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I can see that only if that part of the Matrix was overlooked and not changed to Equity Claims. Either way face value is null and void unless exactly, and only $10B comes back.
This may be what they meant, in that any allowed claims in Tranche 6, ie the Preferred Claims, would be shared 75%/25% between Prefs and Commons.
Quote: "Annex C to the Agreement was revised to clarify those holders of Preferred Equity Interests and Common Equity Interests will be issued Liquidating Trust Interests in Tranche 6 on account of those interests when Tranche 2 through Tranche 5 Liquidating Trust Interests have been satisfied in full, AND that the distribution to Tranche 6 will be shared 75% and 25% pro rata between claims on account of Preferred Equity Interests and Common Equity Interests, respectively."
Reread the post you responded to, it never referenced Commons or 75/25 so i'm not sure what you're referring to.
Read the POR...ALL prior rights of Preferred and Commons are gone...cancelled...voided.
They can no longer claim those rights to receive prior benefits after the ED on March 19, 2012.
There is only 75%/25% for all future assets, unless bankruptcy assets are excluded as the Waterfall Matrix seems to suggest.
When do the NOLS disappear and name one Trust, just one, that was "class segregated" to Preferred's or Commons??? Less exalting of one's self but rather more facts are required.
NOTE: Only the Trust Preferred Securities (TPS) were supported by actual Trust assets, but those were stripped upon the "Exchange Event" and went to JPM. This occurred because according to the TPS docs and OTS rules those assets were deemed to be "core capital" to the bank, WMB. The investors securities were then converted into WMI Preferred stock, now known as REITS...100% FACT!
So far $15M owed to Class 18 claimants with some (minority) possibly still to be litigated.
WMILT 2018/10/30 QSR
Quote: "By order, dated January 19, 2012, the Bankruptcy Court approved a stipulation and agreement by and among the Debtors and certain holders of WMB Notes Claims (as defined in the Plan) that asserted Misrepresentation Claims, providing, among other things, that such holders would receive an Allowed Subordinated Claim (as defined in the Plan) in the aggregate amount of $15 million on account of the claims asserted by such claimants and, furthermore, that such claimants withdraw, with prejudice, any appeal of the Court’s order. The Trust believes that the majority of the outstanding Misrepresentation Claims have been resolved pursuant to such settlement agreement. The remaining holders of Misrepresentation Claims remain unliquidated and disputed. The Trust will litigate its prior objections to these claims should recoveries reach Class 18 (Subordinated Claims)."
When ALL the Reits, PQ and KQ documents were voided in 2012, all claims to previous value were also voided.
Reits have no valid claim to be "paid in full", ie their $4B face value, and neither does PQ's ($3B) or KQ's ($500M).
Not sure why they used the term "Preferred Claim" for Tranche 6 since I don't believe Commons could be referred to as such.
If "Equity Claims" was used instead then one could confidently assume such claims included Preferred and Commons.
If this wasn't just generic terminology, then Commons possibly may not receive a distribution from the remaining bankruptcy assets...???
Cue the outrage......
NOTE: I don't believe equal treatment applies to Tranches, but rather Classes of debt, ie Preferred are Class 19 while Commons are Class 22.
EDIT: Tbh the only pieces of info I want is whether there are assets or not and how much it's worth. Once those questions are answered and it's positive, the timing is not an issue for me personally.
1) Allowed Rule 510b Subordinated claims (at least $15M so far)
2) Preferred Stock claims (???)
as per Exhibit H, the Waterfall Recovery Matrix on pg 219 of 767 (PDF copy) in the Confirmation Order.
If i remember correctly members of the same class, ie Reits, PQ + KQ, cannot be treated differently. The only other payment Reits were due to receive was from JPMC.
Pdf 73-74/767 of Confirmation order.....
Quote: "In addition, and separate and distinct from the distribution to be provided to holders of the Preferred Equity Interests from the Debtors, pursuant to the Global Settlement Agreement, and in exchange for the releases set forth in the Global Settlement Agreement and in Article XLI herein, on the Effective Date, JPMC shall pay, or transfer to the Disbursing Agent, for payment to each Releasing REIT Trust Holder its pro rata share of Fifty Million Dollars ($50,000,000.00),"
No...maybe someone can post a link to the full 767 page Confirmation Order. It's on pdf pg 219.
