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racer - I'm not sure what you're implying. My take on the difference is because it's an enterprise customer, having their order publicly displayed, ordering TPM / PCs with Wave inside, and that some of the revenue is knowingly going to Wave.
I'm not implying anything other than this is the first actual order that I've seen. It's possible that I may have missed a prior, similar order placed with Dell, but even if I did, I'll drink whatever I want to drink - koolaid, milk with Bosco, liqour. I'll also smoke whatever I want, even one of those TOBAR the 8th Man energy cigarettes, or I might take one of those "There's no need to fear ~ Underdog is here" energy pills.
You on the other hand are confined to connecting yourself to a cartoon character whose only body part that moves are Speed's and Trixie's lips ~ Chim Chim's too. That is so Clutch Cargo-ish. You can't even drink Kool-aid, because your hands and arms don't move.
T123
Vacationhouse - Your find provided the most important news of the day IMO, maybe even the month, and it barely got noticed.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/breaking/optima-lands-23m-dcs-contract/2005/08/16/1123958043906.html?onec...
This link is a bonified, money-attached order that is directly linked to Wave revenue. Now I ask you all ~ when is the last time, or even the first time, you've seen a PR that links an order, the dollar amount of the order, and Wave's product together? And don't include Safelink because that was a different animal.
T123
waverider --- okay. sorry if I re-stated incorrectly.
Believe it or not, I'm not trying to twist anything
So Waverider - then you would assert that Wave may, in fact, be purposely asking their partners to keep their name out of the presentation circuit, because they haven't achieved the full "First-Mover" penetration that they could yet, and/or hope to.
I would sure like to confirm that with Steven. I think I'll email him and ask this question of him directly. I'll let you know if you're right. It would explain a lot for me, and make me feel much more comfortable that industry knowledge regarding Wave surpasses pretense.
thanks for taking my question as seriously as it was intended to be.
TIA
And, if the answer is NO, then we've all invested in something that isn't where we think it is.
And that can't be true....
rick5 - I suppose it could, but we're talking all big players saying the same part is missing, yet none of them are willing to stand up and say, "We have a solution to this ~ and it is Wave Systems".
In other words, it's either a missing part, or it's not a missing part is the way I'd frame it. If Wave's the missing part they speak of, then it's really not a missing part if everyone knows who Wave is. That's exactly my point. The behemouth's keep presenting this as, "and what's missing is" or "what needs to be addressed is". Well Wave has addressed it, haven't they?
If the answer is "Yes" and companies like Microsoft know they've addressed it, then what's the reason for ongoing presentations, and stealth around this issue? That's my question. For anyone that can answer this question, I believe they will have unlocked the mystery of the unknown that all of us have wondered at one point, or another. That being, "Why is Wave such a mystery to everyone else but us?"
T123
awk - re: the isolation Kernel
My question comes at the end.
In your post, you copy these words from a MS Whitepaper:
"...We are now ready to outline how the components and concepts described so far can be combined into a complete system. The missing piece are operating systems and applications that execute on the isolation kernel..."
You also attach some presentation remarks that Lark makes in a speech:
"...In connection with NGSCB, upcoming versions of the x86 processor will introduce a new CPU mode that is strictly more privileged than the existing ring 0. Effectively, this amounts to a new ring -1. Our isolation kernel executes in this ring. Executing the isolation kernel in ring -1 allows us to execute guest operating systems in ring 0, thus avoiding the problems entailed by the fact that the x86 instruction set is not virtualizable..."
An finally, you nicely tie together what one says to what the other states they need. I will admit that this is very good dilligence on your part, and in the way it's presented appears to make a very compelling case that Wave is the solution to this need.
Now my question is a simple one, and not meant to antagonize in any way. I just want to know if you feel there's a reasonable explanation for this, and what it is:
If Wave is that answer, and Microsoft knows what Wave's IP is, and can do, then why is Wave never mentioned as that answer, and what possible reason could Microsoft have (at this point) for keeping Wave unnamed if they're truely the secret sauce? that's the part I don't get.
