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I was responding to LP about the employees vested interests (#555030) and YOU butted in about the FDIC holding $151B in assets (#555040). So actually it was YOU who changed the subject and now making up stories.
As I just posted to gold, the $151B subrogated claim the FDIC referenced was a Deposit claim. Try reading the balance sheet on it's website. You do know what Deposits are right?...it's right there in language anyone could understand.
Proven Deposit Claims (in $000's)
FDIC Subrogated Claim
$151,150,664 100 %
SubTotal - Proven Deposit Claims…….(your $151B asset)
$151,150,664 100 %
Less: Dividends Paid to Date
$151,150,664 100 %
Total Unpaid Deposit Claims $0
Not that you would know anything but that's wasn't the point...plank! The FDIC doesn't have Off-Balance sheet assets...read their balance sheet for once, they're not a BANK!!! The $151B fwh keeps posting are assets were the claims of WMB depositors which were ""paid"" by the FDIC. You know nothing...…..
Proven Deposit Claims (in $000's)
FDIC Subrogated Claim
$ 151,150,664 100 %
SubTotal - Proven Deposit Claims
$ 151,150,664 100 %
Less: Dividends Paid to Date
151,150,664 100 %
Total Unpaid Deposit Claims $0
Quote: "Do you really expect the FDIC to actually tell the value of OFF BALANCE ASSETS, as OB does not have to be reported & they are the crooks who were a party to the taking. R is the holding arm of the FDIC."
I may be "thick" but my memory still works unlike...... . Nowhere did you reference JPM in the initial post. Fake post as usual
Seems you don't get that thing called sarcasm...now back to the point. Show one document or link to one where the FDIC labels any assets it controls as Off-Balance. Stop obfuscating......
AZ: "... If' ? ... You hold an actual "Interest" in the WMI Liquidation Trust, the WMI-LT, known as an LTI', YOU' have already been issued an LTI' ... No additional LTI's will be issued by the WMI-LT'"
WMILT: "In accordance with the Plan, the Trust will issue Liquidating Trust Interests to WMI’s former shareholders if, and only if, the Trust is able to monetize Liquidating Trust Assets in amounts sufficient to pay-in-full claims held by beneficiaries of the Trust who are senior to members of Classes 19 and 22,"
Who do I believe, AZ or the WMILT???
I never knew that the FDIC was a bank and that they held secret Off-Balance sheet assets...what an eyeopener.
Please direct us to any document where it shows the FDIC holding Off-Balance sheet assets without reporting what they consist of.
To state outright that there are none is taking the opposing extreme to those that believe in $30B+ coming back.
The fact is there is ample factual evidence proving WAMU retained substantial interests in Trusts they sponsored.
In the runup to the 2008 financial crisis this was actually standard practice in the banking industry.
What is unclear is what happened to these interests, whether they went to JPM or are currently secured by Safe Harbor rules.
I'm supposed to prove that this quack theory of the FDIC holding $151B in WMI assets is wrong???
How about you providing one shred of reliable evidence that it's accurate and not being misunderstood as are most of our interpretations of documents here.
IF, and that's a huge IF, the FDIC holds assets that WMI has some interest in it certainly won't be worth anywhere near these silly figures being quoted.
Either way based on the recent response to Option from the FDIC it seems they do not hold anything so it's all moot.
Here we go again...like a broken record stuck on the same note. It was never WMI owned assets, get over it.
$40 stock options on what, WAMUQ...really? Reality check, those securities are gone so clearly they do not represent the "vested equity claim" of the employees. IMO that claim will be pro-rated between all the claimants in the distribution of the remaining 125K COOP shares in the DER.
SO WHICH IS IT?...IT CAN'T BE BOTH...
POR 6 would have eliminated Equity and gifted the Newco and ALL former Debtor/DIP assets to AAOC as 100% owners of WMIH.
POR 7 preserved Equity and gave 100% ownership of WMIH and the Debtor/DIP assets to Equity as the last surviving ""claimant"" after Creditors are paid.
According to the COOP owns WMI/WMIIC assets, POR 7 was never passed since the Newco once again owns legacy Debtor/DIP assets.
Even worse, investors such as KKR who now own the majority (80%+) of COOP will be the major beneficiaries of any legacy assets.
How if this was done any different to what the FDIC did with WMB where it's assets were dissipated with no compensation to WMI???
