Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Anyone who read the POR, Bankruptcy rule 1015(b), about Joint Admin etc would be able to clearly decipher that many ""experts"" claims about same are complete nonsense. No emotion, unlike clearly where your post came from, just the facts as presented in clear and concise English. If one wants to see what I believe will happen, it's all been posted for quite some time now and that question clearly indicates one reads or comprehends nothing. IMO, spend less time on "cheerleading" for those who have consistently been proven to be wrong on virtually everything and instead concentrate on forming one's own opinions by doing one's own study. Repetition of known facts as is being done by your favorite ""guru"" is not DD, it's clearly meant as deflection for not having a clue...as for example, the "Embedded Derivative", Commons, Preferred Trusts theory and many more that turned out to be utter rubbish. Good luck with that......
EDIT: Funny that nobody ever seems to question those making the most grandiose claims...is it that when asked their response is to be dismissive of the question and the questioner or to post useless rhetoric that never addresses the actual question??? Just a thought
I read a WMILT document (10K?) where this case was outlined and they even intimated that their prospects of being successful were marginal.
This magical rule that he keeps touting as so critical is merely an administrative tool with ZERO significance as to how any WMI assets will be distributed to our Markers, whether via LTI's or another mechanism. Talk about "making a mountain out of a molehill", it's hilarious honestly.
I'm not saying that JA or Part(b) does not exist, what I am stating is that your interpretation is 100% wrong.
Those aspects of the bankruptcy are no longer relevant at this stage, therefore making your theory extremely flawed.
Read it and understood why it was used for WMI and WMIIC. Had nothing to do with what you claimed. WMI even stated why JA was used.
No need to prove anything, I'm not the one making claims that do not exist, as in your JA and Part(bs) theory.
Again, I read and understood the relevant parts of the POR stating, Commons were Cancelled and the WMI estate is to be divided 75%/25% once all senior classes are paid.
If anyone doesn't get that by now, they never will...hint hint!
It only matters in terms of those claiming that Wamuq OWNS the legacy WMI estate,...that is blatantly false.
The terms between Equity were "renegotiated" from a $1000 face + interest for Prefs and the remaining estate going to Commons.
The resulting and binding agreement that was reached was the 75%/25% split between the releasing parties.
No matter how it's spun, those are the facts according to the documents.
QUOTE: "PLEASE TAKE NOTICE that, pursuant to the Order Authorizing Washington Mutual, Inc. to Abandon Its Equity Interests in Washington Mutual Bank, dated July 11, 2011 [D.I. 8135], and the Order Reaffirming Order Authorizing Washington Mutual, Inc. to Abandon Its Equity Interests in Washington Mutual Bank, dated September 19, 2011 [D.I. 8629] (collectively, the “Orders”), the United States Bankruptcy Court for the District of Delaware (the “Bankruptcy Court”) (i) authorized Washington Mutual, Inc. (“WMI”) and its chapter 11 estate, upon the entry of an order confirming a chapter 11 plan in their chapter 11 cases, to abandon their equity interests in the outstanding stock (the “WMB Stock”) of Washington Mutual Bank (“WMB”), and (ii) established that, upon such abandonment, WMI and its chapter 11 estate shall automatically be deemed to have permanently surrendered and relinquished all of their right, title and interest to the WMB Stock, including any recovery rights and/or litigation claims with respect thereto; provided, however, that such abandonment shall not constitute a withdrawal or release of any claims asserted by WMI as a creditor of WMB against the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (the “FDIC”), in its capacity as receiver for WMB or in its corporate capacity, on account of WMI’s status as a creditor, and does not constitute a withdrawal or release of any rights under the Second Amended and Restated Settlement Agreement, dated as of February 7, 2011, among WMI, FDIC and the other signatories thereto (as amended, the “Global Settlement Agreement”)."
No document has, IMO, ever nullified the claim made by WMI of being a creditor of WMB. Even the POR 7 seems to support this statement in the section quoted below..........
QUOTE: "1.183 Released Claims: Collectively, (a) with respect to those Entities party to the Global Settlement Agreement, claims and causes of action released there under, etc]..... ;provided, however, that “Released Claims” does not include...2) any and all claims held by Entities against WMB, the Receivership and the FDIC Receiver solely with respect to the Receivership,"
Important Dates:
-December 12, 2011, the Debtors filed the Plan and the disclosure statement.
