Observations from today’s Bourque demonstration in Naples 8- 10-11...sorry for the delay, but I had to work after.
Pistonbones observations were very accurate, so I won’t rehash all of his observations but I have some details that might be relevant. There are a lot of details and I tried to take quite a few notes so this will probably be a long message.
Here we go:
Demonstration started at 10:30 am local, about 1.5 hrs late. JB and management apologized. JB vaguely stated that they were having a “rough week” because they were unable to finish/complete their testing for Kryron rotor blades/ helicopter parts. He stated to the degree that they had missed a deadline or testing phase because of the happenings in Afghanistan. IMO, he seemed a little frustrated. After the quick introduction, JB advised that he did not like to talk about his product and he would rather demonstrate its abilities. Bork’s management team and JB arrived in a red Dodge Viper, a black Mercedes sedan and a black stretch limousine. Couldn't see who got out of which.
There were about 60-90 in attendance including the Florida agencies that PB mentioned, but also including Florida Wildlife Commission members and a small group of what I thought to be Hispanic speaking men , who arrived with Bourque, and who I assumed were the expected Columbians or South Americans. I can't be sure, just an observation…. an assumption.
There were also several representatives from a company called Structure Medical of Naples, they are a manufacturer of prosthetic medical devices (knees , etc.) . They seemed interested in Kryron for the obvious reasons...a metal that never wears out, is not brittle, corrosion resistant, etc. The specialized boat builder was specifically interested in bulletproof engine armor for his craft, there was quite a lot of testing at the demo related to him trying to determine which of the (4) types of Kryron plates would best work for him. Wanted 50 cal. and .308 protection for his application. He stated at one point that his boats kept getting shot up by 50 cal. He was impressed, and JB indicated he was working with him in Florida to develop the correct plating. JB had a couple different “custom” thickness plates that they tested for the boat builder. Towards the end of the demo, JB and the boat builder agreed to meet up before JB departed his business trip to look and inspect his boat.
NBC2, local Naples affiliate was there and has already aired a segment tonight…posted by George The Greek. They shot continuous video almost the entire time. Bourque had arranged for a slow motion video to be shot at the demo (capture the ballistic strikes), however they were unable to do it because of the weather. I overheard Andrew Myers talking to one of the Hispanic men...Andrew said they did not want to risk damaging the camera. I did notice that one of the Hispanic guests had their own camera. Andrew stated to him that they would wait 2 weeks? I did notice that the one Hispanic guest had his own high quality camera he was using….therefore there should be a lot of video documentation.
For those who have been asking….I observed 4 different types of plates, not including the custom ones that JB showed/demoed for the boat builder.
(4) different Bourque plates were tested: I'll try to be specific
A) Plate 1 : Definitely the Thinline model. Per specs written on the plate it was 4" x 8" and weighed 1 lb 3 oz. It was VERY thin. Hazarding a guess at maybe 1/4" ?
B) Plate 2; No name : 6 3/4" x 9 1/8" weight 2 lb 4 oz. Guessing thickness at 3/8" . Again .. a guess.
C) Plate 3: No name : 5" x 9" 2 lbs . 7 oz , maybe 1/2 thick
D) Plate 4: Definitely Fat Boy: 10" x 12" , 7 lbs. 13 oz quite thick, wish I'd had a tape measure
I have photos of all , with their markings reflecting the above.
The demo:
Started with 6 officers with their own handguns shooting the Thin Line plate from close range (approx. 5-10 feet). Various caliber ammo… 130 shots total in a matter seconds . No penetration to Kryron plate. From my observations…the plate looked destroyed and all of the fiberglass/material was coming out of the strike plate. However, when they showed the plate after the actual Kryron plate on the inside was bent, but there was NO penetration. IMO I do not know any other thin plates that would handle such a beating.
Next: Shot Plates 2 and 3 with AK-47 and a .308 rifle (don’t know specific type of rifle) . A single shot first with minor "defamation" to back side. Zero penetration.
Next: Fat Boy shot with 50 cal. AP round. Rifle was a Armorlite and was fired by a Collier SWAT member at a distance of 50 feet away. Prior to shooting the Fat Boy plate, JB showed that the 50 Cal round was legit. Everyone had a chance to check it out, (used magnets) he said he had heard all the rumors about "BS" bullets etc. wanted no one to question the genuineness of the ammo.
Prior to shooting the Fat Boy they shot a regular thick steel plate with Non AP (FMJ 50 Cal round) to show the effects. Bullet went right thru like butter.
After, they shot the Fat Boy with the 50 cal AP round , stopped it cold. There was minor defamation to the back side, but this material is very different, it's "layered" with fiberglass thread like material that is soft on the defamation side, you can push it back in with your finger, and it can be shot again......pretty unbelievable. Bullets simply smash into it and can be peeled off/fall off afterward. While doing the demo, they put a steel plate in front of the Fat Boy plate to simulate the body of a vehicle.
