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"But.......! What goes around comes around, and oh will it ever!"
Tom, Can you elaborate on that a little more for us? Thanks
Closed the day at .14 and volume 533,813, not bad. Lets hope the trend continues.
Doc II thanks for the response and yes I agree with you. I have just not seen the 10 year supply contract mentioned anywhere recently. With Phoenix part of a recent merger involving the familiar 110 million number (coincidence?) was just wondering if they still had a supply contract and planned source of coal for the plant(s)?
Plant Cost - I have seen numbers that range from 300-400 million per plant. In Maland’s pitch in June he discussed the advantages of a smaller local serving plants as these ones are and how much would be saved by duplicating the same design over and over. The question I have here is do they mean the first plant alone will cost 300-400 or after they have built 6 the average cost per unit will be 300-400. A very big difference as the first will obviously be significantly more expensive than the followons. 400 million is certainly a monumental amount of money to have committed regardless of the source but hopefully a little more attainable than the 7 Billion dollar numbers I have seen thrown around for some of those other larger plants.
CO2 - I have posted questions on this before but I would like to bring it up again as it is important. The CO2 factor with CTL is a big deal and the primary ammunition for the criticizers of CTL. There are all kinds of studies going on and money being spent about sequestering CO2 in underground caverns and other related methods to deal with CO2 emissions. FFI has made strong statements concerning their plant and CO2. In Maland’s June pitch he stated they would inject the CO2 back into the process to create more diesel and then went on to say how every other byproduct of the plant had a commercial use and would be recycled. As recently as May 2008 Jack Young was quoted as saying “"There is no problem in the emissions from this plant," he said. "This is going to be cleaner than ... a 7-11 store."” IMO they are making very strong statements concerning their CO2 process. I also keep reading how people are focused on the fact the company has no relevant patents for the path forward they have chosen. Just because something is not patented it should not be assumed that there are not potential trade secrets or proprietary information involved. Coco Cola doesn’t have a patent on their formula because than they would need to disclose it for filing. Perhaps a similar situations exist? On the other hand if FFI did hold something that good I would think they would be making a bigger deal about, not necessarily the details but just that they had.
The thing I keep asking and why I continue to accumulate instead of selling this stock is what do they have that put them on the map. They are a small company with an army of consultants that have never produced any marketable item to date, have a list of unfulfilled PRs and burning through money like there is no tomorrow. Why have local governments pledged to provide grant money, why are they on current US Department of Energy laboratory (NETL) charts. Why have other companies made attempts for purchase, granted a failed attempt but I do not believe it was a scam. I have dumped stock on companies appearing far better than this one but this one has just too many things that do not make sense at this time.
One last thing, that just bugs me is that website. They have got to do something with that god awful website that has not been touched in nearly 5 years. UPDATE IT! Pay a college student $500 to work on it for a week to update and fix it and they will have something 100 times better than they have now. The biggest PR and the first place people go when they want to learn something about the company is the website. No wonder they cant attract any new investors and the ones they do have like us sit around guessing about what’s going on. These days a 10 year old can do web page design; it doesn’t take much or much money or much upkeep. It means a lot more than they obviously realize.
What started as a few questions turned into more than I intended sorry for the blabbering and thanks for listening. Just a few points to discuss positives and negatives on
Doc, Yes definitely good to see the NETL information being used in another brief like that.
Phoenix Coal question - In Maland's pitch he gave to the KY legislature back in June he stated that they have a 10 year coal supply contract with Phoenix Coal. Are these supply contracts still in place and valid considering the recent Phoenix Coal merger? Which also involved a curiously familiar sum of money I might add. Always more questions then answers.
It is encouraging that The National Energy Technology Laboratory (NETL) which is part of The U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) listed Fuel Frontiers Inc/Westinghouse SS&W, Muhlenberg Co. KY as one of 16 U.S. CTL Plant Projections in a pitch given at the FLC Midwest Regional Conference on 12-14 August 2008. Certainly doesn’t guarantee viability of the project long term but was still good to see it on charts that were pitched in a federal arena so recently.
Slide 10
http://www.flcmidwest.org/2008regionalmeeting/Headley.pdf
Walker,
I was curious why he had been asked to be silent and why he had dropped off the board for so long as I had liked reading his posts.
Casso on the yahoo board made several attacks on him concerning "the boys of houston" I was curious why he continued making these references or if it was just Casso throwing out baseless banter.
