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I'm not surprised or even perturbed by these developments. The ultimate goal is to get retail holders "OUT"!
Don't forget these gold nuggets also...........
- Old WMI stock was NOT cancelled
- WMI Preferred stock were backed by Securitized Trusts
- Commons own the "original WMI estate
LOLOL
All in an effort to rattle WMIH shareholders since retail NSM shareholders own what...<5-10% of NSM?
Nothing PR imo.
I suggest you reread what APR means....with greater stress on "PRIORITY".
It means Commons could NEVER see any benefits before higher classes ie Piers and Preferred were made whole.
APR does not allow lower classes to receive distributions, again, before higher classes are paid in full.
If APR was adhered to Piers and/or Prefs would have gained control of WMIH, not Commons.
It's obvious your interpretation of APR is different from everyone else's and clearly wrong.
If APR is not adhered to, that means it was violated, which it clearly was. You been pushing this APR is valid rubbish for weeks now.
If you bothered to look at credible DD you would see that the FDIC potentially holds ~$40B in assets. Who these assets belong to IF there is still not known.
As I've said before, quoting "Part(b)", "Debtor in possession" and "joint administration" is not DD. It's just empty rhetoric that means nothing.
Yes, WMIH get NOTHING from the WMI estate since they are not the Successor in Interest of WMI, the WMILT ie our Markers are.
Yes it's a done deal. APR will never be returned after it was already violated.
I believe there are substantial WMI and/or WMB assets left that Equity will benefit from. A distribution will be made from the LT, FDIC or some other entity to our Markers from SH assets. This is why they initially tried to pass POR 6 to eliminate Equity. IMO we may see the most substantial return from the FDIC if they actually hold $40B in WMB assets.
Violating APR is not an unprecedented act by any means when all Creditors voluntarily accept the plan.
There are several here that refuse to accept reality even when it's in plain sight.
Commons received a distribution before Preferred were made whole. What part of that fact do you not understand??? Making foolish and irrelevant claims about "part (b)" and "joint administration" wont change anything.
It was already violated...commons received shares in the WMIH. If APR was being used Preferred would have full ownership of WMIH and Commons would have been permanently cancelled. This unreal interpretation of how APR works by some here is truly amazing.
Not yet...still waiting on proof/confirmation that the FDIC is holding $40B or more in WMI and/or WMB assets.
The change is sig has to do with some of the provably false info being posted daily.
No, it's about the useless back and forth with certain posters here who make the most ridiculous points ever and clearly have no idea about what they speak.
He's been referring to this act since last week yet to date has never stated how it applies. It's like they put theories in a hat and blindly pick one to use as a talking point.
Why do you feel the need to apologize? There was absolutely nothing wrong with the query posed.
I find it absurd that offence would be taken to a basic question. I'm not surprised since this is always the response when posts are not accepted as the "gospel truth".
Ignore, belittle and subtly insult, that's the treatment the person asking the question receives.
Hear only to what I say,
it is the absolute truth even when i'm wrong,
do not question my opinions,
my opinions are absolute,
just listen, process and obey,
so sayeth the great @$.........
fred... you're reading those reports wrong. Those figures were what was transferred to the LT on the RD. It has been paid out to Creditors ages ago.
No you are absolutely correct. He is reading the value as of the effective date which have already been distributed. If the LT had that kind of cash, why hasn't Piers been paid in full yet? It's basic common sense.
The FDIC,...according to a court ruling.
The FDIC was adjudged responsibility for those repurchase obligations.
Telling, since if JPM were in possession of those assets why was the FDIC deemed responsible.
Seems to me the supporting assets are in the FDIC's possession.
Could someone please remind me how much K-Mart commons received after they were CANCELLED in that bankruptcy?!?
The revalued assets after the bankruptcy were worth billions so were they also reissued Equity Interests to represent their share in this new value?!?
Just saying..........
