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I would agree that it would be very costly and time consuming for a PD to test a bunch of different plates, however word spreads quickly.
Once NIJ certified IMO...there will be a lot more independent studies and information about the product...not to mention case studies from field incidents. Different reviews will most likely be conducted and IF one of those states the advantages of BORK armor compared to another then it could be huge.
I know someone mentioned weeks ago that there was rumor of a order for a large California order...possibly LAPD (don't qoute me).
IF LAPD or another reputable agency did order the armor it could be beneficial. Many Law Enforcement magazines always write things such as "approved by the LAPD" or "used by LAPD SWAT"...
I agree that BORK may not be able to state "our armor is actually level 4" but I do think the demos, other studies, and amazed customers will do the trick by spreading the word.
"I am waiting to see what the specs are on this FAT BOY...how heavy, how thick, and how much? THOSE are now my new big 3? Without those who cares about the others.
Edge...I have posted pictures and specs from the demo and have wrote them on this board numerous times. Please refer to pictures and specs posted before for the information.
Everyone keeps complaining about this level III and Level IV issue. Let me put it this way. Just because it is rated at a certain level does not mean squat...and is like everything else in this world. Something may have the same rating or classification as something else but the product can be better then the other...am I wrong?
Would you rather have a level III vest that easily classifies to a higher level protection (not to mention the explosive/bomb protection) that will take over 50+ rounds with no shatter, spall, or richochet
or
have a different level III vest that can easily crack after a few rounds and cause other potential damage from shatter, spall, or richochets and offers no explosive protection.
Hope you get the point...just because there are other level III vests out there... IMHO bork beats the competition by far right now. Just because it is more expensive...if it is going to save a life or lives for that matter, I would definetly go with the better product just like anything else. Also, with this being such a new material I am sure the price will come down in time.
Stay long...good things are coming.
Looks like JB has some experienced and intelligent individuals working for him. After looking at the pictures on facebook and reading the captions...I was able to do a little research and get more information for one of the individuals that worked with the demo crew at Ft. Bragg.
Here is some information on Robert Goodner.
http://dps.alabama.gov/Home/wfDirectorDetail.aspx?ID=fbc33b1b-1ea4-4073-9cd0-95380aa9fd68
Older article...but looks like Goodner has a invention of his own. CHASE stretcher rescue system (Casualty Hasty Available Stretcher Equipment)
http://www.allbusiness.com/crime-law-enforcement-corrections/law-police-forces/15452075-1.html
Bowser
According to the new PR...looks like Bourque will be having their "fatboy" armor tested at Oregon Ballistics Laboratories to proceed in the NIJ cert process.
Here is a link to their website if you want to check it out.
http://www.oregonbl.com/
Interesting Article/Video found on Armorreport.com...
I know this pertains to another company, but someone mentioned this before and would make good PR down the road...especially for the vehicle armor.
Maybe JB should try this with this armor...might attract a few investors and make others feel more at ease with their investment. From what I witnessed, I know JB wouldn't have a scrach on him after a test like this.
http://jalopnik.com/5836525/this-is-what-its-like-to-be-shot-at-with-an-ak+47
Sorry KZ for the off topic post...but it was just getting to me. Yes slick I completely agree on the tactics certain people use on this board to try and benefit themselves. Rock... I guess we will see tomorrow what happens, but I do think there may be some unhappy individuals that will sell on the fact that the level cert did not meet their expectations.
Slick...
looks like the demo is next week.
http://www.soldierequipmentexpo.com/Event.aspx?id=479018
The event runs from August 30 - September 1st. From the IDGA website it says the live fire demos will be hosted on September 1st (3rd day of expo/conference). Under the Exhibtion tab on site click on Live Fire Day Exhibitors and Bourque is 1 out of 9 companies listed doing a live demo. Hopefully, all goes as planned and it should be a good comparison to how their armor holds up to the competition.
LOL...you crack me up Max. I have my diaper depends ready to go along with my glass of Kool-Aid to sip on. Holding Long.
