the stocks went down because if A>L

with the claims

L again > A


don't you think coach ?

you said coach T :

This does not take into account the claims, derivatives, legal actions etc.


what will be the result of these claims, derivatives, legal actions on A/L future report ?


what's about interest since 2008 for the debtors ?
it should be 15-20 billions $


Did they spin off or not ? and where are we going to go if spin off in january ?

you was expecting a great christmas . Until now it is the opposite with only 0.133 $ for lehman drinving down all the preferred

someone konws when we will get the new MOR reporting asstes current liabilities ?

do you know such informations for others :

lehjq
lehpq
lehlq
lhhmq
lehcq
lehdq

and lehmq

thank you to give us those news : it is pretty interesting to know such owner's

when will we get the MOR ?

(assets/ liabilities )

for me the 4.4 billions + interests aren't in the A/L

if you look to lehman brothers, JPM froze 17 billions dollars
and they aren't in the A/L of lehman brothers which have only 15.7 billions $ actually

for wamu the same they have 4 billions $ in A/L but it isn't the 4.4 billions dollars frozen by JPM + interest

sorry but i read carrefully the document and the actual 4 billions dollars are different than the 4.4 billions from JPM

this is what i read

i don't think 4.4 billions are already priced in MOR

MOR released assets and liabilities, right ?

what is the MOR actually ?

Because it isn't 4 B but 4.4 B plus interest

in the MOR you have others numbers, it means the 4.4 B arent' in the MOR

if we got the 4.4 billions plus interests

what will be assets and liabilities for washington mutual ?

how long time do you think it will take ?

how can you compare two different companies ?

10 $ for lehjq : it should be fantastic but why

thank you for those informations :

i check for lehman brothers and wamuq

most people holding shares and not preferred



i'm scary to see the future of lehman brothers : it went down last week

if they spin off the company, what will happened for the commons, preferred, trust shares ?

i saw all of them will be stakeholders but i'm not sure about what i read. When this spin off should happened : i saw last time in january

someone know how many funds have bought the lehman stocks in their portfolios

it will be useful to know how many preferred, lehjq .... they bought and kept already

but they plan always to spin off the company ?

someone know how many funds have bought the lehman stocks in their portfolios

it will be useful to know how many preferred, lehjq .... they bought and kept already

why do you say all lehman should be higher ?

it is just 5 billions $ when liabilities are > 320 billions dollars

i have also a single question :

do you have a list how many investors have bought some lehman brothers ( stocks, trusts, preferred) ?

i think it will be interesting for this board to know if we are not alone to believe in a bright future

may be coach T can tell us where to get such informations

when they spoke about the debtors it is included all kind of debts : it means lehpq are included among the debtors

at the same time they are included in nol like stock lehman brothers

so if a new company is listed and gived to the debtors : trusts and preferred share are included in this deal

if i remember good they said mortgage worth 45 billions with 200 billions of real value for 100 billions of unrecovered debts

(debtors )

but for the last sentence i'm not sure may be i didn't remember good

if mortgage improve 50 % : it means 70 billions of actual value

is that correct ?

but whats about all the debtors which included also preferred trusts, A/C , i don't know how much will be their recovery

actually

if assets finally are higher than liabilities

we should be paid in full, don't you think ?

coleco give 36 $ 20 years go

so how much for lehman ?

if they spinnn off and with the nol it is different scenario i believe

coleco give 36 $ 20 years go

so how much for lehman ?

if they spinnn off and with the nol it is different scenario i believe

Agree with you. While the LEHKQ, LEHLQ, LEHNQ, and LHHMQ are called "subordinate," people mistake that for the legal term in bankruptcies. In the bankruptcy the term "subordinate" refers to an equity such as LEHMQ and all preferreds CONVERTIBLE INTO EQUITY. Anything to do with equities is legally "subordinate" because it's considered ownership in the company. So our "subordinate" debt isn't really legally "subordinate" and the preferred and common guys may have the surprise you refer to.

That doesn't mean they won't get anything. For instance, when Coleco went bankrupt 20 years ago, I received like $36 for what I paid $1000 for as a Q investment.

