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The likelihood of there being any amicable settlement between the WMILT and employees is IMO very unlikely.
The FDIC's position has been quite clear from the onset in that these payments will not be allowed.
They assert that the LT as "successor in interest" to WMI is a "covered company" and as such is subject to FDIC regulations.
In addition, many contracts were signed 1-2 months before the seizure, demonstrating that executives attempted to unethically enrich themselves.
What the employees are proposing would allow other companies to evade "golden parachute" regulations by creating liquidating trusts.
I do not believe that judge Walrath's bankruptcy court will allow such a precedent to be set for future cases.
Quote: "... I see absolutely nothing at all listed in any of the WMI-LT’s SEC Filed QSR’s …"
How exactly would bankruptcy remote, Safe Harbor assets be reported within the WMILT's QSR filings showing bankruptcy assets???
Don't get how one who professes to be ""experienced"" in this process, can state such a basic fallacy!
Yes...OLD WMI P + C shares were cancelled along with their documents and we were reissued P + C Equity Interests that own 75% and 25% of the legacy estate respectively.
If that's what you think I've been saying all this time just proves you lack comprehension skills.
Preferred and Commons, except for the TPS before the "exchange event" were never backed by any Trusts. There was never any "Class Specific" assets as was claimed. Just more nonsensical rhetoric from some here.
The actual outcome that was arrived at doesn't care about your emotions or what you believe was wrong doing. It was all about what could be reasonably proven in court. It could not be proven that there was enough assets to pay Prefs in full which resulted in this unusual compromise. The constant babbling about commons is futile since I've said all along...they are gone!!! To date nobody has ever explained that fact and how these old share rights can still exist. It just can't, hence all these silly excuses being made.
P's were also cancelled meaning that there will be no FV payment + dividends. Everything that comes back will be liquidated and distributed 75%/25% as per the POR. All rights of old WMI stock were voided.
Still more believable than the silly belief that CANCELLED commons owns the ~ "original WMI estate",. Now that's funny.
In addition to that some of those contracts were enacted mere months before the ""failure"" of WAMU. It's is apparent they saw what was coming and tried to unjustly enrich themselves.
Prior to the bankruptcy WMI made billions in inter-company contributions/""loans"" to WMB to shore up the bank's finances. These ""loans"" WMI contend makes them a creditor of WMB and hence they need to be repaid. The motion reiterated that their claims were not released even though WMB's stock was abandoned.
This is how we, via the WMILT, get compensated for our legacy ownership of WMB and/or WMB SPE held Participating Interests in Trust assets...
Quote: "provided, however, that such abandonment shall not constitute a withdrawal or release of any claims asserted by WMI as a creditor of WMB against the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (the “FDIC”), in its capacity as receiver for WMB or in its corporate capacity, on account of WMI’s status as a creditor, and does not constitute a withdrawal or release of any rights under the Second Amended and Restated Settlement Agreement, dated as of February 7, 2011, among WMI, FDIC and the other signatories thereto (as amended, the “Global Settlement Agreement”).
Abandonment Motion
Note: The document was dated (not signed) March 16th, 2012, three days before the Effective Date of the Plan. The GSA therefore does not release the FDIC-R/C from WMI's creditor claims against WMB.
I'm of the opinion that the payments will be over a period of time, just how long is anyone's guess.
Assets being recovered and liquidated may take a while so I suspect that's the reason the LT's life was extended to 2021.
There is credible info that WMI has assets that are stashed away which will be returned at some point.
This nonsense about the LT closing shop once the bankruptcy is closed is just that....nonsense!
Wrong sir...adherence to APR would have meant all equity would have received nothing. Commons receipt of shares qualifies as a distribution and would have been prohibited. Educate yourself instead of just spewing rhetorical nonsense.
So Commons were set to receive nothing because of APR but ended up with receiving 25% alongside the higher priority Preferred but that was fraud??? Good luck with that theory.
What happened is similar to most bankruptcies where the Debtors undervalue or hide assets to show insolvency which results in commons being cancelled and Creditors receive all the assets.
In this case commons survived and still receives 25% of all the spoils of the estate.
It was proven when Commons which were lowest in priority received a distribution simultaneously with Preferred. If APR was observed Commons would have received NOTHING and been permanently cancelled. No more proof is needed than a real life example of APR being consensually violated. That was a silly question, but I honestly expected nothing less.
The motion was filed by counsel for the "Employees" and has not been approved by the court as of yet.
The assertions about the WMILT's status were made by the employees counsel, NOT THE COURT.
Until the judge approves the motion, those assertions are not binding.
Seems that fact was missed.
Apparently it's not as clear to some since they continue posting this errant nonsense with full backing of the minions. Ask a pertinent question and all that's presented is nonsensical rhetoric.