How is that silly?...I can say first hand I held it in my hands and then watched it get shot at and blown up by c4 and grenades. I do know I was holding kryron, but I don't know the ingredients or what makes it up...that is part of the trade secret I guess. I do know it performed very well to anything else I have seen.
Why do you ask so many silly questions?...if you don't believe then either go witness for yourself or don't believe or believe based on other information people provide and your own DD.
There are a lot of things that are real that you use on a daily basis that I am sure you don't know EVERYTHING about. I don't get why you put your questions on this board if you WON'T believe until the NIJ certification comes. If that is the case then you can stop wasting your time and have some patience like the rest of us.
I guess in the mean time...just continue to check http://www.justnet.org/pages/BallisticCPL.aspx for your answer.
Because I held it in my hands mdrts...enough said.
Hey KZ...I think slick is reffering to this article by Arizona Daily Star.
http://azstarnet.com/business/local/article_efe4a100-eeed-5555-a8eb-f768f6cc886e.html
Tucson Tech: His body armor concept could one day hit market
John Bourque believes he's onto something big. Really big.
Now he just has to convince the rest of the world.
The carpenter-turned-inventor says his Tucson company's patented nano- technology can turn aluminum into a nearly impenetrable, lightweight armor for bodies and vehicles.
The technology - with the sci-fi name of Kryron - also can create ultra-conductive and corrosion-resistant wire and electrical components, or help form tough metal plating on plastics and other non-metals, says Bourque, founder and CEO of Bourque Industries Inc.
But it's one thing to have a great idea; it's quite another to bring it successfully to market.
After eight years in research development, Bourque is trying to break into production of its first commercial products, a line of body armor for soldiers, police and security, and armor plate for vehicles.
Bourque is finalizing certification of its aluminum alloy body armor under national standards and awaiting key testing by the Army, aiming to start production of its first product line in Tucson.
A self-described "military kid" whose father was a missile technician, Bourque believes his armor is superior to the ceramic-based plate that is the current Army standard.
"All we want to do is create jobs and save lives … regardless, the money will come," said Bourque, who frequently uses language that can be described as more than a little salty. "People are dying from crappy body armor."
The unapologetically brash Bourque came up with the idea for what eventually became Kryron around 2003, as a way to plate plastics.
Bourque, 47, was a union carpenter until a fall in 2002 during a job at Denver International Airport robbed him of the balance he needed to do his job. He came to Tucson after marrying his wife, a Tucson native and retired military member, in 2000.
He was running a local satellite TV and scooter shop near downtown when he set about to find a way to chrome-plate plastics and rubber.
Bourque, who holds no technical degrees, later recognized that his method for combining carbon nanotubes - tubelike molecular structures - could create alloys with super strength and conductivity.
"I just knew what would work and what wouldn't work. I don't have anybody telling me 'no,' engineers telling me, 'you can't do that,' " Bourque said as he dragged on a cigarette during an interview at the company's nondescript offices and shop in an industrial park on East 44th Street.
Working with local companies, including nanotube vendor MER Corp., Bourque initially began experimenting with different alloys to develop highly conductive, corrosion-resistant anodes for an electrical copper-extraction process called electrowinning.
Realizing the strength the Kryron process could bring to metals, he focused on developing an aluminum alloy for body armor. He came up with armor using Kryronized aluminum as a lightweight core, with layers of ballistic fabric to help catch bullet fragments.
Bourque initially wanted to license the technology to a major armor maker, such as BAE Systems, and focus his efforts on developing mining and electrical products.
But the big companies shut him down.
"They pretty much told me to (get lost)," he said, actually using unprintable language.
Bourque decided to try to develop the armor on his own, showing off the technology to police SWAT departments in live-fire demonstrations filmed by local TV news crews in Washington and Tucson.
The videos show the Kryron armor taking high-powered rifle and pistol rounds without allowing penetration.
