Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
For a Receivership this unique and with issues of this magnitude, 10 years sounds about right.
Always with this abbreviation of what I actually said...you didn't finish the entire quote I always post.
I always state that OLD WMI shares were cancelled AND we were reissued NEW Preferred and Common Equity Interests which now represent our former ownership rights.
These new Equity Interests are wholly governed by the POR which states that after all senior debt is paid the remaining assets will be distributed 75%/25%.
Just because you don't like it and choose to ignore my full statement doesn't make that fact any less true.
Proof??? I provided it in the last post directly from the POR which you conveniently ignored as I expected. Keep posting and further demonstrate to everyone how little you know.
To be honest I believe the judge is giving certain parties, WMILT, FDIC and possibly JPM, time to get certain matters in order for their completion to coincide so it can all be wrapped up in a neat bow. These frivolous delays are not for the employee claimants, nor their lawyers benefit!!!
On a slightly different note, what are your opinions on...
1) The current status of the Common stock of WMCT 2001 that was valued at 3% of the total capital of the Trust??? (possibly $2.25B)
2) Since the 12/19/18 deadline for attorney Kyle's request for documents passed with apparently no filing, do you believe settlement negotiations for the allowed employee claims and attorney fees are underway???
TIA
LG...JPM ""purchased"" ~$260B of WMB owned assets/loans etc. This has nothing to do with WAMU's servicing portfolio which was owned by external parties. WAMU only received a fee for servicing those loans. I don't get why you referred to them as being a former WAMU owned asset...it wasn't. Does JPM have to still pay for WMB's $260B in assets they acquired in 2008?...who knows. Quoting that $1.17T figure is misleading. That's all i'm saying.
What are you even talking about? Your post has nothing to do with JPM assuming WAMU's servicing portfolio. Just more of the daily bunk you post.
It states JPM's THIRD PARTY MORTGAGE SERVICING business grew by 91% to 1.17T with the addition of WAMU's portfolio.
These were not WAMU owned assets, they belonged to other banks/financiers that issued those loans and contracted WAMU to only service them.
I'm not sure what you're trying to present here...???
Quote: "All relevant documents clearly state 75/25% til the end, applies only to the redistribution of shares"
Wrong yet again!!!!
ARTICLE XXIII
PROVISION FOR TREATMENT OF PREFERRED EQUITY INTEREST (CLASS 19)
23.1 Treatment of Preferred Equity Interests: Commencing on the Effective Date, and subject to the execution and delivery of a release in accordance with the provisions of Section 41.6 of the Plan, each holder of a Preferred Equity Interest, including, without limitation, each holder of a REIT Series, shall be entitled to receive such holder’s Pro Rata Share of seventy percent (75%) of (a) subject to the right of election provided in Sections 6.2(b), 7.2(b), 16.1(b)(ii), 18.2(b), 19.2(b) and 20.2(b) of the Plan, the Reorganized Common Stock, ""AND"" (b) in the event that all Allowed Claims and Post-petition Interest Claims in respect of Allowed Claims are paid in full (including with respect to Allowed Subordinated Claims), any Liquidating Trust Interests to be redistributed;
NOTE: Redistribute: distribute (something) differently or again
ie Piers now hold the Lti's they were distributed but once they are paid in full those Lti's will be REDISTRIBUTED or distributed again to our Markers to allow us to receive cash.
WMI LIQUIDATING TRUST ISSUES STATEMENT ON ESCROW CUSIPS
SEATTLE, March 16, 2017
In accordance with the Plan, the Trust will issue Liquidating Trust Interests to WMI’s former shareholders if, and only if, the Trust is able to monetize Liquidating Trust Assets in amounts sufficient to pay-in-full claims held by beneficiaries of the Trust who are senior to members of Classes 19 and 22, and then, only if a shareholder had satisfied timely all conditions applicable to receiving any such Liquidating Trust Interests.
That quiz would only contain 2 questions...one each about JA and Rule 1015 still being relevant.
The answer is NO.
All done!!!
Your ""DD"" is a joke.
AZ and LG thanks for the replies. I've been reading as much as I can get my hands on re the WMCT, but as you stated much is still unknown. Seems the "meatiest" documents are those that are only available to the Trust and/or it's direct investors. Even if that 3% posit is all that's there it's still a tidy sum though it falls way short of the expectations of many here.
