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Jba, cool. There is plenty of info/dd available from the company, website and people here (be careful). Many past posts are available too (mine included). As an expert, a visit to the mill would be HUGE if you can arrange it. The asset is the story here. I HIGHLY recommend this stock at these prices.
jtf
G, I believe the company has just enough money to get into production (late Nov08). The plan is, once production starts, the money starts flowing and bills / st debts will be paid over time w cash flow.
jtf
Jabba(thehut), the company does have financials for every year they've been in business (i've reviewed them). They were prepared when the company was privately held as Western Utah Copper (2004-2007) and they have an accounting firm keeping records for 2008. Also, since CPRK is a non-disclosure company, they are not required to be available for public review. However, the financials are located on the company website under the investor login. Its my understanding that the company has hired an accounting firm to audit the 2007 year.
jtf
Yes, I'll try to find out any info I can.
jtf
Yes, I know about Reynolds Brothers. However, since they are privately held, I would rather not comment on the company except as follows:
They are one of the largest privately held excavators/gravel companies in SLC, Utah. Very capable, honest, decent, people whom I have met. Involved in the project for approx 1 1/2 years and imo, believe very stongly in the mill/project and want to see it succeed.
jtf
G, this is how I understand revenue bonds (google too for some great info). Basically they're used to fund qualified projects which will help stimulate economic growth with very favorable financing terms. In this case, gov entity (Beaver County) issues a letter of inducement (a kind of endorsement/thumbs up of project but not a guarantee) and the unrated bonds are issued and are now available to sell to investors (pension funds, wall street etc...). These investors now own the bonds, collect the interest and principal payments and thus have a collateral (mill, property) interest in the project. The gov entity (county in this case) does not fund the project at all...they are not involved in any way other than endorsing the project. The gov entity benefits by collecting some tax revenues that the project simulates.
In another scenerio, the gov entity could "guarantee/back" the bonds which would then receive a "rating" but, again, the bonds would be purchased by investors and the project (the mill etc) would be the collateral behind the bonds in case of default. In this scenerio, the incentive of the gov entity to back the bonds are due to the benefits of additional tax collections in addition to the initial tax revenues mentioned above. However, this scenerio is usually a long shot...
That is my understanding...hope that helps.
jtf
Yesterday
Picture of cider block electrical sub-station room (next to mill):
Another of the mill:
Eye, nice points...couple of follow up comments:
1. Mill was 90% complete back in Feb, but people need to understand and realize there is a "physical" component and a "time" component to the completion. Right now, we are almost 100% but the last items to be complete, even though maybe 1-2% of total project, take the most time to complete/install, therefore we have what seems to be delays etc. Does that make sense? Either way, November seems to be the month now (imo, mid to end of Nov) But given the scope of project, well within margin of delays...(you should have seen the mill a year ago when I first saw it....WOW!!)
2. LT financing is my concern also. I don't think we're going to see Oct for funding even though that's the time period indicated. Again, delays, legal, etc etc are pushing this out a bit but is being worked on very, very hard. Bonds are the strategy still but how it will all work out will be interesting...
3. Call the creditors to get a feel for where they stand. They do not want to proceed to foreclosure unless as an absolute last resort. The project doesn't have the "feel" of foreclosure...not even close. Plus, chpt 11 (NOT planned)would delay foreclosure (and protect us to some degree) as I've stated before.
jtf
Here is our mill (inside):
Here is our 1st mine pit, Hidden Treasure. Notice the SIZE compared to huge dump trucks!!
G-man, nice find. Tighter copper market = firm and/or higher prices....
jtf
Eye, could I talk you into at least a "medium" sigh of relief!!! Personally, I would say a "large" sigh of relief. According to the people (on both sides) that I've spoken to, they will work it out....To bad for those who sold on the news....
jtf
Max, I asked that very question to production mgt when I visited the mill approx 1 month ago. Initially they will not produce 24/7; just an 8-10 hour work day 6 days a week. However, within a short amount of time they will gear up for 2 eight hour shifts per day. Also, they indicated they would work most days (excluding major holidays and sundays but could adjust that schedule too). So not a 24/7 operation but close.
jtf
Yes, well not specific, but I have had general conversations w company regarding this and, at some point in the near future (1-2 years), this is definately something they want to look at but right now they can't based on qualifications and their focus of getting the mill on line. Also, there is always the option of finding a clean shell on AMEX etc that could be used but that's my opinion, not there's. Anyway, the point is, they are aware of the strategy and reasons for doing so...
