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King,
I challenge you to say nothing about share count. If Veltex is good, it can be good with any share count below 7 mil.
sam
Miamimice is either a gold mine of information by which to judge Veltex or else he is a smart man who for some reason we don't know thoroughly hates Matin.
To be conservative with money, choose to believe him. If you don't believe him, find out whether anything he said is not true. I am judging without verifying or disproving any statements.
sam
Miamimice makes the most convincing case in my opinion to keep expectations negative, 2nd only to Matin's known to all deceptions and/or lack of clarity.
sam
Based on what I have read on the board in the last hour, my belief is Matin wants to gradually lower the hype and his exposure so as to limit the amount of anger he will be creating in others while continuing to rake in money at a slower rate on his scam.
Based on this scenario he will continue to paint pictures that are never clear. Clarity can never serve his purpose.
sam
You are right. It would take years for Matin to build trust if he had the power and desire to do it.
sam
Shrotker,
What do you think the regulator will be focusing on?
sam
Matin absolutely has to be aware of the possibility of scrutiny, but he might figure the potential penalty is not too much for him.
sam
Shrotker,
If for a fact the SEC is watching this one, Matin if he wants to be at peace with them had better address in the 2004 audit a purchase of KCA.
sam
How about opinions from all on whether the new figures for profit and revenues looks more credible than a lot of the other press releases?
sam
Shrotker,
Something to remember is float versus outstanding shares. If the float is stable and who knows about that (transfer agent?) then volume is unrelated to os shares.
sam
I feel the biggest problems are:
1. Matin spends too much time spreading the word to pinksheet promoters instead of waiting for audit
2. Matin is proven to be secretive and deceptive beyond a shadow of doubt about number of shares and what he has owned or acquired
3. he has made mistakes in business in the past
4. he is not descriptive for details of careers of employees
5. we have no evidence Veltex is growing in cash
6. we have not heard from long-time pleased customers
7. it appears he has lied about his education, I can see no excuse for that
The conservative approach is to buy at $3 if stock available following audits that prove his claims. To buy now is a bet. It might be a very nice bet at these prices and it is an interesting bet.
sam
Shrotker,
I think most of King's pumping has been ineffective.
Today he is pumping with better ammunition.
sam
King,
Do you have inside knowledge? If you don't, why would you completely trust what you are told? What proof do you have?
We want good news, but vagueness is not good enough.
sam
Possible work on website is one positive. Hope there will be others. Sharecount of 6.8 Million is boring. If sharecount goes to 8 1/2 million plus and no real news ie. audit, that should be viewed as very bad.
I appreciate Rawnoc's staying on top. I believe that is the best source since nobody else including me has independently provided a good share count. If Matin himself gives a share count or if someone at company says Matin just gave sharecount to them, I would consider probably correct. Matin would not want to give a direct lie, I think anyway.
sam
Shrotker,
If I recall correctly, it was you who was told by the company that shares o/s were 2 mil during the controversy over rawnoc's first report.
Who in company if so told you that then?
King, Who in company is telling you sharecount now?
If someone in the company is telling incorrect sharecount, my first theory is they the person telling is not kept informed of current sharecount.
In any case I challenge King to present any solid evidence that the company is doing well. All longs would love to know such for a fact.
sam
The only way long-term to have a win on this one is, if longs get lucky and have dumb luck. Does anybody really believe this looks like a smart long term purchase at this time?
sam
Pual,
I don't agree with Rawnoc that you are a pumper. I think though at $2.00/plus your view of veltex should have been this is a bad bet, not just a bet.
sam
Your estimate looks a bit bigger than Bobwins prediction of 10 cents I believe for 4th qtr 2005.
sam
This is good to know and an interesting suspicion, but do you believe it applies in actuality to King?
sam
Rawnoc,
Interesting suggestion, but do you believe it?
Do you believe it is possible to know what somebody owns and how they came to own it?
If anybody knows, I bet you do.
sam
King,
Rawnoc is too well known on other boards to lead me to think that he is an insider of Veltex. Also for what reason would an insider reveal this information? And if he was an insider anyway, so what? He just in that case told you good info.
Put together a credible theory or just stop worrying about it and worry about Veltex. There is still plenty to worry about even if Rawnoc is giving a fake share count. If he was giving a fake count, why not up it a little more?
sam
Rawnoc,
Let us be fair. Not you vs. king, it is your claim vs. veltex feb 9 claim. Probably veltex upped the share count immediately after releasing share count to penny site, this sort of deception seems historically descriptive of veltex.