The WMCT 2001 Prospectus (pg 17) specified that the aggregate liquidation amount of it's common shares acquired by WAMU were equal to 3% of the Trust's Total Capital.
How much does that 3% holding represent???
Try reading the WMILT Agreement without distorting it's message as some do by redefining plain English....
"The purpose of the LT is to Liquidate, CONVERT TO CASH and Distribute LT assets to it's beneficiaries."
WM CAPITAL TRUST PROSPECTUS...PG 46-47 Link in post 550138
Subordination of Common Securities of the Trust
Payment of distributions on, and the Redemption Price of, the Trust Securities, as applicable, shall be made pro rata based on the liquidation amount of such Trust Securities; provided, however, that if on any distribution date an Indenture Event of Default shall have occurred and be continuing, no payment of any distribution on, or Redemption Price of, any of the common securities of the Trust, and no other payment on account of the redemption, liquidation or other acquisition of the common securities of the Trust, shall be made unless payment in full in cash of all accumulated and unpaid distributions on all of the outstanding preferred securities for all distribution periods terminating on or prior thereto,"
The above IMO shows that any WMI interests in the Common stock of WMCT 2001 became subordinated to the Preferred stock (PIERS) upon the filing of bankruptcy (Event of Default) in 2008. Prior to that filing both WMCT 2001's Common and Preferred stock were on par in terms of payment (post 550138, 1st paragraph). Before any WMI owned Common interests in WMCT can be compensated the outstanding cash owed to PIERS must be paid in full.
As to what is delaying this process, IMO, it has to do with several outstanding issues...……...
-- Definitely the full resolution of the remaining Allowed Employee Claims and legal fees issues.
-- Possibly timing to allow other facets of the case to end concurrently, ie closure of the Bankruptcy and the Receivership etc.
-- Definitely the professionals prolonging the matter for the purpose of "milking" the parties for additional professional fees.
COOP bought these companies for their asset/customer base and yes, for their infrastructure to facilitate expansion in future servicing opportunities and inhouse loan originations, NOT purchasing former WAMU/WMI assets/interests.
OH JERRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
That's all these "IF" posts are about, trying to somehow rationalize this ridiculous S4V theory.
He seems to not understand the difference between "servicing" loans and "investing" in assets.
COOP is a servicer, ie simply put they collect payments from customers on the Issuer's behalf.
They did just this late last year by booking an additional $50-$60B in loan servicing business.
Any WAMU loans being serviced by COOP now or in the future will come from JPM or the FDIC.
This idea that COOP will be purchasing WMI interests in Trusts (Notes) using shares is a fantasy.
All your posts have one main goal...to try to sell this nonsensical S4V garbage. It's not going to happen so get over it already. You quoted CB's 25% claim, nobody has ever confirmed that once. The documents are out there yet nobody can find one instance where this is quoted??? After 10 years of baseless opinions some of us now rely on facts or at least some form of evidence...not "IF IF IF's" about servicing former WAMU assets.
You are the one making the claim...find just one Prospectus doc that shows WAMU retaining a 25% interest in any Trust. When you do that then we can discuss it.
See if you can finally get this through your head....
- COOP is not WMI/WMIIC, it's a new company with ties to the Debtors confined to the POR.
- COOP services assets and generates a small portion of it's own loans. Any former Debtor assets will be paid for, not ceded to COOP as a beneficiary of WMI/WMIIC.
- I posted about returns to our Markers, not sure why you referenced COOP...oh wait I got it!
- THERE WILL BE NO S4V...IT'S NONSENSE!!!
You keep asking about this and the 2005-2007 Trusts with zero clue as to what they mean. They're not our assets and none of our local ""experts"" here has ever shown otherwise. You are the one making the dense claim that it's $151B in assets...You Prove It!!!!
That may be the case for many here but I've made my expectations very clear for many years now...$2B-$10B. Do I have concrete proof that even this amount is there?...NO! I still hold to it because I see some evidence that it's possible from filings and using common sense. The extreme "lowball" figure used is in the event that i'm wrong and there's nothing else there. We are ~100% sure that $20-$30M will be left after Tranche 4 is paid so that can be taken as a FACT. I am willing to go as high as $26B based on FDIC docs but of that I hold little to no hope. See if you can apply my logic to the "foghorns" blaring that $50B, $100B or $200B+ will return and dismiss or attack any estimate below that. There is ZERO evidence of such amounts and the figures used to justify those estimates are grossly misquoted and erroneously applied to us.