-February 24, 2012, the Bankruptcy Court entered an order confirming the Plan.
-March 6, 2012, the WMILT was formed, pursuant to the Plan.
Say what again?....Old commons and all their documents were cancelled while the TPS and the supporting assets went to JPM, whereas the former investors rights were converted to WMI Preferred stock, as per the "Exchange Event",...the documents clearly states such. They are called FACTS!!!
23.2 Cancellation of REIT Series: Notwithstanding the provisions of Section 23.1 hereof, on the Effective Date, all REIT Series shall be deemed extinguished and the certificates and all other documents representing such Equity Interests shall be deemed cancelled and of no force and effect. For the avoidance of doubt, this Section 23.2 shall have no effect on, and shall not result in the extinguishment or cancellation of, the Trust Preferred Securities and, in accordance with the Global Settlement Agreement, JPMC or its designee is the sole legal, equitable and beneficial owner of the Trust Preferred Securities for all purposes.
25.2 Cancellation of Common Equity Interests: Notwithstanding the provisions of Section 25.1 hereof, on the Effective Date, all Common Equity Interests shall be deemed extinguished and the certificates and all other documents representing such Equity Interests shall be deemed cancelled and of no force and effect.
LG to begin with their premise is illogical and erroneous in that CANCELLED COMMON shares can somehow retain ownership rights to the WMI estate.... it's ludicrous!!!
As you stated, most here acknowledge the likely existence and availability of SH assets and them being bankruptcy remote, but they are still indirectly affected by the bankruptcy process.
Take for example commons being eliminated as in most bankruptcies,..what they are proposing is that commons would still be able to receive estate assets even though they were permanently voided.
In our case this was the POR 6 outcome which included Preferred shares, instead while all old equity was cancelled, they were reissued to holders under an agreement that the distributions would be divided 75%/25% between Preferred and Commons respectively.
In spite of this clear fact pattern there will never be an admission of being wrong, as with the "Embedded Derivative" issue and many others, and hence the constant use of "needless (inane imo) rhetoric is employed to obfuscate.
IMO retail's acceptance or refusal of the merger is of little importance, particularly with respect to NSM shareholders where Fortress holds a vast majority and retail is insignificant.
With WMIH the same applies but to a much lesser extent since retail likely holds less than 50% of WMIH shares and a NO vote is unlikely to have any effect on the approval of the merger.
Posting generic quotes that never mentions the WMILT or WMIH does not validate a theory, especially when there is factual info that actually refutes it.
QUOTE: "1.2 Purpose of Liquidating Trust. The sole purpose of the Liquidating Trust is to implement the Plan on behalf, and for the benefit, of the Liquidating Trust Beneficiaries, and to serve as a mechanism for liquidating, converting to Cash and distributing the Liquidating Trust Assets in accordance with Treasury Regulations section 301.7701-4(d), with no objective to continue or engage in the conduct of a trade or business, except to the extent reasonably necessary to, and consistent with, the liquidating purpose of the Liquidating Trust.
QUOTE: "My class 17’s showed zero changes from last year"
Do you actually own Class 17 Bonds or did you make this up???
The only thing that would faze me is the impossible occurring where the pps drops below the overall average of my WMIH shares ($0.53). Even so, I'm definitely not losing any sleep over such an unlikely occurrence.
Get your calculators, more of "Other People's Money" is coming to us..........
-$79,623,000 The Goldman Sachs Group, Inc. Callable Fixed
Rate Notes due 2020
-On July 3, 2018, Wells Fargo & Company issued the following Medium-Term Notes, Series T: (i) Notes Linked to 3 Month LIBOR due January 3, 2022; and (ii) Notes Linked to the 10-Year Constant Maturity Swap Rate due July 3, 2028 (collectively, the “Notes”).
-Medium Term Notes, Series S, Capped Leveraged Index Return Notes ® Linked to the S&P 500 ® Index $74,643,290 $9,293.09
Yes my expectations have never changed and I'm actually open to even more since I read an FDIC statement of WMB assets released back in 2008/2009.
Whether I reference the numbers in my sig or not makes no difference since it reflects my opinion on that specific quote only and nothing else.