While I agree with your beliefs, opinions, assertions ~ whatever, regarding Wave, and have put my money where my beliefs lie, I still can't help being baffled by this question. It's can't be a competitive advantage to keep this secret. The only plausable explanations are:
1. Perhaps Wave's secret sauce is still cooking, and needs a few more ingredients added, or ....
2 They've been asked (by Wave) not to mention Wave until significant market penetration has been reached.
3. Some other reason.
Please offer up any others you may have.
TIA
T123
D&O - Good price point for more
Just Curious
Does anyone think this stock hits a buck, or below again near-term.
Why? / Why not?
Oneputt - The most unclever name that I can think of is either:
John Smith or Jane Doe
It would be funny if I was right.
gowave1 - While I do think it will take a few years to fully saturate the market with trusted devices, I don't think it will take a few years for us to know what the conversion rates (turn on and use Wave) may be. I believe that by the end of 2006 we will have a very good idea, wouldn't you agree?
T123
Anyone else have to double-click to return out of an individual's post back to the main menu? That Spyware add on the right hand side appears to be causing the annoyance.
Maybe we can build on that.
I sure hope Wave does. :)
I'll guess $200K revenue from TPM, $600K deferred.
I'll guess nothing is reported about activation.
I'll guess $20k - 30k is reported from E-Sign or SignOnline revenues.
I'll guess another $20k reported for WXP.
Therefore, I'll guess:
$240 - $250k revenues and $600k deferred.
T123
Vader - We're either in for a fun week, or another inexplicable week of share price fluctuation.
You're right. That's the difference. I'm happy with it. Are you?
Snacks - LOL
Truth is Snackman
Neither you nor I are going to change our investment position at this point. I'll just agree to respect your position and holdings in Wave, as long as you do the same for me.
Regards,
Tampa123
Snackman - Here is one of your posts from last year, around same time. This time, I think you're right. We have to be at least at 60/40 by now. However, it appears that we're still consistent around Q3 and Q4 revenues.
What I believe, and what I see are two entirely different things.
Posted by: Snackman
In reply to: tampa123 who wrote msg# 50048 Date:8/11/2004 10:44:38 AM
Post #of 89510
Tampa I agree with most of what you said: the disappointments, the long time lines etc. I am not a genius investor as you suggest because if I were, I probably wouldn't be as heavily invested in this company as I am now.
That is the past, there is nothing you or I can do about it. It's all about the future now. Will Wave make it? That is still undecided. I am of the mind that this investment could go to the moon or go bust. Right now it's probably a 50 50 proposition.
I am in with no place to go right now. I have given myself until Q1 of 2005 to make an adjustment to this investment. If there are no revenues in Q3 and Q4, that may make me move sooner. But I am committed to seeing this through.
I believe there are many things happening that we cannot see. Maybe that is wishful thinking on my part, who knows. But I will stay the course until then.
I am not happy and I am disappointed with the time lines also, which I do not hold Wave responsible, as they have to wait for the gorillas to implement. It took years for Wave to CONVINCE the gorillas that hardware was even needed. That part of the battle has been won. Now the question is can Wave capitalize on the opportunity, and for that I give it a 50 50 chance.
This is not an easy investment. It has been built on faith up until this point and we are now seeing that TRUST will be implemented. It is only a question now if Wave will participate.
I am not looking for anything tomorrow regarding Q2 revenues. I don't think there will be much at all. It might have been a little bit better had Intel not had a recall but even with that, the revenues would not be very meaningful in Q2 in my opinion.
We should see better results over the next six months. If not, I will alter my position in this investment.
Another year waiting for Q3 and Q4 revenues.
If anyone cares to look ~ go back to the posts in August of 2004, and August of 2003 and look at the posts. I'll bet we'd be better off copying and pasting old posts now, instead of finding new ways to re-write the same ones from the past.
It's amazing how patient we've all been. We are all to be commended ~ strike that ~ I mean rewarded for the patience we've shown. Don't believe me, just go back and check the posts from years past.