Who believes we could receive a distribution from the DB settlement with the FDIC for Senior and/or Subordinated interests WMI/WMIIC may have held in those Trusts, after their bankruptcies are closed?
On page 219 of 767-Exhibit H (Payout Matrix) in the Confirmation Order, what are they referring to in Tranche 6 as Preferred Claims, located at the bottom of the right column???
I've seen at least $15M worth that were already settled by the LT which represents the majority of the sub. claims.
The LT also indicated that the remaining disputed sub. claims would be litigated when the situation arises.
Did the employees file anything re JMW's ruling on the 16/08/18??? I believe the 21 day extension has already elapsed.
Read the COOP filing...they expect to pay 3% tax instead of the normal 24% rate. The NOLS are obviously still active.
So NO S4V and the NOLS are NOT gone!
Imagine my surprise!!!
How would they accomplish that?...they can't pass anything since they only control the House.
This is definitely the most garbage I've ever seen in one post.
The constant metamorphosis of these theories are amazing...now "Trust" dividends from COOP are to be paid to shareholders. Just sit back, relax and watch as each "well studied" prediction fails to materialize.
It could be <$40M because Class 17(b) and 18 have mostly settled claims with the LT that must be paid before equity.
At this point it looks more like $20-$25M will be available for distribution to equity, or possibly much less.
These payments are separate from the billions in debt still owed to WMB Bonds, Classes 17(a) + (b), by the FDIC.
It's difficult to find an adequate response to rubbish points that make ZERO sense. Try being relevant.
Cite any post where I stated WMI had no assets...you can't because i never did. 100% false.
Quote: "Trusts 2005=6=7=8 & 9, 3 BEFORE bankruptcy."
Explain what your point is instead of these vague one line posts. I'll wait.....
Truth?...more like empty rhetoric.
We already know the remaining value in the bankruptcy estate based on the last QSR, ~$100M, of that there's little to no debate.
Outside of the bankruptcy is where, if assets actually exist, will be where the lion's share of value will emanate from.
If I read the June 2008 WAMU 10Q correctly WAMU owned securitized mortgage based assets with a then market value of ~$26B.
A study of the FDIC document in post 518718 potentially shows the FDIC retained these assets on their books sold to JPM.
The alternative to that theory would be that the FDIC/JPM wrote down the value of WMB assets seized by over $40B...$298B in WMB assets were seized with only $258B being transferred to JPM.
My view that we receive $2B-$10B back is based on past WMI/WMB revenue sharing agreements akin to how the tax benefits were divided.
This means that if $26B is still there JPM and the LT will share in the returns from those assets if/when they are sold.
AIMHO
You never answered my last question so i'll ask a third time,...What do you believe happened to the remaining assets that weren't transferred to the WMILT on the Effective Date?
Also, what is the significance of JA at this point in the bankruptcy case?
I will respond once you explain exactly what you mean.
JA and Rule 1015(b) are Matt's magic potions. LOL eom
So the Final Payment theory turned out to be wrong?...what a shocker!!!
Did you mean assets that belonged to WMI or did not belong to WMI? Assets that belonged to WMI were subject to the bk court except for any that were bk remote ie Safe Harbor.
The FDIC has no jurisdiction over WMI owned assets, only those that were owned by WMB. What we need to determine is whether there are WMI assets, wholly or partly owned, that were sequestered once the company filed for bankruptcy protection.
My interpretation of what I posted was that LT Assets represent ALL assets owned by the Debtors whether bk remote or not. Even if as Matt claimed, only "certain" assets were transferred to the LT, that does not relieve WMI's ownership rights to the assets that were not transferred.
You constantly imply that JA is some kind of "Super Rule" that applies to everything.
Please explain how JA applies to Safe Harbor assets and how will assets return to CANCELLED former equity???
