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Jamie himself is a human error LOL <EOM>
I've got a question.
Now, by the Judge Tricadia's rulling debtors have to try to keep the 17 billion NOLs, right?
To keep those NOLs, shareholders must remain intact and keep the 51% of the new company (cannot be a ownership change), right?
Also, I have a question. This 17 billion future NOLs are that, 'future'. Is there a way to calculate or value what that means in 'today's money'. I guess 17 billion of tax refunds are interesting for a big company that can use it, but I guess they are not going to be so silly as to pay 17 billion in tax writeoffs at face-value. What value would it have then? 80%? 50%? 30%? I think it would be interesting to know similar cases valuations.
Thank you all, and good luck guys.
Yeah, I liked to read about those 4 lawyers. That's because he's paying attention, not being physically there but sending some staff.
I was worried when a couple of months ago he (Susman) only billed like ONE hour, but in the last bill he billed like 10.5 hours I think.
I think (hope) he is now getting prepared to war.
LOL that was funny <EOM>
what makes me boil my blood is that those MF want to give away whatever is left from their robbery 'to a charitable foundation' (yeah right) before using it to compensate even a little us shareholders.
Bastards.
There is another issue that concerns me (being talked on the Y! forums)
What if JPM settles with TPS outside of the Chapter 11 proceedings?
They would be simply assumed by JPM and everything remains the same.
Prefs (equity) being out of the money by 500 million (or 100, or whatever)
Unless we can get with a positive valuation of assets, we could be at the same position no matter what TPS does.
IDEA: Colaborative asset/NOLs list
Hello
I propose you guys something:
How about if we make a colaborative doc with Wamu's assets list valuation?
I propose something like this (example):
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=t0SNf-aaoWUcKTFvm3mEf6g&hl=en&authkey=CM3nzbMH#gid=0
This spreadsheet is open for everyone to modify it, but that's just the idea.
We could make a 'good one' with restricted users access to modify the data.
Let me know if you think it could be interesting.
IDEA: Colaborative asset/NOLs list
Hello
I propose you guys something:
How about if we make a colaborative doc with Wamu's assets list valuation?
I propose something like this (example):
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=t0SNf-aaoWUcKTFvm3mEf6g&hl=en&authkey=CM3nzbMH#gid=0
This spreadsheet is open for everyone to modify it, but that's just the idea.
We could make a 'good one' with restricted users access to modify the data.
Let me know if you think it could be interesting.
With JPMs 10b claim and FDICKs 27 billion claim Rossy doesn't need the MARTA claim any more...
yeah, like in the k-mart case <EOM>
This is all upside down.
We sue FDIC for billions and then we know by Rosen and his BS voting process that we owe FDIC 27 billion $...
I guess he has to explain that (and JPMs 10 billion too) in Open Court...
I think Rosen has reached too far... he should be disbarred if this is found to be illegal or with no grounds...
I hope the same.
I didn't see anything that would make me think THJMW is with the enemy. I saw a mild, very mild judge, that didn't want to have any confrontation with anyone, but no clear signs of her being corrupt.
Also, we all saw some nice moments where she questioned Rosen, I really miss those moments and hope for more.
Good luck.
I envy you. You look very confident. I am very afraid.
Are you sure?
This BK case has showed me that 'legal' doesn't mean 'fair' or 'just'.
they have played a mockery on the court and system....
they fell right into the trap and showed their hand... yet claim there are no assets and A<L when their voting shows otherwise... especially the FDIC... where did that come from is very questionable.
What do you think will happen?
Why not ONE TRILLION?
When I read about the voting rights (FDIC $27.9 Bil; JPM $10 Bil) I get sick. I guess, debtors and Rossy have to defend and explain their position and their numbers.
Hope for justice...
"immenently confirmable and will be confirmed in a week"??
Even though she later says "if the plan is not confirmed then..." it doesn't sound good to me.
What do you mean? Sorry but don't understand what do you want to say...
Tricadia won and WAMPQ tanking?
-5% now.
Can anyone explain this?
Thank you.
So tell me what happens when the POR gets aproved. That's why I don't see Susman around here for the next 2 years.
