Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Good buy to sell ratio today..
just still no volume.
I guess either nobody found any info or
don't care to find any info
on those 2 cases I cited the other that were vacated and remanded
back to PTAB and what is currently going on with them
in regards to pacer documents along the lines of calendar of events
or a decision.
Gotcha you were that big buyer at .22...
200k I believe...
Honestly I have not even looked at anything pertaining to ATVI in a long time.
Not even their share price.
Decided January 2018 Vacated and remanded- MAxlinear Case
http://www.cafc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/opinions-orders/17-1039.Opinion.1-23-2018.1.PDF
Still awaiting PTAB decision as far as I can tell as of right now
in Oct.
Decided March 2018 vacated and remanded - Nestle
https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=4224951850071379490&hl=en&as_sdt=6&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr
Still no decision as far as I can tell from PTAB.
Will somebody who already has a pacer account kindly look up these 2 cases
find out what all the PTAB actually has done, new evidence, a schedule, was wondering what has been going on with these 2 cases from time CAFC remand to now in the PTAB.
Thanks if anybody is willing to help.
Man...very difficult to assess.
So many possibilities but the very earliest
Based on this- PTAB rules RPI in our favor based on existing information.
3 months would be the fastest that could happen in my opinion. SO that would put the decision in by years end. That is 1 month for teleconferences meetings and such, no new evidence is submitted, they rule on CE
and the RPI issue the simply say the existing contract is enough now because CAFC guidance giving 2 months to work through all of that and render a VERY quick decision.
Then it it would be at least a month if not 2 to allow for Bungie to work through it all and decide if they want to appeal to CAFC.
For WDDD to get their ducks in a row as well and start the trip to Casper's Court. SO February in my honest opinion is the earliest we start that process. She should fast track it, so earliest court dates would be April to July. No idea what her schedule is, haven't looked at her docket.
Just so many variables I wouldn't even say I am that in confident in best case scenario without a settlement from Bungie timeline.
IF Bungie settles right now in Oct. very best case scenario We could start the process of District Court before years end.
It is really hard to predict the District court process. Calendar issues, docket issues, ATVI will try to stall, lawyers unenviable, and every other trick they can. Casper shouldn't allow it, but never really know how that will go down...stuff like Whitey BUlger trial happens, things go long, I am no lawyer, might ask some lawyers on their ideas on how long from a win to actually getting into court to argue the case.The timeline becomes irrelevant to me then as heading to district court is where the money is to be made and then again after settlement or a win and other infringers are pursued
as I have stated many times...I will be in during the trip t District Court as that is where the most money will be made on this. There for the settlement which ATVI most likely will have to do, they do not want to actually go to court on this..WDDD has them in a tough spot..very tough
Lots do seem to think it will be a vacate.
A lot seem to think it will be a quick turn around on decision.
I am not one of either of those people. I think it will end up back in CAFC again. Then we get the RPI ruling it should have, but that is based on the current information. New evidence could easily change my assessments.
BUt right now no new info is available.
That could happen, a settlement causing a halt. Again I don't see that happening anytime soon. I might be in the minority on all of these points
but I trust my own judgement. As should we all.
PTAB GUidelines on a remand from CAFC
Other cases that have been remanded and vacated and their timelines
These are the things I am weighting heavily. These are things that can be quantified. I simply can't imagine BUngie just caving in and going away
BEFORE any new evidence is due, and right now...none is due.
BUt yeah I am watching...decent volume for a day or two,
but the sells outweighed the buys during that time.
Price went up, lots of people are scooping up any and all large blocks
very little are out there to get.
I appreciate the thoughts and as you can tell I am still here looking
searching and finding out new info all the time.
I am not going anywhere as as I have said all along
WDDD if/when gets to district court, has ATVI dead to rights.
My goal is to be back in BEFORE they head back to district court
as that road is the road to dollars, not before.
I do reccomend if you actually care about the timeline.
Many of you don't I know.
But go see for yourself how long a vacate and remand actually takes.
All you have to do is go find some cases that have been remanded and vacated, see when those decisions came down, and then find out when the PTAB came back with a decision.
There could be a settlement before the PTAB gives out its decision.
COULD be, not WILL be.
