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Bull_Dolphin
I expect Q3 to be very low unless something happened with Colle-McVoy or Cubic.
I am optimistic that enough business is happening as we speak to merit some discussion of guidance in the upcoming CC, hopefully ameliorating the pain from a low Q3.
Lucky
I would think Wave supplies ETS CDs in ordered blocks to Intel and NSM and that Wave gets the fees on those units whether Intel and NSM ship them or not...but in any case if Intel and NSM order those CDs it means Intel and NSM will ship their respective products.
I am quite certain Wave gets paid for all CDs that are provided to Intel and NSM, and could thus recognize the revenue.
Snackman re: revenue projections...right up my alley.
Anybody who has followed my posts might recall that I have, in the past, harped on the guidance issue. Wave has to be careful not to overstate/overestimate, but with Q1/Q2 revenues practically nil and Q3 not likely to be much better I would expect management to be eager to discuss in the upcomming CC any business that is transpiring now in Q4 in an effort to help support our share price, unless NDAs prohibit it.
We know Intel D865GRHs are shipping and I have been told by NSM, more or less confirmed by Wave, that the SafeKeeper is fully released to OEMs. I assume the SafeKeeper ships with a Wave CD in the box as we know the D865GRH does. I assume that every CD that Wave releases to Intel and NSM are considered units shipped and therefore revenue or future revenue pending payment. When such revenue will actually be booked and reported I do not know, but to offer this business as part of some kind of guidance I should think would make sense.
Another business that I would think would be reportable in a guidance discussion would be revenues derived from the sale of ETS product. How much of the ETS product will actually be delivered Q4 in advance of the release of the Premium Services is an unknown. I like to hope that some ETS sales have already been consummated.
Management has been showing us recently that they are eager to release deployment news, such as last week's "ETS product is now shipping with Intel" and today's PR of the release of the ETS Professional Edition, so perhaps they will be anxious to offer some "guidance" on revenues this upcoming CC.
go-ks
I know what you mean about TCPA TPM derived from E2100. That's plausible to me...I think we may see more E2100-like features to come.
I now understand why Wave calls the E2100 a TPM...in fact it is, it's just not a TCPA fully-compliant one.
"Wave Systems has been a long-time supporter of the TCPA initiative and has
added TCPA TPM capabilities to its EMBASSY Trust System (ETS) offering."
http://www.wave.com/about/datasheets/03-000138_TPM.pdf
barge/T123 re: interoperability...agreed. e/
T123
Looks pretty darn good to me.
Excellent!
Thanks.
R2
Doma/go-ks are you still blocked? TIA e/
Lucky, you have to inquire. Otherwise all you get is e-mail alerts for public announcements.
Doma and go-ks...
Don't understand. I never blocked either of you...obviously. I can't see in the tools section how this could have happened.
Doma, thanks. Still blocked? and go-ks? e/
Lucky
Wave will be demoing at RSA...TCG exhibit. "Numerous Wave mgt will be in attendance".
It would be nice if Wave was also exhibiting eTM (eSign Tranaction Management) at beTRUSTed, but I doubt they are as I got no response from that inquiry.
Doma, apparently revenues from activation by Trusted PC users is negligible...numbers are just too small. Would that be Q2 or Q3 (or earlier)?
Do you think upgrades to Trusted PC users are available? I doubt it...nothing on the website.
Hi go-ks. Dunno...would never block you! e/
go-ks
I don't think you are correct about E2100 being a Supported TPM Platform for ETS. E2100 is actually not a TCG-compliant TPM, but with some reworking would become one.
Anyways, E2100 users in Europe have the Trusted PC, employing the Embassy Trust System (the other ETS!) which offers access to Wave's Embassy TAN and contains software services simliar to ETS...something very much like PIM for example, but I don't see digital signature functionality as robust as ETS's SmartSignature. Maybe Trusted PC users can now upgrade to updated versions of Trusted PC services, but kind of doubt it as Wave's focus is currently TCG. A good question to ask Wave?
http://www.wave.com/about/datasheets/03-000134.pdf
Remember, ETS (Embassy Trust Suite) is essentially E2100 software ported to the TPM platform. ETS is for the TPM platform and Trusted PC services are for the E2100 platform.