While ceramic armor tends to break with the first shot, Bourque's Terminator armor can withstand repeated hits with large-caliber, high-velocity bullets, Bourque said. It also reduces spall, or flying bullet fragments, and ricochet, Bourque said.
Looking to get his product to market, Bourque sought advice from Mayor Bob Walkup, a retired Raytheon engineer and an advocate of high-tech development.
Walkup, who still does the occasional consulting job, said he was approached by Bourque about a year and a half ago and agreed to study the product and potential markets.
In his final report, Walkup said he concluded that Bourque needed to get formal certification under the National Institute of Justice 2006 standards, the prevailing standard for body armor.
Walkup said he examined Bourque's alloy armor but didn't witness any live-fire tests - partly because he didn't want to seem to be endorsing the product as mayor - or review any test data.
"If it's true that he's developed a lightweight, high ballistic coefficient material, then the world's waiting for that," Walkup said. "But you've got to have the bug - you've got to have the thing that says it's real."
Bourque said the company is now in its second round of trying get that NIJ certification, which costs about $180,000.
Bourque won his first patent last August and two more in January. He expects to be issued two more patents soon, with more in process.
In September, Bourque merged his company with Eloy-based Global Platinum + Gold Inc., a metals extraction firm whose stock was traded over the counter.
Bourque is the majority owner of the merged company Bourque Industries, which became Global's new name. The company's pink-sheet stock closed at $1.80 per share last week and has been as low as 65 cents and as high as $3.89 in the past year.
The company recently reported a successful "proof of concept" test and is awaiting testing by the Army Research Laboratory in Aberdeen, Md.
The market for body armor is big - estimated at nearly $2 billion annually overall for military and police. The U.S. Army was expected to buy $6 billion worth of body armor and related products from 2009 through 2015.
But it's also a crowded market, with major competitors including defense giant BAE Systems supplying much of the ceramic military armor and dozens, if not hundreds, of smaller companies focused mainly on the police tactical market.
That doesn't deter Bourque, who plans to open a plant in Tucson to produce the body armor.
"One thing about a bullet: It doesn't lie - you either stop it or you don't," Bourque said. "And you only get one shot in this industry, so you better do it right."
Read more: http://azstarnet.com/business/local/article_efe4a100-eeed-5555-a8eb-f768f6cc886e.html#ixzz1VbXxXJVf
Hey Slick I was at the demo...the "thinline" 4x8 insert/strike plate is only 1 lb 3oz. It is very light and obviously thin...hence the name. KZ posted the pics of each of the plates that I took front/back which shows the current weight for each of the 4 plates that was there.
I am unsure about the "boat armor" specs...due to the fact that JB stated that it was the first day that they tested it. FYI though, the boat armor custom plate they shot...was struck with approx 20-23 308 rounds and 223 rounds and nothing penetrated. You can see the defamation from one of the pics posted.
Hope that helps out a little
Regards,
Bowser
Has anyone heard any update on the military helmet they have created or have been testing? I meant to ask at the demo last week, but it slipped my mind.
Sounds good...keep me informed PWron. The reps seemed interested in the material at the demo IMO.
Can't remember who was asking about the medical device side of Bork...but I did some research today. Here is the website of a company (structure medical) that was present at the demonstration the other day. I mentioned it briefly in my post, but you can gather some good info from the site.
http://www.structuremedical.com/overview.htm
...they had 3 or 4 reps at the demonstration
LOL KZ...the title and pay are sufficient. I thank you for all the hard work and time you put into this board. We will all continue to benefit if each and everyone of us can chip in a little and provide something to this board. There seems to be a lot of members following this board with all different backgrounds and careers and who are willing to provide their time and service to help the company out also. Like you said or someone else before it is like a puzzle and the pieces are starting to come together.
All I ask for payment, down the road, is some minty green koolaid.
Bork On!...hopefully we get some more good news soon.
Pacco my friend...do you read any of the information that users post on this board? Almost everyone of those questions can be answered from reading this board...especially the very lengthy email I just wrote the other day. KZ also puts a lot of time into this board and has everything very organized in the Ibox. I posted all the pictures and specs for a reason.