SO not exact science, just talking about building out a realistic
timeline based on odds and probabilities.
Oh I am watching closely...
I know what my timeline is, but obviously that is not exactly set in stone.
All kinds of things COULD happen here. SO it is a small game of chicken going on that could alter my timeline math.
I can't do anything here right now if I wanted to being as I am over allocated elsewhere on a Canada Pot Stock that is up listing to NYSE next week.https://seekingalpha.com/article/4210758-aurora-cannabis-files-nyse-listing-next
MOving from OTC to NYSE where CGC, TLRY, and CRON are and those guys are WAY OVERVALUED. Hopefully that happens to my stock, and I can trim off some profits for some other smaller options like this. Same company in talk with coca cola for CBD drinks, and full legal sales go on in Canada Oct 17th. Could easily double or triple with very little risk before end of year.
SO yeah I am talking timelines because I play with a lot of catalysts in my spec plays. Unless something major happens here WDDD will not double or triple before end of the year. SO time I HOPE in my honest opinion, to make cash there, bring it back here before it starts moving way up.
I simply think there is time, and will pay a little more if not, but doubt i will pay double or triple, still can buy shares here right now for less than what I sold most of mine at.
Anybody see what happened with these cases yet?
They are in the remand and vacate boat at PTAB as well back in Feb and March-
6 months ago...
Nestle USA, Inc. v. Steuben Foods, Inc.,
http://www.cafc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/opinions-orders/17-1290.Opinion.3-9-2018.1.PDF
Maxlinear, Inc V. CF Crespe LLC
http://www.cafc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/opinions-orders/17-1039.Opinion.1-23-2018.1.PDF
And this one I haven't read through yet, but will
http://www.cafcblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/15-1116.Opinion.3-21-2016.1.pdf
Something to watch as well
I see you got filled.
AON on stocs with this low of volume
are hard to fill. Often times you can snag a bunch of shares
in smaller blocks and hope your whole order gets filled that day
to avoid multiple trade charges, or just set to end of day trade.
Glad you got what you wanted at the price you wanted.
Lots to love about WDDD over the long run.
Just waiting and watching...especially with the market where it is
too many other things on sale right now for me to tie up a bunch of capital in the waiting game here with the hopes of news or random higher volume days to happen.
Someone looked like they
were getting out and people gobbled up those shares.
Right now looks like nobody at all wants to sell.
If you want to buy, especially an AON order
going to have to raise the price if want to buy today.
If not just wait for a day with some actual volume.
Either raise the price or take off AON.
See if it can get filled a little a time throughout the day
I know Etrade and would assume most others
treat it as 1 order on everything that would get traded that day.
So if gets filled piecemeal, not multiple fees on the trade.
ZERO volume as of now.
Haven't been watching the actual trading patterns very closely
since the volume fell off
Bungie sure couldn't find much.
They got a pretty big budget and some good lawyers.
Worlds patents ended up with a positive markman, survived a PTAB
death squad IPR, and could possibly get back the lost claims in that
IPR with a proper RPI ruling.
Concerns are not about the patents here,
WDDD is rock solid on that...
concerns are over the court system for me involving CAFC and PTAB,
mostly PTAB being as the Judges on panel in CAFC should be the same Judges
and those 3 are fair.
There is no rhyme or reason to trading WDDD right now.
Goes up or down on a whim of retail sales and MMs.
Will continue till some news or dates are announced
that help create a more solid timeline or impacts the likelihood
of this case moving forward or backward.
Someone sold small shares to bring it down just as likely
to have someone buy some shares to bring it up.
Until we find some consistent volume
this is how it goes...
I'm on board...
all MMO's basically are using their patents.
When they finally get past all of the PTAB and CAFC
stuff WDDD pretty much has them dead to rights.
WITH
Willful infringement.
$$$$$$$$
It is just a matter of when they begin the journey back to
District Court. Always a small chance the courts find a way to
stop them, I highly doubt at this point with all that has gone on
they can find a way to shut it down.
But it is the IP sector, it is changing, but past experience
shows me...anything is possible.
30 days is for the the Chief Judge, Deputy Chief, or their assigned representatives to get together with panel. Should be done before then.