Carlos - If it's time, then let's kick-start this puppy and start letting Wall Street know it's here.
Da da da dada da da daaaaa,
Da da da da dup dadadadada
Da da da dada da da daaaaa,
Da DaDa Da Da Da Da ~ boom boom
T123
MS Wave CSP - Don't know if this has been posted, but if you go to this MSDN Thailand page:
http://www.microsoft.com/thailand/msdn/0410msdn.asp
An scroll about 2/3 down th page on the right, you will see:
Cryptographic Service Provider (CSP) ที่เปิดการใช้งาน TCG ฟรีจาก Wave ชุดนักพัฒนา ทำให้แอพพลิเคชันต่างๆ
สามารถใช้การรักษาความปลอดภัยบนฮาร์ดแวร์ที่มีใช้ใน Trusted Platforms และ Trusted Platform Modules (TPM)
If you click on it, it takes you directly to Wave's CSP page. While the page itself appears to be dated as last updated in 2004, the articles and SW products being described are all current, as are Wave's links.
Just so you don't all lose site of the what's going on with MS on the WaveXpress front, I'll repost some old PRs ....
Yes - we are close. Just want to get over the hump
http://wave.com/news/press_archive/04/040616wavexpress.html
Niveus AVX Media Center PCs to Ship with Wavexpress TVTonic Pre-Installed
High-Quality, Automatic Digital Video Content Downloads Now Available via Broadband to Niveus AVX Media Center PC Users
Los Gatos, CA - June 16, 2004 – Niveus Media, a manufacturer of media entertainment devices for the consumer electronics market, today announced that it will ship Wavexpress' TVTonic broadband video application pre-installed on all Niveus AVX Media Center PCs. Wavexpress is majority-owned by Wave Systems Corp. (NASDAQ: WAVX), a leader in trusted computing.
The Niveus AVX is the first ultra quiet, fanless Entertainment PC to offer the power of a full-size desktop in an A/V component form factor. Measuring just over seventeen inches wide and just under four inches tall, the Niveus AVX is a truly stackable component that integrates seamlessly into any home entertainment A/V rack. In addition, the Niveus AVX is powered by Microsoft`s latest Windows Media Center Edition software allowing users to experience their digital media content like movies, television, music, and photos in a home theater environment. What's more, the Niveus AVX now features WMV High-Definition compatibility, Intel chipsets, and FireWire (IEEE 1394) connectivity.
Wavexpress' TVTonic, which is compatible with Microsoft's Windows XP Media Center Edition, is a leading Internet video distribution and management application. TVTonic extends the digital video recorder functions of the Niveus AVX by providing access to Internet-delivered video channels. These channels download and store high-quality programming which can be viewed at any time. TVTonic features full-screen, DVD-quality video, automated program delivery and expiration, integration with the Media Center Remote, and a channel design optimized for the TV screen.
“Wavexpress is committed to delivering Internet video channels for Media Center and the digital home theater environment,” said Michael Sprague, president and COO, Wavexpress. “This is a significant move by a manufacturer, and we are delighted to be expanding the range of viewing choices that Niveus AVX customers enjoy.”
Niveus AVX Media Center PC Availability
The Niveus AVX Media Center PC is now shipping with a starting price of $2,400. Further details and configurations can be found at www.niveusmedia.com.
About Niveus Media
http://www.pcmag.com/slideshow_viewer/0,2393,l=135027&s=25800&a=135039&po=18,00.asp
Niveus Media
This Media Center PC will definitely look good in your component stack and, says the company, will be ultra silent. It's available now for $2,894, which buys you a 2.8GHz P4 that uses a passive cooling heat pipe, a VIA PT800 chipset, a black heat-sink case, a 240-watt internal fanless power supply, a fanless ATI 9600XT (with DVI/S-Video/VGA), an NTSC TV tuner with hardware encoding, an FM Radio, SPDIF and RCA digital output, 5.1 analog sound output, stereo out, mic out, a 160 GB HD, a DVD-R/RAM/CDR/RW 4X Combo Drive, 512MB DDR400 PC3200 memory, 4 USB 2.0 ports, 1 FireWire connector, 10/100 Ethernet, and serial, parallel, and mouse ports. It measures of 4-by-17.5-by-15 (HWD) and weighs about 35 pounds.
