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Again misquoting and taking quotes out of context...typical of the failed and erroneous DD you post!
Again, please read what you respond to, it's obvious you don't or do not comprehend anything being posted.
It's really embarrassing.............
I don't know about you but my XXXX shares of former WAMPQ Preferred were all Cancelled and replaced with XXXX Equity Markers.
These Markers now represent my interest in the 75% Preferred Equity Interests now own in any and all former WMI estate assets,...Safe Harbor or otherwise.
Well it's very simple, before responding to posts, it would be great to understand what is being posted about. That would ensure one stays on topic and not be irrelevant.
We're officially in "Twilight Zone" territory now.........
Commons are entitled to 25% (as in 75%/25%) of any returns from the WMI estate, not 50% of WMIH. According to your logic WMIH/NSM is going to issue 1.2B shares to old commons for what, this S4V?...ridiculous. Then issue 3X that value to Prefs (representing the 75%) to obey the POR, yeah right. From day one NSM management stated they would minimize servicing and expand into loan originations, not "pie in the sky" S4V fantasies.
Really???...I would have never guessed.
Btw, what does WMIH shares have to do with any legacy WMI assets?
Oh right...nothing!!!
Last I checked, Commons and Prefs were cancelled so any 1:1 exchange for Commons is nonsense. 1.2B X $1.4 = $1.68B, at 75%/25% that would mean Prefs would have to be issued $5B ($7.5B to be made whole) worth in Prefs by a company worth <$2B.
To think anyone would accept Pref shares in lieu of cash payments is............ "Leveraged and utilized?...LOL, the assets are cash producing participating interests, not mortgage assets that could be repackaged and sold, the actual MBS assets are pledged to independent trusts.
That in addition to the LT being unable to engage in such a deal, nor will the FDIC, who most likely now holds those assets. Not the LT nor the FDIC...then who? Utter .......!
Newest ""theory""...........
WMIH will buy our CASH producing Participating Interests, IF ANY, by issuing Billions in Commons and Preferred shares.
Those shares would never be used to make acquisitions of viable companies, but instead to buy former WMI assets.
Give us your liquid "CASH", and we give you our volatile Shares...deal of the century folks!
Commons get issued 1.2B in WMIH shares even though they were cancelled and only own 25% of the Estate.
This means Prefs will have to be issued a minimum of $5B in WMIH Prefs to meet the 75% ratio.
WMIH is already doomed before it even starts business!
LOLOL
I was expecting a deluge of answers from the S4V theorists....still waiting patiently! You never know.
Anything yet???...............
1) Who will the S4V be conducted between,...WMIH and whom, WMILT, FDIC...???
2) How does the remaining 2.6B shares left after the merger, purchase $25-$100B or more in assets???
WMIH did get WMMRC on the ED in 2012 and the LT got the majority of the Run-off Proceeds (cash), with the rest going to WMIH.
WMIH 10K
QUOTE: "WMIH, formerly known as WMIHC and Washington Mutual, Inc. (“WMI”), is the direct parent of WM Mortgage Reinsurance Company, Inc., a Hawaii corporation (“WMMRC”), and WMI Investment Corp., a Delaware corporation (“WMIIC”)."
A reminder.........
QUOTE: "I did NOT notice that the merger NSM/WMIH was between ESCROWS, just WMIH, & is stated no where in any documents. I own both, escrow & WMIH."
This was your response to what I posted, in which nothing you queried I ever stated. Remember now!?!
What about the simple questions I asked??? There are so many theories that are promoted but as soon as questions are asked...silence!!! Any theory that can't or won't be defended when queried are IMO worthless.
I don't answer for statements made by others...get it now or need i make it even simpler so you might yet understand........
What about these..........
1) Who will the S4V be conducted between,...WMIH and whom???
2) In what ratio will Common and Preferred EI's be exchanged for WMIH shares, ie 1:1, 2:1 etc???
3) What $ value in assets do you expect to be exchanged for shares ($10B, $100B)???
4) How does the remaining 2.6B shares after the merger purchase $25-$100B or more in assets??? (additional)
5) Timeframe for S4V, 6 mths, 1 yr, 3yrs, 5yrs??? (additional)
The two questions responded to are just that...questions, not statements. Why answer those two and ignore the more pertinent ones to your S4V??? Yes i am very serious...are you, with all this S4V speculation with ZERO proof it's even valid?
Even if by some stretch of the imagination this theory is true, the POR installed 75%/25% as the standard of how assets will be distributed.
So for example, if $10B in WMI assets is purchased by WMIH for $10B worth in shares, Prefs should receive $7.5B and Commons $2.5B worth in shares accordingly.
After the merger there will only be 2.6B shares available for any S4V type transaction. How these limited amount of shares is going to be used to purchase $25B, $50B, $100B or more in assets is way beyond my mediocre math skills.
I suggest you pose that query to those making these claims (matt, fred etc) since i have never made such a ridiculous statement. I strongly suspect though that you won't.