The MBS Trusts that backed the $13.8B WMB Bonds are either with the FDIC or JPM. Either way those are covered imo, so essentially only the $2.4B DB claim remains outstanding. Those Trusts as far as I've read did not have a TPS type clause where the assets could be stripped from investors upon insolvency. If that's the case then those Bonds will have to be made whole using the pledged Trusts assets.
Agreed...As I've said, I'm prepared for $40B, $2-$10B, $100M or as extremely unlikely as it is...ZERO.
That sounds great on paper but the outcome here has already been decided between 2008-2012. No amount of wishful thinking or risk taking will alter what we'll receive. My point is, always keep in mind we could be extremely disappointed but i understand what you're saying,...for future reference.
Based on a document justice posted (#518718) it seems to show that the FDIC MAY and I stress again MAY, be holding ~$40B in WMB/WMI assets. This could be unsold SH assets where once FDIC claims are paid, Equity could see ~$26B being distributed 75%/25%. Until I can verify that opinion is true I will stick to my original $2-$10B return. So far on, based on confirmable info, $50-$100M is provable.
WMIH i see us getting a spike in pps when this merger becomes more publically known, Day Traders coming aboard and the increased share liquidity (1.1B vs 200M). Here is where i intend to unload my non-core position and take profits. My larger core position i intend to hold long term for the real benefits. I estimate that within 3-5 years, WMIH will exceed $10pps, and depending on the pace of their growth strategy, it could be sooner.
If you were the only high profile poster that others listened to then I would accept your point, but you're not.
I've seen posts making compelling cases that $100B+ was coming back to escrows where even my overly skeptical mind was tempted into belief.
What does that say for those that go "all in" with those positions. It's this very human trait that ensures Casino's "NEVER LOSE"!
Yes ZERO. I will take it as an invaluable life experience...to always believe the worst outcome is possible and to never place all my hopes in "one basket".
I wonder if those that all but guarantee $100's of Billions coming back consider the possibility we could see a minimal return or nothing at all, and how that would affect those who've held unrealistic expectations for the last 6-10 years.
I've for many years now tempered my expectations, even more so now, so that if $40B, $2-$10B, $100M or ZERO comes back I won't be even mildly distraught.
QUOTE: "The articles of incorporation and bylaws of New Holding Company will authorize (a) five-hundred million (500,000,000) shares of New Holding Company Common Stock, $0.01 par value per share; (b) authorize twenty million(20,000,000) shares of New Holding Company preferred stock for future issuance upon terms designated by the board of directors of the New Holding Company;"
OS was ~62M shares at the time of the merger with Sears.
You are the one making the claim, it's you who needs to prove WMIH has assets they never reported to the SEC.
That's like you stating the sky is purple and then telling me I have to prove it's not...LOLOL.
Are you serious!?!
WMIH owns no "valuable" assets other than the ~$600M in cash and the NOLS.
Point taken.
So you do not believe there is not going to be an S4V transaction as many believe here???
In any case you're wrong about WMIH since any assets they have needs to be reported in SEC filings as that would be "Material Information".
They are on the Nasdaq, not the Pinksheets, and must be fully compliant to remain there.
WMIH owns no assets other than the ~$600M in cash and the NOLS.
Didn't you post yesterday that WMIH got the $2.7B loan because of assets and cash they possessed?
So today, the assets are now back with the FDIC which WMIH must buy in an S4V...which is it?
Provide a link or text showing the FDIC info you just claimed.
Shouting S4V for the next 6 months isn't going to make it happen or truly convince any skeptic, especially when no one has yet provided any answers to the questions about it. I'll ask again what assets and from whom???
Yes I have and have been posting the actual language showing the FDIC-R is not fully released almost 2 years now. Where have you been? Obviously reading nothing but posts that feed the fantasies.
Posted 4/11/2016
https://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=121826618
As I said....no clue and as for Theoakhead2017...those posts are utterly useless.
What I can say with a great deal of confidence is that no direct subs of WMI nor SPE subs of WMB could be sold to JPM.
The reasons being WMI's subs were not part of the Receivership and WMB's SPE's are protected by Safe Harbor.
