Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Post 547024.....
I'm not worried in the least, I was simply responding to a question posed by jerry.
Quote: "How does the "performing trusts" have the list of people who used to own WAMU stock when it was gone 6 years ago? Actually it has to be 10 years because after a bankruptcy then all new investors do not count.
But it does not matter, how do the "performing trusts" have that list of people, one or the other list? How do the "performing trusts" pay? It cannot be through the brokerage since the stocks are gone..."
Cite when and how much cash we have ever received from the Trustee of any Bk remote Safe Harbor Trust. We were never discussing the WMILT, wrong Trustee! May I suggest actually reading the whole thread so your offerings could be relevant to the discussion.
Actually it's only the Trustee that will know who the investors are because they are the ones that sells the MBS's to investors, the bank is not involved in this transaction.
Take DB for example, they are the ones who will make payments to the individual investors and any entity that retained participating interests in the loans.
We who released were never direct investors in these Trusts so the Trustee would not have our personal information.
The Trustee would only recognize the WMILT as the sole beneficiary of any WMI retained interest as it's legal successor to these payments.
The WMILT would then transfer these payments to us or our brokers from their records as was it's stated mandate.
Giving us an answer in plain English, not the usual vague postings....
1) What does COOP have to do with any cash from the Debtors, ie WMI + WMIIC, retained interests in performing Trusts???
2) Are you officially stating that COOP is entitled to all OR a share of these Trust payments that have been accumulating since 2008???
TIA
Any cash generated by retained interests in Trusts would have gone to WMI directly or indirectly via the subs WMAAC or WMMSC which held the participating interests.
The Trustees would have ZERO info on and nothing to do with us holders who now indirectly own those interests through the WMILT.
To them we do not exist, they only recognize the interest indirectly owned by WMI, IF ANY EXISTS.
Our interests will only be represented by the WMILT by being the "successor in interest" of WMI/WMIIC and now owners of those retained interests.
The Trustees would have no clue who we are!!!
Wouldn't the removal of the "No distribution for November" message indicate that it may no longer apply and the "Special Distribution" Rosen mentioned will occur?
Have you received your LTI statement for November yet?
See post 546909 by Dmdm for what would be considered actual DD,...whether right or wrong it took actual effort and thoughtful research to compile that information for everyone's benefit.
Constantly responding to every one of my posts by ""screaming"" about "OFF BALANCE ASSETS" and "TRUSTS 2006-09 PRE BANKRUPTCY" does not engender any validity in your contributions, from my perspective.
Have all Creditors of Lehman been paid as is the case of WMI Creditors (Piers debt is covered by DCR so it's essentially paid)???
It seems that we are in a much better position than those who hold Lehman equity based on my limited knowledge of that Bk case.
When exactly have these ""facts"" been presented that show how much interest in these Trusts did WMI own??? We have seen proof that WAMU retained interests in Trusts but not once has an exact value been factually presented. Also, no one seems to know whether these interests are still there or what happened to them. This is the issue, we have no real facts.
Your post would better serve those that throw tantrums when predictions fail to materialize and attack posters, such as myself, for countering these grandiose claims of $100's of billions to come. Those are the individuals i am referring to, not ones such as yourself, apparently, who show some rationality.
Lehman had well over $600B in assets when they filed for bankruptcy, more than twice that of WAMU so your comparison is misleading.
To date, how much of this "found" money has gone to Equity holders???
I am somewhat skeptically open to as much as $26.2B in available assets based on the FDIC document in post 518718.
The argument can be made that the FDIC withheld these WMB assets from JPM for the benefit of the Receivership.
Even with this being the case the FDIC owes a WMB Bond debt of $13.8B which will have to be paid from those assets.
That potentially leaves ~$12.4B remaining to be distributed to Equity which is relatively close to my max estimate of $10B.
Conversely, the documented figures could actually represent the depreciated value of the assets transferred to JPM.
At this point it's all pure speculation!!!
In open court i would agree to some extent but here with bankruptcy and FDIC rules applying we are at a major disadvantage, as clearly evidenced by the failure of the Employees to gain relief from said entities.
All forensic accounting at this point is/was being done by the FDIC as is their mandate. The outcome is already decided re bankruptcy assets and we should soo find out whether there are Safe Harbor assets or not. We voluntarily released so there will be no forensic accounting driven by equity to determine what assets are available, if any.