1- what is the size, especially the thickness? Answer: 10x12...looks at the pictures posted and you can see the thickness.
2- what is the weight ? Answer: 7 lbs 13 oz
3- is it at all curved? Single curve or double curve? Answer: Look at pictures you can see shape.
4- approximately how many grams of double wall(?) nano per plate? ....Don't know
5- approximate cost per plate? In my post, JB stated to reporter cost of plates ranges from 895 to 400. Assumption is made that Fat Boy plate is the highest cost since it is largest plate and offers most protection.
6- will the "fat boy" meet or exceed NIJ level IV specs when issued? Don't know for sure...but if it stops 50 Cal AP rounds (which I witnessed) then refer to the posts that KZ and Got Milk have posted about levels of protection and you can read for yourself.
KZ and the rest...here are some of the pictures from yesterday. PB had a lot of good ones he posted, however these are to prove the specs (weight and size) of each of the 4 plates present at the demo.
http://imageshack.us/g/594/p1011916.jpg/
hope the link works.
Regards,
Bowser
Hey J11...I heard the name Christine Johanson from someone else at the demo, but really did not get into the details. She seemed very intelligent and a good person with contacts to have on the Bork team.
Completely agree with you...the staff did a awesome job and things will need to be fine tuned/changed in the future, but that is the way for everything (hopefully you can help like you mentioned). JB knows what he is doing and has a great product, just thought a very good public speaker would be an advantage to the team, once the company grows a little.
Andrew Myers seemed on the ball and a great guy. He really looked like he was working hard and keeping everything on track. IMO someone to keep around.
Thanks KZ, J11, Mdb1 and the rest. I tried to write up the most descriptive and factual post as possible of what I observed. It was truly incredible to see first hand and a once in a lifetime experience.
Mdb1 thank you for answering my question! it was driving me crazy. The white stuff was "spectra". The spectra is the stuff that almost acts like a spider web or netting and catches the flat fragments if they do penetrate the kryron sheet on the inside of the plate.
Tonight, I will make sure to post my pictures... which include all verification of sizes and weights of the plates.
Go BORK!
Observations from today’s Bourque demonstration in Naples 8- 10-11...sorry for the delay, but I had to work after.
Pistonbones observations were very accurate, so I won’t rehash all of his observations but I have some details that might be relevant. There are a lot of details and I tried to take quite a few notes so this will probably be a long message.
Here we go:
Demonstration started at 10:30 am local, about 1.5 hrs late. JB and management apologized. JB vaguely stated that they were having a “rough week” because they were unable to finish/complete their testing for Kryron rotor blades/ helicopter parts. He stated to the degree that they had missed a deadline or testing phase because of the happenings in Afghanistan. IMO, he seemed a little frustrated. After the quick introduction, JB advised that he did not like to talk about his product and he would rather demonstrate its abilities. Bork’s management team and JB arrived in a red Dodge Viper, a black Mercedes sedan and a black stretch limousine. Couldn't see who got out of which.
There were about 60-90 in attendance including the Florida agencies that PB mentioned, but also including Florida Wildlife Commission members and a small group of what I thought to be Hispanic speaking men , who arrived with Bourque, and who I assumed were the expected Columbians or South Americans. I can't be sure, just an observation…. an assumption.
There were also several representatives from a company called Structure Medical of Naples, they are a manufacturer of prosthetic medical devices (knees , etc.) . They seemed interested in Kryron for the obvious reasons...a metal that never wears out, is not brittle, corrosion resistant, etc. The specialized boat builder was specifically interested in bulletproof engine armor for his craft, there was quite a lot of testing at the demo related to him trying to determine which of the (4) types of Kryron plates would best work for him. Wanted 50 cal. and .308 protection for his application. He stated at one point that his boats kept getting shot up by 50 cal. He was impressed, and JB indicated he was working with him in Florida to develop the correct plating. JB had a couple different “custom” thickness plates that they tested for the boat builder. Towards the end of the demo, JB and the boat builder agreed to meet up before JB departed his business trip to look and inspect his boat.
