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They keep quoting that WAMU had $300B+ in assets but conveniently omit the $270B+ in liabilities and that most of those assets were "gifted" to JPM for a minimal sum.
Those expecting $22000/PQ or other enormous sums will be 22 times more, or less, disappointed than I am since I hopefully expect a max of $1000/PQ.
Lots of apologies, from some here, and despair to come if it turns out we were wrong and bk, EXDIMER etc were correct all along.
From day one we've all been guilty of misreading and misinterpreting the documents because we are not professionals.
I can say with 100% certainty that those expecting more than $30B in assets to return are in for a rude awakening.
I hope that I am not also proven to be wrong with my $2B-$10B claim and we eventually only see a small return from the bankruptcy.
The facts do not support your claim, just because you posted it doesn't make it true.
While that would literally make me super rich, I am 100% sure that will never happen.
I believe we may see some returns, but it will not approach anything like that figure.
I still stand by my $2B-$10B estimation, with a slight possibility of as much as $24B.
No need for spin, I have all the posts where you asked and I in no way answered as you claimed so the facts are on my side. Making up stories again....
Re COOP, anyone who wishes to discuss that topic is free to, i'm not interested in discussing penny swings daily. When the fins come out in a few days that will peak my interest, not the current discourse.
If you got no reply how would you know I supposedly stated, I quote..."Trusts in 2000 to 04 were cancelled" ??? LOLOLOLOLOLOL
"Thou shalt not xxx" ???
You know full well I never said that, and have replied to your silly repititive post multiple times.
Btw ""genius"" Shares being cancelled does not equate to Trusts being cancelled.
To you maybe, but not in the real world.
I can because you did in fact lie and you know it!
Yes and those Equity Interests, which were transferred to those who released, represent our ownership of any Debtors (WMI + WMIIC) assets that remain. It all belongs to us, if assets actually exist.
Can't respond to the subject matter?...change the subject to some totally irrelevant topic. Good one.....
Servicing?...I thought they were purchasing assets with COOP shares for the S4V???
Did you even bother to read my post?...apparently not. I'm referring specifically to the tripe posted daily about $100's billions coming from banks that have ZERO to do with our Markers. Posting random offerings from the Royal Bank of Scotland and Citi does not qualify as DD.
As you said Free Speech! I'm simply exercising my right to state those wild claims by RD are BS.
Just more proffered nonsense.
Seems only when those Subordinated Claims and Postpetition interest is 100% paid only then any excess will flow to Equity. AZ was correct, any proceeds left from the bankruptcy after Piers etc, followed by Subordinated Claims are paid, will be REDISTRIBUTED to us, not via LTI's. Only if additional assets eg Safe Harbor assets become available to the WMILT will LTI's be issued to Equity holders.
Confirmation Order pg 58
22.2 Limitation on Recovery: Notwithstanding anything contained herein to the contrary, including, without limitation, the distributions to be made to a holder of an Allowed Subordinated Claim in accordance with Section 22.1 of the Plan, in the event that the sum of Cash received on account of Liquidating Trust Interests in accordance with Section 22.1 are equal to or in excess of one hundred percent (100%) of such holder’s Allowed Subordinated Claim and Postpetition Interest Claim, the Cash received on account of Liquidating Trust Interests that is distributable to such holder in excess of such one hundred percent (100%) shall be deemed redistributed to holders of the Equity Interests or the Disbursing Agent for and on behalf of holders of Disputed Claims in accordance with the Subordination Model attached hereto as Exhibit “H”.
Wrong!...that's my "pie in the sky" assertion that the FDIC withheld those assets from the JPM when WMB was sold, not from Citi, GS, RBS, BofA or any of the nonsensical companies you quote daily. Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) is my favorite. LOL
What do you not get!!! IT'S NOT OUR $MONEY$. All the info you post daily is irrelevant to us period!!!
Nice post Dm, never saw that info before. What other Class 18 claims could they be referring to in the 2017 10K, most of which were settled for $15M, with the rest being deemed disputed claims and still to be litigated??? (See posts 545279 + 545281 for reference)
That's another $15M to be paid plus whatever happens after the disputed claims litigation (more delay) before we see a cent.
Accordingly, holders of Misrepresentation Claims would be entitled to receive their Pro Rata Share of Liquidating Trust Interests only if their Misrepresentation Claims were deemed Allowed Claims and recoveries were to reach Class 18 (Subordinated Claims). The Bankruptcy Court expressly preserved the rights and defenses of all parties, including the Debtors’ with respect to the validity and amount of the WMB Subordinated Notes Claims, including the Misrepresentation Claims.
