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let's pump it up!!! lol
are you sure about that?? How can you use public shareholders' money to buy a public company? By buying it, it became public IMO
yes, I was the guy that called it would fall back in the twenties and even back to the teens while everybody was screaming fawl.
been there so we'll talk again in a while
I completely agree it is all about emotion. why not go up on hype as we are witnessing right now. that's the game here, so people make money on these emotion swings and there is nothing wrong with it. I am just discussing value here
loooooong term that is, not right now, and of course also if they would stop diluting unless they can put value against this dilution which did not happen yet. the only good thing IMO right now is that this Tom is CEO which is IMO a very good thing since he can't screw up to much since he is a too big of a public figure (of course, so is Martha Steward, but I believe in Tom, looooooong term!)
BTW, with the current market conditions, I don't think it is even a good time to be in any stock since credit crisis is starting to effect more and more sectors... it starts to be reflected in the quarterly results and next quarter results will be even worse in general.
As I said, it will take a LOT of time!
before you start namecalling me, just double read my post. I never mentioned a PE of 1. I said an EPS of 0,0027 (this is by the way overestimated as it is right now). So this would mean a PE of 10
I thought sales were 16 million, not revenue!
and why would that be? can you put 1 and 1 together? can you point out any miscalculations in my posts? indeed, I don't think so. And yes you can even say my numbers are even better than reality! I am waiting for your valuation instead of accusing me of being a basher.
yes indeed BIG NEWS! this stock is WAYYYY overvalued.
djee, only 16 million in sales??? ha, that explains why they only had to pay 6 million to acquire the company. How much do you pay in general? 5 to 6 times Ebitda? Isn't this even lower in retail? that's only 1 million in EBITDA. Amazing!LOL Oh, and then not even taking into account that the 6 million payment is spread over 8 years, how much would that be in todays value? only 5 million?
And let's even assume that the 1 million EBITDA is pure profit, on an OS of 730 million, how much is this in EPS? 0,00137
Oh by the way, did they finally stop the continuous dilution because the EPS is only doomed to continue to go down the way this one is being diluted...
good luck
never heard of it before. where did you find this?
what are the results for lcol shareholders?tia
they have all the reasons to share, because of course they bought shares with the most wonderful news they found out and of course they now would be telling the world about this system so that they can see there position in this stock gain in value! right? so where are they then?
why do you post here?? to find out about something?? or just to tell everybody what kind of wonderful DD you have done and that this is the most wonderful company. and just say: hey, you should do your DD as well and you would just know what I know right now!
well, good luck then, and have fun wasting your time on these message boards with useless post lacking the information we all might want to hear and that would make you smile tomorrow morning when you wake up and see that your usefull efforts have been translated in a higher PPS!
well, I believed in it once, but now with all the post I just read here in the last hour and nobody able to even give a confident answer makes me very wary.
You either believe or you don't? It's like saying you either believe in God or not... hmmm
Problem is, god is religion, MCCY is reality. You are supposed to be able to see it here with MCCY!
Don't know, that's just me
Hope you will be fine but I am out here. Not buying in since nobody can give a satisfying responds, yet everybody is here posting all day...
in relation to what the PPS is now, I have to believe you over rosebud. I am still a little bit hopefull that the market has a teeny weeny little brain and that this is now reflected in the PPS
I received once a whole summary from one of the mods that posted it on the board here back in the good days.
It also showed how the navigation system works, but unfortunately it was not the FOLO system. You had to log in that website and you could see how it worked on the truck but again, it appeared it wasn't the FOLO system.
Is that what you are referring to?
thanks
yes, I am very much interested. Check again! I even wrote a whole post on SWVC why the PPS is where it is.
But I know one thing, if this was a stock I would own right now, and I find some GREAT DD, I would most definitely post it on this board. And so would you! proof the board and all her lurkers I am wrong, but frankly, I am pretty sure you have no great DD at all.