One last comment though, if they perform; meaning mill production, revenues and profits and also pay out a small dividend, they could survive on the pinks just fine (personally I would like to see a move off but numbers do wonders for a PPS no matter where they're listed...)
jtf
Ok, I know you're "trying" to keep an open mind...w caution...thanks.
jtf
I agree on the NOD, but things will become more clear going forward. BTW, I can't confirm this, but I heard a rumor that Wilf B and John P were once partners....YIKES!!! ...now that's interesting and might change one's perspective if true!!! Anyone else heard anything regarding that??
jtf
I understand. BTW, I'm still a little surprised that you still consider post-merger CPRK a typical pink. Yes, they trade on the pinks and yes that makes them technically a pink, but believe me, this is NOT a typical pink (not even close..). The pink you refer to is pre-merger IBCD-CPRK...now that was a pink!! And the story going forward is not that...believe me. The only reason WUCC merged w CPRK was based on mis-information, un-fulfilled promises and a lack of due diligence....it should not have happened (and current mgt will admit that). With all the info provided the past 6 months I would strongly encourage you to re-think your assesment of trust and confidence in the company and their status as a pink.. imo.
jtf
I'd say the chances of them responding to the NOD are better than not....imo....give em a chance RDG. I believe they have proven, more than once, their ability to respond to shareholders.
jtf
G, great questions as usual and i'll anwswer based on what I know and to the best of my ability.
1. The project actually has roots back to the early 1980's when Mark Dotson started systematically securing the mining rights from many different sources. Officially, Western Utah Copper started in the early 2000's (I think it was 2003 or so). Many millions (approx $30-$40 million have been invested in the operations and development of the mine so far. Another $5m or so and the mill will be complete. A project of this size and scope takes time and lots of money.
2. They are realistically within 2 months of starting. The last components are very critical and do take time but are always the last to go in. They are installing even as we speak... power poles and lines are in (that was big) so, yes, some components on list have been completed or are being worked on right now.
3. Yes, all challenging and time consuming but plan is to have them completed within 2 months (imo - late Oct).
4. Yes, all permits are in place and I know for a fact that a reclamation bond has been secured which is required by the state of Utah before 1 scoop of dirt is moved (seen it). Also, my understanding is taxes and other state requirements (mining leases etc) are up to date.
5. Yes, there are approx 60 full time employees right now with plans to expand to 200+ in the future as the mill expands. I first visited the mill in Sep 07 and it was a metal framed shell; not today....HUGE progress since then. Their initial plans had the earliest start up date that I was aware of as late fall 2007 but due to delays in LT financing etc (credit crunch aug 07) it was pushed to late spring 08. Again, these projects take time and delays do occur. We are now looking at late fall 2008....but only a year from earliest projections-not years (really not that bad).
6. This is a 100% project of CPRK now. Nevada Star (and others Palladon??) are no longer affiliated w project as far as I know; all former entities involved have been taken out by exercising CPRK options. I think some might still have a small royality interest but's that might be the extent of it. All this was taken care of in late 2006/2007 by Southworth Companies and others who now own a substantial percentage of restricted stock. Company can confirm this.
Other info/story can be found on company website: www.copperkingmining.com Also, there is an investor login on the website with access to investors. Contact company for this info.
Hope this helps...
jtf
G, hope you don't mind me responding to you (again!!). I happen to know some info that would be helpful in answering your questions.
I don't know the amount, but I was told approx how much is needed to finish and get into production which is in the several million along w overhead during this time. So logic says, based on the pr, it was in the several million range (with awesome terms and no equity). Sounds good to me.
When I was at the plant approx 1 month ago, I was told most of the equipment still needed to be purchased and installed (in no particular order):
filtering systems
Valves and pumps (more)
conveyor belts / system
toshiba control system (very expensive electronics to run plant)
sub-station connection/electrical (also very expensive)
Was told work progressing nicely and a "soft-start" will be in October. BTW, I don't think we've heard the last on that misleading notice of default PR... you would think company would respond somehow...