At the same time the parties bungie and WDDD should have scheduled a teleconference as well.
Depending on what happens during all of that, will determine the schedule moving forward as that is part of the teleconference.
There will be new evidence allowed- IE discovery. In my honest opinion.
Which means time must be allowed for that. Anybody thinking you get a decision before the end of the year, good luck on that.
I would like to think it gets resolved within 6 months, but I am betting this will be longer than 6 months. So anything before March is possible, but improbable. March would be the 6 months guidelines, and if they do additional discovery, means possible new briefs, and possible new orals though the need for a new oral argument is improbable. Just possible.
So expect a decision in March and if that doesn't happen, then your guess is as good as anyone as the guidelines simply allow for longer, but does not cap it. Past cases on remand have gone over 11 months.
Hope all of you who think this will somehow be a real fast and easy remand are right, but I bet against that happening. Timeline is one of the most important aspects of this case to me.
There is a reason Data said their crystal ball wasn't working.
There is no easy answer, just a lot of what ifs.
This was remanded for lack of discovery though, one of the main reasons, so I would bank on their being new evidence allowed.
WHich means more time, not less.
The easy answer is then....nobody knows...
all depends on what happens in the teleconference.
read my last post. That is where the rest will get decided, and I would imagine if any of the stuff discussed- new evidence, new briefings, possible time schedules...all of that will be discussed in teleconference.
If and when dates pop up..that would usually be found on PACER website
Within 30 days of the ruling the Chief judge & Deputy Chief, or somebody they assign in lieu of them get together with the panel assigned.
For the parties involved, BUngie and WDDD
Parties in remanded trial cases are to contact the Board within ten (10)
business days after the mandate issues to arrange a teleconference with the panel.
Before the teleconference, the Parties shall meet and confer in a reasonable and
good faith attempt to propose a procedure on remand. Parties are encouraged to
seek agreement, if possible, on remand procedures including, but not limited to:
(1) whether additional briefing is necessary; (2) subject matter limitations on
briefing; (3) length of briefing; (4) whether the parties should file briefs
concurrently or sequentially; (5) if briefs are filed sequentially, which party should
open the briefing; (6) whether a second brief from either party should be permitted;
(7) the briefing schedule; (8) whether either party should be permitted to
supplement the evidentiary record; (9) limitations, if any, on the type of additional
evidence that will be submitted; (10) the schedule for submitting additional
evidence, if any; and (11) any other relevant procedural issues. Teleconferences
with the panel should take place within the first month after the mandate.
I highly reccomend you actually reading the guidleines for a remand from the CAFC. A posting is not expected within 30 days. That 30 days is explained below or the entire thing can be found at
https://www.uspto.gov/sites/default/files/documents/sop_9_%20procedure_for_decisions_remanded_from_the_federal_circuit.pdf
The Chief Administrative Patent Judge (Chief Judge) and the Deputy Chief
Administrative Patent Judge (Deputy Chief Judge) believe that identifying and
discussing potential issues soon after the Federal Circuit’s opinion will facilitate
timely issuance of decisions on remand. Thus, the Chief Judge and/or the Deputy
Chief Judge will discuss each remanded case with the panel before the issuance of
the mandate, and before the panel expends substantial effort on the case. The
Chief Judge and Deputy Chief Judge request that the panel schedule a meeting
within thirty days of receiving notice of the Federal Circuit’s decision.1
The panel may arrange for the meeting by contacting the Chief Judge’s or Deputy Chief
Judge’s administrative assistant.
The Chief Judge and/or Deputy Chief Judge may assign delegate(s) to meet
with the panel in lieu of, or in addition to, the Chief Judge and Deputy Chief Judge.
The Chief Judge may also elect to expand the panel assigned to the remanded case
in accordance with SOP 1. The Chief Judge, however, expects panel expansion to
be a rare occurrence.
Panels should be prepared to discuss the issues presented by the Federal
Circuit’s decision, as well as the expected procedure for preparing a remand
decision. Specific guidance for panels regarding preparing for remand meetings
can be found in Appendix 1 to this SOP. Given the early timing of the meeting in
the remand process, the meeting is not intended to address the likely substantive
outcome.