Otherwise why even bother to post??
yes I did, but now I wanted to know if any of you got an update and can proof what is going on. I might want to get back in at these levels if there is something out there that proofs this is worth the shot
thanks for the update, I did not know. Could you post the pictures here since I missed it appartently.
thanks
I can't find any DD but if I did, I would have no problem whatsoever sharing this with anyone out here. Could you please? tia
then why all the great PRs about contracts and LOI here and all over the place, the mentioning of the white papers and all that good news, when now suddenly everything is so 'top secret' with no updates on the progress. Just don't get it... I bought in in the thirties based on all the info spread by the company. You cannot treat your shareholders this way that first you get them all excited day after day and the next month, you hear jackxxxx from the company.
That is terrible IR by the company
well, he was the only one who actually went visit the company so you should care a lot since he got all the first hands info.
wait! now I just found back the post made by Joe Natural that I was referring to. Now I was really thinking that I was becoming dilusional! LOL
I knew I read something about a lady Joe talked to and now suddenly has been lying all along...
here it is:
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=23928861
he didn't say it was a scam but that he was keeping his fingers crossed with MCCY
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=23626884
but now I am reading his board and he also mentions he still holds his shares of MCCY so I guess he still believes
I read on joe natural's board that he is upset that we were all scammed, but he did not explain. He was a strong believer and even went to visit. I was out here for a long time, but can anyone give an update if we already have that picture of a working folo system. And did we get that white paper already? Everybody was so high on this and now you can hear a needle drop. I am ready to jump in here, but did we finally get that picture and some contract confirmations, and the does anyone have an idea of the white paper issue that was expected last month?
tia
why is this tanking??
then could you elaborate your PPS calculation please?
“How many here buy & sell because of EPS??? What does it matter on the OTC? The only value seen in stocks without a earnings history, that could show increased or reduced earning. Is the market cap & PPs. And that's good and improving with this company & stock.”
Well, why even bother buying if you are not interested in (future) EPS… Earnings is the only thing that will add value to a company. If no earnings are to be expected, only fools would buy and hold for the long term. Yes, you can buy on the hype but if you truly think there will be no positive EPS in the near future, or an increase in PPS (because here SWVC does have an EPS!), you don’t hold long term but rather sell on the next emotional spike. If you base your decision on market cap and PPS only, you are doomed to get your pants burned. If the market cap increases (which is very much the case here OS almost doubled over the last two months and PPS is pretty much the same as two months ago) but there will be no earnings to justify this increase, the company is simply overvalued. If earnings do not satisfy in the next quarters to come, the PPS will adjust accordingly. However, if you can find a stock that has an undervalued market cap and earnings are sustainable, you can be very happy because eventually the price will correct itself to higher levels. That’s why you should not look at market cap and pps alone, but much more importantly, you should look at EPS and expected EPS.
“Tell me my friend, how much lower has SWVC's earnings per share reduced???”
If the O/S is 450.000.000 and let's overestimate the earnings and say they are 1500000, the EPS would be 0,0033
Unfortunately, with all the dilution that has been going on, the O/S is now 720.000.000 so with earnings of 1500000, the EPS would be 0,0021
So the earnings per share would be reduced by 36% already.
“Financial leverage?
You got me there! Never heard of that term with earnings.”
Financial leverage is very often used with earnings. Actually, you cannot talk about financial leverage without talking about PPS. It actually is the dream of every stockholder that a growing company would finance this growth with debt instead of with issuing stock. This is what is called financial leverage, try to shift your liabilities this way in order that the equity part is relatively going down compared to the debt part which should relatively be going up. Better to have 20/80 equity/debt financing instead of 50/50 equity/debt financing. Why is this so important to shareholders and why does this have everything to do with the term 'earnings':
Let’s say we have only 1 shareholder in SWVC with 1 stock valued at 1 USD and we also have 10 USD debt bullet loan with the bank. Let’s say SWVC makes 1 USD per year every year and has a pay out ratio of 100%. So this means that the only shareholder will receive 1 USD every year or a yearly return on investment of 100%.