Wrong context. I was responding to those who believe WMI assets go to WMIH, not our Markers. This has nothing to do with your S4V beliefs.
As per Bray's supposed comments, I don't need to since I'm almost 100% sure he never said anything to that effect...I await to be corrected
I have a few questions about this S4V and once answered I will respond.
1) Who will the S4V be conducted between,...WMIH and whom???
2) In what ratio will Common and Preferred EI's be exchanged for WMIH shares, ie 1:1, 2:1 etc???
3) What $ value in assets do you expect to be exchanged for shares ($10B, $100B)???
4) How does S4V not dilute KKR's and Fortress's ownership percentages that were agreed to in the merger???
5) Will KKR, Fortress etc also have to be reissued additional shares to maintain their contracted ownership percentages???
For WMIH to receive the returns from WMI owned assets Commons and Prefs would have had to be permanently eliminated, as was done to K-Mart shareholders.
This we all should know NEVER happened since POR 6, which did just that failed and POR 7, which gave us Equity Interests ("Markers") was accepted.
We survived, so this BS being posted by many here, that WMIH gets these benefits are nothing but fantasies.
If that happens, after the merger our share of any assets is diluted when WMIH shares go from 200M to 1.1B, and KKR, Fortress etc benefits most.
Could WMIH get a small percentage of returns based on their ownership of 100% of the equity in WMIIC...Yes, it's possible.
The fact is the bulk of any cash that comes back goes to those who released and received "Markers", NOT WMIH!
Buy them from whom...the WMILT? Last I checked they were barred by the LT Agreement from conducting any such transactions.
If there are indeed SH assets they will obviously have to be sold...for CASH NOT SHARES.
I believe the FDIC holds assets of WMI or WMB that will be returned at some point, but they also will not liquidate these assets for shares.
So whom exactly will this S4V transaction be conducted with? The LT is barred and the FDIC does not liquidate assets for shares.
I won't even go into how this S4V tale is illegal from the merger perspective and how the estate value is to be divided 75%/25%, and not along share for share exchanges.
Last I checked all those shares were eliminated and replaced with Equity Interests (EI's), where returns will be divided according to ones class, Common or Preferred EI's.
Note: Still waiting to be shown where J. Bray said NSM will buy assets and not make further acquisitions.
YES....Really!!!!
I just have one question concerning the WMI estate assets to WMIH theory.
Why would WMIH gift these $10's-$100's billions in assets to KKR, Citi, Fortress and every other non-releasing large investor for little in return?
Now: 200M shares "owns" $X Billion in assets
After Merger: 1.1B shares will "own" $X Billion in assets
Payment: $600M cash + NSM ($2B-$3B?) = $3.6B (most likely much less)
Does this make any sense to you???
Status of Washington Mutual Bank Receivership
QUOTE: "The Receiver anticipates that it will make a final distribution at a later date. It is unlikely that the Receiver will have sufficient funds to distribute to holders of receivership certificates issued to WAMU subordinate note holders or equity holders.
When one can't refute a claim with facts, make false statements...nobody has ever said we were "shareholders of WMB". As posted before, any excess from the WMB Receivership, whether it be Millions or Billions, will be distributed to EQUITY...ie our Common and Preferred Equity Interests 75%/25%.
Try opening and reading the link this time............
FDIC Statement of Assets and Liabilities in Liquidation
"Joint Admin was done for procedural purposes only" and that was primarily to avoid repetitive filings and save on fees. If it was to separate WMI and WMIIC assets please explain why $260M-$300M in WMIIC assets were liquidated and contributed to the WMILT to pay WMI Creditors? JA and Part(bs) are as I said, totally irrelevant.
Almost 10 years have gone and certain "people" still think WMB went bankrupt.
WMB = Debtor...LOLOL
Too funny.
Thanks for the cautionary info...will be looking at that more closely now.
No...some on this MB have the influence that allows WMI assets to be gifted to KKR, Citi, Fortress and other Institutional Investors who never RELEASED.
What $2B bank account are you referring to?
There was a bank account with $4B that was eventually deemed to be WMI's, and was used to pay bankruptcy Creditors.
QUOTE: "I guess you DID'NT catch the part where BRAY said "WE will be BUYING ASSETS!!!!!!!! NOT companies"."
Where did Mr Bray state that they will be purchasing assets as in MBS's, not companies? Where's the quote?
That sounds like a lot like the made up ""DD"" that's posted here.
Look at the theories from a logical perspective.........
WMI NEVER directly owned MBS's or created Trusts, it was it's subs (WMAAC, WMMSC etc) that did both and any cash that was generated by these Participating Interests were transferred directly to WMI or via WMIIC.
These assets produce pure CASH, so how does WMI sell these cash producing secondary interests to WMIH for ...CASH??? The only way WMIH can purchase interests in WAMU MBS's is through the FDIC from unsold retained assets of WMB, not the WMILT.
