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Uhlmant -- That article depressed me. Not sure whether to believe Susman will become the next SuperHero, or that that no matter how good Susman is, we are still screwed, since government is so messed up.
JHDF51 -- With all those government objections we are going to really see what THJMW is made of. Can she rule with justice, allow the examiner and/or discovery and make the government talk, or will she be as the Board of Governors say, "quash" the motion?
Go4 -- These hearings are definitely going to be interesting. Objection by the FED tells me they are guilty as well!
UZ -- Hopefully JMW has some good clerks, because there is no way she is going to read all those documents by tomorrow.
Anyone know how long the hearing is scheduled for tomorrow? Seems like all this could take a while!
Strike -- I can live with that! EOM
Question for Susman ---
Ilenes, Strike and others that may go to court, if you can ask Susman one question, could you possibly make it if he feels (in relation to other cases he has been involved in) that pre and post BK would be included in a settlement?
I know some are sick of this discussion, but I am trying to figure out for sure if post BK commons would be part of a settlement, mainly if this case ends up going to trial.
I don't have complete history of Enron, but I did some research and saw that there was a $7+ billion settlement that only included Pre BK shareholders. I'm not sure if that one was class action vs, our case, which is still in BK proceedings.
Don't mean to stir the board up, just trying to minimize my risk in my investment. I also know that Willingham says he is only post BK common holder, but I don't know what rules apply.
Again, as always, all insight is appreciated. Steel58
Hestheman -- Hopefully JMW won't do as you suggest may happen -- approve Discovery on Rosen's terms. I would hope she sees taht the reason that Susman is even their is because Rosen won't hand anything over, so don't give him a second chance, other than to hand EVERYTHING over.
Climber -- I think possibly if JMW accepts the DS from Rosen, she may approve examiner and discovery. If my memory is collect, the trustee actually picks a specific examiner, so Susman will keep going with discovery, with the hopes of either completing it or getting a settlement ahead of time Approving both may be what it takes to end this thing quickly (Ironic -- that the longest possible path may end up being the shortest one)!!
If she deson't approve DS, she may wait on everything else yet again or approve just discovery to basically warn Rosen that they better settle soon.
I just pray she doesn't do the opposite an approve DS and deny examiner AND discovery
Based on what has happend so far, I don't think ANYONE can possibly know what will happen tomorrow.
IloveStocks -- I am leaning to begin to follow your line of thinking -- That they are all going to have to start covering their behinds soon by offering equity something. I would think though, that theywould wait until JMW ruled against them on examiner/discovery. If those are granted Rosen would still have some time to suck more legal fees out of the estate and still avoid any damage.
One thing for sure -- Next few weeks are going to be quite interesting!!
For Memorial Day:
It is the
VETERAN,
not the preacher,
who has given us freedom of religion.
It is
the VETERAN,
not the reporter,
who has given us freedom of the press.
It is
the VETERAN,
not the poet,
who has given us freedom of speech.
It is
the VETERAN,
not the campus organizer,
who has given us freedom to assemble.
It is
the VETERAN,
not the lawyer,
who has given us the right to a fair trial.
It is
the VETERAN,
not the politician,
Who has given us the right to vote.
It is
the
VETERAN
who serves
under the Flag,
ETERNAL
REST GRANT THEM O LORD, AND LET PERPETUAL LIGHT SHINE UPON
THEM.
God
Bless them all!!!
Based on the objections in the TPS objection filing, it looks like Rosen forgot to put ANYTHING in his amended disclosure statement:
http://www.kccllc.net/documents/0812229/0812229100528000000000019.pdf
UZ -- I think Rosen better spend the weekend coming up with about $50 billion and proposing a REAL Settlement!
EDIT:
Links:
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_W/threadview?m=tm&bn=86316&tid=472477&mid=472497&tof=4&rt=1&frt=2&off=1
From the Y -- links will be out soon, I'm sure --- but who is not objecting at this point?