So which plan was passed exactly...POR 6 or POR 7?
What about this??? Was this the same Examiner report where he claimed limited access to the books or was there a full report on those Retained Assets?
Quote: "And so what we've built into this order as well is a mechanism where the report of the examiner would be divided into two parts, or it could come in two chapters: The first would be the issues that are necessary on the settled assets component for purposes of voting under the plan, and then we provided in our proposed time frame that three weeks later the examiner could produce the second chapter of the report on the retained assets, so that the examiner would have a little bit more time to work on the retained assets after getting the part finished on the settled assets.
Pg 72 of link below......
Court Transcript
Seriously...except for the ultra loyalists, nobody is buying this "WMI property is now COOP's" theory.
Actual documents state which entity now represents WMI's interests in terms of Title to assets and it's not COOP.
Not only that but the theory makes absolutely no sense if examined using logic and common sense.
I understand why facts like, QSR's are bankruptcy docs, COOP's major owners never released and what LT Assets comprise of, are inconvenient.
May I suggest you reexamine what a "SUCCESSOR IN INTEREST" actually means, it could be very enlightening.
In addition, an actual expert in the field, CBA09 has always asserted that legacy assets belong to our Markers not COOP.
I think i'll stick with CBA's assessment for obvious reasons!!!
WAMU's case is totally different from LEH's because WAMU did not engage in the esoteric products that fueled the 2008 crisis such as CDS's CDO's, Synthetic CDO's which were leveraged against the same assets over and over.
The Trust already distributed about half the shares in the DCR a couple years ago to our Markers and were left with only ~1.5M shares. After the recent 12/1 RS that figure was reduced to ~125K. They quoted the exact figure in a recent filing, I believe it was 125K but I could be wrong.
There were over a million shares but now only 110K-125K after the R/S.
Your statement that...quote, "(a) For class 19, there is no language indicating that a redistribution of LTIs to that class would be shared pari passu with another class.", is correct. The distribution will not occur at the same rate or equally, ie pari passu, with another class, but rather that Preferred will receive 75% and Commons/Dime 25% instead. Only the Commons and Dimes 25% distribution will be shared pari passu between both.
Quote: "23.1 Treatment of Preferred Equity Interests: Commencing on the Effective Date, and subject to the execution and delivery of a release in accordance with the provisions of Section 41.6 of the Plan, each holder of a Preferred Equity Interest, including, without limitation, each holder of a REIT Series, shall be entitled to receive such holder’s Pro Rata Share of seventy five percent (75%) of (a) subject to the right of election provided in Sections 6.2(b), 7.2(b), 16.1(b)(ii), 18.2(b), 19.2(b) and 20.2(b) of the Plan, the Reorganized Common Stock, and (b) in the event that all Allowed Claims and Post-petition Interest Claims in respect of Allowed Claims are paid in full (including with respect to Allowed Subordinated Claims), any Liquidating Trust Interests to be redistributed;
Quote: "25.1 Treatment of Common Equity Interests: Commencing on the Effective Date, and subject to the execution and delivery of a release in accordance with the provisions of Section 41.6 of the Plan, each holder of Common Equity Interests shall be entitled to receive such holder’s Pro Rata Share of twenty five percent (25%) of (a) subject to the right of election provided in Sections 6.2(b), 7.2(b), 16.1(b)(ii), 18.2(b), 19.2(b) and 20.2(b) of the Plan, the Reorganized Common Stock and (b) in the event that all Allowed Claims and Post-petition Interest Claims in respect of Allowed Claims are paid in full (including with respect to Allowed Subordinated Claims), any Liquidating Trust Interests to be redistributed"
24.1 Treatment of Dime Warrants: Commencing on the Effective Date, and subject to the execution and delivery of a release in accordance with the provisions of Section 41.6 of the Plan, each holder of Dime Warrants shall be entitled to receive such holder’s Pro Rata Share of twenty five percent (25%) of (a) subject to right of election provided in Sections 6.2(b), 7.2(b), 16.1(b)(ii), 18.2(b), 19.2(b) and 20.2(b) of the Plan, the Reorganized Common Stock and (b) in the event that all Allowed Claims and Post-petition Interest Claims in respect of Allowed Claims are paid in full (including with respect to Allowed Subordinated Claims), any Liquidating Trust Interests to be redistributed, each to be shared on a pari passu basis with holders of Common Equity Interests"
The paragraphs above prove that any redistributed LTI's to Tranche 6 will be divided 75% between Preferred and 25% between Commons/Dimes (pari passu).