To me the worst thing is Veltex continuing to pump via 3rd parties which also has a historical basis. I recommend no one to buy more. I am holding since it is cheap, but might get a lot cheaper.
sam
Pual,
It is my belief that if you don't support theory 1 (the definitely all is bad theory), the only rational position left is "nobody knows where the truth lies" theory.
The 2nd theory means to support a theory whose very nature means you support no conclusions, other than perhaps time will tell. Kind of like betting which way the spit hitting the peak of a roof will go.
sam
Basically there are 2 theories/and or facts behind this company it seems to me.
One theory/or fact is this company is basically all lies.
Second theory is: nobody knows the truth. One only perhaps knows that Matin has been in this business for years, made mistakes, made promises he could not keep. The result of all these struggles are unclear, maybe he is mostly fraudalent, maybe he is just trying to straighten out where he has gone astray. This theory says hope and patience could pay off if only modestly, just like a bet on a horse race may or may not. The sole long-term strong supporter of this theory I believe is Pual, but Shrotker believes Pual is the longest known resident participant/better in this company which should give some credence to this theory, but I too am mystified as to how Pual has held up through so much disappointment with the company.
sam
What is the history of the top guys? Good, bad, unknown?
sam
Correct me if I am wrong. This latest writeup makes no mention of an audit or plan to get on another exchange.
Will we see mention of audit or exchanges for the next few months?
It makes no sense to me to time another writeup if an audit was imminent anyway, instead get both 2003/2004 audits done if if if if and then spread the news to the world.
sam
If you find what you need and successfully nail Matin for wrongdoing, let me be the first to commend you.
I hope of course that he is a prince who has limited evil that he committed, unfortunately probably not true.
sam
King,
I hope everything turns out good, but you realize if things are not good the odds are you would not be told that.
However one big IF share count remains stable, hope remains.
sam
I have 2000 shares, I sold 6500 with a sliver of gain but down on remaining.
sam
Pual,
Sounds more like a representation of somebody so dishonest that he is not even perhaps honest with himself.
I would just about rather hand my money over if that is the case to somebody who fully knows he is robbing me.
sam
I feel skeptical, but my position at a $1.20 wait isn't as expensive anyway.
sam
Question for all longs:
Does anyone know of any facts that Veltex has ever done well, that looks good besides press releases, old audits that were underaudited and opinions of Matin that have been given over time?
I can't recall any hard good facts that have ever been mentioned.
sam
I believe a reasonable late allowance for audit has passed.
If this company was truly as Matin would have us believe, he would have moved heaven and earth by now to have produced a quality audit to prove it. 2003 can't be that complicated, although 2004 is what is really needed, if theoretically it was real and good.
Given the previous track record with audits, mistrust is the only way to go.
sam
Rawnoc,
I can accept if your definition of Pual's "pumping" is he is more willing to pick up postive sentiment more than negative, but of course more than 1 example is needed of too readily accepting a positive.
I don't consider that too harshly. Longs tend to want to see the positive more than the negative. I think you can find thousands and thousands of investors that by comparison would make Pual look like a saint.
sam
So far, Pual has been the most optimistic presenter of views on Matin outside of those who seem to be way too naively trusting.
Even in Pual's case, is he and every other long too eager to be optimistic?
I can only say my optimistic thinking is if there is no worthwhile substance, there may be good exit prices.
sam
Rawnoc,
That is the great mystery to me of the criminal brain or I am missing part of the picture.
I believe you, but it is strange because it takes a certain amount of cunning I think to commit stock fraud, to issue nice press releases, to keep it going for years.
sam
Shrotker,
Your view looks to me not to be greatly different from Pual. I think partial scam is pretty much a certainty. That is very different and I think in this case very different from a pure scam.
sam
Rawnoc,
If I was running a scam and wanted to plant a fake office, I would get a relatively nice-looking $200 desk when millions of good money to rob is on the line, although it might make no difference.
How about those who met Matin in person? Was it always in a public place outside of offices? I can recall there have been those who have reported trying to do business with Veltex, so there was a conclusion made that there at least existed a business.
sam
Shrotker,
No never know though with Matin even if scam. He comes out with a good pump on occasion.
sam
Rawnoc,
How about the part you considered promising, being the trucks possibly for Veltex business? If not, obviously they were for another business.
If veltex is partially legitimate and most of its net worth is from action overseas, we can't assess accurately by looking at activity here.
Do you agree?
sam