NBC2, local Naples affiliate was there and has already aired a segment tonight…posted by George The Greek. They shot continuous video almost the entire time. Bourque had arranged for a slow motion video to be shot at the demo (capture the ballistic strikes), however they were unable to do it because of the weather. I overheard Andrew Myers talking to one of the Hispanic men...Andrew said they did not want to risk damaging the camera. I did notice that one of the Hispanic guests had their own camera. Andrew stated to him that they would wait 2 weeks? I did notice that the one Hispanic guest had his own high quality camera he was using….therefore there should be a lot of video documentation.
For those who have been asking….I observed 4 different types of plates, not including the custom ones that JB showed/demoed for the boat builder.
(4) different Bourque plates were tested: I'll try to be specific
A) Plate 1 : Definitely the Thinline model. Per specs written on the plate it was 4" x 8" and weighed 1 lb 3 oz. It was VERY thin. Hazarding a guess at maybe 1/4" ?
B) Plate 2; No name : 6 3/4" x 9 1/8" weight 2 lb 4 oz. Guessing thickness at 3/8" . Again .. a guess.
C) Plate 3: No name : 5" x 9" 2 lbs . 7 oz , maybe 1/2 thick
D) Plate 4: Definitely Fat Boy: 10" x 12" , 7 lbs. 13 oz quite thick, wish I'd had a tape measure
I have photos of all , with their markings reflecting the above.
The demo:
Started with 6 officers with their own handguns shooting the Thin Line plate from close range (approx. 5-10 feet). Various caliber ammo… 130 shots total in a matter seconds . No penetration to Kryron plate. From my observations…the plate looked destroyed and all of the fiberglass/material was coming out of the strike plate. However, when they showed the plate after the actual Kryron plate on the inside was bent, but there was NO penetration. IMO I do not know any other thin plates that would handle such a beating.
Next: Shot Plates 2 and 3 with AK-47 and a .308 rifle (don’t know specific type of rifle) . A single shot first with minor "defamation" to back side. Zero penetration.
Next: Fat Boy shot with 50 cal. AP round. Rifle was a Armorlite and was fired by a Collier SWAT member at a distance of 50 feet away. Prior to shooting the Fat Boy plate, JB showed that the 50 Cal round was legit. Everyone had a chance to check it out, (used magnets) he said he had heard all the rumors about "BS" bullets etc. wanted no one to question the genuineness of the ammo.
Prior to shooting the Fat Boy they shot a regular thick steel plate with Non AP (FMJ 50 Cal round) to show the effects. Bullet went right thru like butter.
After, they shot the Fat Boy with the 50 cal AP round , stopped it cold. There was minor defamation to the back side, but this material is very different, it's "layered" with fiberglass thread like material that is soft on the defamation side, you can push it back in with your finger, and it can be shot again......pretty unbelievable. Bullets simply smash into it and can be peeled off/fall off afterward. While doing the demo, they put a steel plate in front of the Fat Boy plate to simulate the body of a vehicle.
Next up : Grenade test. Placed a grenade directly next to THE SAME shot up Fat Boy plate ,and then placed a steel plate next to it, making kind of a grenade "sandwich" buried it kind of shallow, and detonated it. There was no additional damage to the Fat Boy, only the material/fabric on outside of plate showed damage (guessing from heat)…however the plate was completely intact. This shows somewhat in PB's picks on IHub. Grenade was supplied by the Collier bomb squad.