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2004/oct04/10-12mce2005pr.mspx
Microsoft and Industry Partners Deliver on Digital Entertainment Anywhere Vision With Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005
New Media Center PCs Deliver the Best in Digital Entertainment For Photos, Music, Movies, TV and Much More
Related Links Press Releases: • Microsoft and Industry Leaders Declare New Era of Digital Entertainment Anywhere - Oct. 12, 2004
• MSN Music Service in United States and New International Services Create Largest Global Resource for Legal Music Downloads - Oct. 12, 2004
• Microsoft and Partners Announce New Era of Digital Devices Enabling Consumers to Take Entertainment Throughout the Home and On the Go - Oct. 12, 2004
• Windows Marketplace Opens for Business; Consumers Can Easily Discover a World of Products that Work with Windows - Oct. 12, 2004
• Audiovox Communications Corporation and AT & T Wireless Launch Smallest Windows Mobile-Based Smartphone - Oct. 12, 2004
Feature Stories: • Microsoft, Industry Partners Deliver on Promise of Digital Entertainment Anywhere - Oct. 12, 2004
• Q & A: Windows Marketplace Provides Consumers with Broad Product Choice and Shopping Ease - Oct. 12, 2004
• Digital Entertainment Anywhere Launch: Virtual Pressroom
• Windows Marketplace
• Windows XP Media Center Edition Web site
• Windows Media Web site
• MSN Music Service
LOS ANGELES, Oct. 12, 2004 — Today at the Digital Entertainment Anywhere launch event, held in the center of the entertainment industry, Microsoft Corp. Chairman and Chief Software Architect Bill Gates publicly unveiled Windows ® XP Media Center Edition 2005, bringing consumers the best in home entertainment with the power and convenience of a Windows XP-based PC. Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 is the core of Microsoft's vision for Digital Entertainment Anywhere. Its immediate availability in major retail outlets around the world and directly from leading computer manufacturers including Dell Inc., Gateway Inc., HP, Sony Corp. and Toshiba marks a milestone in how Microsoft and industry partners are delivering on this vision. With Media Center PCs, consumers get the best version of Microsoft® Windows ever for the home, offering the full capabilities of a Windows XP-based PC with exciting new experiences for music, digital photography, movies and television. In addition, with the availability of Windows Media® Center Extender devices offered by HP today and Linksys later this year, consumers are now able to extend these experiences to TV displays throughout the house.
"Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 is at the heart of Microsoft's vision to offer people around the world the best in complete, connected entertainment experiences," Gates said. "Together with our partners, we are truly revolutionizing digital entertainment on the PC."
Media Center PCs for Every Style, in Any Size and for Any Room
Microsoft is working with the world's most popular PC manufacturers to deliver Media Center PCs in the widest array of choices ever, including new PCs designed exclusively for the living room such as the HP Digital Entertainment Center and the Niveus AVX. In addition, Dell, Gateway, Toshiba and Sony are offering new Media Center PCs in a wide range of prices and styles, from desktop PCs to laptops, all featuring the best in digital entertainment. Finally, PCs with Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 are available to consumers from thousands of systems builders around the world, including ARM Systems and PC Club in the United States and Daiwa Distribution Inc. in Canada.
Experiencing More With Photos, Music, Television and Movies
Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 enables the best in home entertainment and personal productivity and creativity on a home PC in an easy, familiar and connected way. Windows XP Media Center Edition customers can experience digital entertainment such as digital photos, home movies, music, television and more, all in a simple, seamless design usable with a mouse and keyboard or even a remote control. Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 delivers unprecedented new experiences to customers, including the following:
• Ability to pause and record live TV. Media Center PC users can watch, pause and record up to three live TV shows* at the same time and watch them on their schedule. Recording works with any TV signal, from a basic antenna to cable, digital cable and satellite. And because Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 is the first high-definition-ready Windows operating system, consumers can easily record and play back TV shows in glorious high-definition quality. Computer manufacturers will be shipping new PCs with HDTV support by the end of this year.
