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MBB and exec's stand to make a whole lot more if they uplist and and stock goes up than divy up 3 to 5mil as some posters have stated
The question is how many birds need to be in the bush to beat the bird in the hand.
Only a small amount of their equity in the company is in the common stock...its almost meaningless.
It has value in doing more deals, granted, but many many things need to fall into place for that value to become unlocked...if its there.
The amount of financing from equity could be driven simply by the the terms of the debt, as debt will be senior to equity. For example they may need to use the equity cash first to get the project to some point and then the debt kicks in.
Reading between the tea leaves here...this likely has no implied meaning to what LEGG's final payment will be.
Its ALL cash that flows through Berlin Station's bank account at some point. Some of that cash comes through the equity sale and some comes through the financing piece.
Recognized on other sites...at the moment
Seems expectations have gone off the cliff. Where an Email from Mr Ed will have to suffice for future communication to stockholders.
It is a crappy situation. What the "reality" is at the moment is left to each person to create for themselves...in the absence of any official information from LLEG.
Expectations act as the foundation from which we spring hope.
I honestly do not like pointing out a problem in someones logic...as there is always some level of hope. My apologies for those that receive it.
The real audience for me is MBB. i hope he reads what is here. At this point pressure needs to be applied and maybe in a small way some of what gets posted here helps with that process.
A good motto about pink sheet CEO's that works well for me is "you are guilty until proven innocent". That is driven solely by the company a "good" pink CEO is forced to keep...and not a blanket accusation. MBB may be the good CEO...many here believe that sincerely.
But it is time, now, to open the curtain and give his loyal stockholders a frank assessment of where things are at and be held accountable for what he says.
I think this has been discussed enough anyone thinking LLEG is in business to uplist rather than build the business can go on believing that..
Actually I agree with your point in general. One does need their ducks in a row before trying to uplist. In and of itself, it is meaningless otherwise.
But here's the thing as it pertains to LLEG...
It has been discussed/promised for close to 5 years, if not longer. How much longer to "build the business"? Another 5 years? What if someone had told you in 2006 that 2011 will arrive and no uplist will have occurred. That person would have been labeled a "nattering nabob of negativity" by True Longs®
I also don't remember anyone expressing concern "LLEG isn't ready"...at least before now.
But then...it is all meaningless anyhow until LLEG gets out from under the SEC "investigation" cloud.
IF they did something wrong, or invested wrong IT is still a valid point that Pink sheet stocks like LLEG could invest in Profitable ventures for their shareholders rather than becoming fully reporting... That DD is generally accepted by most knowledgable investors...
Really?
So you do not believe the most valuable thing a pink sheet stock could do, to support its PPS, is uplist?
You made a comment about how a pink sheet company can best invest its money...in projects instead of uplisting or reporting. I was merely pointing out a flaw in that logic, in that, had they made the investment, they probably would not have been suspended by the new microcap fraud squad(unless the issues go far beyond what many longs have quoted here), and it might probably have been cheaper than the costs they are now facing to deal with the suspension.
If I misunderstood the point you were making my apologies.
COMPANIES SUCH AS LLEG COULD USE FUNDS THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO KEEP THE COMPANY REPORTS COMPLETE AND CURRENT FOR BETTER "PRODUCTIVE PROJECTS" THAT WOULD BENEFIT SHAREHOLDERS
I wonder what addressing this suspension is going to cost LLEG?
well, I was responding to the statement that "There's never a good or legitimate reason for any company to elect to stay Pink"
Bringing ADR's into the mix is a straw man argument...but you got him on the semantics.
As for my reference...it was missing a "that are traded"...referencing unsponsored and level 1 ADR's...that DO NOT file with the SEC. Obviously an ADR that is reporting is even farther away from LLEG for any meaningful comparison.
Again, they all still do have to file in their home country...so at least one can look somewhere.
That makes them lightyears different than a domestic pinkie.
LLEG has been talking about uplifting for at least the last 5 years. It's a common refrain from domestic pinks.
Keep the dream alive!
I think LLEG and other companies -- Nestle (market cap $202B), BASF ($55B), Daimler($47B), China Construction Bank ($179B) -- would disagree with that statement.
LEGG is not traded as American Depository Receipts and is not a foreign stock issue. It is obvious, to most of us at least, that what sunspotter is referring to are US based companies that choose to trade as a pink. It just so happens that ADR's are traded in the OTC "Other" category since they do not file with the US SEC, but they DO FILE (and HAVE to file) with their own countries Securities Regulator. A US based pink does not have to file with anyone.
The comparison is meaningless...and in fact, downright risky to someone that does not understand the difference.
As well management of LLEG will also receive remuneration for supplying ongoing advice to Burgess Biopower. It is not clear if this income would result in income to LLEG
This somewhat confirms one of the things that concerned me, in addition to the non-insider common stock ONLY representing 30% of the company equity.
The consulting fees are going directly to Bart and crew and not to the company. This was first a vague reference in minutes from one of the PUC meetings I believe. Also, the vague reference on the website to the ongoing support leaves this possibility wide open.