Next: Took the same shot up, blown up Fat Boy plate and taped it into another sandwich with a Collier supplied 8lb. Pipe Bomb C-4 explosive. Before detonating the bomb…the bomb squad members stated that a C-4 explosive this size would level a house. They buried it again, how deep, couldn't tell. Had us all move back approx. 100- 200 yards. Detonated it, blew the Fat Boy many feet in air, possibly 60-100 ft high , not sure. I have a video of it, which I'll post tomorrow. After all the debris settled we were able to look at the plate. Upon initial observation, the plate looked completely destroyed, however JB showed us the actual Kryron plate on the inside. The plate was bent up, but there was NO PENETRATION and it was very much intact. Again, almost unbelievable unless you'd witnessed it. JB explained that was the way the plate worked and the fiberglass type material absorbed a lot of the force. You have to remember that using this C4 is a worse case scenario with the bomb directly on the armor. You also have to remember that this plate had been shot with a 50 cal AP round and a grenade detonated on top of it before this test….who knows how it would have withstood the C4 if it was a new plate.
While conducting a the C4 pipe bomb demo….i forgot to mention that they used a current piece of helicopter armor along with the fat boy plate. After the test, the ceramic/Kevlar helicopter armor was completely destroyed and melted. Along with what PB said, the pipe bomb had nails that were inside to try and create more damage to the armor.
Finally, a 2nd Fat Boy plate was shot with (approx 23) .308 rounds and ( approx 20) .223 rounds. Results were completely successful, no penetration. There was defamation, however the soft white fiberglass material could be pushed back in easily with your hand and the plate could be shot again. While observing the plates, JB did say the name of the white fiberglass material…but I cannot remember the name…it was something like (strife,strafe...sife)? Maybe somebody who knows about ballistics can clarify this. As I have mentioned several times, it kind of looked like fiberglass or that fake spider web stuff you can buy at Halloween time to decorate. It seemed that if the bullets did pass through the kryaluminum plate on the inside….the bullet was flattened and then caught in the white web material.
Other observations:
No vehicles or helicopters there , but I think I missed the part about the helicopter Kryron test part being taped into one of the sandwiches and being blown up that Pistonbone mentioned. Rep. from SRATS was there as PB mentioned.
A very intelligent woman was in attendance. From my understanding she is working for Bourque or helping in some way. If I understood correctly, she has a lot of experience with the government/military. From a few conversations I heard, she is the inventor of some type of laser, that, (I'm not making this up) can cut wire and metal from far distances and the US military is apparently interested or have purchased the laser already. From what I heard, the laser may be used on robots to detonate, dismantle, or destroy bombs, keeping bomb squad members safe….I can verify who she is and I am hoping maybe somebody on this board has some further information about her they maybe able to share. As I said before, the information came from over hearing a conversation at the demo.
Re: NIJ certification, John Bourque's only mention was that it was taking so long because of the unique nature of Kryron , but mentioned things were "happening fast". Nothing more.....sorry.
The NBC2 news guy asked about pricing of the plates. JB said that pricing would range from $400 to $895 , assuming he meant from the Thinline up to the FatBoy , with the other 2 plates being inbetween somewhere.
The demo ended sometime between 1-2 pm, Bourque and crew said they were leaving Saturday to go back out West...and I believe they are going to Las Vegas.
JB also mentioned that his material is recyclable
Observations: What I saw was real. I'm in the amazed category, I would purchase today if possible, or sooner. I think the company is rough around the edges. As mentioned before they are probably operating very thin coming out of the gate until they ramp up orders and production. They will need more polished presentations as they progress, this one was very informal , kind of a good ole boy shoot. JB will need polished marketing to make this company go to the next 10 levels. BUT the product is what it is......I dont think this could be faked and I know it wasn’t. One thing I think for improvement next time, would be for someone (good spokesperson) to describe everything in detail what is going on at the event. I am someone with a intermediate knowledge of ballistics and firearms, however there seemed to be others present that did not have a lot of knowledge. Having someone explain things in more detail would have been helpful IMO.
Oh and the BBQ was excellent.
Final assessment : Unbelievable product, no one left unaffected by what they saw IMO. I agree with PB, orders from the agencies there are likely. Again , an opinion.
I probably left out lots that I already forgot. I am long BORK as are many of my family members. I will try and see if I can get my pictures and videos up sometime tomorrow.