T123
That was an amazing blockbuster post! That gets printed out for posterity's sake and easy reference. You know, not being in the IT industry, I rely on folks such as yourself to foster my understanding of how all this is being planned and will likely play out.
How about composing the new heading for this forum? Please submit your version to Snackman!
Thanks for taking the time to compose and post your incredible summary!
Regards,
R2
Rachelelise agreed re: Wave maintaining first mover advantage in an ever changing evolving environment. Brings to mind the ladder rung scenario you mentioned some time ago. If Wave is looking far enough ahead, and I beleive they are, that bodes well.
As for the resources, I trust we will do another offering if necessary. It's only a question of dilution.
P.S. T123
I am probably looking too far ahead. For now, a lot of what Wave is doing is marketing ETS to an existing TPM deployment...reaching the deployment and educating.
rachelelise
There are so many possibilities when comes to upgrading for ETS or subscribing to the network-based server-side Premium Services.
I really think that having ETS in the box, whether it's a CD download or a more powerful way of enabling the TPM to Wave, like an automatic link to Wave website to download ETS is the essential starting point for any new TPM machine. At least this would be ideal for Wave. This would almost have to be a TCG objective as well. Will there be competitors?
T123
So how do you see ETS going out to enterprise in future cycles?
Whereas selling ETS for now is a revenue generator, I like bundling for the future.
lugan, thanks for the Lenslet tip.
Your PC having a TPM will suffice for you to get into Trusted Computing! Hopefully it will come with the Wave ETS download. For now that is only available, courtesy of the house, if you request an Intel D865GRH, which would apply only if you replace your motherboard as I can do on my custom built machine, or if you are to have a new custom machine built to your specifications. I hope ETS will eventually come bundled with all box PCs like Dell, HP and IBM.
OT:
Regarding Lenslet, do you have a link? Optics is going to become huge. Besides the possibility of optical computing there is also the hope for pure (non-mechanical) optical switching, without which the world will never see perfect bandwidth on the internet for things like real television-quality live video.
T123...great posts btw
You don't agree with my thesis that basic client-side Wave services (ETS) will be delivered to the consumer for free? You can get it now with a D865GRH and I plan on taking advantage of that.
I guess I would be in favor of an across-the-markets bundling of ETS, although for the immediate forseeable future ETS will be partially disseminated through Wave sales of the product producing badly needed revenues.
I am not sure how future bundling of ETS will come about, as neither IBM nor HP generally bundle. Obviously Intel is one way.
This page, the cover (default) page in the Wave Products section lists six Supported TPM Platforms.
http://www.wave.com/products/ets.html
Now, if one clicks on either ETS Business Edition or ETS Professional Edition, the Supported TPM Platforms are listed only as:
HP ProtectTools Embedded Security
IBM Embedded Security Subsystem
I believe this refects the reality that the HP and IBM systems are the only platforms currently deployed.
http://www.wave.com/products/ets_pro.html
My last post is edited. e/
Bundling ETS/selling ETS and enterprise user/consumer user:
I believe near term revenue from the activation of ETS in the enterprise sector from Wave selling into the IBM/HP channels will be significant compared to revenue from bundling ETS with Intel and NSM. By siginificant, I mean equal to or greater than bundling ETS where the user essentially gets it for free, and Wave receives the modest bundling fee.. This is for the launch phase...once server-side services are available and well subscribed to, let's say beginning 2005, I can see delivering basic ETS practically for free to the entire enterprise sector, and of course the consumer as well, because the recurring revenue generator will be server-side services (Premium Services). Ideally Wave would however continue receive a small fee for every unit enabled with basic ETS, similiar to the Intel/NSM bundling contracts of today. One consideration however is that IBM and HP don't normally bundle stuff with their products. But still, somehow ETS could be ubiqitously delivered across virtually all PCs (needless to say a no-brainer objective)...of course one possibility would be if MSFT was interested in incorporating it into Windows.
A specific consumer example right now is me. I would like to replace my motherboard and processor with the Intel D865GRH with Pentium 4. With this I will get, as I understand it, ETS Professional Edition...yes that's right, Pro Edition, for free! The Intel spec list ETS as including Document Manager, Smart Signature and PIM, and the link to Wave is indeed to the Pro Edition, including Launch Pad. So, the question for the consumer market is will users willingly subscribe to Premium Services? I don't see the consumer paying for client-side Wave services (ETS) as an issue as I believe it will come with the PC...however a question is, if IBM and HP don't normally bundle how will ETS come in the box for the consumer? Obviously Intel is one consideration, but will there not need to be others?