Now assume that SWVC decides to retire half of its bullet loan debt by issuing shares at 1 USD per share and we have 5 new shareholders. So now we have 6 shareholder each with 1 share at a PPS of 1 USD. The liabilities now shifted from 1 USD equity and 10 USD debt to 6 USD equity and 5 USD debt. This year, SWVC again makes 1 USD profit and pays this out at 100% to its shareholders. Now everybody will receive 0,167 USD so the first shareholder who got 1 USD in the past, now only will receive 0,167 USD for the same share he holds and this because of a simple shift in financing (negative financial leverage). This is what is happening here when the company continues to issue shares or Cornell is diluting. We as shareholders lose value. So as long as things remain the same and there is no additional value added other then the current wisebuys/hacketts merger, YES, dilution here is VERY BAD. Of course, if tomorrow this dilution can be justified by another merger or acquisition which can bring value to SWVC, then this can be good, but as things are today (nothing has changed what we know of right now), this dilution is definitely not good for the stockholders! But even with another acquisition, now this: every good company has its price and this will need to be paid. If SWVC would merge with a bad company, the price will of course be much cheaper, but this would also mean that SWVC would have to make sure that they can turnaround this bad company into a good company, and that, that can take quite some time.
By the way, financial leverage (getting more debt while maintaining the same equity or reduce equity) only works in favour of stockholders if the investments made possible by this new debt are more profitable than the cost of this debt. But this condition is a condition you always want to be fulfilled in the first place when investing your money in a company. If this would not be the case and the cost of debt would be higher than the returns made by using this debt money, than why invest in that company since it would be losing value instead of creating value.
“Don't see the dilution problem!”
Well, if the rate of dilution is the same as the rate by which value is added to the company, then yes, dilution is not a problem and the PPS remaining constant is justified (if the PPS itself is justified as well of course). Even better would be that value would be created at a higher rate than the rate of dilution.
But as is the case with SWVC, we have the Wisebuys/Hacketts merger which has its value of course. But since the latest 8K, we also have continuous dilution while there is no value coming in to justify this high rate of dilution. If tomorrow an 8K comes out stating a valuable company was acquired, then this dilution can be good, but as things are today, every few weeks, we see a significant increase in O/S without anything solid to back this up and as long this continues this way, shareholders will only lose value here.
I think this can be a good long term play since with Tom, I would hope this management is one of the best you will ever see here in the OT market, but as long as this heavy dilution is not backed up by an announcement to justify this, I would advice to wait for lower lows if you believe in this long term story, because that’s what it is, a long term play. Take your time…even with an announcement, you are better to wait until that announcement and buy in at a higher price then to buy in at the hype without anything to back this up. And unfortunately this is what many did when we spiked to .086 in September and at .056 two weeks ago…
Good luck!
yes, everybody here is buying here because this is OTC and the PPS has nothing to do with earnings...
Give me a break, it is actually quite scary that somebody with so many boardmarks (= probably an indicator people have a lot of trust in what you say, or follow you because of good advic) does not connect the PPS with earnings or financial leverage. These are two terms created by company owners = stock holders. And yes, even here in the OTC market people buy on the expectation of future earnings (I admit, also a lot on the hype, but longterm true value is created by making a positive EPS). A lot of the buying happens on the hype, I can't deny that I also play the plays just on hype. But you are quite contradictory on what you say. First you say EPS is not important here in OTC (of course we all know it IS important, especially with this one since most here are really thinking this company can make it big in the long term, and people here are buying this because they expect nice future EPS). Then you say that Market Cap is what you need to look at (which I can follow and you definitely need to take a look at - but of course always in light of the value of the company: is it indeed creating value to justify that kind of market cap? or WILL value BE created in the NEAR future that can justify this market cap?), but EPS (or expected EPS) is not important in OTC you say? then why even look at market cap?? (see the contradiction?) Market cap should be justified, otherwise we are looking at an overvalued or an undervalued stock.
Can you see the problem of dilution? If they continue to issue stock, and the PPS stays the same, market cap will increase and increase. If the (expected) earnings don't increase along, the PPS will go down sooner or later.
Now Financial leverage: this is a term that goes together with stockholders, value and yes, EPS
example:
company with 10 USD debt and 1 USD equity (say you are the only shareholder). You bought because you see value in this company, maybe not right now, but you think it is a good company to invest in. Say you DO make a profit of 1 USD per year. This means you would get 1 USD for your 1 share with value of 1 USD in case the pay-out ratio is 100%. Let's say your bank loan of 10 USD is a bullet loan with an interest rate of 6% which you always paid off. But you decide you want to pay off half of the loan right now by issuing shares (which have a value of 1 right now since that is the current PPS). What you are doing here is actually financial leverage (but in a negative way for the shareholders or in this case negatively for you). You are shifting between the two ways you can finance a company (bonds/bank loans vs stock). Since stockholders come last in line in case of banktruptcy financing through stock is more expensive than financing via the more safer bank loans and the 'rational shareholder' (I know this is an illusion since retail shareholders are most of the time emotional instead of rational) will only buy your stock if they can get a reward which is higher than the riskfree rate and also higher than more secure investments such as a bond for example.