Regards,
Bowser
P.S. - May the bork be with you and get ready to drink some more koolaid. I will look through my notes and if i remember anything else, I will make sure to post promptly.
FYI...
Looks like Bourque did a little update to their website. They have a couple new videos posted (slow motion and a longer version of KOMO news from Seattle news broadcast).
Click Media...then multi media then online videos and video page should show.
Doesn't look like anything else is new besides the videos.
Hey KZ...
I saw in the I-box above that you have the link with article for the Collier County S.O. Demo back in March, but I did not see the video attached. (Maybe I overlooked it)....anyhow, I was going through all my older videos and articles and found the link to the the WINK news coverage that day.
http://www.winknews.com/Local-Florida/2011-03-17/Collier-Sheriffs-test-new-technologies-to-keep-them-safe
If I overlooked it above, my apologies. Just thought another video might be beneficial to new investors as the video is somewhat difficult to locate on internet.
Thanks,
Bowser
3wishes or does anyone else know any of the details yet for the Demonstration in Naples? I am in the Naples area and would love to attend the demonstration if possible. Through a couple of sources...I heard it is going to be on August 10th, but do not know any other details at the moment. If anyone has any other info, please let me know.
Posted by user xxx3575 on Yahoo Finance Message board this morning....
"I have a creditable source that tells me the J-6 Test results have passed.. Paperwork is being finalized...Kryon flew threw the process with flying colors. Will be sending out early next week fed/ex. I imagine bork will anounce mid to late next week. Also caveot paper work finalized. This is good news. I am buying more on monday am."
Don't know how credible this user is and if they are just trying to pump it up. Has anyone else heard this through their sources? Some members on this board usually get information like this ahead of time.
Just Posted on Bourque's Facebook Page....
what is the NIJ cert and it's significance?
From Bourque Ind. - The National Institute of Justice certification for our armor will allow us to sell to law enforcement. We've already proven that we exceed the highest standard, NIJ-06, in official testing. But a technicality lead us to have to refile our paperwork.
what is the shortest time nij cert?
From Bourque Ind. - it's really impossible to say. Thanks for everyone's interest in this important issue. The process will play out in the next couple months, maybe sooner. We will make announcements at important milestones.
Thanks JonE...yes if you could post your email too we can forward you ours that way we don't clog up the message board with everyones email addresses. Bowser
Hey John...do you have a email address that you can post on board so we can send you a email. For those of us that don't have the upgraded membership we can not PM you therefore many of us will have to post our emails on the public board. Don't think KZMike will be happy and it is probably against board rules. Thanks and have a great weekend and Happy 4th. Bowser
Posted directly on Chesapeake Testing under Accreditations Tab.
http://www.chesapeaketesting.com/downloads/letters/Chesapeake_NIJ%20approved%20laboratory_030111.pdf
Home Page for Chesapeak Testing:
http://www.chesapeaketesting.com/home.html
According to the letter... the Chesapeake facility is a NIJ approved labratory to conduct compliance testing. This is what the letter reads...direct link posted above.
We have completed our review of your application for continued participation in the NIJ compliance testing program as an
NIJ-approved laboratory. We are pleased to inform you that your laboratory has been renewed as an NIJ-approved
laboratory to conduct compliance testing of ballistic resistant body armor. As an NIJ-approved laboratory, you are
authorized to conduct testing in accordance with NIJ Standard-0101.06, Ballistic Resistance of Body Armor.
All terms and conditions of approval noted in your signed Compliance Testing Program (CTP) Laboratory Application and
Agreement are in effect and will remain so unless otherwise modified in writing by NIJ. As of the date of this
correspondence, your laboratory will be added to the list of NIJ-approved laboratories that is made available at
http://ww.justnet.org.
If they are a approved labratory and the compliance testing has been complete and forwarded to NIJ I am thinking we may hear back very soon once it is forwarded to NIJ and final decision is made.
What is everyone else take/opinion on this?
Did not know if anyone posted this article yet today...don't think I saw it on board. Sorry if re-posted.