I guess everyone has to interpret in their own way how they feel about that.
Maybe the City of Berlin has some sort of retirement fund that could buy 3.4B shares for $0.01.
Everyone comes to first understand, and then accept reality in their own way and in their own time.
Mine came on June 7....my freakin' birthday of all days.
It is a glorious time to be a resident of Berlin thanks to Laidlaw Energy!
And to thank us, every resident should invest in Laidlaw stock.
I am not sure how else to translate this "glorious time" for Berlin into PPS appreciation for us.
I feel like the guy I believed in and bought the ticket from told me he sold it as the train pulls away from the platform...and has yet to tell me what we got for it, or when/where the next train is.
When it gets to the point that True Longs® start clammoring for some communication and it is not forthcoming...then you know that the silence is likely serving a purpose not related to supporting the common stockholder.
WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN PAST 2 WEEKS?
It appears Berlin financing is complete, so it is moving forward.
Lots of guesses as to what that means, specifically, for LLEG.
Nothing heard from management.
Stock price is vacillating between 0.0007 and 0.002 on irregular volume.
the SEC staff follows a long-standing policy against providing any information to its targets.
Ummmmm......
It's the SEC's own words....
http://www.sec.gov/litigation/suspensions/2011/34-64612-o.pdf
Beyond that do you think the SEC wouldn't care if Mike bonused himself and others a few million bucks in effect raiding the company?
Believe it or not the SEC would not care one bit. However, If they PR'd a set of financials that misrepresented the bonuses, then the SEC would care...but as a grey sheet or even pink sheet they don't have to say or issue anything...so frankly it could happen and you would never know...and not a single law would be broken.
In this case, silence can truly be golden.
I think holding that money tight to prove to the SEC they have successfully completed a project as advertised would be the prudent thing to do
The SEC could not give a rip about the operations of Laidlaw Energy. They only care about the publicly traded security LLEG. Whether a project is completed or not is also irrelevant. Similarly, compensation or dividend amounts are irrelevant as long as they are properly accounted for and reported as required. Yes, if LLEG misrepresents something, then they are in dodo. But what does "as advertised" mean? Have they made a commitment or said something promissory that they may not be able to follow through on?
The SEC does not care what a company does business wise, what business they are in our how they pay themselves, as long as they meet the security laws as they pertain to the public security LLEG.
Hmmm...a zero volume day. I guess that means nobody wanted to sell...I mean...I guess nobody wanted to buy...errr...I mean...nobody could find themselves in the dark ?!?
Your 4 is a reasonable number
Actually we know the number to be 5 now. Bravakis' son is on the payroll.
Also...I completely left out the fact that the 2.6 Billion shares ONLY REPRESENT about 35-40% of the equity. So that using BBFL's numbers and assumptions, it actually is 0.006 at best...assuming no expenses, it actually becoming recurring revenue and LLEG getting off the greys.
So even if it is just another $4m, that is all profit with very few appreciable expences. So $4M divided by 2.4B shares is a profit of .0016/share. Factor in a P/E ratio of HALF the going average for this industry, putting that at 10 and you get a share price that is valued @.016/share.
Interesting analysis...
However, you generally can't apply that type of analysis to a non-recurring item, which the payment from Cate would represent. If you do want to think of it as recurring income, then you have to look at this as an entirely different business model...in which case the big $$ never come.
But it is all moot anyways until LLEG gets off the greys.
You might want to use more precise terminology. An "SEC Attorney" is an attorney that works for the SEC. I think you are referring to a Securities attorney.
Of course it is...for now. No point in getting himself arrested, fined, or otherwise to silence a few naysayers, doubters, or even the just curious.
Are you implying that the ONLY thing he might/could say now would result in one of those outcomes?
A factual and material statement is not at risk of any of those actions.
How much time has to go by before you feel "we have waited long enough?"
As an optimist I am looking at what he said "we are almost there."
Might be nice if he would elaborate...although he can't obviously. What is the "there"? Why say that? Berlin financial close? Final payment? Marcum audit? Up listing? SEC resolution?
What?
And is not the statement "we are almost there" promissory?
So if in fact that was Ed, and the quote is true...well...I will let you interpret that in whatever way suits you best...as Ed seems to encourage.
LLEG DOES NOT need to make ANY promissory statment in a status update. Its that simple. Only way that I can interpret it is that NOTHING good worth reporting HAS happened since June 7.
LLEG cannot issue progress reports, etc. because the company can be viewed as making statements that are promissory in nature and that is not allowed.
Just Wow....
"promissory"? What the heck is promissory about a "status report"???
Is he implying that the ONLY thing they can talk about is something in the future that is uncertain...as there is NOTHING today that is worth discussing?
Disappointing.
If you have any knowledge of SEC compliance you would know that an AUDITED financial report is manditory for SEC compliance
I have plenty of knowledge of SEC compliance and the range of services Marcum could provide. However, as a grey sheet/former pink sheet, LLEG are not required to do anything.