I can see the consumer paying for Wave server-side services enabling basic stuff like secure credit card transactions, or back-up and migration of securted data...some reasonable annual fee.
Very sound reasoning wavxmaster! e/
Well said Packstater! e/
wavxmaster, I say Wave knows more than the public about what is happening at SSP. If that is good, meaning SSPX will continue to appreciate, then I say let's hold some of our SSPX for a higher return!
Right rachelelise, but the bundled Wave services consist of an ETS that will be downloaded from an external media, namely CD. I think that is a safe assumption.
Thanks Doma, I knew I had heard this but could not recall the specifics or the source:
"Ramsey2......Wave's IP on PC21100
Wave provides the cryptographic accelerator &
crypto libraries to the Safekeeper TPM......."
"The security co-processor will consist of a processor, memories, peripherals, cryptographic accelerators and embedded firmware. The device will include cryptographic technology licensed from Wave Systems Corp., with whom National recently signed a full development agreement."
Doma, this sounds like added dimensions/functionality compared to Infineon and Atmel. I believe RWK is correct that TCG RAND comes into play if all TPM vendors want this or anything else Wave might license to TPMs.
RWK/24601...you can now see where I was coming from on SafeKeeper vs. other TPMs?...there are differences.
Has Infineon licensed anything from Wave, and the info has not been released yet?
http://www.wave.com/about/corp_back.html
"Additionally, EMBASSY technology is available in cryptographically-protected solutions as enabling utilities and end-to-end client server solutions for products from leading silicon suppliers National Semiconductor and Infineon Technologies. EMBASSY technology includes embedded libraries and firmware for the silicon providers to license."
http://www.wave.com/about/datasheets/03-000141_National_TCPA.pdf
"Wave Systems is working with National Semiconductor to provide advanced services to the National TCPA TPM platform and accelerate
the adoption of TCPA standards. Wave Systems and National Semiconductor have created leading solutions to differentiate the OEM’s
platforms through value added services, revenue opportunities and privacy options."
Doma, RISC chip could be German connection! e/
Doma, a great find re: PC21100 on Compaq server, initialzing a really good TPMs on servers angle!
24601
Of course Wave is bundling with NSM SafeKeeper...we all know that...I guess a CD in the box like the Intel bundling deal. I believe there was a time when we all thought Wave software was actually embedded in the hardware (it has sometimes been reported in the media that way for the Intel deal).
I know somebody here has mentioned that the SafeKeeper also incorporates Wave IP, but the fact is I have never confirmed the true meaning of that...meaning, is that something apart from the "bundling" of Wave services, or just the Wave services themselves?
RWK, I am sure that all current 1.1 TPMs are 1.1 compliant but there are likely nuances apart from basic 1.1 compliance. I agree you have a point about TCG RAND, so if SafeKeeper does something unique with Wave IP, Wave would be obligated to license that to the others if they wanted it.
I don't know RWK. Actually I thought there are differences amongst different vendors TPMs...I mean I doubt they are carbon copies of eachother.
Doma, interesting find...SafeKeeper in Germany.
RWK/Doma...one might wonder what differentiates SafeKeeper from Infineon TPM perhaps making SafeKeeper more functional to somebody...and if Wave IP is involved.
This may be of interest to those familiar with Intel desktop deployments going forward:
http://www.nwt.cz/nwt/seminar/Intel/RPG_DT_ww35_rdmps.ppt
Article on Longhorn, quite apart from security features. Only one mention of the security at the very bottom:
"Gates skimmed-over security features, including Next Generation Secure Computing Base (NGSCB), to prevent unauthorized viewing of content, and creation of non-execution pages.
The first Longhorn beta is planned for Summer 2004."
http://www.cbronline.com/cbrnews/e72ee43b7be9ec0f80256dcd001e4e2d
VH your same link. I monitor this. Last revision Sept. 29, 2003.
http://jitc.fhu.disa.mil/pki/vendor/wave_systems_smart_safe_signature.html
Japanese Intel...nice find go-ks. e/
go-ks re: Intel D865GRH multi-language:
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=1641896