That said, I also do not believe WMIH owns any of these former WMI or WMIH assets.
The reason being they would have to be reported in SEC filings once they started trading on the Nasdaq.
What happened to all those assets and subs is anyone's guess.
Yes those figures quoted are absolutely impossible. The maximum that is actually supported by evidence is ~$40B in unsold assets being held by the FDIC.
The proof, if it is being read correctly shows the WMB estate were seized with $298B in assets but only $258B or so was actually transferred to JPM.
Once the $13.8B bond claim is paid there may be $26B or so in possible SH or Receivership assets remaining. Those $100B+ figures are as you said....ludicrous!
https://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=140643217
Trying to understand this S4V theory...rather than re-debate it's merits or demerits.....
If this S4V is to occur we can agree it will not be between WMIH and the WMILT, according to the LT Agreement.
It states that the LT cannot engage in any trade or business, and must also liquidate, convert to cash and distribute all LT assets.
This will become even truer if SH assets are not deemed to be LT Assets, but rather truly isolated from the bankruptcy and managed on our behalf by remote external Trusts (DST's).
This imo eliminates any possibility of an S4V occurring with any involvement of the WMILT and thus begs the question of whom will WMIH conduct such a transaction.
Do you contend that WMI estate assets are being secured (by A&M???) in Delaware Trusts and it is via these entities or alternatively with the FDIC that WMIH will effect an S4V transaction?
Looking for some clarity on this issue.
I keep posing certain basic questions to our local ""experts" and surprise surprise....they are ignored for obvious reasons. Facts don't lie!!!
(1) How does common shares, CANCELLED with the OTC, be reissued to former holders so they can reclaim the "original WMI estate" and the nullified APR reinstated after 6 years??? LOLOL
To date I am yet to see any valid evidence proving commons were NOT cancelled.
(2) What specific Trusts financially backed Wampq & Wamkq preferred shares when their Prospectus documents stated they were not???
(3) As per CBA09 (an actual bank auditor), WMI as the parent owns interests in SH assets retained by SPE's. Since WMI was eliminated on the ED and was succeeded by the WMILT, how does any other entity claim ownership of those ""assets"" over their rightful owners???
Note: The LT is a pass through entity for TAX PURPOSES ONLY, meaning the LT will not be responsible for payment of any taxes on distributions. That burden will "pass thru" to the recipient of the payments, ie Escrow holders. A total non issue and misrepresentation of facts.
Also the LT uses Liquidation Basis of Accounting (LBA), if ONE researched what LBA involves ONE would see that ONLY assets being or that have been liquidated for distribution must be accounted for in a Statement of Net Assets Liquidation. Again, if ONE read the actual requirement, ONE would know this.
No I don't, I don't own any. The only person here that apparently own them is AZ.
Just like Piers are the last hurdle before our Escrows are paid by the LT, so too are the WMB Bonds (Snr + Sub).
Once they are paid in full, Equity is next in line to be paid by the FDIC with any remaining assets/cash.
My personal belief is that any benefits from SH assets will come via the LT and/or the FDIC to our ""Escrows"".
We know that the cash generated from Participating Interests held by SPE's were pledged to WMI.
IF these interests are still valid those benefits will return to WMI once the LT is able to reclaim them.
This imo also applies to excess assets held by the FDIC in that when liquidated, we will receive the excess cash.
How much and if we will receive anything is obviously still an unknown variable to date.
If WMIH will receive anything is dependent on whether their ownership of 100% of WMIIC's Equity Interests has any value.
If those Equity Interests are worth anything then it is possible this can translate into a % of cash returns to WMIH.
A possibility but not probable imo, but I'm much more confident in a substantial return to ""Escrows"".
One issue where I'm in full agreement with AZ (surprise!) is the payment of WMB Class 17 Bonds.
Once these Bonds begin receiving payments or are paid in full, my confidence in ""Escrows"" being paid will increase exponentially.
Note: I use the term Escrows to represent our ownership interests in any estate assets, even though they are actually for share distributions only.