your saying out of all those millions of shares just sold the professionals hanged tough, you know the ones that handle 1/3 of the shares, is that correct. Glance at level 3 if you get a chance, talk about trading!

As a footnote, perhaps somebody should remind the management of the fund vs tech. The buying from the management or for that matter buyback from the company itself has been a little thin, vapor like if fact.

They need to be told, if you can catch them when there not selling at the peaks

Anyway enough.

Doesn't matter, it's the overall package that was said.

Anyway gone for a while.

Mschere,

Right now the fundamentals look pretty shaky. We'll see what the 2QT CC brings.

Regarding TA , yeah it's as clear as a bell where this is going. This is not a guess, and from more angles than I can count. And every broker in the country has a TA Tech they go with . And I assure you everyone can see the same thing I can. Forget the Andrews, ignore the fib, support, who cares, vol, money flow, nonsense. None of that matters cause were going to break even this qt, maybe, and who knows we may even get something from Nok, but not now, nor do I think there is a hope this year. But you are right eventually, however some may not live that long.

Also what's going on in the market is pretty good. Soon as the NYSI and the NAS 50 highs started to fall we all got the old it's time to buy from the experts, around June 1st. On avg. anybody that bought during the time frame, well you know what they say, but nobody listens. . . . . left a few market charts to back up my statements, left IDCC out ,because, well mschere it's better you don't know. .

http://stockcharts.com/def/servlet/SC.web?c=$NYSI,uu[h,a]daclyyay[pb50!b200][vc60][iUb14!La12,26,9]&...

http://stockcharts.com/def/servlet/SC.web?c=$naa50r,uu[h,a]daclyyay[pb50!b200][vc60][iUb14!La12,26,9...

You have a good night now.

Blue,
From Data's post. BTW Thanks DATA!

Re: ge_jim, i wouldnt say nokia is definitely a year away.....i believe management emphasized it was a year at most......

Lets be fair and take a look.


BILL MERRITT:
You think about the nature of arbitration, the nature of arbitration, particularly the ITC (ph) rules aren't intended to provide relatively quick resolution of matters.

My add, ok , lets rule out next week anyway.

BILL MERRITT: It's my best estimate based upon experience. The ICC does provide some rules with respect to timeframes but, you know, obviously, the timeframes are driven, to some extent, by the issues to be decided and the scope of discovery and things like that. But, you know, our ballpark of a year for other cases is -- you know, I think it's a reasonable place to start with this

My add, Arbitration takes about a year, does that mean after Nok gets done loading up the files to go over, I don't know. But I guess a ball park of a year is a good place to start.

BILL MERRITT: You know, that's -- again, I think that the -- it goes back to that question of, you know, why are they looking for all these documents and I think it's just what lawyers do. {{That’s a very bad statement there}} but I like this next one by Bill, {{Nokia's lawyers are taking the roundhouse punches}} oh yeah professional all the way.

While the exact length of any arbitration is difficult to predict, from our experience the process usually takes around a year.

Again a ref. to a year.

HOWEVER

But before that can begin, we have this

And you're exactly right. It appears from Nokia's positioning that they're setting up, sort of, a serial process

Nokia is also seeking to get copies of a large number of documents and they are seeking to prevent any further arbitration as to the royalty issues until they can get the documents and the parties can conduct additional negotiations

My add, How long does it take to get them, how long does it take to go over them, when will arbitration be allowed to continue.

Do I understand this correctly, in the release you put out talks about they're asking for arbitration and then tending or getting these documents, they're asking for no arbitration or the right to not have that enforced; are they just asking the arbitrators to force you to turn over these documents , BILL MERRITT: You're assessment's pretty good. A base nucleus, it's a series of requests that they have. One is, sort of, a global request to have the panel determine that the Ericsson and Sony Ericsson agreements have not triggered the obligations. Once the panel takes that and assuming that they reject that position, then they -- Nokia has asked for a bunch of documents.

More background

so they're going to push and try to push and probe and they'll push and probe at as many areas as they can
And again

You know, as far as, you know, what are they -- think they may find in these big load of documents that they're looking for, you know, I don't -- I don't know what they're looking for in particular.

I guess this is good, because if he knew what they were looking for. I'd be worried.LOL

You know, whether something amounts to bad faith or something like that, that's a -- that's an issue I'm not dealing with right now

I hope there will not be a need.

BTW the chips from IFX will not be out for 3 more qt. Doesn't matter , even if it was out now still wouldn't be enough to support the current price IMO.

You might want to reglance at the price. LOL

Drugs ! eom

Plumear,


Was going to get back to you last night but ran out out of time.

The action, not good, set up into a hollow shell . The big boys are trying to get their money out as high as they can,
News, the dog and pony show was nice but it did expose the several areas of weakness and the delay factors. This is going to take awhile and has a unknown ending.