Then there's the silly theory that WMIH owns legacy WMI assets by being it's successor. If WMIH, let's say for arguments sake, inherits $100B in WMI assets,...as of now the HF's and retail holders owns all $100B because we own all 200M shares of WMIH.
When the merger occurs and an additional 900M shares are distributed to KKR, Citi, Fortress and other large investors who never released, retail's ownership of ~$50B in assets goes down to <$10B because of the dilution of our ownership in WMIH.
The "non-releasing" investors like KKR will overnight theoretically gain $50B-$80B in value for, in KKR/Citi's case an investment of $600M and for Fortress, their controlling stake in NSM, in spite of them being additionally paid for their excess shares.
This has to be the most ridiculous scenario ever posted on this board!!!
In the "Real World" WMIH will use it's issue it's additional 2.6B (3.5B - ~900M) shares to make future acquisitions, especially when the WMIH pps is much higher.
This will allow them to issue less shares, make larger acquisitions or both. A basic business strategy that eludes many here for "pie in the sky" S4V exchanges that are remote, if even possible at all.
It should be since corporate Investors hold over 90% of NSM stock and over 50% of WMIH. In the past when major decisions have been made re WMIH, I don't recall WMIH retail holders having much say.
Their main concern may be that some shareholders could band together, with the help of external instigators (law firms) to file nuisance lawsuits, which IMO will ultimately fail miserably.
That's basically what I've been saying all the time,...OLD WMI Commons and Pref stock were cancelled in POR 7 and we were reissued Equity Interests representing our ownership interests in the WMI estate.
Commons no longer OWNS 400% of any assets of the original WMI estate as was the case before the cancellation since, to allow them to participate, the 75%/25% compromise was reached so all could benefit.
I LMAO a lot......eom
From your own document...Page 1
QUOTE: "for entry of an order, pursuant to rule 1015(b) of the Federal Rules of Bankruptcy Procedure (the "Bankruptcy Rules") directing the joint administration of the Debtors' chapter 11 cases for procedural purposes only"
LOL...rubbish.
They wouldn't, old WMI Commons didn't survive but there are many having major problems accepting this unchallenged fact. It now seems that silly opinions about "joint administration and 1015(bs) are now more credible than actual documents.
"WOW, even the POR7 is rubbish now!"
Actually that's exactly what the POR dictates, seems someone hasn't read it. Hmmmmmm
FALSE....WMIH owned the equity interests in WMIIC, it never said equity interests in assets. WMI owned everything and now we do. Stop making up quotes. WMI owned the equity in WMB,...when WMB 's assets were seized those equity interests were worthless until abandoned to create the NOLS.
Safe Harbor protects assets, a bankruptcy cancelling stock does not affect the assets except for who will eventually get them. Old commons are gone, new Equity Interests will inherit any assets 75%/25% as agreed by everyone.
"2. We know for a fact the seizure of WMB was dealt with in the Joint Administration!"
100% WRONG....Did you even read the FASB doc I posted? Obviously you didn't because it clearly stated WMB are not subject to BANKRUPTCY LAWS, hence they cannot be affected by JOINT ADMIN, which btw is IRRELEVANT!!!
"So I try and make it simple, the Debtors dealt with WMB, and the Debtors in Possession dealt with WMI."
!00% WRONG AGAIN....WMI was the Debtors and Debtors in Possession and had nothing to do with WMB after it was seized except for trying to reclaim assets. The FDIC exercised 100% control over WMB.
"The Debtors in Possession are now WMIH!"
LOLOLOL....WMIH is not a Debtor in Possession...they are not in bankruptcy. They are a new and functioning entity only tied to the LT via the POR. Good grief, it only gets worse!
I don't need to since I never said it wasn't, in fact I've said in a just posted msg that the WMI and WMIIC bankruptcies were jointly administered...WOW!
What I am saying is it is totally irrelevant at this point since it was done for stated reasons and none of them will affect any distribution of assets. You are making a false claim that it will.
"So, WMB was not seized by the FDIC, sold to JPM,"
Never said otherwise
"and the creditors of WMB were not adjudicated in Delaware!"
WMB creditors ie the Bondholders tried to seek payment from the WMI bankruptcy but were adjudged by the court to be creditors of the FDIC as Receiver of WMB as stated in the POR. They are not party to the WMI bankruptcy or it's estate other than the money received in the settlement for litigation.
"Any and all value of WMI belongs to former shareholders and the reorganized Debtor."
Cancelled stock ie Commons cannot own anything...they are gone. I've posted the text a million times and yet no one can explain it away. As for WMIH, they only receive what was stated in the POR, nothing more, they are the Successor of WMI, NOT it's Successor In Interest. Huge difference.
This has been going on for years and at one point I was also guilty of promoting false info, but nowhere near this extent. The only remedy is for the truth to be revealed and then it will cease.