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Yes it is. I believe the $26.43B Net Assets / (Deficit) At Inception the FDIC references in post# 518718 is the same $24B-$27B in assets WAMU (WMI, WMB + all subs) referenced in it's last 10Q on June 30, 2008.
The $40.21B the FDIC refers to as an Asset - Related Equity Adjustment is a deficit, not an asset. The value is in brackets, ($40.21B), denoting a negative value.
I do not understand the "creative accounting" used by the FDIC where the $26.4B is used as both an Asset and a Liability. Here's where CBA09 or another accounting professional would be of great assistance.
RE PM...see post# 518718 for reference documents
-The document quoted therein represents the period up to Dec 31, 2008 and was filed Feb 18, 2009. Wouldn't this be more accurate than the JPM document that only reflected up to Sep 30, 2008, and why would the FDIC have a $26.43B WMB Asset entry on their Statement of Assets & Liabilities in Liquidation document if all WMB Assets were "sold" to JPM the prior year???
-The FDIC docs also show that JPM received $258.58B in assets while the FDIC seized $298.79B in WAMU assets, ie less $40.21B in "WMB Assets". How do you account for this $40.21B being comprised exactly of +$26.43 Net Assets (Deficit) At Inception + WMB's -$13.78B in Liabilities and the FDIC's -$50.46M in Administrative Liabilities???
-The $40.21B entry is referred to as an Asset - Related Equity Adjustments or Non-Cash Adjustments. In Note 8 these Unrecorded Assets (+$26.43B) and Claims (-$13.78B + -$50.46M) are deemed Discovered Assets ie $26.43B and Liabilities ie $13.78B + $50.46M respectively. How does this not mean exactly what it says coming directly from an official FDIC document???
NOTE: Note 8 does reference that Non-Cash Adjustments also includes Estimated Losses on Assets in Liquidation, but, at no point in this entire process have I ever seen evidence of the FDIC engaging in the LIQUIDATION of a single WMB asset.
TIA
Do you actually believe that JMW won't officially sign off on her ruling allowing the $100M the LT holds to be distributed to the remaining Creditors and our Markers? If so then you've really not been paying much attention to what's actually provable.
The employees are DONE!!! Once JMW signs off on her order on Thursday the LT will announce a final distribution to Piers with the remaining $40M or so being distributed to our Markers via LTI's soon after. Between Nov, 2018-Jan, 2019 the WMI Bankruptcy and the WMB Receivership will be closed.
This was paid to the bankruptcy Creditors of WMI back in 2012 after the POR was approved, it has no bearing on present developments. They have repeated the same language in every 10K since back then.
RE PM.....
I read the section where Trading Assets were deemed as ""certain"" Level 3 Retained Interests in credit card assets but just prior the Level 2 Available for Sale Securities were not also Retained Interests??? These were comprised of AAA, AA and BBB rated MBS's worth anywhere from $20B-$26B.
The ones who sometimes make the most "noise" usually prove to know the least. Case in point the well known fact that the LT was extended to 2021 as you pointed out.
Simply put securitizing loans into MBS's and selling them to investors for a one time cash payment removes those loan liabilities from the bank's balance sheet (off balance). The objective is to reduce the bank's liabilities and as such reduce it's Capital Ratio requirement (assets/liabilities). If the securitized loans are not sold i'm not sure whether they still have to report them on the balance sheet or it's that the securitization process alone guarantees off-balance treatment. I just don't know for sure.
Loans are pooled (100's-1000's) to form an Mortgage Backed Security (MBS). The loans before this process are on a banks books but once pooled into an MBS are removed from the bank's books since the purchaser is a 3rd party investor. If the bank chooses to retain an interest that must be accounted for since it could affect it's capital ratio requirement. See the link below for context (45 pages)
Retained Interests in Securitizations and Implications for Bank Solvency
Pg 4 of document: "These may take different forms and can be provided internally, externally, or a combination of both. The practice of providing internal credit enhancements to securitization structures resulted in banks retaining on their balance sheets the risks of their off-balance sheet securitized assets."