July 31, 2008 9:30:08 PM
"I have been asked to stay quiet while this whole drama has unfolded...and in this charade I find myself to be a heavy casualty.."
yahoo board 7-Jul-08 12:53 pm and 30-Jun-08 11:30 am and plenty of others.
Doc, All the continued restating of negative that was happening concerning that was getting ridiculous. The company has certainly had its share of failed starts and PRs that did not pan out which is obvious. Hopefully we can all try and state the positives and negatives in constructive ways and try to exchange DD and ideas on potentially viable paths forward for the company. I do not believe this company to be a scam as others have stated and through DD and listening/deciphering closely IMO there are still potentially ways the company can reach its goals.
I do have a question, why were you asked to disappear and become silent for so long? And as Casso would put it can you explain more about your relation or contact with “the boys from Houston”? Or was that all fabricated by him? Much of his information appears fractured and demented but often does have some foundation to it.
Anyway I hope all is well and we can discuss more in the future.
and deciphering. Ok Doc, Christine, Multiple websites down, A2Es what is brewing??
Plans for Diesel Fuel Operation in Western Kentucky on Track; New President Named for Local Venture
Tuesday, July 29, 2008
http://mfrtech.com/articles/1041.html
Glad they are trying to get a little information out there but the part I did not like is the "Construction should start in the third quarter of next year." statement.
Walker one of my previous posts around that time period has a link to the video where Marland is speaking to the Kentucky Legislature. He seemed to be very knowledgeable and competent but not as good of a presenter IMO. When I first saw this several weeks ago I was surprised Jack was not giving the pitch for as much as they have riding on this but perhaps it makes a little more sense now.
"Industries moving to Greenville: 2 firms could end up providing 500 jobs"
"along with the potential of the coal-to-diesel facility"
At least they are still talking locally about the plant in Muhlenberg.
http://www.individual.com/story.php?story=85003131
You are correct Walker I misread the post my error.
Walker I do not know all the facts on that but someone on the Yahoo board claimed the Message Inquirer ran an article that similar was being worked for KYA/FFI. You need a login to get to the article so I could not verify it.
free spirit I also believe in looking for the silver lining as long as there is foundation for it. Initial silence shouldn’t necessarily be construed, as a negative however over time it understandably will be. People will begin guessing at what’s going on and the laundry list of past failures will continually be thrown around for lack of any better information. Without disclosing too much of their business strategy this company could provide some insight as to their current status on major projects. I fault them heavily for not doing this. New companies often have many failed attempts before getting it right but how they handle and communicate failure or success can make all the difference.
When you say "the time is right” I could not agree more as the CIBC World Markets report that came out a few days ago states gas prices will approach $7 a gallon by the summer of 2010, the same year oil prices will likely reach $200 per barrel. Governments are scrambling to find alternative fuels that are practical in the near term. When we start considering these prices, the government is going to be throwing money at companies to have CTL plants built CO2 or not IMO. Having a zero emissions CO2 process is all the better though. Considering all this and the local money that has already been pledged I would hope the KY grant money would not be that big of a hurdle unless there is something seriously wrong. I have been and will continue to be very patient, realistic and maybe even a little optimistic about all this but if they fail to receive the token KY grant money and do not give any viable path forward Ill be parking the dump truck next to DBs and others. I do believe there is strong potential here if they can just get it off the ground.
New to the board yes new to the stock no and awakening to nothing.
free spirit this sounds like a very grand plan and I would hope this company is a part if not the center of all this. I have been supportive of this company’s ideas and try to keep a very factual and realistic view of the events. However even I am starting to waiver and wonder of its sustainability and plan. I do appreciate your opinion but I have seen the words "very soon" too often and my view of all this is unfortunately diminishing.
free spirit any idea when we will hear anything more on this "zero C02 emissions" ?
I agree Walker. The local and state support for this seems to be continuing no negative press concerning this that I have found. Although Coal to Fuel in general nationally has taken some hits Kentucky support has not wavered. Due to their coal reserves I’m sure but no matter the reason. I don’t think they would have received the local money with out a strong potential for receiving the rest. The local people in the press articles and news clips really do want this plant and a lot more than new curtains in the court house I’m sure. Certainly anything can happen. IMO it just seems the chances are strong that they will get it unless the company blatantly messes something up in the process. Good weekend to all.
