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I called the number, they have the Save Aspen Group number mixed up with the Save VirTra number. Must be a real hi end outfit.
They would get far more response if they changed from savevirtra to fireferris…..catchier too.
And guess what, I believe the Q4 audit was formally completed on May 16th and Q1 on May 20th.
So now the question is…..why isn’t Ferris filing the SEC reports? What is the BOD being told? Why is the co-CEO acting like a shy little kid and not grabbing the bull by the horns the way a real leader would?
And now the buyout! Fabulous
It is now 50 Days past the deadline for Q4 results! Truly unbelievable. And (for Bill’s sake) 3 days past the deadline for Q1 results.
The number of demos they do is tiny. Insignificant in my opinion. They should have full time rigs criss crossing the country at all times like Axon is doing. Publish a schedule, pull into a city, set up the system, host (wine/dine/demo) the important customers, open to everyone, follow up. and repeat repeat repeat.
VirTra does very little of this.
Even worse, they should be flying in customers to their HQ at least twice a week for the same treatment, wine/dine/demo/demo. They do this several times a year but certainly not every day or even every week.
It is SO OBVIOUS what needs to be done.
Of course SEC reports are also obvious.
Ferris and his children own about 6.5%.
One poster on this message board owns about 3.5%.
Another couple are about 2 to 3% each.
At my peak I was 4%, now about 0.5%.
I would guess there are between 1000 and 2000shareholders.
I would also guess the top ten retail shareholders own maybe 11 to 14%.
I do think the right activist investment firm could get enough support to install their own slate of directors IF they thought there was enough money to be made. That is the problem with several activists I contacted, they all saw the potential but each also thought VirTra was simply too tiny to be worth the effort.
The VirTra "Sales Organization" is mostly a "Phone Answering" department. Nothing more, nothing less. Ferris has no idea how to best sell VirTra products and he has no desire to set up a Sales Organization to sell product. If he wanted to do it, it would have already happened a decade ago. Yes, VirTra has some Regional Sales Managers but they are not empowered in any way, they are barely incentivized in any way. My guess is that if a RSM sells $10mil of product in 6 months his/her compensation is no different than if he sold $2mil. And the key to understanding all of this is this: THIS IS HOW FERRIS WANTS IT.
Ferris believes "if we build it, they will come." He believes if our product is better than competition then all buyers will come to us. He places zero value on a good salesperson. He cannot understand that the MOST VALUABLE ASSET any company has is a great salesperson. He will never ever let any sales person earn more money than an average engineer. He believes it is unfair for the rank and file employees to make 10x less than an exceptional salesperson. He does not understand that at MANY companies, the top sales people earn more than the CEO. So, guess what, VirTra will never have a great salesperson with Ferris as CEO.
How do I know all the above?
1. Look at the CEO contentment with YOY 10% growth.
2. Look at the major efforts Ferris did make over the last decade to improve sales. All were focused on establishing a work-free way to generate sales. First was the Gander Mtn disaster, Second was the Modern Round disaster, Third is in progress right now that I refer to as the Military disaster. Ferris wants orders to flow in without any effort from salespeople. A noble goal I admit, but it will never happen with products and systems costing $200,000.
3. Several years ago when I sat at a conf rm table in Tempe with Ferris and Mulcahy, Ferris made it clear what he thought of sales people earning alot of money. He looked at me like I was a moron as I explained to him the sort of hand holding buddy buddy stuff a good salesperson does over months to years to lay the groundwork for an order of $300,000 to $1,000,000+. He more or less told me that the way other companies sell $300,000 systems does not apply to VirTra. I proposed a variety of things he could have easily done to "test" what I was telling him. Seems to me it fell on deaf ears.
And all of the above pales in comparison to the current problem. What were the Q4 numbers? What were the Q1 numbers? How is Q2 progressing? Silence.
Yet the BOD sits idly by......
At this point any and all speculation on Ferris’ motives are in play.
Think about the mechanics of what is involved to fully audit a tiny company like VirTra with $20mil in sales from a very limited product line and literally a hand full of orders each month. It is SIMPLE! One single person could EASILY complete this in 80 hours of work along with the cooperation of the company finance/accounting personnel.
So it is fair to speculate on the game Ferris is playing. I used to think he was smart and just a little “mad scientist disorganized.” But I do not think that is the case. His actions as CEO suggest an inability to recognize and focus on what is important. An inability and lack of desire to grow the company aggressively. And because he installed a BOD filled with spineless jellyfish no one holds him accountable.
He must be removed as CEO.
The new Snickers bag of bars has been downsized, it disappeared fast……Is VirTra really gonna also miss the Q1 deadline? This is really difficult to believe. Each of the directors needs to be individually and collectively sued by shareholders.
I preface this with every disclaimer possible. It is all just pure guesswork on my part, Just as likely to be wrong as correct.