You do acknowledge that old WMI stock, including Commons (wamuq) were voided right?
The fact is you can't because it doesn't apply and old equity rights were terminated.
The only applicable method of distributing cash is according to the Matrix, nothing else!
NOTE: I'll ask again, if only "certain" Debtor assets were transferred to the LT on the Effective Date in 2012...what happened to the remaining assets that were not transferred and was it because they were Bankruptcy Remote? Hint,...neither JA nor Rule 1015(b) is the answer!
Before I respond, could you please explain what you believe happened to the remaining assets that weren't transferred to the WMILT on the Effective Date?
The quote stated that only "certain" Debtor Assets were transferred, meaning, those that weren't transferred could possibly have been Bankruptcy Remote Assets?
A clear distinction was made above that the assets belonged to the Debtors, ie WMI + WMIIC, hence they could not be sold or owned by COOP (WMIH).
The only logical reason for what occurred was that the remaining assets could not be transferred to the WMILT while the bankruptcy cases were still before the court.
Once the bankruptcy cases are closed there will be no further impediments preventing those assets from being returned to their rightful owners, the WMILT.
WMITRUST...FAQ's Pg 2...read slowly!
2. What are the Liquidating Trust Assets
The assets that are to be held and distributed by the Liquidating Trust (the “Liquidating Trust Assets”) comprise all of the assets of Washington Mutual, Inc. (“WMI”) and WMI Investment Corp. (“WMI Investment” and together with WMI, the “Debtors”)) as of March 19, 2012 (the “Effective Date”), other than:
(e) the equity interests in (i) WMI Investment (all the assets of which shall be contributed to the Liquidating Trust, including any Intercompany Claims), (ii) WM Mortgage Reinsurance Company (“WMMRC”), and (iii) Washington Mutual Bank (the stock in Washington Mutual Bank was worthless and was abandoned by WMI shortly before the Effective Date).
What's the current OS of COOP....~90M shares? So the shares aren't missing after all are they!
That entire post was predominantly fluff, innuendo and speculation with little to zero facts. A few questions.....
1) Where did the FDIC get $260B in WMB assets to transfer to JPM as documented? See document in post 518718 for reference.
2) Did MW conduct the negotiations by himself or was it a group effort on the part of the entire EC?
3) Cite the exact page where it states the LT is paying $30M in taxes/qtr?
TIA
Carefully read any post where I reference over my long held $2B-$10B figure. I always or almost always (omission by error) state that is my overly optimistic guesstimate by which I mean I don't have much faith it will happen. I do respect the opinions of both Dr. A and CBA immensely,....but, both as you know were never privy to any privileged or material info upon which valid claims could be based. Look at it this way.....
$0-$40M : 100% Assured
$100M-$2B : Likely
$2B-$10B : Possible
$10B-$24B : Somewhat Possible, but very unlikely (<20%)
$30B-$50B : Impossible
$50B+ : WILL NEVER HAPPEN !!!
EDIT: TARP funds came from the FED/Govt, what did that have to do with WAMU??? That's a new one.
I've been here since 2008 so I've pretty much seen it all, the highs to the low lows. The only thing I want now is to know once and for all whether there are additional assets or not. If there are, excellent, or if not, only the presentation of concrete facts will finally bare this out. I believe my sentiments are shared by virtually everyone who has a vested interest here.
What I want is irrelevant since I nor any of us can affect the outcome.... it's a done deal. Learn to live with it!
My only "agenda" is to try to bring some semblance of reality to the board, instead of joining the chorus of fairy tales being told.
Edit: Me telling someone their theory is garbage is not in any way an infringement on their right or ability to post said garbage. Comprehension skills are lacking!!!
I don't think JPM received everything owned by WMB and also WMI owned assets may be available, as clearly evidenced by my belief that we could possibly see $2B-$10B in returns.
What I cannot do is dismiss outright those such as bk who claim there is little left, the evidence of $10's of billions is not based in facts but rather speculation.
I'm not the one making the grandiose claims of "AT LEAST" $42B returning, that would be you. Therefore it's incumbent on YOU to provide supporting facts, not I.