They were classed as Available for Sale Securities and were comprised of mortgage based securities ie they were interests in assets that could be sold and were bankruptcy remote. I believe they are one in the same since I've seen no other evidence of any other retained interests in WAMU's filings. Another possibility is that the retained interests in Trusts were recorded in the company books with only the cash flows being shown in their SEC filings. If such is the case, we are not privy to such info, only the FDIC and JPM would be.
The $600B-$1.5T figure was a total of securitizations over many years, many of which have already been closed hence there would be no retained interests left. The $24B-$27B figure was the actual market value of the assets in June 2008, it wasn't 3% of that figure. I can only rely on figures that were supported by documentation which is $24B-$27B. We also don't know exactly how much retained interests WAMU held in their securitizations or if it was done for every Trust formed.
NOTE: Retained Interests in securitizations have to be reported in the books/filings, unlike Securitized loans which are off-balance and not recorded.
Ques: Is it not true that the assets in the above trust were sold to investors or other banks or ….? And the potential value to the Escrows or LT is (only) the (remaining) beneficial interest that WaMu may have retained and NOT the $24-27B
No...the $24B-$27B was the actual market value of the investment assets as stated in the June 30, 2008 Form 10Q, not 5-10% of that value.
Many have tried but usually they offer a limited answer, in addition to that remember the bankruptcy is still open. The assets we believe still exist are bankruptcy remote.
WAMU was the consolidated company which was comprised of the parent company WMI and it's direct subs, including WMB and the indirect subs that fell under WMB. JPM only acquired WMB, the bank, not WAMU the company. Yes the WMILT is the only successor in interest of WMi/WMIIC which means that any and all assets/interests still owned belong to us who the LT represents. Those assets have absolutely nothing to do with COOP as a certain poster is nonsensically trying to assert here.
They just cited those two years, WAMU was securitizing loans and creating Trusts for many years before that to the tune of $600B-$1.5T depending on the info source. It's all on record.
Quote pg 259: "During 2006 and 2007, WaMu sold loans and retained servicing responsibilities as well as senior and subordinated interests from securitization transactions. WaMu received servicing fees equal to a percentage of the outstanding principal balance of mortgage loans and credit card loans being serviced. Generally, WaMu also received the right to cash flows remaining after the investors in the securitization trusts have received their contractual payments.
Confirmation that WAMU did indeed retain interests in it's securitizations and was entitled to receive the cash generated by those interests in Trust assets. Subordinated interests would be paid after the other investors were but the Senior interests would have been paid simultaneously.
https://www.hsgac.senate.gov//imo/media/doc/Financial_Crisis/FN107-1342.pdf?attempt=2
Sadly it's because they are being misled daily by posts that misinterpret clear facts.
I honestly don't have any concrete answers, it's all speculation based on limited facts. The $1.484B in profits is gone since it would have been used for funding WMB or WAMU in general. Hopefully when the bankruptcy and receivership closes we'll finally get some answers.
That's incorrect, TPS is not capped, they are treated exactly like PQ and KQ interests. TPS gets ~$1000 also for every $10B that returns, just like PQ's.
I've already addressed this baseless question multiple times. As I've stated before, if you didn't like my answer that's your issue, not mine.
- Do all securitization revenue belong to WMI only or some to WMB also?
I believe as CBA also stated that the proceeds would be pledged to WMI as the parent and would be infused into it's subs as needed.
- Why is it so low and why does it change? I thought it is accumulative if it is interest unless it is a one time sale?
What I believe they are referring to is the overall profit made from the sale of the MBS's to investors, not benefits from retained interests.
- How much of those securitization assets remain for us as of today?
Only those directly involved would know but from WAMU's last 10Q in 2008, they held ~$24B-$27B in mortgage based investments.
- Are securitized assets same as Safe Harbor assets?