It all goes hand in hand, IF there are Safe Harbor assets they will only be released once Tranche 4 is resolved. The same goes for the remaining $20M-$30M left within the bankruptcy estate being held by the LT. The only one confused here seems to be you.
That's the major issue I have here with the types who post overconfidently about exaggerated returns of $50B-$100B+. They quote figures that have nothing to do with us or misrepresent assets once held by WAMU as still being ours. I admit there is strong circumstantial evidence of additional assets but these rubbish figures being thrown about haphazardly are comical. Seriously, with no disrespect to Dm, does anyone actually believe PQ's will receive $43000/share or UQ's $85+??? If yes, I suggest they return to reality.
Nothing as of yet but with the imminent resolution of Tranche 4 that should make things much clearer. We should then see whether my hopes and the confident bluster of others ring true.
Not everyone here prefers fairytales, ie $100B+, over realism. Just because you believe in these ridiculous amounts doesn't mean we all do.
Yes it would especially due to the length of time most have been involved here. The fact is until Safe Harbor assets are proven, $20M-$30M is all that's provably there. The circumstantial evidence of remote assets being available is very compelling but by no means concrete.
I gave a range in value taking into account the possibility that there are no Safe Harbor assets...you know what a range is right? Dm used links to provide information, none of them proved his figures were accurate. The reason being is nobody outside the professionals have access to the exact figures. Have you ever complained when Zee posted that Dm's calculations are silly, impossible and delusional? I think not so just be quiet!
Multiply totals I used, $20M and $26B by 0.25 and then divide the result by ~1.194B to get the distribution per Wamuq.
While I agree with Dm's analysis and presentations his calculations are seriously flawed and hyper inflated.
The returns he quotes for Prefs and Commons are totally unrealistic and thus will not materialize.
Start from a low of $20M which equates to $2/PQ to an improbable high of $26B which yields $2600/PQ.
As usual responding without having a clue as to what I was referring. I was specifically referring to mattchoo's constant nonsense about JA and Rule 1015(b). Those aspects of this bankruptcy have been irrelevant since 2008 since they told us why the cases were jointly administered from day one.
I'm not surprised by your non answer...JA and 1015(b) ar irrelevant except in your mind only. Rubbish!!!
BS....that's all those posts sum up to.
For once instead of inundating the board with tens of incoherent "one lined" posts, please explain your position on JA and Rule 1015 and exactly how it applies to us currently. This constant babble provides zero usable info and literally proves nothing.
For those already celebrating Billions I truly hope those predicting such are correct and substantial assets are to be returned to our Markers. If these predictions do not materialize I honestly hope these individuals would take the disappointment in stride and move on. I know I surely will.
Most who read that post, "Got It", except for you obviously! Keep reading it over and over, it will sink in eventually. Re the constant JA and Rule 1015(b) rants...all now irrelevant.
FIRSTLY, MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!!
Now a simple reminder of what entity succeeded WMI in terms of ownership of ALL it's assets whether Bankruptcy or Safe Harbor, ie the WMILT. No confusion just supported facts.
Before Bankruptcy: Trusts--->$CASH$--->WMI/WMIIC
Bankruptcy: Trusts---Suspended Payments---WMI--->Debtors/Debtors In Possession
Effective Date: Debtors/DIP--->Successor in Interest--->WMILT
Closure of Bankruptcy/Piers Debt Paid: Trusts--->$CASH$--->WMILT--->Equity Interests (75%/25%)
March 2021...guess you missed that memo. That's quite a long time away and more than enough time to liquidate all available assets, if any.
They were cancelled and replaced with newly issued Preferred and Common Equity Interests that now represent our ownership of the Debtors/Debtors in Possession's estate. You guys always conveniently leave out the latter and only focus on "cancelled" to prove a baseless point.
Before Bankruptcy: Trusts--->$CASH$--->WMI/WMIIC
Bankruptcy: Trusts---XXXX---WMI--->Debtors/DIP
Effective Date: Debtors/DIP--->Successor in Interest--->WMILT
Closure of Bankruptcy/Piers Debt Paid: Trusts--->$CASH$--->WMILT--->Equity Interests (75%/25%)
Do you know exactly who owes you here and how much? Please enlighten us with this info and how that knowledge will increase or decrease our future distributions.