By order, dated January 19, 2012, the Bankruptcy Court approved a stipulation and agreement by and among the Debtors and certain holders of WMB Notes Claims (as defined in the Plan) that asserted Misrepresentation Claims, providing, among other things, that such holders would receive an Allowed Subordinated Claim (as defined in the Plan) in the aggregate amount of $15 million on account of the claims asserted by such claimants and, furthermore, that such claimants withdraw, with prejudice, any appeal of the Court’s order. The Trust believes that the majority of the outstanding Misrepresentation Claims have been resolved pursuant to such settlement agreement. The remaining holders of Misrepresentation Claims remain unliquidated and disputed. The Trust will litigate its prior objections to these claims should recoveries reach Class 18 (Subordinated Claims).
The problem a lot of people here have is tunnel vision, in that they believe what happens has to take one specific path. For example, it's like believing 2 can only be arrived at by adding 1 + 1. Obviously there are infinitesimal ways 2 could be arrived at but not for these folks. The same applies to this case where the old rules were voided and new ones instituted via the POR.
IMO we may see the order officially filed in a few days. I initially thought the attorney issue derailed the progress of Piers payments. It doesn't appear this will affect that issue. The LT may just hold back the funds necessary to cover the fees attorneys are claiming.
AIMHO
Do you or anyone else know how much attorney's fees is being requested by the employees counsel???
I actually agree with that analysis. The attorney fees issue does not hamper the distribution to Piers so long as JMW signs the WMILT proposed order.
The specific salaries and benefits/perks of employees, especially upper management, is not public info. Seems like a non issue being overhyped to create an excuse for more delays.
So closure of the bankruptcy is now being held up by an "attorneys fees" matter...WOW! I didn't see that coming!
My extremely ("pie in the sky") optimistic expectation for returns is ~$20B, however realistically I see us being compensated much much much less than that.
I honestly don't know how those expecting $30B-$100B+ will deal with it when those clearly unrealistic predictions don't materialize.
QUESTION.....
Honestly speaking, whom here would be genuinely disappointed IF.....
1) Instead of the $10B/$20B/$50B/$100B+ that some confidently await, we only receive $1B-$2B back or less???
2) That $1B-$2B return was shared according to the POR, 75%/25% between Preferred and Commons respectively???
To be fair I misquoted the LTI part, he actually said Class 17(b) CAN NOT be issued LTI's.
He did state however that Class 17(b) is next in line after Piers and since they CAN NOT be issued LTI's we will not be issued LTI's. Huh????
Amazing...LOLOL
ATTENTION ALL...VVIP INFO
We will NOT be issued LTI's so we can receive our distribution of the ~$40M left with the WMILT after Piers are paid in full.
One of the reasons being Class 17(b), which is an FDIC,...NOT WMILT debt is next in line to be paid...please direct all further inquiries to the poster below.
Post 544893 by AZ....
1st; ... Next Up’, is Tranche 5 WMB Class 17(b) and they’ Can Not Be Issued An LTI’ from the WMI-LT ... obviously WMB Class 17 qualified, simply because the WMB Class 17(a) were already Issued WMI, LTI’s for the recovery payment of their fees & expenses ...
2nd; ... the last WMI Senior Debt Creditor, (WMI Tranche 4 Class 16) ... will never’ exceed its $50.00 “face amount” ... the PIERS were capped’ ...
3rd; ... the WMI-LT does not have, nor care to keep, current contact information, beyond an existing LTI holder’ ... just simply ask them’ ... not me’
If they exist yes. A QSR is a bankruptcy document while Safe Harbor assets are bankruptcy remote. Those assets, if any exist, cannot be accounted for in any bankruptcy process or document once the bankruptcy is still active and creditors are still owed..
Also read up on Liquidation Basis of Accounting, which the LT uses, described in every WMILT QSR. They make it very clear that only assets in liquidation or soon to be liquidated is accounted for ie only when the LT is in the possession of said assets and ready to liquidate or have liquidated them will it be represented in the QSR.
Do not take my word for it, read the documents and see for yourself whether my assessment is correct or wrong. Too much misinformation is being purported as facts.
100% Opinion vs Quoted Facts....guess which is credible.