Pulling most of my shares on this one today, taking a step back from it. The risk reward factors are all wrong for my type of investing. With Nokia a year away this is very overvalued right now,IMO, don't see the upside. I can make money elsewhere, and get back to this one later.

You take care

Blue,

Nows not the best time for me to answer this. Between the boards, the e mails and and phone calls I'm about done talking IDCC today, respectfully to you, but I'm worn out. There are way to many people confused with this investment right now, and for good reason, if more time was spent on thinking than panic we might be able to hash this out. However that doesn't mean they'll like the answer. It's not the arbitration that bothers me,that could have been clean. These delay tactics won't be.

I'm going to have to sleep on this.

Nokia side, Nokia requests InterDigital papers on Ericsson case
July 22, 2003 5:00:00 PM ET



NEW YORK, July 22 (Reuters) - Shares of InterDigital Communications Corp. (IDCC) fell sharply on Tuesday after it said mobile phone maker Nokia (NOK) is seeking to stall arbitration related to a royalty payment dispute between the companies until it sees papers related to an earlier case.

Wireless technology company InterDigital -- which reached a settlement with another phone maker, Sweden's Ericsson , on a license dispute in March -- saw its shares close down $5.83, or nearly 25 percent, at $17.71 on the Nasdaq after it issued the news.

King Of Prussia, Pennsylvania-based InterDigital said Nokia's request relates to an InterDigital claim its agreement with Ericsson and joint venture Sony Ericsson defines how Nokia, the Finnish world No. 1 mobile phone maker, should pay royalties on mobile phone technology.

Nokia is seeking a determination that it has no royalty obligations to InterDigital based on its licensing agreement with Ericsson, InterDigital said.

The Finnish cell phone maker is also asking InterDigital for documents related to previous litigation and negotiations and wants to stall arbitration until it sees the documents, InterDigital said.

Nokia intends to file an action in U.S. federal court requesting access to the documents related to the Ericsson case previously sealed by the court, InterDigital said.

InterDigital, which has 30 days to respond to Nokia's request for documents, said it intends to file a counterclaim seeking royalties from Nokia. REUTERS

AMS,

If we lose the 16 level for more than just a interday ,we'll fill the gap that we jumped , lose a level on the house and have a base in the high 11's. From there who knows. Many won't like the words here, but I did say if, and frankly I'm not a happy camper with the worded delay tactics provided in the release. I somehow got confused and thought Nokia's relationship was a bit better than what I now thinking. That's my mistake. It will be unlikely that I will make another with this company regarding their contracts.

Regarding your 1 to 5 , all but number 5 I agree, 5 is still a question mark at this point , depending.

A quick overview

Nokia has requested binding arbitration

My add, important to note and remember the word binding.

Pursuant to the dispute resolution provisions of the patent license agreement, Nokia's request for arbitration was filed in the International Court of Arbitration of the International Chamber of Commerce (ICC).

MY add, Standard weasel clause. Wonder what the time factor of the ICC is. From the ones currently going on. Might be interesting developing a time line.

Nokia's arbitration request relates to ITC's claim that the patent license agreements ITC signed with Ericsson and Sony Ericsson in March 2003 defined the financial terms under which Nokia would be required to pay

My add, without knowing what the contract states, there is no way of knowing what kind of case they can make for arbitration. A unknown.

Nokia is seeking a determination that it has no royalty obligations to ITC based upon ITC's licensing of Ericsson and Sony Ericsson.

My add again a above, a determination, wonder what they got.

Alternatively, Nokia is seeking an order requiring ITC to provide Nokia with access to various documents related to previous litigation's, negotiations, and arbitration's with other parties.

WHY why and why are they worried about previous litigation's and previous arbitration's. Ericy, Mot, Nec, interesting.

Pending access to the requested documents, Nokia is seeking to prevent the commencement of arbitration proceedings that would determine royalty amounts owed to ITC for the period starting January 1, 2002.

I like the two words here, pending {read delay} and prevent {read delay} hell they don't even what the arb. to start.

ITC has thirty days to respond to Nokia's request for arbitration. As part of ITC's response, ITC intends to file a counterclaim seeking a determination of and award for royalties owed to ITC by Nokia.

Boiler plate, fencing, posturing

Separately, Nokia has indicated that it intends to file an action in Federal Court to gain access to documents previously sealed by the Court related to the now-settled Ericsson litigation.

Delay, delay delay.

This is very bad for the good will. Also the leverage that could be used regarding current and future contracts and the standards board and that "help" we were getting, all needs to be considered.

Much to think on here.

Let me guess, this is just weak hands leaving the stock. Right! Oh the spin and BS will flow from this board over the next few days, mean while there is a lot to be learn by the serious investors. And this is a serious deal.

to the shorts , congrat, you win this round.
to the margin players, oops, I feel for you.
to the traders, next few months, oh yeah
to the longs , it will come back.
to the option players, easy come easy go
And to the big boys, I'm counting on you, in fact I'm going to play off you.