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_W/threadview?m=tm&bn=86316&tid=472477&mid=472479&tof=5&rt=1&frt=2&off=1
UZ -- I almost wish Susman would have broken this up into 10 discovery motions with more specifics in them and scheduled them for hearings at different times. Rosen would have had to try to defeat each of them individually. Can JMW rule on allowing some and denying some or is it all or nothing?
G04 -- I guess it's pick your poison, since Susman most likely will still file EC objection to Disclosure, so Rosen will be Very busy this weekend.
Dragon -- I don't think they let this go to chapter 7 with so many questions still unanswered about assets that will still need to be resolved, so chapter 7 may not actually be any faster and if numbers are like many of us believe, equity will still be in the money no matter the proceedings.
Objection to Disclosure Statement:
http://www.kccllc.net/documents/0812229/0812229100528000000000002.pdf
Holy @#$%! I fell asleep during that boring ATT hearing call and just woke up!!!
TExas - My take, with no legal expertise is that the documents related to pricing and location of servers, etc and ATT is afraid someone wanting to sabotage JPM could destroy the servers and could harm ATT by passing price information to verizon. I would assume if any documents exist or are needed that contain emails or something that ATT is in posession of, there would be meetings related to whether to unseal them
UZ -- great article. I would think that somewhere along the way the courts will have to more lenient in what the examiner can find and instead, limit the time the examiner has. If the scope is too narrow, then I see appeal after appear after appeal. If it is based on time, the worst thing that could happen to the court would maybe to grant one extension of time. it seems like a cleaner way to do it. I am assuming of course, using our case, that an examiner would not be prohibted by Rosen or JPM from looking at what is necessary.
hestheman -- I have been wondering that for quite some time, whether this case (or others) have attorney plucking information of these boards. If so, I would have to believe Susman (most likely one of new kids on the block) is doing that. Heck, they may even be the ones creating some of these insightful posts, just because it is more entertaining to contribute than to just read the boards.
You did give me a great idea though. I think it would be an awesome opportunity for a middle school/ high school student interested in pursuing a further education in law to volunteer as an intern to do just this sort of thing, comb the boards for discovery. Maybe I'll contact Susman and see if they'll take on my 7th grade son!
UZ - After reading that objection, I began to fear for my life, believing that Rosen will even shoot each individual equity in order to prevent us from seeing a penny.
I was furious after I read this. Over the weekend, I am going to read it much more closely to see if there is any way I can pursue a slander case against him (or whoever wrote this POS). He definitely does not care about any law. He just is now consumed with making sure equity gets nothing. Hopefully JMW will see that it is clearly not his intent to maximize value, only to eliminate equity.
SF-- If Susman wins any of the discovery or examiner motions, IMO, that is basically saying that JMW believes Rosen wasn't doing his job. If that happens, then I would not be surprised to see your scenario attempted by Susman.
Intersting post from the Y related to FDIC and NOL.
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_W/threadview?m=te&bn=86316&tid=471813&mid=471813&tof=2&frt=2#471813
Thanks maekuz. I went back and looked at the original filings from 12/08 and beyond. If the orders were granted, I can't see that at this point everything would not have been remove/sealed from public viewing. The main question I have based on this, is did AT&T JPMC end up having some kind of business dealings, whether rate discounts, reduced rate loans, or something else, that they are still filing motions 18 months later. Having worked at telecom company in IT, makes me think about the data center comment someone made. If AT&T did provide services for JPMC, they most likely would have had a presence in some data center to check links between servers, etc. One must then ask how/when the data center type activities between WMI and JPMC were merged into what facilities and what happened to the remaining facilities. Are those assests that have or have not been accounted for? By AT&T having those documents sealed, the rates are not not accessable, but also the specific amount of services that are being provided (# of data centers, changing from one location to another, etc) are now unknown if no one has that information.