Class 17(b) is next in line for LTI's...Really??? LOLOLOLOLOL
That is the most nonsensical so far. SMH
Half of that last post was irrelevant...deflection?
The refusal to answer questions says it all...cannot support claims because they are false.
Now the claim is that WMB Class 17(b) Bonds which are a liability of the FDIC, are next in line to receive LTI's from the WMILT, not our Markers. This is hilarious.....
I will repost again...once current LTI's receive their $51.5M we will be issued LTI's to receive the excess ~$40M. Can you not comprehend that simple statement???
Class 17(b) has NOTHING to do with the WMILT and are not next in line, they are an FDIC liability, WTH are you talking about??? Read the POR...It get worse with each post. LOLOL
Pg 11 of QSR.....
1) Liquidating Trust Interests are not issued to holders of subordinated claims and equity interests. Additional LTIs will only be issued to holders of subordinated claims and equity interests if proceeds exceed the face amounts issued to current LTI holders.
Answer the question...Are QSR's Bankruptcy documents and if yes, how could Bankruptcy Remote Safe Harbor assets be reported in them????????
Pg 11 of QSR.....
NOTES
1) Liquidating Trust Interests are not issued to holders of subordinated claims and equity interests. Additional LTIs will only be issued to holders of subordinated claims and equity interests if proceeds exceed the face amounts issued to current LTI holders.
We will be issued LTI's because there will be excess funds of ~$30M-$40M. Reading lessons seem to be required!
As for the LT they only pay taxes on cash they generate, any assets liquidated and passed to our Markers, the beneficiary will be responsible for those taxes. Cease the fake DD already. LOLOL
Btw...are QSR's Bankruptcy documents, and if so, how can Bankruptcy Remote Safe Harbor assets be recorded in them??????
This answer, if I actually get one, should be epic!!!
The LT being a "pass thru" simply means that the LT will not hold onto assets but liquidate and pass the cash to beneficiaries. Again misinterpretation of basic available info.
We will be issued LTI's because that's the only mechanism by which we can receive cash, as the LT has stated in every QSR, including the one filed yesterday which I posted for all to see.
Everyone who believes that there are Safe Harbor assets acknowledge that they are bankruptcy remote, yet you seem to insist that since the LT does not include them in the QSR they do not belong to the LT. It can't be both, it's either there are no Safe Harbor assets or there are, but they cannot be included in the LT's QSR since it's a BANKRUPTCY DOCUMENT.
The WMILT is sole successor in interest to the Debtors, WMI and WMIIC, which means ALL ASSETS owned by both now belong to the LT for our benefit. It is irrelevant whether those assets were bankruptcy or bankruptcy remote assets, the WMILT are the sole owners, NOT COOP as it seems you assert. This is 100% backed by CBA09, a poster with real credibility!!!.
Read it again...they aren't just referring to the usual LTI statements.
"outlining the respective roll-forward activity through 11/01/18"
Correct...that should have been 28.5 months. eom
From the QSR...."Holders of Liquidating Trust Interests will receive statements of their individual LTI holdings outlining the respective roll-forward activity through 11/01/18.
Creditors will start being informed of payments from Nov 1st.
QUOTE: "- Payment is distributed via LTI and not escrow CUSIP"
Pg 11 of QSR.....
NOTES
Holders of Liquidating Trust Interests will receive statements of their individual LTI holdings outlining the respective roll-forward activity through 11/01/18.
1) Liquidating Trust Interests are not issued to holders of subordinated claims and equity interests. Additional LTIs will only be issued to holders of subordinated claims and equity interests if proceeds exceed the face amounts issued to current LTI holders.
QUOTE: "During the quarter ended September 30, 2018, the Trust incurred operating expenses of $1.5 million. Based on the approved budget and current conditions, management estimates total expenses for the remainder of the Trust to be approximately $14.2 million."
Using an average quarterly operating expense of $1.5M and a budget of $14.2M till the LT closes,...they intend to operate the Trust for about 9.5 quarters ie 37.5 months (or less) from October 1, 2018.
NOTE: With the close of the employee claims litigation, their quarterly operating expenses should be much lower than $1.5M.
I agree...IMO once the last Creditor, Piers is paid we should find out soon after if there are actually Safe Harbor assets or that our theories were all hogwash.
RE PM....
Fair enough, it's been hashed and rehashed for far too long.
Any thoughts on how the Employee claims case plays out and COOP's pps trajectory once the financials are made public?