But after being involved in some Chapter 11s of some businesses I consulted for, I pretty much learned who gets paid and who doesn't. I believe that the unsecured notes, such as the Capital Trusts, will receive upwards of 10% on face. The Senior bonds may receive more. But don't pay attention to the prospectus that says they'll get paid first no matter what because the Courts always base it on percentages and they don't give zero to non-legally subordinated creditors. So it's not going to be, "Senior's get 80%, juniors get zero." Haven't ever seen a bankruptcy like that.

what's about the 1 trillions claims ?

sorry but i didn't understand the difference between claims and senior debtors.

what i have read is : lehman brothers should spinn off in two companies : all the debtor's shareholders included CT, T, Preferreds , will get stocks in the real estate and derivatives company. So it will be good for all categories of debts, may be with the Nol of 10 B, actuel shareholders of lehman will get some stocks too.

i don't see the balance sheet with all those claims : you said trillion of claims but balance sheet is only about 300 billions actually .

Also i don't understand why the spin off isn't already made, why we spoke only of claims ?

Also the A>L, is it possible with all those news claims ??

What is CDO markets coming from 60 % to 90 % actually ? is it means the spinn off will be better ? I saw 45 billions assets which can woth finally 200 billions.

But why senior bond stay low ? may be because of those claims i don't understand what does it means

if those claims worth between 30 % to 40 %, may be the senior bonds should trade at the same level : are they claims too ?

really i don't understand anything : claims CDO senior bonds derivatives . How move all the balance sheets ? are they assets or liabilities ?

Hope you could help me

i would like to know :

how are liabilities and assets actually ?

what will change in assets and liabilities after the 22 october ?

NEW YORK, Sept 14 (Reuters) - The trustee of holders of bankrupt Lehman Brothers' senior bonds said that the debt holders may be owed as much as $73 billion, after losing their investments when the bank filed for bankruptcy protection a year ago, according to court documents.

Wilmington Trust Company claims that holders of the senior debt of the failed bank are estimated to be owed between $49 billion and $73 billion.

In addition, noteholders may see payments on unpaid interest and costs and damages associated with Lehman's failure to repay the debt.

Lehman's estate is facing a slew of claims from creditors including bond holders, derivatives counterparties, states, towns and individuals ahead of a September 22 deadline.

Administrators of the London arm of Lehman Brothers said last month the claims it is handling against the collapsed Wall Street bank could total as much as $100 billion

dear coach tequila

i'm optimistic but realistic too

the SR bond are still low at 18 % despite all good news you give us each day

if i look to wamu, it is worthing about 500 millions dollars actually. If lehman was valued like wamu, we should be at 0.8 $

it isn't the case right now. So may be we don't understand good all news. Then SR bond still at 18 % despite CDO improve a lot and everybody believes A > L now.


Do you think lehman could exit quickly from chapter 11 ?
Can we obtain some TARP money ?
Because all the big bank give back tarp money so may be they could help lehman finally with tarp money and make them exit from chapter 11 to benefit to all the shareholders


What do you think about this idea ?

somebody said the spin off will take off the 200 billions debts

debtors will receive new stock for this new entity which would represent the real estate which can worth 400 billions but worth actually 45 billions

the question is for the shareholders, preferred, trustees

what will be the unsecured debt left after this spin off

what will be the activities left for lbhi

if they have 84 entities not in chapter 11, normally with only unsecured debt, the company should continue to exist and make profit

it will be interested to understand better that :

actually stocks and preferred seemed to be cheap in this perpspective of recovery without real estate and debt

if they create new entity for real estate, what's about the nol ?

you said shareholders have to get 50 % of this new entities

what 's meaning lbhi ?

when i look the noll document i see nol belongs to debtors because we are in chaper 11 ?

may be i'm wrong but i understood it was for the debtors to not buy more than 5 % (restrictive limitation only for them )

this is what i understood, but if you are right and i'm wrong, lehmq lehpq should go up a lot, it isn't the case actually

equities aren't safe because nol belongs to the debtors

what is the interest to get this stock ?

do you see a light at the end of the tunnel ?

what do you believe for usxp, scion ?

could you explain me your opinion on it

sorry but i din't understand the purpose of this message and the connection with usxp

is there any hope in this company ?

scion post very interesting messages, did he believe in a future for this company