Your question: Where can I find the Documents that specify how 'WMI value' is distributed? Also, who would be in charge of this distribution?"
choo choo's quote: "The answer is the Debtors in Possession and they do not have to report anything to anybody! The Wonders of Bankruptcy Protection!
Now I wonder who the Successor in Interest to the Debtor in Possession's property could possibly be???
Quote: "WMI Liquidating Trust (“WMILT” or the “Trust”), as successor in interest to Washington Mutual, Inc. (“WMI”) and WMI Investment Corp. (“WMIC”), formerly debtors and debtors in possession (collectively, the “Debtors”)2, files this motion"
He agrees with me and doesn't even know it...LOL
Did LEH equity survive after approval of the bankruptcy plan?
Are they eligible to receive any distribution from remaining cash/assets?
If not, i'm unclear how that bankruptcy is comparable to ours.
Read very slowly and try to process the info presented.....
1) Contained in all WMILT Documents: "WMI Liquidating Trust (“WMILT” or the “Trust”), as successor in interest to Washington Mutual, Inc. (“WMI”) and WMI Investment Corp. (“WMIC”), formerly debtors and debtors in possession (collectively, the “Debtors”)2, files this motion"
2) Successor in Interest: "The term successor in interest means a successor to another's interest in property, especially a successor in ownership of a business that is carried on and controlled substantially as it was before the transfer."
3) What property?: The former property that was owned by the entities referred to in (1), ie WMI and WMIC ie the "Debtors" and "Debtors in Possession".
This is how the WMILT is entitled to distribute Safe Harbored assets of the Debtor/Debtor in Possession. Simple facts combined with common sense and logic. Still confused???
10 years on and someone actually thinks WMB filed bankruptcy...lolololol. mattchoo???...more like mattpoo!
Rule 1015(b) tripe is clearly a bankruptcy rule, it has ZERO to do with the WMB Receivership. To this day "choo" still thinks and posts that WMB filed for bankruptcy. It's hysterical!!!
You misunderstood my post...the Trusts don't have to be fully liquidated for us to receive distributions from them.
If you're correct then if there are Trusts that run till 2030 will we have to wait until then???
That IMO is not how this works but rather all Creditors must be paid and/or the bankruptcy closed.
Only then will the WMILT be able to seek out legacy assets and distributions from the Trusts.
The Trustees are hindered from making distributions by the bankruptcy, not part of the delay.
The EC litigation being used to hamper resolution of this case is 100% due to the LT counsel IMO.
I don't see how those independent Trustees could control or care about the scheduling of the bankruptcy.
Their sole job is to manage Trust assets and distribute payments to the all individual investors.
If WMI has retained interests, the generated cash is being deposited into an escrowed account on our behalf.
IMO, delaying resolution or the timeframe to end the WMI bankruptcy is not a concern of theirs.
With the recent response from the FDIC to Option's question stating that they do not expect the WMB Receivership to be resolved for ""years"" due to still ongoing litigation, what is the possibility that Tranche 6 could start receiving distributions before the FDIC's Class 17a (Snr) + 17b (Sub) Noteholder debt???
How much of that $38M represents the denied Golden Parachute payments and how much the ETRIP-SERAP / "Allowed Claims"???
Initially the WMILT agreed to a settlement with the Employees/Class 18 to pay $38M in claims but this was strongly opposed by the FDIC in court. It was only after the FDIC objection to payments of the Golden Parachute claims did the LT make a 180 deg turn and rejected the deal.
I sent an email 3 days ago to the WMILT re the current status of the WAMU Capital Trust 2001 assets,...whether they are still there or were already liquidated and used to pay WMI Creditors. Still awaiting their response.
Most of that $38M would have come from the Golden Parachute payments which is usually a lump sum bonus payment of a few multiples of an employees yearly salary.
Well stated sir...""I tip my hat""
When we had AAOC by the "cohones" for alleged insider trading, that IMO was our greatest bargaining chip. If the issue went to trial and they were found guilty ALL their payments could have been "clawed back". I find it difficult to believe that all the EC negotiated for was shares in the Newco which, at that time, no one was sure would be successful.