Over on the Y board, interesting discussion about AT&T's filing:
http://www.kccllc.net/documents/0812229/0812229100526000000000038.pdf
Edit: I could swear the document I linked to had additional information that is no longer there, but none the less the questions about what is desired to be sealed is interesting.
Chiron -- Hopefully we get the shareholders meeting. I have over 60,000 I will be using to cast my vote for your plan!
Any attorneys here? I am trying to figure out how to go about filing a petition/complaint/motion to the court relating to the money Rosen is making for the time it takes to file all these objection letters he is forcing us to send as well as the expense to send us the notification letters, most of which don't even make it before the objection is due. I have looked for the forms at the court website, but can't figure out exactly which one needs to filled out. I would like her to rule on if these forms are needed and if not how much should be reimbursed. Form what I gather, it would be anywhere from about $250.00 to a little ove $1,000.00 to file my complaint with the court. Any help greatly appreciated.
Still haven't received my notification form yet.
UZ -- After reading, I would tend to agree with statement that it was not ivestigated to death. Supporting documentation backs that up. If it were investigated to death, then debtors must be hiding lots of information, so either way EC should get access to what it needs. JMW shouldn't ake it personally. She was only going by what Weil said, assuming they weren't lying. Now that proof exists they were, she should allow either discovery or examiner or both, plus serious sanctions against Weil.
If she doesn't then we have some serious problems. This case becomes almost unwinnable unless Solomon can make up some numbers and either have JMW believe him or at least have her force both sides to rework information. Anything short of that and we are screwed.
Can we sticky post 202842 in case JMW doesn't give us the examiner/discovery we need? If the court sees more of these than the objection to Rosen's 2nd POS POR, it will not be happy.
Cut and paste of my previous message:
REQUEST NO. 16:
All documents concerning any communications between JPMC and the media, including
but not limited to The Wall Street Journal, any other print, on-line, broadcast, or cable news
outlet, related to Washington Mutual, including but not limited to any such communications
related to Washington Mutual's financial status, financial condition, assets, and liabilities.
Page 37, Request #16 is my favorite. Cut and paste not working right, but it is basically the request for all correspondence between JPM and the Media. Wonder how that will look in all the stories tomorrow?
rickszy and others -- IMO, the timeline for this case just got a lot shorter or a whole lot longer!
Supra -- JPMC won a long time ago when they stole WAMU. Even if they pay everyone what is owed to them, they are still way ahead of what they should have paid in the first place.
The only way JPM (or specific people within) lose is that they go to jail like they truly deserve.
multiple accounts, over 50 plays in action and WAMKQ is only stock in the green. Not going to be a fun day.
chaarles -- After reading your comments and thinking about things, I would have to agree. I see the bondholders though as having to object to POR, since basically everyone would be cleared of further appeals, etc, if that thing passes. Would that mean no appeals in BK court, meaning bondholders, EC, etc would have to go to a civil court? OR woulf it bondholders are totally screwed with no possible recourse since all other parties would be protected by that clause Rosen put in, saying no appeals?
Carguy-- I would like to see that! In order to get bondholders happy, everyone else is going to have to give up some of their money, or else they are going to have to magically come up with just enough additional money to make bondholders happy, keep everyone else happy and screw EC. I can't wait to hear Rosen say, we miscalculated. We have enough now for everyone but EC! The bondholders comments alone about FDIC should be enough to have them investigated. NO way JMW better sign off on any plan that frees them form other lawsuits.
Just re-read this from last night. It is definitely positive to have someone other than EC not liking this. Stinging comments about FDIC. Going to be an interesting few weeks coming up!
Jest -- I have no idea what to think anymore. Maybe Rosen is just posturing for the future, or maybe he thinks JMW will actually buy into this. If she does, that would be a scary thing and my retirement money would be in sertious trouble, because I would pull ALL of my money in all accounts out of the market.
Need Susman to have POR as soon as allowed to keep the heat on Rosen.
Do we all have to file objections again to this POS POR? I wonder what JMW will think if she sees another stack of these from common shareholders.