That payment was for MW's benefit as anyone who could read knows. Pay no attention to these ""board gurus"", they usually have nothing sensible to say. The focus now is WMIH and the pending merger, Escrows take a back seat for the time being.
So a persons sig is the only way they can convey their beliefs...what about posts?
Nothing has changed other than my desire to counter those that claim false info is factual.
Again, so what!!! Some of your posts prove otherwise.
Since you claim to know what's going on go ahead and enlighten us all as to what happens next.
So what??? Has nothing to do with any knowledge regarding the bankruptcy as evidenced by some of your posts. That argument makes zero sense.
That sounds like WMILT propaganda....LOL
"Being around for years" does not automatically mean one has a clue about what's going on as evidenced by the nonsense and erroneous claims made that have been proven to be 100% wrong.
I am not claiming that anyone here is always wrong, but by the same token nobody is also 100% correct in their predictions or claims either, and yes that includes those who think they're always right.
Who meeee????....Never in a million years!!!!
Just like this ED issue that has already been shown to be wrong using documents. Again a total misunderstanding of what the docs said. Same as with the Commons are not cancelled, commons own the WMI estate, Preferred are backed by Trusts etc etc. Noticing a trend here!, but don't ever disagree or else you're an agent of our "enemies".
Even with this post AZ will still try to convince others his "Embedded Derivative" foolishness is still applicable. Thanks for providing some added clarity that most here will accept as the truth.
So we're affiliated with DELL now!?!...LOLOLOL
This is too funny.............
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm......Facts vs opinions....one more nugget added to the ever growing pile of bs!.
QUOTE: "The fair market value of the embedded derivative was determined to be $108.9 million at December 31, 2017, however, as a result of the amendment of the Original Series B Preferred Stock, the embedded derivative was determined, due to modification, to no longer exist and the December 31, 2017 fair market value of $108.9 million was reclassified as a reduction of equity."
QUOTE: "In the future, as a result of the Series B Amendment, there will be no change to the fair value of this derivative instrument as, due to modification, it was determined to no longer exist and was reclassified to equity"."
""Greatest Hits""....MISSES!!!
1)The Royal Bank of Scotland Group plc $1,250,000,000 4.519% Fixed Rate/Floating Rate Notes due 2024 $750,000,000 Floating Rate Notes due 2024 Pg S 7-8 Could we see $$$$$$ on Monday??????...MY FAVORITE OF ALL.
2) $123,000,000,000 Debt Securities, Warrants, Units, Purchase Contracts, Preferred Stock, Depositary Shares, and Common Stock
3) $2,000,000,000 Bank of America Corporation InterNotes ®
4) BANK OF AMERICA CORPORATION MEDIUM-TERM NOTES, SERIES M $850,000,000.
5) GS Finance Corp. $175,000,000 Large Cap Growth Index-Linked ETNs due 2028 guaranteed by The Goldman Sachs Group, Inc.
6) HSBC Holdings plc £1,000,000,000 2.175% Resettable Senior Unsecured Notes due 2023 (the “Notes”)...yes that's Pounds Sterling!!!
7) HSBC Holdings plc $3,000,000,000 4.583% Fixed Rate/Floating Rate Senior Unsecured Notes due 2029
8) Bank of America Announces Redemption of $3.5 Billion of Trust Preferred Securities
9) Deutsche Bank AG $225,000,000 Cash-Settled Equity-Linked Notes Linked to the Common Stock of JPMorgan Chase & Co. due May 1, 2023.
And many many more examples over the last year or two............
Some were securitized and sold to investors, some kept on the WMB books and others may have already been repaid since seizure.
Unless an accurate breakdown of how loans were categorized and distributed it is difficult to view that $1.5T figure as accurate.
We know from actual documents that WAMU held $26B+ in Available For Sale Securities (AFSS) as of June, 2008.
These assets were primarily MBS's and were most likely still on the books when WMB was seized, but being MBS's could not be sold to JPM.
Of the loans securitized by SPE's like WMAAC and WMMSC, it is unclear what percentage, IF ANY, was retained as investments.
There are too many variables that are unknown and as such prevents us from predicting the existence and quantity of legacy assets.
Those posts have nothing to do with WMIH, there are always about cash being raised to pay escrows for assets. The best so far is that we'll be paid by the Royal Bank of Scotland.....WTF is that bs about.