Next up : Grenade test. Placed a grenade directly next to THE SAME shot up Fat Boy plate ,and then placed a steel plate next to it, making kind of a grenade "sandwich" buried it kind of shallow, and detonated it. There was no additional damage to the Fat Boy, only the material/fabric on outside of plate showed damage (guessing from heat)…however the plate was completely intact. This shows somewhat in PB's picks on IHub. Grenade was supplied by the Collier bomb squad.
Next: Took the same shot up, blown up Fat Boy plate and taped it into another sandwich with a Collier supplied 8lb. Pipe Bomb C-4 explosive. Before detonating the bomb…the bomb squad members stated that a C-4 explosive this size would level a house. They buried it again, how deep, couldn't tell. Had us all move back approx. 100- 200 yards. Detonated it, blew the Fat Boy many feet in air, possibly 60-100 ft high , not sure. I have a video of it, which I'll post tomorrow. After all the debris settled we were able to look at the plate. Upon initial observation, the plate looked completely destroyed, however JB showed us the actual Kryron plate on the inside. The plate was bent up, but there was NO PENETRATION and it was very much intact. Again, almost unbelievable unless you'd witnessed it. JB explained that was the way the plate worked and the fiberglass type material absorbed a lot of the force. You have to remember that using this C4 is a worse case scenario with the bomb directly on the armor. You also have to remember that this plate had been shot with a 50 cal AP round and a grenade detonated on top of it before this test….who knows how it would have withstood the C4 if it was a new plate.
While conducting a the C4 pipe bomb demo….i forgot to mention that they used a current piece of helicopter armor along with the fat boy plate. After the test, the ceramic/Kevlar helicopter armor was completely destroyed and melted. Along with what PB said, the pipe bomb had nails that were inside to try and create more damage to the armor.
Finally, a 2nd Fat Boy plate was shot with (approx 23) .308 rounds and ( approx 20) .223 rounds. Results were completely successful, no penetration. There was defamation, however the soft white fiberglass material could be pushed back in easily with your hand and the plate could be shot again. While observing the plates, JB did say the name of the white fiberglass material…but I cannot remember the name…it was something like (strife,strafe...sife)? Maybe somebody who knows about ballistics can clarify this. As I have mentioned several times, it kind of looked like fiberglass or that fake spider web stuff you can buy at Halloween time to decorate. It seemed that if the bullets did pass through the kryaluminum plate on the inside….the bullet was flattened and then caught in the white web material.
Other observations:
No vehicles or helicopters there , but I think I missed the part about the helicopter Kryron test part being taped into one of the sandwiches and being blown up that Pistonbone mentioned. Rep. from SRATS was there as PB mentioned.
A very intelligent woman was in attendance. From my understanding she is working for Bourque or helping in some way. If I understood correctly, she has a lot of experience with the government/military. From a few conversations I heard, she is the inventor of some type of laser, that, (I'm not making this up) can cut wire and metal from far distances and the US military is apparently interested or have purchased the laser already. From what I heard, the laser may be used on robots to detonate, dismantle, or destroy bombs, keeping bomb squad members safe….I can verify who she is and I am hoping maybe somebody on this board has some further information about her they maybe able to share. As I said before, the information came from over hearing a conversation at the demo.
Re: NIJ certification, John Bourque's only mention was that it was taking so long because of the unique nature of Kryron , but mentioned things were "happening fast". Nothing more.....sorry.
The NBC2 news guy asked about pricing of the plates. JB said that pricing would range from $400 to $895 , assuming he meant from the Thinline up to the FatBoy , with the other 2 plates being inbetween somewhere.
The demo ended sometime between 1-2 pm, Bourque and crew said they were leaving Saturday to go back out West...and I believe they are going to Las Vegas.
JB also mentioned that his material is recyclable
Observations: What I saw was real. I'm in the amazed category, I would purchase today if possible, or sooner. I think the company is rough around the edges. As mentioned before they are probably operating very thin coming out of the gate until they ramp up orders and production. They will need more polished presentations as they progress, this one was very informal , kind of a good ole boy shoot. JB will need polished marketing to make this company go to the next 10 levels. BUT the product is what it is......I dont think this could be faked and I know it wasn’t. One thing I think for improvement next time, would be for someone (good spokesperson) to describe everything in detail what is going on at the event. I am someone with a intermediate knowledge of ballistics and firearms, however there seemed to be others present that did not have a lot of knowledge. Having someone explain things in more detail would have been helpful IMO.
Oh and the BBQ was excellent.
Final assessment : Unbelievable product, no one left unaffected by what they saw IMO. I agree with PB, orders from the agencies there are likely. Again , an opinion.
I probably left out lots that I already forgot. I am long BORK as are many of my family members. I will try and see if I can get my pictures and videos up sometime tomorrow.
Regards,
Bowser
P.S. - May the bork be with you and get ready to drink some more koolaid. I will look through my notes and if i remember anything else, I will make sure to post promptly.
