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ID has been posting a billion in debt for a long time.
i remember the first time I saw it, it scared the crap out me.
I have never been able to track it down.
I think the correct answer is $20 million debt, but much more cash in hand.
Don't waste that cash on debt. Acquire Ballard, et al.
I got $s waiting for the mill announcement.
Hopefully, I can move it in before we cross .01
Might not be possible, becuase when this moves on mill news it is going to 5x fast.
5,000,000 shares?
That's almost 1% of the company.
Sure that wasn't a precoordinated trade/transfer of shares?
Otherwise, MM took that stop loss out and tore them up.
@ .00195
Big ouch
A billion in debt - doubtful
It would take $50 million a year to service that.
Their financials show that they actually have a positive interest expense of $398K for 2013.
Did they get a zero interest loan for a billion dollars?
This isn't very important IMO but just wondering
I hear Obama loves google and might stack the deck so google wins this
More than once Obama has said that companies that shelter money outside of the USA are bad
Google is sheltering tens of billions
Google good or bad in Obamas view?
Either way, I don't think he can impact these appeals
Lots of talk about MMs today
I have seen "FLPC is a POS" posted
My opinion is the MMs are POSs
In other news, at some point we should reverse split and that is not as bad as made out by some. It doesn't dilute your investment. I prefer to see reverse splits as the PPS is increasing, but we might not have that luxury since many will not invest in a sub penny even if a good news story is just a few months away.
Think about this. Even when FLPC is producing all out the revenue will probably not make this a dollar stock with the shares available. A reverse split will be beneficial at that point to get the PPS up to move us off the OTC and increase our investor pool and with that demand
We need demand now to stop the vicious cycle we are in. Very difficult to increase demand at .003. A 10 to 20 RS could be good right now.
I was wrong about that.
Volume up
PPS falls below support
???
persistent pessimistic view
.004 has been support for weeks and should continue to hold
It makes sense. Hyundai is a steel, industrial, manufacturing, shipping, and automotive company. Automobiles are a small part of what they do. JV was never about Hyundai cars on FC. It is about FC for Hyundai's "everything else". Want to say the potential is small? Then you need to do some DD on Hyundai
No it doesn't make sense to bash your own investment with pure negative conjecture. Calling it a POS just because the PPS is below your basis is a suicidal endeavor. Some of the posts today have decent arguments for and against the PR, but if all you got to say is POS and BOD are crooks then move on and/or STHU
Looking strong ...
I think I will pick up another 200,000 on Monday
here comes FIVE
Thanks JJ
You are exactly right!!
Nice to have an article about VRNG PPS potential, but it is inaccurate to the low side.
As stated here and in the article's comments the Google rate is not 3.5% it is 6.5%.
The article doesn't mention TYCO/ADT settlements. Even if the terms are confidential, if you are pricing the stock's potential you can't leave that out.
There is no mention of the number of patents in VRNG's porfolio.
That's important, because VRNG has the potential to leverage the Google royalties and ZTE settlement to pursue licensing more patents, which will give a multiple on the revenues.
With Google and ZTE, PPS can easily exceed 12 with potential to double even that PPS.
In my gut .006 more likely than .003. Bouncing on .004+ Support for weeks. We need volume
Nevermind
If you can't promote the company you are invested in to potential investors, then there will not be any interim demand for the shares and the PPS will hold or sink until the next milestones are reached (funding for mill, mill, production, profit).
"Hey, I am in a POS stock that is run by a bunch of crooks" is not a good sales pitch.
You think it is going to .003. Sell and rebuy there. That's over 40% increase when it bounces back to where it is now.
I don't think it is going to .003.
I think we have strong support at the current level. The PPS would be even higher if they were not diluting 50% of the weekly volume. Stop the diluting for a month. With those cheap shares out of the way demand will push this back to the .008 - .01 range without any news.
According to your inside information? really?
Did your insider tell you what the mill components will be?
If not, how did you determine the length of time to establish the mill without knowing the components?
We have 5 months to the end of the year.
Just about any mill can be established in 5 months.
The NDA suit was filed in the US which would be the first For VRNG against ZTE there. Can they get An injunction in the US with it? I don't know but it adds more leverage to the licensing battle.
You sound legit to me. 6 posts and fresh profile were suspicious.
I am just tired of the bashing and misinformation that is obviously coming from the short camp.
I do share many of your concerns.
We will have to see How well they can handle cash in the bank and revenue streams. Can they leverage and grow Without any history to go on I can't expect anything beyond 1x-3x.
But Maybe...
Some of these negative posts are just negative personalities and not really shorts.
