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It has been. By Renee.
The one distinction is that the one stock that technically made it off the greys (that many, inlcuding me, refer to) did not survive anyways.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=79827252
Your family cares ALOT more about you than the money.
And yes...if they are in a deep hole they are good. I won't argue that. Maybe they will want to be credited with the first ever pink sheet revival to market maker trading.
Of course they don't. But to extrapolate the fact they have "named" a lawyer to mean that it therefore cannot be a scam is ridiculous. How would the lawyers even know?
So? Analogy still holds.
Come on. That is like saying a defense lawyer would not represent a client if they thought they were guilty? The lawyers don't ask and don't care. They get paid to represent.
Well, I'll give you this much, releasing unaudited numbers while under investigation would be a bold move.
I doubt you will see anything while under the suspension, he probably needs to spend most of his time with his lawyers and not his accountants for the next few weeks.
I am fairly certain that JR knows why at this moment.
So you don't need it to be audited?
Yes, EMGE got out...but anyone can go and see what happen then. Not good. LLEG has filed an S1 and three amendments and is 14 months out from the suspension. Having followed my former pink closely I think it is worth noting that they had an a agreement with company to register shares that were used to purchase a property or they had to pay a monthly penalty. They are bleeding cash right now until they get them registered.
One thing we saw with the S1 was that almost every aspect of the "financials" we were given pre-suspension was a warped caricature of the reality.
There is more integrity in pink sheet stocks...
Garyst, I would be interested to know how many investors have benefited from your wait and see advice for a suspended pink? Can you refer to any charts? Any stock examples? at what point does one make a decision? What warning sign?
I am truly interested. I am still looking for a suspended pink that has a grey sheet chart that looks good over some period of time. Or are you expecting KMAG to be the exception? What are they waiting to see?
In the past ten years, there is only one that has been identified. There is a process to go through and it takes a lot of time. Most don't even try. in the past two years about 600 stocks have been suspended by the SEC. So far, none have returned. One that was suspended in June, 2011 has issued an S1 with three amendments, but is still sitting on the greys at 0.0001/no bid...it is not easy.
And for the bonus question...how are they doing today?
I think she replied...no they can't. It is important to know that the SEC does not care about the "business" at all. Good, bad, or indifferent. They only focus on the publically traded entity KMAG.
Again...for the umpteenth time...I am talking about suspended pinks, that is the ONLY relevant comparison. An ADR is about as different from a suspended pink as a treasury bond is from my uncle Henry's IOU.
Sorry..it made me chuckle, every guess is premature by defintiion, because once it is known it is not a guess.
But yes everything is a guess at this point....the question is one of probabilities. Some people may want to act on probabilities, some may want to act after something is known. Which direction you want to go is up to the individual. I venture to say that most pink sheet decisions are based on the former and not the later....until it is suspended and then suddenly waiting for facts becomes all important to some. I never get that.
How many bought this stock based on unaudited financials? That is an action based on a guess...
How does one have a "premature guess"?
I have no idea how KMAG will trade if that makes you feel better. Just talking about the overall patterns of others and how that might apply here. Yes they are all different, but I have yet to see a suspended pink (not just LLEG) achieve a stable trading pattern and grow on the greys. That's the beauty of the interwebs, anyone can go see this fact for themselves.
It just so happens that my LLEG experience triggered my interest in understand this entire phenomena.
There will be a market. It may last for weeks. It will also be unpredictable. If you are trying to buy and have a buy order in, it may go unfilled for the day yet you will see trades occurring below your price. And the opposite too, you will see trades that are coming through at prices above what you are trying to sell for. When the suspension is lifted many of these suspended stocks will be in the top 10 for OTC volume for grey sheets for at least a week or so...maybe longer.
The illiquidity comes later.
Ahhh...therein lies the difference. I don't believe those numbers until a bonafide audit is done. Apparently you do.
To each his own.
What suspended pink stock on the grey sheets is doing well 30 days out, 90, 180, 365 from suspension lift?
I keep looking ....
Premature. Let's judge in about 6 months.
Just paying it forward.
I have watched many of these unfold. There is almost always an initial reaction that can come in many forms. A tweet, a blog post or a PR. MIKP CEO takes the cake for his blog post though and sents the new standard for dumbest thing a pink CEO could do after a suspension.
However most of the first PR's or "communications" have some subset of the following content.
1) caught us completely by surprise
2) it appears to be related to something we don't control (some third party issue)
3) it's related to a minor paperwork issue we are clearing up now
4) I can believe my integrity has been called into question
5) we were just in the process of uplisting
6) we were just in the process of auditing our financials
And my personal favorite
7) they appear to be offended by a cartoon we posted referring to the "SEC" when we were talking about the Site Evaluation Committee. That comes from LLEG, where I took some good advice during the suspension and learned a lesson without losing much.
Their only concern right now should be having their lawyer deal with the SEC. However, it is likely that JR knows exactly what the issues are. But I would not advise him to share them at this point.
I doubt you will see anything more than "we are working diligently to address the SEC's concerns".