New article posted on PoliceOne.com today (June 6,2011) couple hours ago.
http://www.policeone.com/police-products/body-armor/articles/3772320-Your-next-body-armor-might-be-made-of-Kryron/
June 06, 2011
Your next body armor might be made of Kryron
Carbon nanotubes haven’t yet made it into large-scale fabrication because the methods for developing long strands of the nanotubes have proven difficult to master
Through the years, body armor materials have taken on many odd names: Kevlar, Twaron, Dyneema, and Spectra, among others. The newest material, still undergoing testing, is called Kryron. It’s claimed to offer a protection-to-weight ratio higher than anything presently on the market, but it’s the market itself that might keep this product out of your hands.
Kryron is the invention of a tradesman inventor named John Borque (who has founded a company called Borque Industries). Borque was a union carpenter until he suffered an injury that affected his balance and made it unsafe for him to be on a job site. He opened a small business in Tucson, AZ and started researching methods for chrome-plating plastics and rubber.
It was during this research that he learned about carbon nanotubes. This relatively new material is one of the strongest substances on earth, and it’s all but completely resistant to chemical and UV light degradation. In fact, one of the problems associated with carbon nanotube material is what to do with it when you’re done using it — it’s all but impossible to break down. Carbon nanotubes haven’t yet made it into large-scale fabrication because the methods for developing long strands of the nanotubes have proven difficult to master.
Borque was working with carbon nanotube technology to produce anodes for a metal deposition process called “electrowinning.” Electrowinning can be used to coat materials with pure metals such as aluminum and copper. It was through this research he learned to produce an aluminum alloy he patented, called Kryron.
Kryron is a rigid material suitable for helmets and hard inserts for body armor packages. In a law enforcement application, it would probably be combined with a conventional ballistically-resistant material such as Kevlar or Dyneema fiber. Unlike the ceramic inserts typically used to boost the resistance of body armor to projectiles, Kryron does not fragment or spall when struck with a high-velocity projectile. It is also lighter than ceramic material providing a comparable level of protection.
Borque has field-tested a military-style helmet made of Kryron against rifle and pistol rounds typically encountered on the battlefield, and had zero penetration. Local Tucson news outlets covered the demonstrations and are hopeful that Borque Industries is going to be the source of new jobs in the area. The material is now undergoing evaluation by the National Institute of Justice (NIJ), a process that costs around $180,000. If that proves successful, the way will be clear for Borque Industries’ products to reach the police marketplace.
NIJ approval doesn’t necessarily guarantee success in the marketplace. The 800 lb. gorilla in the body armor market is BAE Systems, which owns the products and companies that used to have names like Second Chance, American Body Armor, Monadnock, and others you may have heard of (most of BAE Systems’ police products are sold under the Safariland brand name). Borque approached BAE Systems with his new material, and, according to the Arizona Daily Star, “‘They pretty much told me to (get lost),’ he said, actually using unprintable language.”
If Kryron passes the NIJ tests, BAE Systems might change their tune, or another manufacturer could buy or license the technology. If not, it will be difficult at best for Borque to succeed, even with a superior product. It’s difficult and expensive to bring new tech to the law enforcement marketplace, no matter how good your wares might be. I, for one, wish him the best of luck.
KZMike and JOHN11...I heard it through the PD I work at...once again by word of mouth, so I can never confirm if it is true or not. 90% of the things I have heard though over the last months have come true or have been very close. I did not post it on this board until I saw that the other user on Yahoo Finance had posted it also. I will see what else I can dig up or find out and let you know. Thanks for the information and reply John ...if you were confirming it. Have a great weekend. Bowser.
Posted by milberg on Yahoo Finance Message Board.
"Anyone here that the CEO and crew were at the Pentagon this week?"
Just seeing if anyone had heard that news or rumor...
chikimba2...I heard the rumor through many people that they were thinking of opening a facility of some sort in Florida. I don't know any specific locations and cannot verify the information...just a rumor at this point. Where did you hear the information from?
problem with account...testing