Constantly posting the same tripe isn't DD...it provides nothing useful that could be analyzed.
No values, no info on retained percentages by WMI, no info on what happened to those assets,...it's pointless!!!
IMO we could see two separate distributions from the WMILT, from the bankruptcy estate via LTI's and bankruptcy remote Safe Harbor assets via ???, not sure.
Bankruptcy estate: We could see about $30M distributed to our markers @ a 75%/25% ratio. This would give Commons 25% X $30M = $7.5M. This would give the 1.2B Commons that released ~$0.0063/share ie $7.5M/1.2B shares. You would receive 400K X $0.0063/share = $2520.
Safe Harbor assets: My expectations are $2B-$10B return to our markers. Using a median return of $5B Commons 25% share would be $5B X 25% = $1.25B. The return per released Common share will be $1.25B/1.2B shares = $1.04/share. $400K X $1.04 = $416000 for your holdings.
If more or less comes back calculate the return based on the $5B figure above. Hopefully our theories are at least somewhat correct
Notice the controversial claims are never addressed, only known info that has never been contested by anyone is regurgitated over and over.
"The NOLS are gone, COOP receiving WMI cash/assets, "I will never be issued an LTI, the LT not owning WMI bk remote assets etc etc.
Next to be paid are allowed 510(b) subordinated claims, after those comes equity.
Last I checked 100% equity interests in WMIIC were transferred to WMIH after the ED in 2012, not WMI.
WMIH also received the equity interests in WMMRC and the NOLS...fact! WMI received the assets of WMIIC as part of the plan which left WMIIC asset-less as WMIH stated on multiple occasions.
Obvious conflation of Washington Mutual (WAMU = WMI + WMB) with WMIH, which is incorrect. WMIH (now COOP) has no claim on anything formerly owned by WAMU...ie WMI or WMB.
Apparently anyone who does not believe in the S4V theory made the "wrong choices" in 2012.
I do believe in the WMI estate and COOP, I just don't accept some of the crap being posted here as the truth. Ever wondered why some here would falsely suggest that COOP is set to receive Billions in legacy assets/cash??? The motive is clear imo.
Been trying for months to explain to BOB that the LT can only Liquidate it's assets into cash, but to no avail. Too invested in this S4V nonsense to accept what the LT Agreement actually states in plain English.
Quote: "...you refuse to see LIQUIDATE does NOT ALWAYS INDICATE SELLING FOR CASH!!!!!!!"
You may want to reread post 546450 since it seems you did not, I said the exact same thing you just claimed I didn't...simply amazing!
What you seem to not comprehend is the LT states exactly what assets will be converted into...it's CASH not shares for that silly S4V theory.
Liquidate, convert to cash and distribute is similarly saying,...I walked, ran and travelled to get to work...commas do not represent "OR".
The usual useless innuendo and empty rhetoric means nothing and will not make this S4V fantasy theory any more realistic or plausible.
THE WMILT's STATED MANDATE.....
TO LIQUIDATE, CONVERT TO CASH AND DISTRIBUTE TO BENEFICIARIES.
It plainly says convert to CASH LG, not shares.
I actually do and it's exactly what I said...liquidate the assets, then convert them to cash and finally distribute them. Liquidate does not necessarily mean to convert to cash which I assume many here believe it only means. They included convert to cash to confirm what it is to be liquidated into. See definition below...where is cash mentioned???
LIQUIDATE: wind up the affairs of (a business) by ascertaining liabilities and apportioning assets.
SYNONYMS: close down, wind up, put into liquidation, dissolve, break up, disband, terminate
How much cash have we received so far or will receive from JPM, GS, RBS, DB, WF, BofA etc etc. The fact is ZERO and that will remain ZERO as it's all rubbish.
Oak???...LOLOL. Whatever......Btw it's BULLY. Just saying.
Claimed by multiple posters...the History function is there for a purpose. Make use of it!
Quote: "WMI Owns 100% of the Equity Interest In WMIIC"
It's actually WMIH, the reorganized debtor that received 100% equity interests in WMIIC,...the assets of which were transferred to the WMILT.
WMI/WMIIC = WMILT...NOT COOP. You should know that!
EDIT: Nice dodge! WM = WAMU = WMI + WMB + all Subs. Nothing to do with WMIH, the Newco.
Yet again a failure to gain some context which ultimately results in more senseless posts. If this babble makes sense to you, well...very telling!