• Movie Finder. Consumers can easily find movies to record and enjoy with the breakthrough new Movie Finder feature. They can browse top-rated or new releases and movies; search by categories such as actor, genre, cast and director; and even find similar movies they might enjoy. It's like having a film expert right in the PC.
• CD and DVD burning. Many Media Center PCs now feature built-in DVD and CD burning, allowing consumers to share pictures and home movies, burn CD mixes, archive recorded television programs, and more.** Microsoft has integrated Sonic AuthorScript, the world's leading DVD and CD burning engine, with Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005.
• Photos. Media Center PC users can easily transfer photos from their digital camera or USB device to their PC; crop, resize and remove red-eye automatically; and easily archive their photos to a CD or DVD.
• Enhanced desktop experience. Media Center Edition 2005 delivers a sleek, polished new look across the desktop -- marking the first visual design update since the launch of Windows XP -- and includes new screen savers, themes and digital media features.
• Windows Media Player 10 integration. Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 includes Windows Media Player 10, which makes it easy for users to discover, download and play music and video from a wide range of online stores and take it anywhere on a broad range of devices.
• Windows Messenger integration. Using Windows Messenger, Media Center PC users can chat with friends using a keyboard or remote control, while engaged in other activities such as watching TV.
Entertainment Around the Home and On the Go
Consumers can enjoy the complete Media Center experience anywhere in their home with new Media Center Extender devices available from HP beginning today and from Linksys later this year. Media Center Extenders allow users to enjoy their music, photos, recorded television programs and videos from their Media Center PC on any TV display in the home. In addition, consumers can turn their Xbox® into a Media Center Extender with the Media Center Extender for Xbox that will be available through leading retailers in time for the holiday season.
Access to Exciting New Digital Entertainment Services
Also today Microsoft announced exciting new services built on Media Center Edition 2005, from content partners such as these:
• AOL® Music on Demand AOL Music on Demand is a new service from AOL® for Broadband that offers consumers access to a comprehensive library of music videos on demand. In addition, AOL Music on Demand features today's most popular music videos, as well as the best of AOL for Broadband's original music programming, including Sessions@AOL, intimate, in-studio performances from today's top artists, and select performances from the AOL Music Live weekly concert series.
• Kodak. The Kodak EasyShare system makes it easy for Ofoto customers to access and view their digital images, and share those images in their Ofoto accounts anytime from their TV or Media Center PC display with the convenience of using a remote control.
• MSN Music. MSN is adding to the power of Media Center PCs by integrating MSN® Music into the Media Center experience. Consumers can purchase and enjoy their favorite music without ever having to leave the couch.
• NPR. NPR is an internationally acclaimed producer and distributor of noncommercial news, talk and entertainment programming. NPR now offers Media Center PC users current and past editions of its most popular programs including "Morning Edition," "All Things Considered" and "Fresh Air."
• Reuters. Reuters will introduce an interactive, full-screen news video experience through the Reuters News channel, providing Media Center PC users continuously updated news footage with easy-to-use DVD-style interaction.
• MSN Remote Record. Consumers who forgot to record their favorite show can set up recordings on their Media Center Edition PC remotely via MSN Remote Record, which will be available later this year.
These services join more than 15 others already available to consumers who have Media Center PCs.
Experiencing New Media Center PCs Worldwide
Consumers can experience new Media Center PCs by visiting retail and online stores, including Amazon.com, Best Buy, Circuit City, CompUSA, Costco, Dell.com, Fry's Electronics, hpshopping.com and Sam's Club, in more than 13 countries. Throughout the next several months, Microsoft is enabling U.S. consumers to experience new Windows XP home technologies firsthand at the Windows on Wheels tour, which will visit a number of cities nationwide, including Los Angeles and Las Vegas. Windows on Wheels is a portable, translucent experience center in which consumers can test-drive the hottest new Windows XP digital entertainment products for use in the home and on the go, including Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005, Media Center Extender, Portable Media Centers and Windows XP Tablet PC Edition, in a home environment. Tour information can be found at http://www.windows-experience.com
About Microsoft.