Yes once the assets is deemed to have been "sold" (transferred) to an SPE thus removing control of the asset from the originator ie WMB. In 2008 the standard for qualifying an asset for Safe Harbor was much less stringent so most securitized assets (loans) did qualify.
This is just another attempt to legitimize the new theory that the WM Capital Trust 2001 is associated with COOP. In every document the WMILT is referred to as WMI's "Successor In Interest" and WMIH is the "Reorganized Debtor". It just defies logic and facts!!!
There are certain factoids that are not confirmable due to the lack of information. The issue of WMILT and WMIH is not one of them since it's literally stated in every document. This incessant nonsense being posted about the LT makes no sense and is not supported at all. The LT is not the reorganized debtor as is being claimed, but WMIH, now COOP is.
Read the POR...it's a sig, not a post.
In every document they refer to COOP as the reorganized debtor but of course our resident ""expert"" thinks otherwise. LOLOL
It's actually this simple...what proof is there that Preferred's have a FV of $1000 and possibly dividends? The answer is all rights of a security are laid out in their supporting documents. Guess what...that's why they were all voided along with the actual shares. They no longer exist so anyone who professes otherwise is FOS!
So using simple logic...how does 75%/25% not apply as of now since those new interests were made based on that agreement???
Yes those numbers are generally accurate. The slight variation will occur when you use the exact numbers of those who actually released.
Were our original WMI stock, ie Wampq, Wamkq and Wamuq's cancelled and were were reissued Preferred and Common Equity Interests or not?
Apparently facts no longer matter here.
Cannot revert to the Debtor (ie WMI estate) or reorganized Debtor (ie WMIH/COOP). The assets belong to those who released.
Yes BOB...since September 2008!!!
7.9% of $307B = $24.253B...eom
Based on CBA09's response to a similar question the answer is yes...WMI, as the parent company was entitled to all or part of the returns of Participating Interests held by it's indirect SPE subs such as WMAAC and WMMSC etc.
I'm not sure if in these cases there is a formal agreement that outlines the rights of the parent to this cash but it is conventional that WMI would have received the cash and distributed it to it's various subs as required.
The Trusts definitely exist, of that there is zero doubt, the issue is whether WAMU's retained interests in them still exist and can be reclaimed on behalf of our Markers.
Yes...this procedure is something I personally read while looking into the effects of bankruptcies on Trust beneficiaries.
Trust documents usually include a clause that ceases all payments to the Trust beneficiary once a bankruptcy petition is filed.
This, if I remember correctly, is done to prevent those Participating Interests from being arbitrarily seized by Creditors since they may qualify as Safe Harbor assets.
In our case ALL major Creditors were already paid without, it seems, the wholesale liquidation of WMI's assets at bargain prices.
"IF" such Participating Interests exist the release of those accumulated funds should restart once the last Creditor, Piers has been paid and the bankruptcy process officially closed.
NOTE: I will attempt to locate the document and post same to the board.
With the imminent closure of the bankruptcy and hopefully the receivership also we will finally see if there's was anything "behind the curtain". If things don't turn out how I expect well then there's always COOP.
Most of this case was UN-usual so it means you're correct...that's your expert analysis??? LOLOL
Nothing you wrote even came close to addressing a single claim in my post. A total waste of my time.
Post# 543826 in response to your post# 543812
Quote: "Any Trusts that WAMU retained an interest in for which cash returns were pledged to WMI will return to WMI after the bankruptcy is closed. WMI never owned any Trusts, only Participating Interests in those Trusts so that question is moot. When bankruptcy was filed in 2008 it was usual for entities in bankruptcy to stop receiving payments to secure those assets as stated in most Trust's documents. They would have continued to function, it's just that payments to the WMI estate would have ceased."
Ring any bells yet?
With COOP, i'm very confident, especially since the O/S is now <100M shares.
Other than the ~$40M left after Piers are paid off,...i'm cautiously optimistic about our "Escrows".
I believe next month, on or about November 9th.