Oh yeah ,to the cheerleaders . . . . . shhhhhhhhh time.

Looks like a trading we will go. Should be fun .

PR and hype isn't what we need. Revenue is. The story can only be told for so long.

Let's stick with the contracts, their real.

I wouldn't sweat the 120 if you know what I mean. Not going to happen. 40 maybe ,but not 120. Frankly I don't think it's up for sale nor do I think anybody is interested. Factor a half percent per phone and then factor all the cross license agreements and it doesn't make any sense. IMO.

Just a FYI. Samsung Elec Bullish on Q3 Handset Sales
July 21, 2003 04:16:00 AM ET



By Jean Yoon and Kim Miyoung

SEOUL (Reuters) - Samsung Electronics Co Ltd, the world's third-largest mobile phone maker, on Monday shrugged off gloomy forecasts from rivals such as Nokia, saying it was still bullish for third-quarter handset sales.

Asked whether Samsung would maintain its target for the third quarter, Lee Ki Tae, president of Samsung's telecommunication network business, told Reuters: ``We expect the third-quarter handset sales to be strong on the back of our line-up of new models.''

Samsung, which has wooed consumers with sleek, folding mobiles incorporating color screens and cameras, said last week its third-quarter sales would rise to more than 13.2 million units from 12 million in the second quarter. The company's telecoms business accounts for about a third of its sales.

Analysts have said the forecast for higher sales was optimistic in a market that was showing few signs of improvement.

Samsung's rivals have painted a dismal picture for the third quarter. Finland's Nokia warned last week a soft dollar and consumers' reluctance to shell out for fancy phones would hurt sales and earnings, while Motorola Inc cut its forecasts in the face of intense competition for its mobile phones in China.

Nokia, the world's largest mobile maker, said it expected flat to lower handset sales in the third quarter before Christmas sales boost fourth-quarter sales.

Samsung had missed its sales target in the second quarter, hit by the impact of the SARS outbreak in China on handsets sales and increasing competition in the mid-range to high-end segment in the North American market.

Shares in Samsung, the country's biggest stock with a market value of $56 billion, closed up 0.74 percent at 407,000 won, while the broader market fell 0.84 percent.

``We believe Samsung is more upbeat than top rivals as it's dominant in high-end handsets, while competitors control the mid to lower-end market that's more crowded,'' said Chung Jae-yeol, an analyst at Goodmorning Shinhan Securities.

Lee also said the average price for its handsets would rise slightly in the third quarter from the second quarter.

``We expect the average selling price to edge up as we replace lower end models with high priced ones,'' Lee told Reuters on the sideline of a ceremony to launch its latest phones.

Samsung said last week its average selling price for the second quarter had risen slightly from the first, but did not give details.

Analysts estimated the average selling price stood at 233,000 won ($198) in the second quarter versus 231,000 won in the first.

Some analysts said the price could fall in the third quarter because the overseas markets were slow to pick up on more pricey handsets that are equipped with cameras and color display screens.

Samsung has more than doubled its global mobile share to 12 percent in the last two years, overtaking both Germany's Siemens AG and Sony Ericsson, and is now third-largest behind Motorola and Nokia

I guess I'm from the other camp. While I don't believe the contracts/rate agreement will be done before late Aug early Sept, and a release date perhaps as late as Oct, Nov I also would not bet against IDCC getting their due. Best case would be Monday. My expectations would be fall, worst case 2 qt 2004. Any of the 3 I'm comfortable with.

We have an on going working relationship with Nok right now. We have for some time. Nokia hasn't had a problem with companies that have been doing business with them. This isn't the only company that Nokia is /will be paying. While they're tough at the negotiations, that area was cleared up back in 99. The rates are a minor issue, we already have the contract. While I could mention several areas that could cause arbitration, I don't think it's likely.

The facts still remain the same.

Nokia HAS set money aside for this issue.
IDCC has released a firm "yep were getting it" statement from several directions.
The big boys have finally developed hearing and have nothing but nice things to say, mostly centered around Ericy and the rate finalization. What a surprise, 1/3 of a bill owed and the hearing perks right up.

There isn't a large advantage for Nok to fight it in arbitration, lose the good will between the companies, only to have to pay it 6 mo later. That’s not how business works. As long as IDCC doesn't get to firm with demands.

It also doesn't mean IDCC will get everything they want. I suspect the dollar amount paid could very well be lower. Not a lot lower, a little lower, but with a firm strategic partnership and plan going forward. Not for the next year, but for the next 10.

Nokia has been feeling the heat as of late, and they will need the strategic values offered by IDCC and IDCC' good will to fend off the others nipping at their heels, especially now that this is turning into a mature area where failures and short coming are no longer overlooked, that time has past.

Anyway, just an opinion.