Could someone explain how bankruptcy remote SH assets could be reported in WMILT QSR's???
Last I checked the LT was still under the purview of the bk court and as such those QSR's are bankruptcy documents.
One cannot claim that SH assets are bk remote and expect them to be reported, but then also claim the LT is perpetrating a fraud for not reporting them.
That's a duplicitous argument.
See post 534659 for the FDIC position which clearly moots the Employees frivolous assertions.
Their arguments hold no water, hence the reason judge Sleet sent them packing back to the bankruptcy court.
They have little to zero legal standing with these arguments based on the relevant FDIC regulations quoted.
All those arguments were made previously in prior filings and were recently summarily rejected by judge Sleet. They are frivolous and without merit and will be dismissed as such in due time.
The LT's motion IMO has ZERO chance of failing since their position is supported by federal FDIC regulations and case law. The employees motion is moot and by Oct 16th their years long fight will result in defeat.
As I stated previously...mordicai has the best grasp of what is occurring with these claims.
This ends October 16th or before, depending on the ruling by JMW. Judge Sleet's decision and the Employees counsel's failure to appeal sealed their fate IMO.
The Employees argument is imo specious since the reasoning behind the FDIC applying the GP regulations rests solely on events that occurred on or about the seizure date of WMB.
They are attempting to make a post-facto argument based on the WMILT which was formed ~4 years after the "offence" that precludes them from receiving these payments were committed.
In American Football terms, this would be a "Hail Mary" attempt from the offence at their own 5 yard line with no time on the clock. ZERO chance of success IMO!!!!!
I didn't read the whole filing but from what I did read, from a layman's pov, it does seem frivolous and lacking merit when one examines the FDIC's regulatory position on GP payments. I give them a <5% chance of being successful, and that's me being overly generous.
Was responding to BOB's claim that A+M were using the cash from Trust assets to set up new Trusts for WMIH's benefit. That's even sillier than the S4V bit. What are you even talking about!
Exactly...if the LT shuts down immediately after distributing the $40M and closing the bankruptcy, I'm afraid that would indicate we were all wrong about the existence of SH assets. The talk about KCC making distributions to us from SH assets is the type of nonsense i'd expect to hear from CNN.
Seems you aren't aware the LT extended it's term to Sep 2021 earlier this year. The closure of the bankruptcy doesn't equate to closure of the LT. SH assets, if they exist, can only be accessed by the LT after the bankruptcy impediment is removed. Yet another flawed interpretation from......
The WMILT...They are valid until 2021 to close out the affairs of the Debtor. This notion being peddled that KCC is in charge of distributions is absurd. The LT will close out when ALL legacy assets are distributed.
IMO the most likely entity holding these assets would be the individual Trusts themselves, ie DB, USB, BNY etc.
Per your other post...We are the successor OWNERS of WMI estate property, NOT CREDITORS like those in Classes 1-16.
We inherited this property by virtue of holding Equity Interests in WMI.
I recall reading this while researching a similar subject and it seems this action deals with the treatment of SH assets and is part of bankruptcy law. In some cases this action is laid out in the individual Trust Prospectus's.
When the TPG led group invested $7.5B in WAMU they bought ~$2B in common shares and $5.5B in convertible preferred shares.
From the document you posted it seems that only part of those shares were released, which would account for only 70% of Commons releasing.
As you said fred, KCC distributing assets makes no sense whatsoever. They are merely a body that transmits information to the relevant parties when instructed. Remember the LT controls ALL assets and inter-company claims of WMI and WMIIC. Maybe AZ needs to be reminded who owned the Retained Interests prior to bankruptcy. That would be WMI,...whose Successor in Interest is now the WMILT.
Quote: "WMI Liquidating Trust, as successor in interest to Washington Mutual, Inc. and WMI Investment Corp., formerly debtors and debtors in possession"
WMILT Omnibus Filing
Successor in Interest Law and Legal Definition.
The term successor in interest means a successor to another's interest in property, especially a successor in ownership of a business that is carried on and controlled substantially as it was before the transfer.
Translated, it means the WMILT is the successor to WMI/WMIIC's ("The Debtors") interest in any property they owned prior to bankruptcy that was not already liquidated but still exists.
The WMILT uses Liquidation Basis of Accounting,...if you look at this method you will notice it does not require assets to be recognized unless liquidation of said asset is IMMINENT. Another aspect of this accounting method is that if assets are returned separately from several Trusts rather than from one main Trust, they can be reported in aggregate, rather than individually. This IMO means that the LT Assets can be collected over time, converted into a more liquid security (1031 exchange) and finally reported, in aggregate, once all assets are returned.