Founded in 1975, Microsoft (Nasdaq "MSFT") is the worldwide leader in software, services and solutions that help people and businesses realize their full potential.
* TV tuning features may vary by manufacturer. Supports up to one DTV/HDTV and two analog tuners for local channels via over-the-air signal, in the United States only. All other supported regions can support up to two tuners per computer.
** DVD burning features may vary by manufacturer.
Note: To enjoy all the benefits of Windows XP, Internet access is recommended; for some features, such as the electronic programming guide, Movie Finder and Online Spotlight, it is required.
Note to editors: If you are interested in viewing additional information on Microsoft, please visit the Microsoft Web page at http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/ on Microsoft's corporate information pages. Web links, telephone numbers and titles were correct at time of publication, but may since have changed. For additional assistance, journalists and analysts may contact Microsoft's Rapid Response Team or other appropriate contacts listed at .
NEWS ARTICLE
BWR Issues Afternoon Alerts for Shareholders of SNDK, CIPH, WAVX and PXLW
The Bellwether Report is the leading online financial newsletter, focusing on small-cap emerging growth opportunities. We strive to introduce investors to truly undervalued opportunities in a time-friendly fashion, allowing for optimal entry points and profitable exit points. Today, BWR will be evaluating the four most promising companies on the Nasdaq Exchange: SanDisk (NASDAQ: SNDK), Ciphergen Biosystems (NASDAQ: CIPH), Wave Systems (NASDAQ: WAVX) and PixelWorks (NASDAQ: PXLW). For more information on BWR or any of the above-mentioned companies, feel free to visit www.bellwetherreport.com for a free, no obligation, 30-day trial of our service.
SanDisk is trading up 12% today on higher than average volume, setting a new 52-week high -- $32.84 from $31.96. This comes as a result of the research firm Smith Barney Citigroup upgrading their action from sell to buy. BWR will keep Sandisk at the top of our gauge to see if they can maintain today's upward momentum.
Ciphergen Biosystems announced today that it's formed an alliance with Quest Diagnostics to develop and commercialize novel proteomic diagnostic tests based on Ciphergen's proprietary SELDI ProteinChip® technology. Currently Ciphergen is trading upwards of 10% on eight times their average volume. BWR will follow this company to see if they can maintain today's influx in demand.
Wave Systems made percent gainers today trading up 10% -- double their average volume. As their last news announcement came July 11th, BWR feels that in order for the company to sustain today's value the company is going to have to materialize on solid corporate development.
PixelWorks announced earlier this week they will be announcing second quarter results for 2005 on Wednesday of next week. In anticipation of today's news, shares have increased 10% in trading today. BWR will follow this company through next week to see if the report is what investors are waiting for.
Any information that we find on the above-mentioned companies will be posted at www.bellwetherreport.com
For 30 days complimentary with the BWR service, feel free to visit www.bellwetherreport.com and sign up. No credit card needed!!
The Bellwether Report to date has not been compensated by any of the above-mentioned companies.
- Market Wire -
News by QuoteMedia
www.quotemedia.com
trust - so how does that help me and my investment right now? and why should I care about where else they could be working? The management staff is not staying on at Wave because of you, me or anyone else on this board. They are not all still there because they enjoy the praise, or the criticism that we all offer up at times. They are not still there because they are underpaid or overpaid either.
They all continue to work there for one primary reason:
They believe that they've got a great business model that's going to make them all a pile of money, and bring them countless accolades from their industry peers. I too believe that, which is why I'm still invested in Wave. I just don't think they need to get compensated (other than more stock) any more than they already have until some generally accepted business success metrics (financial statements) and practices (enterprise orders) begin to confirm or justify that they should.
Just an opinion....