The parties should expect the remand process to vary somewhat depending
on the type of case and the issues presented. Appendix 2 to this SOP provides
guidance to parties on remand procedures, plus illustrative examples from recent
cases. Notably, certain scenarios may necessitate an extension of the six-month
goal for issuing a remand decision.
1
Please note that this meeting is expected to occur before the mandate issues from
the Federal Circuit. Under Rule 41(b) of the Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure,
a mandate “must issue 7 days after the time to file a petition for rehearing expires,
or 7 days after entry of an order denying a timely petition for panel rehearing,
petition for rehearing en banc, or motion for stay of mandate, whichever is
later.” Because there is a 30-day period under Fed. Cir. R. 40(e) for filing a
rehearing petition, the mandate usually issues 37 days after judgment if no party
seeks rehearing or a stay of the mandate. However, in cases in which the Director
Slightly higher sells than buys.
It did break .30 today...short lived, but did hit .31
just a matter if if it can sustain it during the wait.
30 days coming up fast....
Been a good few days for WDDD shares
Not me..been there all week though.
You are correct I do assume that there will be discovery.
As I think that is the biggest reason this was remanded.
We shall see of course as to what actually happens.
Always good to get your take on things.
Just seeing if you might have a window of expected time frame is all.
Yes I would love to hear your estimates on a time frame.
Considering it will all be done by the book,
with proper discovery and time for that
and everything needing to be well articulated and thought through
backed up with reasoning. WOuld you care to offer an estimate on the window of time you think it will take to get a PTAB decision?
If WDDD wins an RPI- do you think Bungie will appeal to the CAFC?
If WDDD loses on the RPI do you think WDDD will appeal to the CAFC?
If so how long would you expect the process of appeal to the CAFC be?
WOuld you expect the timeline on that process to be about the same as the usual time frame for CAFC appeals? That would be in addition to the time for the PTAB decision is appealed.
I get hammered on my timeline talk. So I would love to have your estimates
knowing you are already spelling it out in a well articulated fashion
in regards to the process and how it will be handled.
Yes the PTAB has issued guidelines on this.
https://www.uspto.gov/sites/default/files/documents/sop_9_%20procedure_for_decisions_remanded_from_the_federal_circuit.pdf
Nobody wants to believe me when I tell them right out of the guidelines
issued by the PTAB how long it will take.
They get what they think should happen and how quick it should happen confused with what will actually happen and how long that takes.
There will be discovery involved unless the PTAB ignores the CAFC all
together. Discovery takes time. Request info, getting info, reviewing info,write briefs on info, Bungie to respond,
Possible oral arguments again, more than likely briefs to be filed.
Then after all that the actual decision. This is under a remand for lack of discovery. No way they rush through that knowing the CAFC is looking and waiting.
I think the general consensus from the "experts"
is that is has little to no chance of succeeding.
As you know I tend to overestimate the bad things
while most underestimate them.
I say it is the PTAB and I wouldn't put it past them to
do something they shouldn't. Sure the PTAB appears to be changing for the better in regards to patent owners, but the PTAB I would wager stills views WDDD as an NPE and they are not kind to NPEs. We can debate all day about if they are an NPE or they are not, but it is not what we think but what the PTAB thinks on that matter which is important.
Like I have said many times. I am out till 1 of 3 things.
1. Price target comes into my zone and it is simply too cheap to pass up.
2. New evidence is brought to light that really convinces me the PTAB will rule in favor of WDDD on RPI issue.
3. PTAB ruling.
Till then I watch as we wait for news and the price simply stays around where it is while I make money elsewhere and eventually buy back in
IMHO at a lower price than I sold my shares.
Think about this....food for thought 195k in sales yesterday. That is almost 1 million shares pre RS. Let that sink in. The PPS held up rather well for that though. We shall see what happens as the timeline drags on. It is going on a month, getting pretty close. Those of you who still think this is going to be finished up in a month or two
how confident of that are you now?
My call on timeline- doesn't need any readjusting yet.
195k in sales
15k in buys.
But that last really small buy of 100 shares for $26.00 after all the sells.
Not what I would call moving up, but it did move up on that 100 shares at .26.
Or someone was looking to unload some shares?
15,700 in buys
155,900 in sells.