RD's Quote:"Forget statements of Delgado(CFO of COOP) can be added to the list of snakes JD, BR, JMW, ASAP, Hotmeat, MW, Catz, Jerry, the list goes on. They continue their avoidance of the deliverance of fiduciary responsibility to the Share Holder. This criminal activity continues under the guise of "National Security" They should be ashamed of this white collar crime. I hope they get prosecuted to the full extent of the Law but JMO that it will prove to be too big to prosecute. They have destroyed my belief as a professor in a capitalist system that has fallen into a dysfunctional and corrupt system. Just think this happened in this country, so disappointing.
Dr.B "
Servicing loans is not an accumulation of assets, they do not own them. All COOP does is collect payments for a fee and transfers the bulk of the cash to the bank that hired them. The exception are the loans they originated themselves where that cash stays in house but that portion is small compared to their entire portfolio.
EDIT: At least make an attempt to post something useful instead of the usual tripe.
Do you read anything before you post? Let me clarify.....
1) Some claim COOP is already holding, as in owns legacy assets...WRONG! Servicing maybe, not own.
2) Some claim COOP could purchase WMI assets...Possible since that's what they do but it will be with cash, nor shares, ie NO S4V!!!
3) Some claim when assets become available COOP is entitled to them...UTTER BS
Getting careful??? Actually is you read and understood my post correctly you wouldn't be making such inane claims!
Actually the truth is offensive to some here, the result being foolish accusations being made of conspiracy theories.
Do the math...before NSM had anything to do with WMIH they already were servicing $500B+ in mortgages/loans. Unless JPM hired NSM to sub-service loans they acquired in the WMB purchase, there are none. Servicing loans is not ownership of interests as AZ and others seem to claim COOP has. It's 100% wrong.
COOP just filed quarterly results, where are the profits from the WMI assets they supposedly own? There are none because they own nothing, which if they did, has to be publicly reported as per Nasdaq requirements.
I did read it and immediately discarded it as pure nonsense. That opinion means nothing as with every post where billions in other banks money is claimed to be ours. Zero credibility!!!
If there are substantial WMI assets that could be purchased I agree COOP could indeed do so. My only disagreement here is when it's claimed that the purchase will be made using shares ie the S4V. This IMO will never occur due to the LT's mandate, among other reasons.
A poster on this board asked COOP's IR whether the company was pursuing or presently holding WMI estate assets and the answer was NO!
Are you asserting that COOP's IR was not telling the truth?...which would IMO be an SEC violation.
From these posts it appears they are claiming that COOP owns the interests in legacy WMI assets, not just merely servicing them.
That theory is just farcical.
Quote: " IMO, no Estate trust assets have been turned over to COOP in the 3rd. Quarter."
Kindly explain why COOP would be entitled to any WMI estate assets? This is one of the most foolish claims being made on this board.
I'm honestly not sure what the claims refer exactly to or that it means Prefs will see FV. Not enough info.
Theory: "No...~I will not be issued an LTI'.."
Fact: "Annex C to the Agreement was revised to clarify those holders of Preferred Equity Interests and Common Equity Interests will be issued Liquidating Trust Interests in Tranche 6 on account of those interests when Tranche 2 through Tranche 5 Liquidating Trust Interests have been satisfied in full, AND that the distribution to Tranche 6 will be shared 75% and 25% pro rata between claims on account of Preferred Equity Interests and Common Equity Interests, respectively."
Misunderstanding the language below seems to be the source of the confusion. It states, any excess remaining after Class 18 Sub. Claims are 100% satisfied, will be DEEMED a Redistribution to Equity. It never states Equity will not be issued LTI's as Annex C above clearly outlines.
"22.2 Limitation on Recovery: Notwithstanding anything contained herein to the contrary, including, without limitation, the distributions to be made to a holder of an Allowed Subordinated Claim in accordance with Section 22.1 of the Plan, in the event that the sum of Cash received on account of Liquidating Trust Interests in accordance with Section 22.1 are equal to or in excess of one hundred percent (100%) of such holder’s Allowed Subordinated Claim and Post-petition Interest Claim, the Cash received on account of Liquidating Trust Interests that is distributable to such holder in excess of such one hundred percent (100%) shall be deemed redistributed to holders of the Equity Interests or the Disbursing Agent for and on behalf of holders of Disputed Claims in accordance with the Subordination Model attached hereto as Exhibit “H”."
I believe the WMILT!!!