Oh my! Well - I don't feel like going there, but you can if you'd like to make your case that they're undercompensated. I can tell you that I've never starved making $300K+
I suppose I can only repeat your own words back to you ~ Nothing I say is going to change your opinion anyway. I think that's a fair statement. But I'm not trying to change your opinion. I'm just expressing an entitlement to having my own opinion. The difference on this board though, is that when someone disagrees with your opinion, or some others, then those with differing opinions are either labeled:
1. Uninformed of lacking knowledge
2. Inexperienced business people
3. Disgruntled investors that should simply sell and go away.
We are beating a dead horse now. I don't agree with you that management should be compensated more than they already have until they prove that they can monetize their product, and give shareholders (me specifically) an appreciable return on my investment. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. If that labels me cruel or uninformed in your eyes, that's okay.
It is just possible you know, that I could be the one right here at this point in time. I add 'this point in time, to add the proper perspective to my statement, and because I too believe that in the long run, you, barge, Doma and many others, including me, will be right about our investment, and Wave management will deserve significant, and consistent rewards.
I just don't think that time is now. If we're so close, as Wave management puts it, then all we need to come to complete agreement is see the financial performance.
Sbackman - I've built businesses from scratch ~ maybe you have too. I've made money too. That entitles me to my opinion.
RWK - not for a company that makes next to nothing it's not chicken feed
Snakman - the whole premise of your argument is grounded in your opinion ~ which you are certainly entitled to.
It is your opinion that Wave single-handedly moved the industry towards hardened security on the hardware side. It is by your opinion that I'm not giving management credit for their accomplishments to date. I never said they (Wave management) has made no accomplishments. What I did say is that I think they've been fairly compensated to date for those accomplishments, and to ask for, or to get more (other than more shares of their own stock) at this stage requires financial performance "IN MY OPINION"
So, it's not that I don't get it. It's not that I will never give them credit. It's not that I'm blinded by some problem that I have with Wave's management, because all of those assertions simply are not true. I'm just a shareholder sticking to my beliefs that more rewards at this juncture should come from financial performance.
Attack that if you wish, but I'm feeling like I'm pretty clear, and level-headed in my opinion. If you disagree, you're entitled.
T123
Bingoman - I read your post and feel that there are many places in between no additional compensation and "if you don't like what they're doing you shouldn't be invested".
I obviously feel that management has been compensated all along. Either with shares, bonuses, and pay increases. If you look at Wave's financial statements over the past several years - many in management have accrued either more income, more shares and/or both, and all have been bonused at appropriate times.
I am not saying that management shouldn't be rewarded for accomplishments, but I am saying that I do not consider the opinions of this board as the experts in what progress has been. The share price does that quite nicely. I can still stay invested and be of the opinion (my opinion only) that management should wait a bit longer for their rewards, just like we have to. If they're so close, then it won't be a long wait, will it?
I did not vote against the employee stock option proposal that was just put in front of the shareholders. So obviously, I believe there needs to be ways of keeping good people. Shares is the way to do it right now. Not major salary increases, or bonuses. That's hard to swallow when you're a shareholder in a cash-poor company that make next to nothing in revenue.
I don't think it's wise either to assume that Wave is going to do something so let's reward them all now. I believe it to be wiser to motivate them with stock that they themselves control how worthwhile that stock becomes. If it increases in value, so does their net worth. I'm in for that!
So I'm not trying to be an A-- about it. I'm just trying to offset the other extreme, which is we have to be nuts not to want to give management almost anything they want for their accomplishments to-date. IMO, their accomplishments to date are what keep me invested. What keeps them motivated is thousands, hundreds of thousands, or even millions of shares that have their name on it that are only worth $1+ each right now. If you think $300k+ /yr is underpaid for a company of this size and revenue intake, I simply disagree.
barge - Probably would have. There's always been agreement that a hardware solution was needed for Longhorne. Whether it was 1.1 or 1.2 to me is irrelavent until you connect it to Wave ~ either through Intel or others, and then provide some plausable revenue projection because of it. I still believe you're right about web-services too.
When did we have that discussion?
barge - Would you like to have that conversation with me?