Agree The KY grant has a lot riding on it IMO. Its not the token amount its more the endorsement of KY saying continue and the potential future funding, support and recognition that goes with it. More potential for them to go it alone and a more creditable view by other potential partners. Though I would like to see them continue this on their own IF there is some substantial technical advantage that would set them apart that can be gained by partnering vs buyout as someone had mentioned before then in the long run that would be a better choice IMO. What do you mean by where you place your bets?
cqrtdoc I listen to words closely as well and though I don’t agree with the tone you come across with sometimes (no offense intended) I do agree with many of your business views. You make logical supportable arguments.
At this point if the 2.5 mil grant was awarded to NSOL and IA all of a sudden came over the hill waving the golden torches will the buyout be so openly accepted? Originally I was thinking yes but now... with a grant like that as endorsement by the state they can probably get whatever funding they need and go it alone torches or not. Should be interesting how this pans out. A good weekend to all.
free spirt Yes I do agree with you if there is a substantial technical advantage that would set this process apart from the others it would make a great deal of difference IMO. Thank you for the information I do appreciate and respect your views on this.
free spirit thanks for providing us some of the technical details on the Co2 which I have been trying to understand the facts on for awhile. It has helped but has also confused me more on a few things. In the Kentucky Legislature video from 13 June the KFA/FFI rep discussed how all the by products from the coal to diesel plant were being recycled. On the Co2 he said how it was being feed back into the process to create diesel. When you say "If they had the technology" do you mean that KFA/FFI/WPC/Shaw Stone&Webster can still do this but at a lower efficiency and higher cost or that they do not have the technical ability to do this at present without this AC torch technology you are talking about? In a 17 May news story by WKYT Jack Young, president of Fuel Frontiers was quoted as saying "There is no problem in the emissions from this plant," he said. "This is going to be cleaner than ... a 7-11 store." http://www.wkyt.com/news/headlines/19041854.html
KYA/FFI are making statements on the emissions of these plants but I have not seen any other companies mentioned as part of this and it appears that they are doing this on their own.
After reading your info below I then came across a very similar article FCE has splattered across the Internet bragging about these crazy torches.
http://wastenews.texterity.com/wastenews/20071015/?pg=28
So to try and put this simply just so I can grasp this for 5 minutes before someone throws some other variable in. KYA/FFI have all the legwork on the coal to diesel plants with the KY governments so far and have standard issue torches, IA/FCE have the golden ruby tipped torches for enhanced efficiency, and so together you potentially have superior process and plants lined up? Do I have the facts somewhat correct here or am I in left field? I try hard to only put the basic facts and questions down the best I can after scouring the Internet and these boards. I apologize if I have put anything down inaccurate.
I have never sold a share of this stock and intend to stand by it. Would be good though if the companies just let everyone know the basics on where they are and what’s going on periodically. Anyway appreciate your posts and thanks for listening.
What caught my attention was when the KFA/FFI rep said that they intended to inject the plant Co2 back into the process to create Diesel. From what I have read about other companies most were talking about capturing and sequestering Co2 in underground caverns or something like that.
Nukem thanks for posting the additional background on the video I appreciate it, at 3am I just kind of threw it up there not very well. I don't post much but research a good bit and try to post what I hope are factual items that folks might want to see.
It was good to view and get more detail on their overall plan. I never understood how they planned to near eliminate the plant Co2 emissions but he gave a description of it. They do seem to be designing the plant to be as green as possible with a plan for reuse of slag, sulfur, nitrogen and all byproducts of the plant. Local coal used and Diesel sold locally to keep cost and Co2 emissions from trucks and tankers to a minimum. They have also signed a 10 year supply contract with Phoenix Coal.
Not to sound overly optimistic because certainly a lot could go wrong to derail this but they do seem to have a good plan and appear to have done their homework. Still remains to be seen if they can pull it all together and get it financed.
The only negatives I came away from this with were that my impression before was that plant engineering and design was a little farther along than what the KFA guy alluded to. Also their PR/marketing areas obviously need help. The clip is public record on the internet would think they would want folks to know this instead of it just being dropped on this board. Something like this has far more creditability and meaning than a Bull Report or to me it does anyway. Maybe they are just keeping resources focused on making this work until they have substantial news, who knows.
forward to about halfway through as nukem said.
http://www.ket.org/cgi-bin/cheetah/watch_video.pl?preference=wmv&nola=WLEGP%20008006&altdir=&template=
KFA/FFI Video at Kentucky Legislature.
http://www.ket.org/cgi-bin/cheetah/watch_video.pl?preference=wmv&nola=WLEGP%20008006&altdir=&template=
KFA on Kentucky Legislature calendar 11 June 2008 to discuss announcement for a Coal to diesel plant in Muhlenberg County, Kentucky. Looks like access to meeting minutes must lag back a few days, curious what the discussions were.