Burlend- he goes way back with Ferris, they traveled together frequently during VirTra early days, they trust each other and Burlend will ALWAYs defer to and agree with Ferris. Burlend will walk off a 1000foot cliff if Ferris asks him to. Burlend adds no value as a director. At best he is an average engineering manager, not qualified in any way to live up to his titles.
Richardson- Ferris got to know him when VirTra tried to buy his company NaturalPoint but VirTra lost out to a China based company that offered more $. They came to be friends via the buyout negotiations and Ferris asked Richardson to be a director….only one catch….Richardson may have had to agree to never try to take control of VirTra.
Brown- Local Phoenix guy who did some accounting work for VirTra and Ferris going way back a couple decades. While he is a director he is 100% completely hands off and does not stand up for shareholders or anyone else. He is a pure rubber stamp, just occupies a chair. When I spoke to him several years ago his attitude stunk, he did not care about shareholders, couldn’t fathom why anyone (me) was calling him to ask questions and to go to bat for shareholders.
Givens-No idea. But perhaps (I hope) this was a major mistake by Ferris and he actually picked someone willing to grow the company and take down the arrogant insecure emperor. While that is my hope, I think this pick was Ferris way of buying some key military contacts.
The one thing I have never understood is why Richardson has not taken over the company. I also believe that for Greene and Burlend to be on the BOD is asinine.
And I truly admire that you are able to view things in the manner that you do. I wish I had a bit of your patience/calm/smarts.
What bugs me the most are the simple things that companies screw up, easily avoided unforced errors. With VirTra it is communication, it is being comfortable with a pedestrian BOD, lack of annual objectives, no 3 year plan, no 5 year plan, poor choices in hiring, etc. It never bothers me when a company messes up something that is difficult and complicated. But when they mess up the little things that are easy then I lose my mind. They had 90 days to file the Q4 and 2021 numbers.....yet they don't realize until a week before the deadline that they might miss it? Another crazy one is the "Co-CEO" position(s). That is stupid, utter nonsense, and screams to investors that "we are idiots."
Now in spite of all that, VTSI stock is holding up amazingly well. So apparently many of the shares are (thankfully) in very strong hands. Remarkable in this market.
.....I'll grab some more Snickers and revisit next week.
Actually that is not adequate. Right now VirTra is not investable because the company has not provided a quarterly report for 6 months, since mid-November 2021.
While I admire your efforts at research and figuring out what might be coming VirTra's way, you really need to ask yourself why you need to do this research? VirTra should be the one keeping shareholders and potential investors informed. It is part of their job, part of their responsibility. And while there are confidentiality requirements and other hurdles associated with government business, those sorts of things are EASILY overcome by most every other company in the world....but not VirTra.
Every January VirTra could provide one year of forward guidance. But they choose not to. Why? Because it makes the CEOs job easy if there are no milestones to hit, no revenue ranges to meet, no eps deliverable. They could break their revenue into LE, Federal, and STEP. They could update guidance quarterly. They could buy back shares. They could issue quarterly reports. They could accept questions from shareholders during their conf calls. They do none of these things.
So why am I here? Because I know Ferris reads this message board multiple times every day. He told me that several different times. I want him to understand his actions are hurting shareholders and I want him to improve. If he didn't read this board, I would not post. From a stock perspective, I am now back in to nickel and dime a bit. Swing trade. No illusions of VirTra or VTSI becoming big,,,,,until the management either improves or is upgraded.
Except there is now no way to know the impact (good or bad) on VirTra since the company has stopped publishing quarterly results.
May 10th…Silence…No Q4, No Q1…..BOD MUST Remove Robert Ferris as CEO Oh.
What I can’t figure out is this….Why didn’t (and why doesn’t) Ferris simply issue a PR with the preliminary unaudited numbers? Many companies do this every quarter to get info in the hands of investors asap. The Qs and Ks can come later. For example, RFP does it this way every quarter.
Now to answer my above question….It is because Ferris surrounds himself with third tier talent and “yes men”. He is too insecure to be subjected to challenges, too stubborn to be open to better ways and ideas. He simply doesn’t understand that the company and his own life would be 10x more productive with better executives, better employees, and a top notch BOD.
Good to see your post. I was sorta hoping you would sometimes check in. At this point VirTra is not going to make anyone rich. But it is a stock to swing trade a bit and try to time based on the ebbs and flows. Pretty easy to get a 50% to 200% return here and there with it. Right now is one of those times but only if they come out with Q4 and Q1 this week.
No Q4 numbers, No Q1 numbers, Down goes the stock and rightfully so.
Not even a PR update from the co-CEO ohs.
How can they be this arrogant, this detached?
….off to the store for more Snickers
Yet another apparent example of Ferris' inability to hire top tier talent. An inability to discern quality and competency verses bottom-of-the-barrel sludge.
My recent 3.30 buys trump that! Congrats to us!
Good idea, I like Snickers! What bugs me is that this is a 100% unforced error that was easily avoided. Even today the company could announce unaudited results. Yet they choose to keep shareholders in the dark. Why?