Armp - I only hope that you don't hold it against me if I disagree. I don't invest for sport, or strategy. I invest to make money, and the only way that I am going to be rewarded for my patience and commitment to Wave's stock is when it starts making money. It seems only right that all are aligned to the same objective.
T123
Weby - The only thing real is that this board thinks that everything has Wave in it. Until it is proven via revenue, it isn't real. Remember IBM, Compaq, and oh yes Finread's 80 million members? Remember Intel over a year or two ago now? Remeber all these proclamations of success? Where's the share price been? They had brief run ups too. The fact is, none of you can even explain why this run up is occuring with any certainty. Spare me the premature proclamations yet again.
I want to see revenues before these kinds of conversations spring up again on this board. If Snackman can say that I'm wrong for wanting that, then I can say that I believe he's wrong for thinking that way.
My kid's rewards is a poor example. I reward when they do well. What has management done well for the shareholder value so far? I also punish my kids when they are bad too. Have we asked for anything back from Wave management between 2000 till now? A $300+K salary is pretty good for a CEO. My company makes a profit and the CEO doesn't make that.
I disagree with the parity used
Snackman - you said "Management has done a great job and were not over compensated. Where would be today without them.
Some of you can't see the fingers on your hands."
Management deserves to be compensated with shares until they make money, and then money when there is money. Management gave themselves founders shares, and took advantage of every possible opportunity to give themselves both shares and money imaginable, and only when the stock fell below a dollae/shr did they refrain from such activities.
I respectfully and categorically disagree with your statement. No one has denised them compensation when they prove they've delivered shareholder value. That's what this is all about. Not being right. Not moving an industry to new paradigms. It's about shareholders, and increasing shareholder value. When/if they bring us back to respectability in that area, I do not believe that anyone, including CPA would have a problem with management rewarding themselves appropriately.
But you ought to be ashamed to make such an announcement when total revenues are at less than $100k per quarter. I believe in compesating performance. Performance = revenues and increased shareholder values. Not good ideas and hard work. There are tons of companies that went out of business with good ideas and hard work. And quite frankly, until the jury si no longer out on this matter - which it still is, then I for one continue to ask that you refrain from deciding who's right and who's wrong on this matter.
There's at least one long (me) who believes that you are making the wrong assertions if you think that I am to sit here with $1 stocks and yet praise and reward those who haven't taken the company where it needs to be (yet) revenue wise.
When they do ~ I say reward them handsomely. Until they do, I say keep working a little hungry.
T123
jaybeaux - yes, but i guess I never put myself on the side of the fence that you just put me on. I thought I was the one parting other fools from their money
;)
kantblevit and Snackman
Some lost millions!
But that's a personal issue
Tampa123
Question for someone who knows...
On the Wave website they name some TCG partners (i.e. AMD, IBM, NTRU, others) but they certainly do not name all TCG members. Therefore, one should be able to assume that those named have some specific partnering relationship with Wave.
My question: Does anyone know what the partnership arrangement(s) might be, or do I need to write Wave and ask them?
Thanks
Tampa123
Snackman - We can have a whole OT discussion about what I would do, and it might even be an interesting conversation. However, for now, suffice it to say that Wave could get a lot of money for very few shares of dilution if, in fact, (not fiction) they actually can/will execute towards a significant revenue increase in the nearer term future.
So, if/when they hit those revenue hurdles, the share price (in theory) would go up, while the overall cost-of-money for the investment would go down.
Sorta like betting on the come-line
go-kite - if you're right ...
Then Wave should still be able to show visibility towards that revenue in their meetings with investors, via triggered events. Wave should be able to use these triggered events to go out and get cheaper financing if these triggers occur, and more expensive terms if they don't occur.
If I were Wave, I would go out and get a lot of money now (as opposed to the way they've been doing it), and base their terms on triggers occuring in a reasonable (and comfortable for Wave) period of time. If this type of financing occurs, it would actually give me more comfort, than the alternatives, because this way would demonstrate the confidence and progress in action, instead of only words.
T123
Snackman - This was a very helpful article to share
thanks