http://www.lrc.ky.gov/legislative_calendar/index.aspx
http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Committee/interim%20joint/Ag&NR/home.htm
Wednesday, June 11, 2008
1:00pm, Annex Room 149
INTERIM JOINT COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE AND NATURAL RESOURCES
Agenda: Discussion of recent spikes in gasoline and diesel prices by Rodney Andrews, Center for Applied Energy Research, University of Kentucky; Policy alternatives by Dr. Leonard Peters, Governor's Office of Energy Policy; Representatives from Kentucky Fuel Associates to discuss announcement for a Coal to diesel plant in Muhlenberg County, Kentucky; Representatives from Kentucky Department of Agriculture to discuss half-pricing of gasoline and diesel.
Members: Sen. Tom Jensen (Co-Chair), Rep. Jim Gooch (Co-Chair), Rep. Tom McKee (Co-Chair), Sen. David E. Boswell, Sen. Ernie Harris, Sen. Dan Kelly, Sen. Bob Leeper, Sen. Vernie McGaha, Sen. Joey Pendleton, Sen. Dorsey Ridley, Sen. Richie Sanders, Sen. Ernesto Scorsone, Sen. Brandon Smith, Sen. Damon Thayer, Rep. Royce W. Adams, Rep. Scott Alexander, Rep. John A. Arnold, Rep. Johnny Bell, Rep. Dwight D. Butler, Rep. Mike Cherry, Rep. Hubert Collins, Rep. James R. Comer, Rep. Tim Couch, Rep. Milward Dedman, Rep. Mike Denham, Rep. C. B. Embry, Rep. Jeff Greer, Rep. Keith Hall, Rep. Richard Henderson, Rep. Jimmy Higdon, Rep. Charlie Hoffman, Rep. Reginald Meeks, Rep. Brad Montell, Rep. Tim Moore, Rep. Fred Nesler, Rep. David Osborne, Rep. Sannie Overly, Rep. Don Pasley, Rep. Tanya Pullin, Rep. Marie Rader, Rep. Rick Rand, Rep. Tom Riner, Rep. Steven Rudy, Rep. Dottie Sims, Rep. Jim Stewart, Rep. Greg Stumbo, Rep. Tommy Turner, Rep. Ken Upchurch, Rep. Robin L. Webb, Rep. Susan Westrom
IA website has been updated with Nuclear Solutions in release section. States the 21 May release.
http://www.interamericasinc.com/
Senator McConnell defends Kentucky Coal and coal-to-liquid technology when he led the fight aginst the climate bill last week as stated in this 6 June 2008 article. The state and local government seem to be maintaining their support for coal-to-liquid technology.
"Greater use of coal-to-liquid fuel technology would take full advantage of this natural resource, which Kentucky has in abundance, while also benefiting our environment by reducing emissions of sulfur dioxide, nitrous oxide and other pollutants as compared to using conventional fuels," McConnell wrote in an April 30 column. "We have enough coal in America to supply our nation for more than 250 years. What Saudi Arabia is to oil, America is to coal."
Full Article: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/260/story/40160.html
NBC Channel 14 Tri-State News Had Fuel Frontiers Story A Few Days Ago. Hi gang I am new to this board but have been interested in this stock for a while. I figure most people already saw some of the story’s below so I apologize for posting any of them again if they are already here somewhere. I guess my question/confusion is when will stories and reports like these coming out start igniting the stock more? There seems to be a lot of local interest in the project and has local media reporting on it. The NBC 14 interview with Brent Yonts and videos of the area had the reporter calling out Fuel Frontiers by name and very positive on the whole project. Share price seems way low on this just thought people would be jumping on it with some of this type of news? Probably just a lot I don’t know on the history of it all. Anyway thanks for listening, it all looks pretty good from this point of view.
http://www.wbko.com/home/headlines/18917234.html
http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/19041854.html
http://www.14wfie.com/Global/story.asp?S=8318587
http://www.14wfie.com/global/video/flash/popupplayer.asp?ClipID1=2483700&h1=Coal-to-fuel%20may%20bring%20jobs%20to%20Muhlenberg%20Co.&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=87833&LaunchPageAdTag=News&activePane=info&rnd=80752822
http://www.kentucky.com/471/story/407781.html
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:SLN7BoHsDCwJ:www.westinghouse-plasma.com/projects/projects_under_development.php+Gasification+Muhlenberg&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us