Quote: Liquidation basis accounting is concerned with preparing the financial statements of a business in a different way if its liquidation is considered to be imminent. Imminent refers to one of the following two conditions:
-Liquidation plan. A plan for liquidation has been approved, and is likely to be achieved....ie the WMILT
-Forced liquidation. A third party is forcing the business into liquidation, and is likely to achieve this goal.
The accounting under the liquidation basis of accounting differs in several respects from normal accrual basis accounting. The key differences are:
-Recognize any assets that had not previously been recognized, but which you expect to either sell in liquidation or use to pay off liabilities. This means it is possible to recognize internally generated intangible assets – which would not normally be the case. The main point is to only recognize items if they are actually worth something in liquidation.
-It is allowable to recognize in aggregate those assets that had not been previously recognized, rather than individually.
-Accrue for the expected disposal costs of assets that will be liquidated.
-Accrue for those income and expense items that will be earned or incurred through the end of the expected liquidation period. An example of such an income item is the expected profits from orders that have not yet been fulfilled. An example of such an expense item is wage and salary costs expected to be incurred.
WMI never directly set up any Trusts, those Trusts were set up by WMB SPE's like WMAAC, WMMSC and WMCC etc. All we need to be concerned with is how much interests, IF ANY, did WAMU, the consolidated company, retain and what happened to those interests.
I don't see Equity Interests receiving FJR interest since only Creditors of WMI (Classes 1-16) were ordered to receive such in the POR.
When ALL SH assets are liquidated the LT will distribute this cash to Preferred and Commons 75%/25%, as referenced in the POR.
As I've stated before, I believe the end of the bankruptcy could trigger the release of payments suspended since 2008 to the WMI estate.
The closure of the WMB Receivership may be of some significance to us but we'll have to wait and see what, if anything, that is.
Please go ahead and prove it, we're all waiting with bated breath!!!
Yes LG and that is why that sentence you quoted was conveniently left out since it destroys the ""WMILT is done"" argument.
All one has to do is look at who ultimately received the CASH benefits from beneficial interests held by WAMU SPE's pre bankruptcy...that would have been WMI.
Since the 19/03/2012 WMI / "The Debtors" ceased to exist but it's designated "Successor in Interest" is the WMILT.
Who are the beneficiaries/owners of the WMILT?...that would be all of us who released in 2012.
?Any? cash that Trust assets produced since 2008 that were put on hold when bankruptcy was filed will be funneled to us through the WMILT.
This notion that the LT will be bypassed is preposterous, as proven by fredmiller, who actually contacted KCC which confirmed the LT as our "Claims Administrator".
Quote: "Eliminate The Remaining Claims"
"RE-Distribute The DCR", ... roughly $40 million in leftovers
"Close The Cases" ... (BK)"
The claims being referred to are the employees, Piers and GUC's, NOT our Equity Interest Markers.
Holders of Pref and Common Equity Interests are NOT claims, we are the owners of the former WMI estate and ALL it's remaining property.
The LT will issue us LTI's to distribute the $40M in remaining bankruptcy assets as we are last in priority.
Since you refer to Markers as claims, present one single document as per Piers or Employees that shows our "Equity Interest Claims!!!"
Once the bankruptcy is closed only then can SH assets on hold be dealt with by the Trust as you would know.
Seems that all these facts elude you, which results in these basic mistakes and errors in interpretation.
The closure of the bankruptcy imo will trigger the release of any SH interests placed on hold. This should occur between Sep-Nov. There is ~$40M guaranteed, pending the employees do not appeal, and I believe anywhere from a low of $2-$10B to a max of ~$30B (less confident) from SH assets.
Fredmiller recently contacted KCC and they informed him that the WMILT was the claims administrator for any distributions to us that released. This idiotic notion that we will be receiving payments that bypass the LT is absurd. WMI was the owner of the Beneficial Interests in the Trusts, we now own these Interests as successors in interest via the WMILT. The performing Trusts do not have our personal info as all cash was previously remitted back to WMI/WMIIC before 2008. This is what happens when ppl pretend to know everything but actually don't.
Quote: "2. What are the Liquidating Trust Assets?
The assets that are to be held and distributed by the Liquidating Trust (the “Liquidating Trust Assets”) comprise all of the assets of Washington Mutual, Inc. (“WMI”) and WMI Investment Corp. (“WMI Investment” and together with WMI, the “Debtors”)) as of March 19, 2012 (the “Effective Date”),"
1. Because they stated so in official documents and it was also standard industry practice for mortgage issuers to retain portions of the Trusts they held. The problem is we are not sure what happened to those interests and where they are now.
2. The estimations vary widely from a few billion to 100's of billions. My estimates based on what I've seen my conservative belief range from as little a $2-$10B to a max of ~$30B.
$10B: (Pq- $1000) / (Kq- $25) / (Uq- ~$2.08).
For $2B divide by 5 or $30B multiply by 3, the previous amounts respectively.