The only thing we know for certain (which is all that many here seem to concern themselves with) is that LLEG announced on their website that they have retained Marcum. There is not even a PR about it.
So again, what is the scope of their engagement? Are they even still engaged? And as it relates to the original post, we are coming up on the 90 day anniversary of their announcement of retaining Marcum. Three months is not an unreasonable time period to expect some result given the size and relative simplicity of LLEG operations.
IMO once we get beyond that, questions about what is happening on that front become more germaine.
They are not "required" to do anything. It is entirely dependent on the scope of their engagement...which only they and LLEG know the details of. So as folks here like to so commonly ask...
Do you have DD as to the scope of their engagement?
Do your proper DD
So you have DD that Marcum is doing something more than a Financial Audit?
Even if the audit is completed I don't think there will be any PR from Laidlaw until this SEC matter concludes
One would think that filing a Q would be separate from the SEC issues. Why do I get the feeling that even reporting Q results or material events will be "delayed" until SEC issues resolved?
Its like the ultimate delay excuse.
I fully agree, if nothing is forthcoming from LLEG 90 days after retaining Marcum...I would seriously wonder what is being hidden.
My reference was predicated on a desire by mgt to become SEC compliant and up list.
Point was....if there is silence then it is pretty definitive that uplisting is not a priority or that the loan closing is not material to LLEG.
You are right, a Grey sheet stock has no obligation to say anything.
Just to clarify...
We are talking about the REMAINING payment due LLEG upon construction loan closing. The first payment (at least showing up as an AR in the financials) appears to be somewhere between 2.7 and 3.7 million depending on how you read them.
So my total would be around 5-6 million.
For some entertainment I think we should all throw out a number for the payout to LLEG and see who comes the closest.
I'll start.
$2.3 million
Perhaps...
Don't know about you but when a light was finally shed on the share structure, the % of equity contained in the preferred shares was a bit of a shock to me...
When one understands all the ways preferred shares can be used to stick it to common shareholders (and I am not saying that is the case here) that fact elevated the risk profile for the common shareholder significantly IMO.
The fact is, every cent of the "pending" payout could be put into the pocket of management via the preferred shares. Not saying that is what will happen, but nobody can say definitely it will not. Thus the risk is elevated.
They only own 10% of the common stock. The other 60% of equity they have is in preferred shares. Thus ALL non-insider common stock represents only 30% of the equity in LLEG according the LLEG website.
So how important is the value of the common stock to them? Not as much as one might assume if their 70% control was all common stock. It's value is more important as a vehicle to do deals.
Again, what is the payout due them going to do for the common stockholder? Based on currently available information, which ain't much unfortunately, it is reasonable to assume not much....if anything.
Maybe it will...but I have yet to see any reasonable argument that it would be meaningful in some way.
But time will tell....
Awaiting the PR.
Logic says it will. Any money coming into a company is beneficial to it's shareholders.
Logic does not say it will....the company has, in effect said it will. I have not seen any serious debate here about that.
The "beneficial" question requires more information to judge it's effect. Sure, $1 would be beneficial in some insignificant sense. But that's the question that cannot be answered, will it be significant to the shareholders in any meaningful way? That requires two pieces of information:
1. How much is it?
2. What will be done with it?
Since neither of those questions can be answered, one is left with the "wait and see" strategy...or..apply your best judgement and reason based on what is known now and act accordingly.
Awaiting the PR.
Looks like Sept 1 will be achieved. Now comes the interesting part...if loan close is a material event to LLEG then PR would be required. If one is not forthcoming, then it is very reasonable to assume it is not considered a material event by management.
So what's the over/under on when a PR will be forth coming?
AGAIN SPECULATION!!! Why not just wait for the FACTS.
In the investment world...no news is bad news. Commonly held philosophy.
And what facts might you suggest we wait for?
There is nothing that prevents a reasoned analysis of what is currently known, no matter how little. That is what good DD is ALL ABOUT. It is not "waiting for facts"...but taking what you have, making a reasoned analysis and deciding a path forward....which could be to wait.
Unfortunately, the track record of LLEG does not bode well for the "wait" strategy.
Yep... that is right when NO DATA IS PROVIDED...
KING OIL was RIGHT ON CONCERNING THE LACK OF GOOD DD PROVIDED!!
So let me see if I understand. The only rebuttal to bearspread's reasoned analysis is that there is no data. And the reason there is no data is that LLEG has not seen fit to provide any? So in the absence of that data ANY DD is going have to based on what is known...no matter how little. An investor is left with making assumptions...and on that basis it is some if the best DD I have seen.
I have yet to see anyone poke a hole in the analysis that bearspread has done....other than to say there are no facts. That is not his fault...it is the fault of LLEG. And frankly given what little is available his analysis is probably the most reasonable estimation of what that payout is going to look like.
For those that don't want to "wait and see" it is probably the best guess as to what it will be.
If someone has as detailed an anaylsis that can stand up to reason that it is in the $20-70 million range, I would love to see it.