A big block set up at .22 if anybody is trying to sell
that is the backstop at the moment.
And I would bet the person buying would love to get those
shares at .22 which is 4.5 cents pre RS.
Still a great deal.
NIce buy for someone and nice exit for someone else.
That was a big block of sell without a price drop.
Good timing and hope both parties are happy with their transactions.
MOre importantly though has anybody seen anything new on the case itself from any of the parties involved?
Bungie
WDDD
PTAB
A conference call scheduled or anything at all?
Beyond the Judge change
It is not just that.
What is not being talked about is who has the capacity to
provide that much CBD?
All of those hemp acquisitions, the locations,
Coke and Pepsi are worldwide major players.
Having access to large amounts of hemp in various parts of the world
only 1 company really has that capability.
Europe- recent major hemp producer acquired
Uruguay- the home of the major bottling plant Coke bought for 250 million in July- ICC in Uruguay major hemp producer.
Sheer volume and logistics- Coke can't just pick anybody, how many
companies can fit those needs?
I'm good with everything except the CE issue.
That is a bit convoluted and not something easily understood for those who are not of a legal mind or background. The idea I understand clearly, but exactly how it applies, and why it applies. that is a point of contention.
I am not the only one. Obviously.
The only IP play I have any interest in is this one.
They created the patents, Kidrin is top notch, the magnitude
and scope of the entire industry is built upon these patents.
S&G put Tribble on the case after they did all their DD.
I took my skin out of the game. Not for ever, just for now.
The PTAB simply scares me and the time that is involved
so will wait it out and see what happens.
Good to hear from you again, hadn't seen you on the board recently.
BY no means does that explain our particular case, there is no apples
to apples comparison. I'm trying to get my mind wrapped around it still.
I don't exactly have to worry about it right now as I currently sit on the sidelines. But reading through those helped me get a little better grip on it.
Hope it helps.
A few things you might want to read in regards to CE i IPR prcoeedings.
Also dealing with remands back to the PTAB. Won't clear it up, but will give you a bit more explanation and background.
https://www.ptabtrialinsights.com/2018/02/collateral-estoppel-at-the-federal-circuit-for-inter-partes-review-proceedings/
http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2018/03/27/federal-circuitcollateral-estoppel-previously-construed-related-claim/id=95196/
https://www.finnegan.com/en/insights/blogs/federal-circuit-ip/collateral-estoppel-may-apply-if-claims-in-a-different-but-related-patent-have-been-litigated-before.html
http://www.mondaq.com/unitedstates/x/480806/Patent/Collateral+Estoppel+in+an+IPR
https://blog.wolfgreenfield.com/postgrant/ptab-left-to-mitigate-the-damage-from-collateral-estoppel
http://www.ptablitigationblog.com/stop-what-you-are-doing-collateral-estoppel-at-the-ptab/
Don''t think so. The halts and suspensions ---usually wouldn't have L2 up on them.
Bid and Ask go away.
Just no trading, been very light lately.
L2 is still stacked heavy at .22 for buying light in front
.24 has 25k sitting there as people trying to sell.
But nobody is budging, nobody willing to pay a little more
or take a little less.
And I don't blame them....
Not this, as it was the CAFC breakdown, but will keep looking.
but might jog your memory as well.
http://www.bilskiblog.com/blog/2017/06/alicestorm-april-update-and-the-impact-of-tc-heartland.html
Which is a really good sign.
Many signs things are changing for the better
at the PTAB, but even if somehow they don't do the right thing
having the same CFAC Judges is really good.
If it does somehow end up back there,
then WDDD is Golden. Those 3 Judges will have everything they need
to go ahead and move WDDD to the money zone on the way to District Court.
Really looking forward to seeing what new evidence
will be brought to light.
Most up to date PTAB stats.
https://www.uspto.gov/sites/default/files/documents/trial_statistics_20180731.pdf
https://www.uspto.gov/patents-application-process/appealing-patent-decisions/statistics/aia-trial-statistics
More rosy info on PTAB- https://bannerwitcoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/In-Inter-Partes-Review-Meet-the-Standards-of-the-Few-or-Risk-Your-Petition.pdf
If you find it again, please repost.
I would love to look that over again.