But, I don't know why a long would bash his own investment.
nfp with 5 total posts?
I just want to make sure you are not sergfo talking to himself.
Anyway, I remember a recent post about excessive management compensation, but when I did my research it revealed that the poster was being deceptive in trying to state the total compensation for all executives was what each were making on the average.
Personally, after my DD, I do not see a problem with the executive compensation.
I think it is being raised as an issue by shorts now becuase they have very little else to hang their hats on.
Actually, I don't know if the Reli On fuel cells help with the forklift backlog, since Reli On cells are mainly used as diesel generator replacements.
The oncoming backlog is one of the reasons that PLUG acquired full cell designer/manufacturer ReliOn.
The other benefit of the acquistion was that PLUG now owns the 46 ReliOn fuel cell patents.
PLUG is approaching 200 fuel cell patents.
Stealing IP is evil
"Don't Be Evil"
the details of the Hyundai partnership will be announced soon. I think no later than mid-August
Why sell into .0045? Impatient?
There shouldn't be any shares available under .005
This morning I didn't think I could get any under .006, but I ain't complaining. You sell them down there and I will buy them.
The A/S is not going to 3 billion.
We do not need $10M to get the mill in place.
With the A/S at 1 billion there is still $1.5M @ .005
which is an undervalued PPS, but is happening because of the dilution.
I just hope we can keep the O/S under 800M which will not be easy.
And, like I said before, when we become profitable in 2015, PPS .25+ Reverse split 10 to 1 and get out of OTC market with a 2.50 PPS.
Desperation is all around, but PLUG doesn't reflect desperation.
So eager to short, even though this is going to pop.
You should play long now and hope for the overrun on the pop. Maybe to 14, then we switch and short it back down to 10.
Poof, another half million dollars.
low volume?
what? no one wants to buy at .006
Back to .005
time to load up
PPS being suppressed?
That's okay. At this point if management sneezes, we pop to 5.50.
I feel there are lots of rabbits in this hat.
Hyundai agreement only a few days away. We could double PPS in a snap
Isn't the GOOG appeal decision (part 1) about to drop?
I was thinking it might be before the 4th, but we are running out of days for that.
Not much of a rebuttal
Present me a stock that doesn't have an 'if'
It appears to me that the end of the downtrend was two weeks ago. We have had good support here. Not that here is a great place.
.004-.005
what is that afterhour trade? 8M shares?
I still hope that VRNG gets $1+ per handset. I don't know of anyone that has insight into what price VRNG is trying to license this for. Not even sure where the .80 estimate came from, but it sounds reasonable.
I presume that VRNG is also asking for $.80 per handset sold in the past using the Nokia technology.
ZTE handset sales
2011 - 12M
2012 - 30M
2013 - 40M
2014 (est) - 60M
2015 (est) - 80M
2016 (est) - 100M
So .80 for each handset 2011-2014Q2 would be $90M. Remove the Nokia split after the $22M is recovered and that is roughly $65M
Future revenues after nokia split
2014Q3&4 - $16M
2015 - $41M
2016 - $52M
$174M for 2011-2016
But, does the Nokia technology only apply to ZTE? Once we get a license agreement with ZTE, there is the potential that we tell Huawei, LG, Lenovo, HTC they need to pay the same license fee.
LG and Huawei are both rising in handset sales. Combined they had
43M in 2011, 58M in 2012, and 100M in 2013.
That would be another $100M for past licensing and over $200M in future licensing.
$300M for 2011-2016
for a total of almost $.5B from all three through 2016.
Just the Nokia patents have the potential to make this $19 PPS by end of 2015.
GOOG could put another $12 to $24 on top of that depending on how that appeals play out.
It is hard for me to find rationale for this to ever go below $3 PPS unless both GOOG and ZTE fail to happen (how unlikely is that).
I had previous thought $18 was a good target for the PPS, but now I see that $30+ is a real possibility with very little downside potential.
will the webcast be online for replay later?
ZTE estimates handset sales
2014 32M
2015 60M
2016 100M
I don't have ZTE estimates beyond that.
ZTE's plan was making low cost ~$100 handsets mainly to get into countries like India and increase market share. I can see $.75-$1.25 really cutting into their margin on cheap handsets. Recently, ZTE is wanting to start producing more expensive handsets. Hopefully, ZTE continues increasing their profits, so they can pay what they owe VRNG/Nokia.
If VRNG gets .80 per handset
(going forward and not include any retro payments),
then based on ZTE estimated handset sales, VRNG revenues will be
2014 (2nd half): 13M
2015 (after Nokia's cut): 32M
2016 (after Nokia's cut): 52M