If by old markers you mean old WMI equity (Wamuq, Wampq, Wamkq and Reits), then yes, those were cancelled by the POR as posted on many occasions. Our new Preferred and Common equity interests that were issued to replace old shares now represent our ownership interests in any WMI legacy assets that may be returned. These returns, if any, will be distributed to us via the LT, FDIC or some other mechanism at the agreed 75%/25% ratio if and when such a distribution occurs.
AIMHO
Possibilities??? Posting capital raises by other companies that have nothing to do with us is not DD and is viewed as nonsensical to most here.
WMMRC has been a direct sub of WMIH since 2012 and has contributed ~$130M to the WMILT for the payment of Piers holders as stated in every 10K since, yet to this day some are still questioning this.
To quote the Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson.....AMAZING!!!!!!!!
WMI as the parent company had inter-company agreements with WMB and it's other subs to contribute some or all of the cash they generated which WMI would then reinvest and redistribute t as needed. These agreements IMO are deemed as Interests in the assets that generate the cash flow, eg SPE's like WMAAC and WMMSC that retained Participating Interests in MBS's would contribute the cash to WMI. It is from those SH assets that I believe WMI held ownership interests in that we will be paid from. Who now holds these assets and if the still exist is not clear.
Parsing words....it's these very Markers that the LT will use to distribute cash via LTI's. That's how each person will receive their distributions based of how many Markers they own.
The run-off proceeds of WMMRC were contributed to the LT for payment of the Notes which were held by Piers. Since the Notes are now paid off, WMIH will now receive any remaining cash WMMRC generates. Satisfied yet???
WMIH 10K
QUOTE: "WMI Holdings Corp. (“WMIHC”) is a holding company organized on August 17, 1994 (under the name Washington Mutual, Inc.) and existing under the laws of the State of Washington. WMIHC is the direct parent of WM Mortgage Reinsurance Company, Inc., a Hawaii corporation (“WMMRC”), and WMI Investment Corp., a Delaware corporation (“WMIIC”). On March 19, 2012 (the “Effective Date”), WMIHC emerged from bankruptcy proceedings as the successor to Washington Mutual, Inc. (“WMI”). Upon emergence from bankruptcy, we had limited operations other than WMMRC’s legacy reinsurance business which is being operated in runoff and has not written any new business since September 26, 2008. We continue to operate WMMRC’s business in runoff mode and we are actively seeking acquisition opportunities across a broad array of industries"
QUOTE: "WMMRC that constituted Runoff Proceeds, historically, were required to be distributed to holders of WMIH's Second Lien Notes in accordance with the terms of the Second Lien Indenture as described below in this Item 2 under "Notes Payable." As of September 29, 2017, the Second Lien Notes were fully redeemed by the Company and the Second Lien Indenture was satisfied and discharged, therefore future distributions from WMMRC to WMIH will be available for general corporate purposes."
I believe that cash will be used in part or whole with other capital to fund loans/investments that will bring in greater profits for WMIH. I don't think they're goin to deposit it in some account to reap meagre interest.
WMI assets, back in 2008 could not be seized by the FDIC, since the "Corporate Veil" protected the assets of Holding companies from it's powers of seizure.
If they were, it occurred because they were co-mingled with WMB assets and would have been done so inadvertently,...they will eventually have to be returned to WMI (hopefully).
WMB assets could be seized, but not those that qualified for Safe Harbor, those would have to be secured by the FDIC and not sold to JPM, according to the FDIC's Securitization Rule.
It's not a moot point since NON Safe Harbor WMI assets were subject to be liquidated in the bankruptcy and used to pay Creditors, but safe from the FDIC Receivership.
That's why IF WMI owned Safe Harbor assets/interests they would have been protected from FDIC seizure, and sale to JPM, in addition to the WMI bankruptcy Creditors.
Agreed, very informative and relevant to what could provide great returns for those who released.
Sad to say many here won't even bother reading it and would rather focus on other useless posts.
Please read post 524105 for a great example of DD...only one was required to convey a valid message.
Maybe it's because only snippets of info that support a certain outcome are valid whereas facts like what you posted are not, according to some. The quotes you presented are crystal clear to me leaving no room for doubt.