And where is the PR with Q1 release date?
This is getting pretty serious at this point. May is month 5 of 2022……and the company will not tell us how 2021 finished? Pretty much the end of Ferris’ career.
Why does Ferris think new drapery for his office windows is more important than Q4 and Q1 numbers? Perhaps more interior designers have been through the new offices than employees.
Looking more like Joe Montana at 66years old.
Why is Givens sitting on Q4 and Q1 numbers?
Both CEOs know the Q4 and Q1 numbers yet are unwilling to do their job and make the numbers public. This is just pathetic. Truly unbelievable. Why do VirTra employees put up with this level of incompetence from their leadership?
Where are the Q4 and Q1 numbers?
I’m with ya in the Hope department. Been hoping now for 13 years.
Another thing….why is Ferris so eager to decrease his own influence at VirTra? He diluted the snot out of himself last year. Now he gave half his job away. Bizarre.
Sure hope you are right but he has been with the company for over 18months now. ….I mean no disrespect but what has he done? With an 18month record at VirTra why weren’t his “VirTra” accomplishments hilighted in todays PR?
And where are the Q4 and Q1 numbers?
I played with fire….and got burned!…..oh well
Pondering further……if Q4 and Q1 were good then this co CEO thingy was likely voluntary. If Q4 and/or Q1 stunk then this co CEO thingy was the BOD firing a shot at Ferris.
Most telling will be who they will appoint to the BOD to replace Givens. If it is a credible person then perhaps brighter skys ahead. If it is another no name small timer who has never competed on the big stage then.....blah.
Why do you consider this good news? I like the idea of change, I like that he has done it before, but can a company really have two chefs in the kitchen? Why not just make him CEO and have Bob retain COB? Was this forced on Bob by Givens working behind his back to convince the BOD it was necessary? Is this the first step toward Bob being moved out?
And they could have used the PR today to update us on the status of Q4 and Q1 numbers now that 2022 is almost half done....it is May after all.
The real question is this…..Why is Ferris refusing to announce the Q4 and Q1 numbers? Why? He knows EXACTLY where Q4 finished and EXACTLY where Q1 finished. Gateway IR recommended to Ferris that he release “preliminary unaudited” numbers and Ferris said “No.”
This what I was told in a conversation with Gateway. The guy I talked to seemed to me to be frustrated with Ferris’ decision and sorta threw him under da bus.
Over 1 full month of delay. There is no plausible excuse for this. Pure CEO arrogance, absolute CEO incompetence, a BOD that fails to do its job.
Why is Robert Ferris still the CEO? Continued mis-steps, continued delays, snails pace of growth, lemons from lemonade time after time. Defeat from the jaws of victory.
Only reason I mentioned the lawsuit thingy is cuz lawyers are actively trolling (as in fishing) for a lead plaintiff. Got one phone call Sunday and another this morning. They must have a shareholder list.
If they don’t announce by May 1st, it will be a $3 stock by end of May 2nd. I also would guess a lawsuit or two will be filed either tomorrow or Thursday.
One week from today is May 2nd and……crickets! I still can’t fathom why Ferris is doing this?
I bought a few more shares today as well. Problem now is there are a lot of great stock buys out there in the micro cap space. But I do think VTSI could pop pretty good …..in spite of the CEO.
I sure hope they are right. Hard to imagine Ferris is so arrogant and stupid as to enter May without releasing the Q4 numbers. And IF IF IF he and the BOD cared even one iota about shareholders they would issue the Q1 results at the same time.....and provide Q2 guidance (since it is already half over from a revenue standpoint).
It should be easy now as with the new ERP system all the financials are always up to date.
Its even worse than that. We have not even gotten "preliminary" or "unaudited" or "estimated" Q4 results. WE HAVE NOT GOTTEN ANY Q4 RESULTS. None. This is unbelievable at this point.
They could have released estimated numbers or preliminary numbers or even just said "here are the unaudited numbers and they are subject to change." Yet instead they chose to keep everyone in the dark. How freaking stupid was that decision. And why did they decide to do that?
If the CEO and BOD did not have such a well documented history of stupid decisions I would say there were sinister motives at play. But since they have such a long record of mis-steps this is likely just another.
April 20th!!!!
No Q4 numbers.
No Q1 numbers.
No 2022 guidance.
Miracle the stock is over $5.
Miracle lawsuits haven’t been filed.
2022 is now 40% complete in terms of revenue yet we don’t even know how 2021 finished.
Why hasn’t BOD fired Ferris?
Every BOD member should be individually sued for failing in their duties.
What spineless, gutless, “leadership”.
For one thing their “search” was clearly a charade.
Another is the simultaneous hire. Bod already stealing thunder.
Biggest problem for me is the age of the CEO.
Second biggest is the experience of the President.
But it’s easy to Monday am quarterback, so maybe they will each surprise. I don’t own their shares but do follow them, if they did have even half a brain they do a hostile takeover of VirTra.