It's one thing to fling PR's as an unreporting pink....it's another to do so when you are under investigation. The PR's, if any, will be very vanilla and will leave a "is that all we get?" feeling.
Most suspended pinks sheets message boards after a suspension are filled with "but we are going to be different because of xxxxxxxxxx".
But I will say this, the amount of suspensions, or rather the increase in 2011 and 2012 I believe are going to lead to a greater number of ones coming out of suspension in the future. As to whether 1/100 ratio holds (actually I think it is closer to 1/500) or improves is another question. There is a path to get out. But there is also a path to swim across the Atlantic.
The grey sheets contain stocks in many "categories". One type of stock seen on the greys are "suspended pink sheet" stocks. You cannot look at stocks on the greys in general and try to equate performance, tier changes, etc. and think that the statistics apply to suspended pink sheet stocks.
Beyond the opinion, THE FACT remains that of ALL the suspended pink sheet stocks in the last 10 years (at least), ONLY one, appears to have made it back to the pinks and it took years.
People can decide for themselves how that influences their decision.
EDIT: The "stickie" above, IMHO, is very misleading in this regard.
Garyst, my only concern with the advice is that there are in fact equally good reasons (IMO much more compelling) to "sell into stupid" when it re opens. Although what happens to any given suspended pinkie that reopens on the greys in the days or weeks following a suspension lift may very, and they do greatly, the overall trend over the longer term is pretty consistent. In the last 10 years there is only one real example of a suspended pink reviving itself from the greys. Patience or hesitation can thus also be a bad thing. And the history of almost any suspended pink bears that out. Also trying to time a trade on the greys is very risky. Movement is completely unpredictable.
While hope and patience are very admirable, the reality of this situation needs to be understood by any investor. There is no place for emotion. But I will not argue with someone who understands the statistics and feels that in this case, this stock will be different.
But go to any board of any of the suspended stocks in this batch and you will see exactly the same feelings and beliefs about those stocks.
Actually wasn't there a fat finger trade that popped it to 0.015 shortly after the suspension was lifted? Is he using that as his basis for the range??!!
This is not a trading halt. This is a trading suspension. Trading halts are implemented by exchanges, trading suspensions by the SEC. There is a big difference.
I would also encourage posters to review the charts for the many pink sheet stocks suspended by the SEC on June 7, 2011 and see if any of their performance on the grey sheets since coming off suspension fit the profile provided in the post I am replying to.. And then check every pink sheet suspension since then or before.
Actually what you may see happen is a single odd number share volume trade right at the end of the trading day...usually an uptick to get a better "close" price. I am never sure whether this is just an odd lot remainder some broker wants to move, or it is a matched trade for that purpose. Another funny aspect will be the small trades that are worth less than the commission on the trade.
Good to hear, you will need both.
most often( and not that often) a company will get a "no action" letter
Yes...thanks!. Given the relatively large increase in suspensions in 2011 and 2012 with the new (relatively) microcap fraud group at SEC, some of this may be new territory in terms of volume of investigations and activity.
Yes they do and did;
They were cleared of wrong doing in the 2003 hedge fund scandal. Maybe I misinterpreted what was meant by the statement "clean and good". The SEC does not pass judgement on the health of a company, on whether it is in good shape....
but yes, they can clear a company of wrong doing.
But I would note that it generally takes many many years to get to that point and usually a company has to fight to get the SEC to state that an investigation is complete and nothing was found. Normally, they will say nothing, even if they stop. A lot of times it ends up as a "books and records" hand slap and an official "don't break the law again" letter...but that result is almost never in the scale of months....but years.
Every suspended pink charts it's own path on the greys. The destination is pretty much the same, just the route taken and the amount of time vary.
The Sec will give the nod that all is clean and good
The SEC does not do that. Ever.
Where did I say it was the right thing??? Simply stating the process and the results. There is actually a lot of things that I think are wrong and it is always a little bit of a mystery as to how any given stock gets suspended with the number of obvious frauds out there. There is also incredible lack of transparency in the process and sometimes it is next to impossible for a company to know where they sit with an investigation.
But the results, eventual disposition and history of SEC suspensions is fairly well established. As a number of posters have provided information on.
The SEC does not suspend based on one or even many complaints. They do their own investigation, gather their own facts and then make the call. And they make suspensions very carefully based on the evidence as they know the impact it has to current investors. But when the evidence suggests that future investors are at real risk, only then do they take that step. And they are rarely wrong. To believe that this is a simple reaction to a complaint(s) is naive.
They rarely go there immediately. It is a slow painful process. For those that truly want to minimize loses, there is a fews days to possibly a few weeks when it reopens to sell into the "averaging down", "this is all a big mistake" emotional activity.
You will hear two refrains during this time, one is exultation each time it ticks up as proof positive that all is going to be ok...and second, as the volume starts to wane the view that it means nobody wants to sell so all is good.
All that happens is that activity gets more sporadic, price swings can be signficant as trades are manually matched, and for those that think this will be a swing trade opportunity, you best think again.