What crime did either one commit??? What they pulled off was morally despicable but legal in the eyes of the only body that matters...the Court(s). All this hyperventilating and hysterics 10 years later isn't going to alter past events...it's a done deal!!!
All I can say is that i'm prepared for any outcome be it we are abundantly or minimally rewarded, or not rewarded at all. I most humbly advise that all here adopt the same view.
I honestly don't know how he expects our liquidated WMI/WMIIC legacy interests, IF ANY, will be distributed to our Markers if the WMILT doesn't ""pursue"" them on our behalf. I don't believe in the "tooth fairy $$".....
This is part of the reason why I don't take the claims that JPM has to pay the FDIC billion$ for WMB assets once the ""CIC"" is finalized.
JPM, IMO, successfully pulled off what is probably the biggest heist in human history without firing a single shot.
It's becoming apparent that the main source of any distribution we receive will come from WMI interests in MBS's they retained.
Quote: "We also have in there the part (b) of what is to be retained, and that is because in negotiations that we had with all of the settling parties, with the equity committee last week, with the FDIC, we did talk a great deal about the concept of the Retained Assets. Now, it's my position, Your Honor, that the examiner doesn't need to do much with the Retained Assets other than say the assets are retained and therefore the liquidating trust can go ahead and pursue them. They will still be there; they can be carried through. But I understand that the equity committee is very interested in having a neutral third party do an investigation of those Retained Assets.
What were these Retained Assets that were being referenced for the Examiner to report on...was a detailed report ever presented??? Could they have simply been referring to WMMRC's RON's, our share of WAMU's Tax returns with JPM, lawsuits against the Underwriters and Ratings agencies and the outstanding Tax litigations (which we lost in court) ????
By using the phrase,..."the assets are retained and therefore the liquidating trust can go ahead and pursue them", tells me that the LT at that point has not accessed those assets. WMMRC was WMI's direct sub so there would be no need for the LT to pursue it's assets and also the Tax returns where IMO the sharing agreement with JPM and the FDIC was already reached.
That only leaves the outstanding Tax litigation and lawsuits against certain companies deemed to have harmed WAMU. Can these ambiguous issues where the outcome was unknown be actually deemed as Retained Assets?...I find that a bit difficult to accept. There must be more there that we are not yet privy to that the LT will eventually "pursue" once they are legally able to.
Quote: "That's right, WMB is/was/went the BK route after seizure!"
Huuhhhhhhh????
Can't even get the most basic fact right, yet lectures others...LOL SMH
The atrocious delay in resolving the Piers debt by using the EC's as the excuse is pitiful at best. There seems to be some coordination between certain parties in an effort to keep all the outstanding issues timed for a simultaneous completion. This IMO was evident when the EC case was suddenly brought forward for adjudication from 2019 to 2018 without warning. My only concern is how any WAMU retained interests were treated ie whether they are 100% WMI's, co-owned between WMI + WMB or somehow absconded with by JPM.
If WMI had beneficial interests in those DB Trusts the reason for the delay in distribution would surely be the open bankruptcy and existing Piers debt, as is customary in Trust documents.
As for why Class 17 have not received a distribution from their supporting Euro Notes I cannot say other than some here believe those Notes are not associated with Class 17 whatsoever.
On that last point I reserve judgement since I have not seen proof for or against either position.
If you don't understand what I'm referring to the obvious remedy would be to educate yourself. When I speculate I state such as in my $2-$10B expectation etc. What I was posting about was the false claims that are made daily by certain posters and supported by those who read nothing. I and others have posted actual documents which prove these claims are false, yet the "cheerleaders" never take the time to confirm this. The result is the same rubbish being repeatedly posted as fact. I will list just a few of the erroneous claims that are made...…
- Old WMI Preferred stocks are bonds...FALSE
- Trust interests are Class specific...FALSE
- Commons own the WMI estate...FALSE
- WMI Preferred stock (not TPS) were backed by Trusts...FALSE
- Equity will not be issued LTI's IF there is cash left...FALSE etc etc
ALL PROVEN FALSE USING OFFICIAL AVAILABLE DOCUMENTS
Honestly I think you should pursue Option in getting the email address of the FDIC official since you IMO would be able to present that question more succinctly. No offence to Option though....