Hope this helps. Have a good rest of the weekend...
jtf
Eye, already there!! I love copper...Go CPRK.
jtf
Eye, no problem. Your insightful analysis on all CPRK matters is much appreciated and well respected on this board. Keep it coming....
Just my input; regarding a "take over"....its just not in the cards. BLC wants to own and operate a mine like I want to be director of security in IRAQ. Furthermore, if anyone ends up "selling" the mine, it will be CPRK (BTW, even if we get half of my $300m example - the pps would still be .06!!). But thats not in the cards either. If, and I emphasize IF, CPRK enters chpt 11, we will submit a plan to repay creditors and then, perhaps, "reorganize", not sell. IMO, CPRK will work out a remedy w BLC before that time and if they don't, everyone should know we have a strategy for protecting our project/investment. BLC can't seize all the assets...
And let's not forget about pending LT bond financing which will pay off all lenders / creditors. The long term revenue bonds are pretty much a lock knowing that the process w the state of Utah and Beaver County has been taken care of. The political powers involved want this transaction to happen for obvious reasons (jobs, tax base, economic stimulation etc, etc). That being said, however, I hope OCS can deliver w funding of the bonds. (JMO....I have a gut feeling based on some research that OCS, even though list an impressive resume on their website, don't always deliver. I guess we'll know at some point very soon. If they don't, i'm confident funding can, and will occur through other sources). BTW, I've been told the company receives weekly calls from people wanting to get involved in this project!! And finally, we have the ultimate plan for paying everyone, including shareholders w dividends.....PRODUCTION!!.....just around the corner (imo, mid OCT or so)
Anyway, that's how I see it and I'm really glad to see, for the most part, calm, cool investors contemplate the NOD pr and not panic from that very unprofessional, somewhat inaccurate PR from BLC. Heck, the significant, non-equity ST money CPRK received was the news of that day (biggest PR so far) yet unfortunately it was overshadowed by BLC (nice timing...)
jtf
RDG, I'm not questioning the use of caution; please exercise that for sure!! But Mark Dotson is absolutely no scamster CEO nor anyone else I've met that is associated with this project. He didn't start the project many years ago on the pinks, doesn't want to be there now but we are only due to being sold a bill of goods by WB etc. (ask Mark and he will admit the aweful mistake of doing the reserse merger; but we must live with it now). That being said, unfortunately you don't know him or have met him (i think) and all I'm saying is whether you believe in an official company announcement or talk to him directly, whats the difference?? Both ways have to start with a basis in truth due to investment we made and the position he holds. I wish you could fly out and we visit the mill together; you will be amazed and you might change your impressions (maybe)! In fact, everyone should try to if you're questioning even a little bit your investment in CPRK. It will be worth the cost (think of it as insurance) and certainly a way to verify your investment.
Have a good one
jtf
RDG, ok but by now, you should know that this isn't a typical pink sheet play....not by far. I wish you knew the entire WUCC story Pre-merger... you're familiar with CPRK / IBCD...not the same my friend.
jtf.
RDG, then practice what you preach.... call CPRK and call BLC (john P or Mark H) and ask questions and get the facts...don't wait around for a "possible" company response. You need to be more proactive than reactive. If you do call, you will find out info that is very compelling....If you're still feeling uneasy... my suggestion is to re-evaluate investment with a possible sale.
jtf
G, yes, I agree w your assessment of John P. However, I believe the PR was unneccessary. They could have just filed the NOD to protect their legal rights (which I respect) and been done w it. Also, the tone and wording was poor (title was horrible) and didn't tell the entire story....not even close. Why not state all the info he gave you (and others)on the phone in the PR? Also timing was suspect...I know they had to "posture" themselves w the earlier announcement, but why not call CPRK and get the facts behind the new "loan" before releasing an inflamatory PR? Definately a knee-jerk reaction. If they really understood the details of the first announcement they would have possibly reconsidered their PR release. Yes, they totally believe in the project and want it to succeed but for all those who sold at a loss yesterday they might not have known he supports project if they didn't call him. IMO, I think BLC does seek "additional" compensation and I believe he owns stock (can't prove or confirm either of those statements, jmo) If he does own stock, the PR was sure contradictory to his lt views of project almost to a degree of "stupidity" although I believe he is a smart person....I wonder if we'll see a response from CPRK or him in the next few days...