In this case value per shareholder will be lost = dilution.
So say that you retired 5 USD by issuing 5 shares to 5 different shareholders which each pay 1 USD and by this getting each 1 share and retiring in total 5USD of debt (5 shareholders x 1 USD). Now your liabilities consists of 6 USD equity (i.e. 6 shareholders)and 5 USD bank loan. Now assume nothing has changed business wise and you still make a profit of 1 USD per year and you pay out at a ratio of 100%. Now you will have to divide the 1 USD earnings amongst 6 shareholders so this year you will not get 1 USD, but only 0,167 USD. Which is of course still quite good, but you can clearly see how value per shareholder is lost by shifting from debt to equity (which is actually pretty much what is going on with the cornell dilution). That is why stock holders want the company to expand by debt financing instead of by equity financing since the latter will not necessarily create value to the shareholders in case an increase in earnings is to be expected. Earnings should increase at a higher ratio than the ratio by which the stock is being dilluted in order to create value for the shareholders. On the other hand, if growth was financed by debt, all the earnings increases that are the result of this expansion will contribute directly to the PPS and is not dilluted (condition of course is that the return from the investments made by this money lend from the bank gives a higher rate of return than the the cost of this debt).
"Value for a OTC startup is in the eye of the beholder"
yes it is, but dilution will slowly nibble away this value, unless something different will be put in place which is not the case today (we only have wisebuys and hacketts) but who knows, maybe it will be the case tomorrow...
Until then, dilution is eating away all the profits that can be expected from the wisebuys-hacketts merger, and today, that is the harsh reality, you can't argue that.
Tomorrow might be a different story...
good luck though
'What it has done bad is reduce any earnings per share'
that's all I wanted to hear my friend.
It is called: financial leverage! only here, in a negative way...
right on!
twist it as you want in your opinion
most of this was Cornell dilution, no business extension, no synergies, no funding of money by issuing shares, just plain and simple Cornell which is not good dilution
they have to get rid of it which they are doing (=good) but THAT dilution, and which is also the most of the dilution that has been taken place, THAT is no good dilution...
cheers
dilution did not effect this company in a good way. That is BS. If the dilution would have come from buying out another company with value and after the reorganisation, there are synergies (this takes time!!), then this initial dilution would have ended up positively. Nobody is selling a company without having to pay a price for it...
This dilution came mostly from Cornell and this kind of dilution is surely not making the PPS go UP!
The PPS is indeed up from 3 months ago, but it surely isn't from this dilution!!
good luck
goodluck
dillution does not effect stock value?? hmmm...
we are gonna rock'n roll the common months and THAT my friends, that's a fact!
nice hammer formed today!! you all know what that means huh??!!
last time a hammer was formed we ran big time. look at all the runs! the day before a hammer was formed!!!!
weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
sukkelaar
aug 5, aug 10, sept 15, oct8 (no run as you can see)...
lol, you can see whatever you like to see in these graphs.
Then we did not have the 8K yet and we were expecting a stellar 8K. We just got a reasonable 8K.
Based on the numbers in the 8K, can you give me a reasonable PPS?
1000000 in net earnings? at an OS of 650,000,000?
it isn't rocket science. We now need more acquisitions because with the hackets/wisebuys this is not going to go up big time any time soon. We need nice speculation, as was the case when all the other runs occured. Now with the 8K out, this speculation has left the building...
that's a very smart strategy! people have been saying this should be at least .035 and that it will go back. But very wise like you did to take the profits off the table. Now even with news, you have plenty of time to buy back in (and more shares as well!) before it will hit .035 again. So don't worry about having to buy back in a little bit higher.
normal prices? what is this normal price?
no problem, when you are here long enough, you know how it works