I don't think Susman (or other attorney) will accept to work for free, even if they are promised a percentage of the recoveries.
I think we have to fight with what we have, I don't believe in fairy tales.
But I see a problem here.
Who's gonna pay lawyers during that time? Do you think it's going to be possible to make a super-fund raising to pay good lawyers during this two year term?
i don't think so.
If POR aproved, equity dissolved and POOF, we're gone.
thank you for your info<eom>
Thank you sir.
Your take on Tricadia's issue? Do you think they will refer to K-Mart case in open court?
I think they clearly described what we all see debtors are trying to do, but don't know if they have legal weight to get a rulling from what they think it's fair...
I don't have much expectations on this one...
What's up for today's hearing?<EOM>
sure, tell this to pre-bk owners.
I don't quite agree with you.
This BK case is a joke. It looks as the circus clowns show instead of a multibillion dollar bankrupcy case.
Examiner is lazy and instead of asking for a time extension he just bases his job on confidential material (that cannot be checked by other parties) provided by the debtors. The same poisonous apple that FDIC ate from JPM. Different players, same game.
Now we have that a semi-government agency (FDICK) messed all this WMB issue, but because they are govenment, and appointed by God, it looks as if everything is right.
FDIC believed info provided by JPM. No problemo amigo, WMI shareholders pay. At worst, taxpayers pay.
JPM got through the case as the World Economic saviour. What? Do you mean they are not? They paid 1.9 billion for a wrecked bank. Nobody wanted it (it doesn't matter if it was because JPM had moles inside, or was talking bad about wamu)...
So now, just in case shareholders get near IN THE MONEY (someone got a shiver down the spine when naked short selling covering was mentioned), JPM claims 10 billion dollars. 10 billion what? How much money have JPM made out of the 1.9 billion investment? I have to remember that they haven't paid yet, not the 1.9 billion, nor the 4 billion in cash...
I man, I miss those old times where the crowd would go out on ire and hang a thieve (or more) from the highest tree around.
If the trustee is as good as the examiner then we are f....
Nice thought. Could be an 'ok, let's go to war' advice.
I hope it's not an under-the-table arrangement.
Guess we will see soon.
OK, I just hope some peeps are going suffer a boiling tabasco enema.
Any thoughts on JPM's 10billion claim?
I find it outrageous the latest JPM filling, but what I find worrying, is that at some level, they're right.
They seem to be playing the 'good guy' role, and that's true. If one should be liable for what happened in this case, actually it would be the FDIC, not JPM.
We all know through our collective DD that JPM were the 'man in the shadow' , the ones that planned everything, but, we have to probe it and that's not going to be easy.
So now they claim, huh? we already paid 1.9 bilion and now we are suppossed to pay more? why?
I don't kno exactly how to take it, I would like to know your opinion, guys.
thank you withcatz <EOM>
Thank you very much for your answers.
Therefore, I still expect an objection from Susman, and as you say, full of references to be treated later on.
I had an (I think important) question left unanswered. If the POR gets voted YES by all parties, do they (debtors) have to deal with any objections? I mean, if the plan is voted by all parties, then it might look as if everything is OK and objections may be swept under the rug.
Thanks for your time and knowledge.
SORRY SORRY SORRY
I just realized it is yesterday's data.
Looks as if it's not updating data...
Germany +16%
I think we will get more and more objections filed as we get near the deadline (Nov 19th, 16:00) being Susman's objections the main one (if there's any).
I've got a question.
Are those all objections going to be treated at the confirmation POR hearing or they don't have to? I mean, can anyone file an objection or only the legal representatives are the only ones to be heard.
What about the 'letters'? Do they have any legal weight?
Having seen (at the DS aproval process) what we have seen (none of the +700 objections were treated) do the debtors have to deal with the objections or if the voting process is OK with all the parties GAME OVER???
I would like any legal insight on this...
TIA
Excuse me, I'm lost here.
Why would Hs vote for the plan for 'just' 73% recovery if they can aim the whole 100% ??
Why do you think they'll vote FOR the plan?