jtf
Eye, you're right on w alot of your observations and gut feel. However, we will not lose the company, I can assure you of that. Here's what I researched:
Under Utah law after a notice of default is filed (first step in foreclosure but not final foreclosure itself) the parties have anywhere from 90 - 120 days to find a "cure" or remedy (both parties have been and are continuing to talk) I believe they will agree to a remedy as long as John P is reasonable; he might be wanting more than what is owed...hummmmmm?
If an agreement can't be reached, the next step is a notice of sale. CPRK has anywhere from 30 - 90 days to respond to this notice. This is the beginning of actual foreclosure. However, imo CPRK will respond before this occurs as follows.
Here is OUR protection; voluntary bankruptcy chpt 11. Sounds horrible but is not. I promise you lenders/creditors don't want this and is pursued only as a last resort. However, in corporate chapter 11 if the asset is sold the creditors only receive what they are owed, not the entire asset (sorry John P). If there is anything left over after all creditors have been paid, shareholders benefit. Plus, think of it logically. CPRK goes to a bk judge and shows evidence of a viable company a few weeks away from bringing in significant revenues?? Gee just maybe the judge says to creditors "back off". CPRK files a plan of re-organization showing a plan to pay back all creditors IN FULL with future production. What do you think the judge will do??? Not to mention that a liquidation will cost hundreds of jobs, lost tax revenue and other negatives judge will consider. Ususal they want to see company survive at all possible costs.
Finally, worse case scenerio. Project is sold. How does it pencil out? CPRK has appraisal of $20B and a mill worth $50m. Lets say we get $300m for entire project (i think thats extremely low and believe me folks, not realistic knowing informal offers being rumored...). Anyway, after paying off lenders and creditors, $250m is left over. 2.1B o/s into $250m gives a liquidated pps of: $.12 ....WOW! And people are bailing at .035 based on a very questionable PR?? I hope John P can live with that... but this is NOT the plan unless CPRK is forced to go this route.
This is but a bump along a long, hard road that has been almost traveled. The key CPRK people involved WILL NOT ALLOW any lenders to take over nor will they work this hard for so many years to give up now. The mill will be finished, we will go to production and lenders/creditors will get paid and shareholders will prosper, imo. (sorry for the length of post)
jtf
ABO, nice posts.... I'm with ya.
jtf
Options, let the person speak....
G, good on ya, and now you really know more of the facts like I do (Mark H a partner to John P was who answered). Now call CPRK and get more facts. This isn't what it first seemed....it will be worked out. Everyone wins if CPRK gets into production, even John P. (except shorts I guess). However, I don't agree w timing and tone of PR; it doesn't tell the entire story....shame on you John P. Whats sad is will he be responsible for those who panicked today and sold when they bought 1 week, month etc at a higher price?? This could have been handled more professionally imo.
jtf
G, well said. IMO, I have to believe they will work things out with lenders who also need to protect their rights/interests. My research indicates there is a period of time (90-120 days) that is still available to negociate. WUCC should be in production by then and cash will be available to pay the outstanding bills. WUCC hasn't come this far and get this close to have things go south. IMO, WUCC will do everything in their power and rights to protect the project and us....
jtf
RDG, I don't want to discount the nature of this notice, but my understanding on this matter is it was expected and part of the process that defaulted bridge loans go through to protect their interests (can't and won't blame them for that). There is a formal legal process regarding defaults and this is just one of the steps (its happened before). The company has many months before it will escalate to another step in the process. I'm confident there is a plan in place to remedy the situation by then, but remember, this was not unexpected.
jtf
IMO, this announcement is the biggest one yet in the history of the company. Significant money IN the bank that will finish the plant, get us into production and with favorable terms w/o equity/dilution??? HELLO??!!! All those who want to sell, please hurry up and get it out of your system so pps can march higher...WOW.
jtf
G, yes I'm aware of that situtation and from what I know, it will not be an issue going forward.
jtf
G, can't find...can you message me link?
jtf